Trying to find some understanding and peace | Jeb Kinnison Attachment Type Forum

Betty
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Posts: 36

Trying to find some understanding and peace Apr 14, 2017 11:40:42 GMT via mobile

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Post by Betty on Apr 14, 2017 11:40:42 GMT

Hi there,

I am new to this site and this thread. Just looking for some understanding and clarity, as I'm confused and really devastated.

I think my boyfriend (now ex as of this week) is either a dismissive avoidant, or fearful avoidant.
I am not really sure of the difference, as I am still learning. I am an anxious.

Him and I met 2 years ago, at a personal growth seminar. He was handsome, his smile infectious, and his energy electric. We were both drawn to each other immediately. We made each other laugh, we spent a lot of time together, we enjoyed the same things and enjoyed being together. It was clear that we were connected and fast. He was very open with me. The last man I had been seeing was a commitment phobe. This guy wasn't like that, he was affectionate,loving, kind. Man could he make me laugh. A couple months after meeting we took a trip to New York and had an amazing time.

It seemed like he was my soul mate. Or at least that's how I looked at things back then. I feel my view of love and relationships have turned more realistic since then.

Anyways, he seemed like a very consious man, and his willingness to grow and learn really inspired and attracted me.

We started having problems, you know regular couples fights, that I thought was normal. Those fights took on a whole entity within itself, and fast. What was one disagreement took over the relationship. He started shutting down on me. Since I am an anxious preoccupied (and I know this, and am currently seeking council) I thought the way to get him to be open with me was to push and push him to talk. The more I did that, the less he seemed interested in me. Despite our problems, and problems that had now arose in the bedroom (he did not want to sleep with me, had impotencey, I blamed myself of course) we decided to pack up our stuff togetehr and move across the country and start a new life together.

At the time I felt like everything was going to work out because there was this love there, this big big love.

So we moved and the problems just mounted from there. He started to avoid spending time with me, and the more and more he did, the more Angrier, Lonleier, and more depressed I became. Resentment was taking over, as I felt he didn't want to be around me and I was very hurt.

I didn't realize he was hurt also.
We went to see a therapist to talk about our problems. I learned that not only was he withdrawing and hiding thibgs from me, but he was abused as a child, and in turn abused another child himself.

Confused and upset about his lack of transparency, I thought he was hiding those things because he was angry with me.
I had no idea how to help him or even where to begin with knowing what he went through or what he still goes through.

We stayed in the relationship until Christmas last year, where things exploded. He hit his breaking point and he left me. I was devestaed. Not just by his leaving, but by how cruel he was. He refused to speak to me, which peaked my anxiety even more. I wanted to just talk to him, so I kept pushing and pushing.

We didn't speak for 3 weeks, until I wrote him a letter. He responded that he wanted to try things with me again.

I don't think we had enough time away from each other, or enough healing done. He has Alot of anger and resentment from what happened, and he keeps going from wanting to connect with me, to disconnect.

I'm not sure if he even sees it or understands it. I see him get so frustrated with me when I ask him questions that he doesn't want to answer too.

When he said "try again", I don't think he meant he was all in. I think he meant to see if I could be safe with him. I couldnt because I couldn't understand why he wpuld shut me out and I would try to hammer my way back in. Hammer my way through the walls.

He ended things again this week and the pattern repeated, of us getting into a fight and him repeatedly trying to get me to leave him alone by saying hurtful things, and me lashing back.

This whole situation just breaks my heart. I feel I have no control at all, no control over myself and no control over the situation.

I will also mention that since we broke up, we r have both stayed in the city we moved too. It's been hard since neither one of us has stable work and are living in non permanent homes separately.

I am planning to move home this weekend and he is planning to move home next month.

Any kind of advice or insight or anything that anybody could lend me would be great. I truly love this man and see that he makes an effort, but as soon as he is pushed he clams up and won't talk to me for weeks. It makes me feel very isolated and alone, as my anxiety over it just spirals put of control.

