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Post by gaynxious on Apr 26, 2017 21:40:15 GMT
Sorry to use this site as a personal dating aid but I've had real difficulty lately determining if someone is avoidant or just unsure what he wants. I've been fairly adept lately at telling if a guy is avoidant and had that determination verified a few times. But I don't want to get in be habit of assuming anyone that doesn't give me exactly what I want is avoidant.
Anyways I met this guy and it took a bit for us to actually meet up. It we texted and met up at a group event and he immediately kissed and started being physically affectionate with me. He basically claimed me and marked his territory and then took me home with him. He didn't want to have sex which was fine but we did cuddle for hours and to skip details, fooled around.
He asked me what I was thinking and I said 'well I like you but I also don't really know you' to which he said 'then I guess you will have to get to know me'. we texted some and I asked him out on a date, he accepted, then didn't respond when I offered some options. We then ran into each other at an event I suggested and it was awkward at first but he was flirty and affectionate in a way that told me we were not spending he event together but there was no need for hostility.
After that communication was minimal although he liked my Facebook posts a lot. We would run into each other 1-2 times a week and he would often extend his hand to me and engage in physical affection.
Communication resumed but I was hesitant to ask for more again.
Then we ran into each other at a club and he was more flirty than usual, we even kissed a few times but as per usual he wondered off.
Not being taken I proceeded to make out with two other guys throughout the evening. He casually made some comments and due to intoxication I implied he wasn't interested so why should he care. He started making out with someone and I thought nothing of it. By the end of the night he told me he was going home with no implied invitation and started to say goodbye to his friends. I resumed making out with someone else and later he came back and said 'that was fast'. I said 'well I didn't think you were inviting me with you'. A few minutes later he asked me to come home with him and I did.
He confessed walking back that he was jealous when he saw me with other men and even angry for a moment. I jokingly called him out on accepting a date with me then flaking. To which he said 'ask me again when I am sober'. I then asked if he made out with someone just to make me jealous and he said 'a bit'.
During the night I told him I liked him but not the mixed messages. We had sex finally but due to alcohol it was cut short. I spent the night and the next morning we walked out together and he kissed me goodbye.
Later I made brief texting conversation about his day. We saw each other again as per every Sunday due to a sporting activity we both do and again he was physically affectionate but ultimately disengaged. I proceeded to spend time with another guy I am interested in that attends the same event and the guy in question saw us together.
The next day I texted asking how he was feeling as he had said he had been sick. No response, despite responding to some group Facebook messages we are both a part of. He alsoappears to have blocked me on a dating app we are both members of. It have never chatted on.(I know he blocked me cause I 'favorited' him and he disappeared, we live really close to each other) I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that he blocked me thinking I wouldn't realize it and so I couldn't stalk him, which admittedly I had been doing.
Anyways is this avoidant behavior? Do avoidants make public overtures for affection? Do secures actively try to make people jealous? He seems to available to be avoidant but at the same time he decides when we disengage unless he is afraid I am unavailable.
And I want to be clear it is never my intention to make him jealous. If he were to claim me like he did before I wouldn't show another person affection but if he disengages completely I feel perfectly free to pursue other options
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Post by trixie5179 on Apr 26, 2017 22:15:58 GMT
I'm not an expert but the first half of your post doesn't sound very avoidant to me. Maybe he just changed his mind about things ultimately? 😕
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Post by gaynxious on Apr 26, 2017 22:28:22 GMT
I feel like I prolly don't have enough information to go on. I'm trying to just let things happen at his pace and enjoy what little I am getting from him, if that is still an option. That's really difficult as an anxious though. Guess it's time to test those statements about having made strides toward earned security.
He's pretty attractive and popular so he prolly has plenty of options and other things to occupy his interest.
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Post by trixie5179 on Apr 26, 2017 22:41:57 GMT
Yeah I agree, it would take longer to really get a feel as to whether or not someone could be avoidant. I tend to be anxious as well, and don't really like when I don't know where I 'stand' with someone if that makes any sense. Like I need to feel secure in knowing what the person I'm dating (or not dating) thinks of me and what place I occupy in their life.
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Post by HowPredictable1 on Apr 26, 2017 22:42:10 GMT
Gaynxious,
I read your recount in full. I think that it's not necessary to label him Avoidant or anything else - he just seems to bring a lot of needless trouble and confusion to the table. You are already understandably baffled by his mixed messages, unclear intentions, blocking, jealousy games, casual indifferences, and overall lack of sustained effort to have a healthy connection with you.
My own approach to future relationships is going to be basic: Does this individual make me feel good? Safe? Accepted? Valued? Is there a lack of dishonesty and game-playing? Is he forthright in his intentions toward me?
Anyone who falls short of those standards will be politely and promptly invited to hit the road.
And remember -- all this confusion and drama is already taking form even though you are just getting to know him, i.e. the "honeymoon phase" when people usually show you their best versions of themselves. I shudder to think of what a longer term connection with this guy might be like, if he's already managed to throw you off your game this way. To (mis)quote Oprah or Dr. Phil or somebody: Doubt ....means don't.
All of which advice/input is offered in a supportive spirit, Gaynxious. |
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Post by gaynxious on Apr 26, 2017 23:00:09 GMT
I appreciate the advice and can't say I haven't had the same thoughts. I like the way I feel when I'm with him but I also know I want someone that wants me enough to be fully in. I don't expect him to give me all his time but he's made very little effort.