He has shut me out and I'm not sure what to do

Thanks
Becky

xyphosuran
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Posts: 12

Trying to find some understanding and peace Apr 14, 2017 18:31:10 GMT via mobile

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Post by xyphosuran on Apr 14, 2017 18:31:10 GMT

Becky, first I want to say that so much of the dynamic and what you said I can completely relate to as I was in a 3 year relationship with a dismissive avoidant and I am anxious preoccupied. I actually had him take the test during year 2 and those were his results. However I only am able to comment on the attachment aspect of your post as I know little about the effects of sexual abuse and hope someone who does can also chime in.
My ex too would constantly come back and want to try again. We broke up 3 times and this last time I refused to get back together but 1 1/2 years later he still contacts me every month. Your ex and mine get close and their subconscious alarm bells go off and so they do a variety of things to feel safe again which means pushing the supposed threat away, us. But then when weeks go by they are able to get in touch with their honest feelings of attachment and remember the great things about you. However often their return isn't accompanied by having found a counselor. I can tell you and I are open to counseling and trying to grow just by the fact you have sought council and are posting here yet we know how hard it is for us to change and become a secure attachment type so now imagine someone who doesn't really think they have an attachment issue. My ex still hasn't sought counseling. So when we got back together each time I felt elation and a high of oxytocin then after a month or two the cycle would begin again like you said with just normal fights. But they weren't ever resolved fully because that would bring closeness and also while the fights appeared to be about stupid stuff, as he put it, they were really about negotiating closeness with him wanting distance and me wanting to be close. So they never truly get resolved their is just this build up of fights. To be able to break out of this heartbreaking cycle I had to move in with my brother who I am close to and his girlfriend. They gave me the strength to be able to build a life away from him along with a very good counselor and tons of attachment reading which really opened my eyes. The reason it's so hard is because he is a good person who genuinely loved me. However that's not enough if they won't get help and if the closeness isn't consistent given my attachment type. Maybe a secure person could deal better but I just can't it causes me such mental anguish. Someone who doesn't understand attachment theory or who is avoidant will read that and think I sound dramatic. But someone who either is anxious or a counselor will read that and say yes, definitely, it's not healthy for you.
I urge you to move home soon if that's a secure loving space for you. You need support now, more than a secure needs or an avoidant would admit they need. It's not wrong or right it just is. Then find a counselor and either something a job or some type or school because being around people is good. Then know you might cry every night for a while like I did. I cried every night and Was very sad. But I promise you will get over him after tons of crying and support. I didn't believe people who said that but I promise you it's true. And yes our exes have these great sides but mine too could be mean and stonewall me just like you've described. Both of our exes can go off and get counseling and come back two years later and show us how much they've grown, I mean if that is what you need to think right now to at least stay broken up then do it. But I am betting they won't. And from what I've read attachment issues get worse as years go by and what I mean by that is that let's say we have children with these men, they'll push us away when we need them to help us with the kids etc or let's say we get health issues often avoidants just can't take the dependency which they see as needy naggyness. So this is just a taste of all to come. Once I realized that I said forget it. I thought this was just dating pains that would subside into trust etc. it's not. It's foreshadowing.

Becky*
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Trying to find some understanding and peace Apr 14, 2017 20:53:47 GMT

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Post by Becky* on Apr 14, 2017 20:53:47 GMT

Hi Xyphosuran,

Thank you so much for ur reply.
EVERYTHING you have said has hit so close. It has been without a doubt the most painful thing I have ever endured.
Can I ask u a few questions?
How long have u two been apart?

My avoidant and I split up in December, like i said a very painful and rough breakup, as he cut me out of his life. When he came back i was so happy and i feel like all of the hard work i was doing (i did 8 weeks grief councilling after the split, combined with 2 personal growth courses) would have helped me be able to understand him and myself better. I feel there was not enough time in between our first breakup and deciding to be together again, as there is still a lot of pain in between both of us. The first few weeks were great, but now i feel those things pop up, and have clouded the love we have for each other and the intimate connection that is buried so so deep now.

It seems to be that, even though he says hes done, he keeps coming back when he has taken some time apart from me. But i dont feel that time apart has been significant enough for change on either of our behalfs (mostly because hes the trigger that pulls me back into anxiety, and he comes back not knowing what he truly wants, or not doing any significant work)
Have you experienced this?

He has used the analogy in the past, that i am a sledgehammer trying to get a flower to open up. I understand what he is saying, yet i see no accountability on the other side, that his connect and disconnect nature triggers this deep seeded need in me to be seen and heard as well. I feel him coming back in Jan was selfish, he could see i was trying to better myself, but he in fact did not want to talk about his issues.

It's strange to me because he devotes his life to personal growth, and has said that he does not trust me to use his vulnerability against him (when i get so frustrated and upset that he wont open up, i lash out and say mean things. Not proud of it and its not excusable, but i feel there is resentment there for not being let in fully)

Im hoping someone on this forum can give me a look into child sexual abuse, as i dont understand the complexity of the behaviours it installs in adults and how deeply rooted it really goes. I truly believe this has ALOT to do with his avoidant nature.

You said he is still messaging you? How do u deal with that, and do u still have hope?

I know i am never going to be able to change him, i am not naive to this fact. I guess i feel like, can attachment styles be changed? Can they be morphed and worked upon? I am wanting to change my own attachment style, being anxious has caused me a lot of grief and heartache. I know that working on myself can help that.

I am very saddened to the fact that he has shut me out again. Somewhere deep down i have a feeling he will be back......

xyphosuran
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Posts: 12

Trying to find some understanding and peace Apr 16, 2017 21:11:01 GMT

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Post by xyphosuran on Apr 16, 2017 21:11:01 GMT

Apr 14, 2017 20:53:47 GMT Becky* said:

Hi Xyphosuran,

Thank you so much for ur reply.
EVERYTHING you have said has hit so close. It has been without a doubt the most painful thing I have ever endured.
Can I ask u a few questions?
How long have u two been apart?

My avoidant and I split up in December, like i said a very painful and rough breakup, as he cut me out of his life. When he came back i was so happy and i feel like all of the hard work i was doing (i did 8 weeks grief councilling after the split, combined with 2 personal growth courses) would have helped me be able to understand him and myself better. I feel there was not enough time in between our first breakup and deciding to be together again, as there is still a lot of pain in between both of us. The first few weeks were great, but now i feel those things pop up, and have clouded the love we have for each other and the intimate connection that is buried so so deep now.

It seems to be that, even though he says hes done, he keeps coming back when he has taken some time apart from me. But i dont feel that time apart has been significant enough for change on either of our behalfs (mostly because hes the trigger that pulls me back into anxiety, and he comes back not knowing what he truly wants, or not doing any significant work)
Have you experienced this?

He has used the analogy in the past, that i am a sledgehammer trying to get a flower to open up. I understand what he is saying, yet i see no accountability on the other side, that his connect and disconnect nature triggers this deep seeded need in me to be seen and heard as well. I feel him coming back in Jan was selfish, he could see i was trying to better myself, but he in fact did not want to talk about his issues.

It's strange to me because he devotes his life to personal growth, and has said that he does not trust me to use his vulnerability against him (when i get so frustrated and upset that he wont open up, i lash out and say mean things. Not proud of it and its not excusable, but i feel there is resentment there for not being let in fully)

Im hoping someone on this forum can give me a look into child sexual abuse, as i dont understand the complexity of the behaviours it installs in adults and how deeply rooted it really goes. I truly believe this has ALOT to do with his avoidant nature.

You said he is still messaging you? How do u deal with that, and do u still have hope?

I know i am never going to be able to change him, i am not naive to this fact. I guess i feel like, can attachment styles be changed? Can they be morphed and worked upon? I am wanting to change my own attachment style, being anxious has caused me a lot of grief and heartache. I know that working on myself can help that.

I am very saddened to the fact that he has shut me out again. Somewhere deep down i have a feeling he will be back......

I find this message board hard to respond inline to so I'm quoting it here. My ex and I have been broken up for 1 1/2 years. About whether I have any hope, I guess part of me doesn't care anymore. It's a complex question but basically I'm living my life with things I'm taking care of on my own and he's just kind of taking care of himself in some random state. I'm not sure if this sounds bad but I feel most secure and in control of my life when I'm not responding to him, not because I'm mad but just because I don't feel like it. So he called me a couple weeks ago and I called him back then he waited then called me back so I just am letting it go. See that dynamic was our entire relationship and it can be seen through so many interactions whether it be in person, on the phone, in email, or even text. I don't know how to explain this but there was this micro moment when I could always sense he was about to pull away. For example, my grandma died, and initially his response on the phone was secure and exactly what you'd want from someone, then inevitably a minute later he'd shift into a subtlety distant dismissing tone. Other people might miss this shift, but I knew it well. That to me is why I don't care anymore. I would get what I needed emotionally only to have it subtlety taken away only a couple of seconds later. I don't know how to explain that to someone who has never experienced it. While we were dating I'd get a day of closeness only to have him pull away the next day just by kind of going inward or not talking or getting irritated with me. To have someone who knows you better than anyone get irritated or point out your flaws is more painful because they get it right but with a coloring that is darker than someone secure. I remember I thought I'd rather not be close to him then because I don't want to give him that access to my flaws. And the flaws I'm talking about are things I know and feel very embarrassed by. For instance I have trouble with remembering deadlines despite's to do lists, I sleep in if given the option etc. I am a responsible adult despite this with great credit and a good job but around him I felt like my worst most incapable self. Like I was a child who was a mess without him. This turned out to be total bull shit but took me months to realize that. The version of me that existed with him is gone with the relationship and I'm happy about that. He'd bring out this obsessive needy emotional version of myself. Honestly is a secure relationship seriously going to bring that out in someone.

Your ex will be back and you will get the opportunity to observe how you feel then. Imagine you are watching yourself from a distance, would you call out to yourself and say p'please don't put me through this again. I can't take it. I'm done. Please.' That's what I literally would say to myself. I was begging myself to stop. It was stressful and just draining. I started to feel physically and mentally drained. At the end I started to look tired in pics while he looked great because he wasn't invested and was just focused on himself with yes, his freaking philosophy YouTube videos on meditation etc. but it was almost like his form of self help was just a way to get greater control over feeling, like more control. Like a way not to need others just to go into his head.

I realize this this is long. I can say even more.

xyphosuran
New Member

Posts: 12

Trying to find some understanding and peace Apr 16, 2017 21:21:28 GMT

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Post by xyphosuran on Apr 16, 2017 21:21:28 GMT

Oh and yes we can become more secure by doing things on our own but also mainly being around secure people and remembering secure people from our past. Also pets are good models of secure attachment as they destroy our objects but we still love them and don't feel it was personal. Counseling too because you are relating to another person and our limbic systems sync while in relationship to them so we are able to feel a secure connection with someone in a professional environment. Our attachments were formed through our relationships to people and can only be healed that way too. I'm saying this having read tons of books on attachment. I'm going to say something that will piss some self help addicts off but the idea that you need to just love yourself first but completely on your own is bullshir. We are social creatures who used to live in close knit clans so that whole lone man American idea is bull shit. I am where I am because of those who I am close to, my brother, best friend, counselor, and my new cat, if it weren't for my ability to connect with other people I wouldn't be able to get out of that relationship.

Becky *
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Trying to find some understanding and peace Apr 18, 2017 20:42:42 GMT via mobile

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Post by Becky * on Apr 18, 2017 20:42:42 GMT

I agree and am trying to take care of myself right now.

I do miss him and do love him, if I didn't then none of this would be so hard. My entire life was uprooted because of this relationship, and am now putting back the pieces on my own.

So the old relationship is dead. It is gone. And I feel like I need to shed my skin like a snake, revealing the parts of me that I love, and that I missed.

The person he fell in love with was not an incomplete, insecure, and anxious shell of a human being. She was a secure, loving, and confident women.

SHE is the one I want back. SHE is the one I truly lost.

I'm realizing that someone doesn't have control over ur actions and how u feel. Yes, his actions lead to my anxiety attacks in the end. But how did I give him that much power??

Why did I give myself away again and again?? It wasn't because he was avoidant, or because he wasn't a good boyfriend, or a good man. I don't have control over his actions, only my own.

I'm sick of putting so much ownus on him. His love, his withdrawal, his attention, his this, his that.

So no more. I miss him as a partner, yes, because when things were good they were great. But I can't hold onto those things anymore. I can't blame him and I can't even think about the "what ifs"

If he is meant to be in my life, he will come back in at a time when both of us are ready. Both of us have done inner work and both of us have gotten over the old relationship.

For now not having him in my life is the true
Best thing for my heart and soul. It's bittersweet, because I truly want him in my life, but at the same time, I know it's not possible to get back to me and have him there at the same time.

For now I just have to have faith. I am not usually this person to say and do these things, normally I cling and hold on for dear life!!

But I am prepared to let go. Because that is the only way I believe he would ever really come back on his own free will.

Not by me begging him, pleading him, and wanting him to be different. Because it's not going to happen.

So here I am picking up the pieces of my broken heart, willing to do what I need to do, and not put my happiness on anybody else.

Sam .
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Trying to find some understanding and peace Apr 19, 2017 10:21:38 GMT via mobile

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Post by Sam . on Apr 19, 2017 10:21:38 GMT

Hi Becky, I've just read your post. It's still very early days after your breakup, I'm 9 months after mine with an avoidant and I'm finally back to myself.
Like you I started off secure, open, confident and happy but by the end of 4 years I had no idea who I was or what the hell went on.
You will have your ups and downs along the way but you will get there. You are not to blame for the way he was or how it made you feel. It sounds like you're blaming yourself for letting him change you, try not to do that because if it's anything like mine it's such a gradual thing it's not until it's over you truly realise how bad it is. I felt destroyed by the end but looking back on my 'relationship' I now realise that no matter what I said or did it was never going to change or work. I was bullied and abused by my ex because of his avoidant traits but now I'm free.
It took me a long time to get my head round everything but you will get there too. Take your time, don't blame yourself, talk to as many people as you can and keep reading this forum, it helped me massively to see that I wasn't alone and going insane.