Avoidant or not, he is starting to drive me crazy, which is a bad sign. I'm hoping if I pull back from the crazy and just enjoy what's offered I won't care as much that I'm not getting what I want because I will still be pursuing other options. If that makes him angry, that's his problem.
I also don't want to get clarification because as he is really popular the last thing i need right now is someone else in addition to my ex telling people I am crazy.
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Post by Sam . on Apr 27, 2017 19:33:49 GMT
Hi, I agree with HowPredictable1 it's way too complicated already! Whether he's an avoidant or anxious is irrelevant, it should be straightforward when you first meet someone. Instead of asking yourself if he's avoidant ask if he's a secure. Do you really want a repeat performance of your last relationship or something straight forward? I've learnt from experience it should be fun not full of angst. Let this go before it does your head in again, put it down to experience and move forward.
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Post by HowPredictable1 on Apr 28, 2017 0:55:25 GMT
Hi, I agree with HowPredictable1 it's way too complicated already! Whether he's an avoidant or anxious is irrelevant, it should be straightforward when you first meet someone. Instead of asking yourself if he's avoidant ask if he's a secure. Do you really want a repeat performance of your last relationship or something straight forward? I've learnt from experience it should be fun not full of angst. Let this go before it does your head in again, put it down to experience and move forward. I will add that one of the "silver linings" of these otherwise-tragic and painful entanglements with Avoidants is that we get a chance to take a good hard look at our attraction to them, and the likely cause for it. Speaking only for myself, I now see in retrospect that I am inexorably drawn to people who are not capable of intimate relationships. Not just with this Avoidant Ex, but in all my relationships past. I've actually spent a lifetime dating (and marrying) partners who fit this mold, all the while deluding myself that I wanted a true, connected relationship and deluding myself that I was capable of participating fully in one. If that was the case, why would I keep choosing people who are chronically incapable of giving me what I claim to want? So it's likely that it's actually *me* who is (also) emotionally unavailable, and these Avoidants and other distancing types are "safe" for me to chase after. They are non-threatening emotionally, but also full of drama, mixed messages, aloofness, addictively-erratic behaviour, confusing communication, etc etc. They are the least likely candidates on the planet for a good relationship, and yet I see them as a challenge and want to turn them into healthy partners out of sheer determination and patience and love. That would make me pretty special, wouldn't it? That would be extreme validation, if I could accomplish that, right? Except it's never going to happen. And if I had a healthier attachment style myself, I would not give these people the time of day, and certainly would not be chasing after them with my own Anxious Attachment needs fully activated. So my suggestion, Gaynxious, is that rather than invest any more time analysing this guy's responses, motives, and intentions, you would be better served to examine why you are attracted to him and his drama in the first place. From what you've seen so far, is he likely to give you the kind of connection you are looking for? |
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Intermittent reinforcement
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Post by Intermittent reinforcement on May 1, 2017 1:44:27 GMT
How predictable, I definitely think I am susceptible to intermittent reinforcement. I realized that his behavior models it with a huge bit of reward for making myself avilable followed by less and less regularity of reward. And I find myself continuing to hope to run into him, to go places where he might be, to text him about mundane things hoping that the reward will be extended again.
Fortunately someone has been giving me consistent reinforcement, he doesn't seem to want a relationship but every time I see him he makes time for me and shows me a lot of attention and he is always responsive. Thankfully I started to prioritize him on my own but I still have trouble not wanting the intermittent reinforcement guy more.
Has anyone had any luck training themselves to not be drawn to this type of behavior? I would think that gambling addiction would have similar roots but I haven't found much on resisting intermittent reinforcement.
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Post by gaynxious on May 12, 2017 21:44:46 GMT
Well those of you that weight in were right. No info on whether he is avoidant or not but lately I have been wanting to reach out to him and get some idea if he is mad at me or if things are back to normal. Mentioned my interest in him casually to someone that knows him a little and knows a lot of his friends and he said to keep moving. The guy likes to play games he said and refused to say more.
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Post by annieb on May 13, 2017 19:21:54 GMT
How predictable, I definitely think I am susceptible to intermittent reinforcement. I realized that his behavior models it with a huge bit of reward for making myself avilable followed by less and less regularity of reward. And I find myself continuing to hope to run into him, to go places where he might be, to text him about mundane things hoping that the reward will be extended again. Fortunately someone has been giving me consistent reinforcement, he doesn't seem to want a relationship but every time I see him he makes time for me and shows me a lot of attention and he is always responsive. Thankfully I started to prioritize him on my own but I still have trouble not wanting the intermittent reinforcement guy more. Has anyone had any luck training themselves to not be drawn to this type of behavior? I would think that gambling addiction would have similar roots but I haven't found much on resisting intermittent reinforcement. I have addictive tendencies, and addiction is rampant in my family. I also have ADHD, which I think I developed as a teenager as a coping mechanism in my extremely unstable family situation that I grew up in (I take medication for it now and it's made about 50% improvement). When I am dealing with my dopamine swings that I now recognize, I sit and think a bit before I try to do an impulsive thing, impulsivity is simply an attempt for a body and brain to get out of lack of feel good chemicals, and to get more of the feel good chemicals, which dopamine and serotonin are. I think at this point it is safe to say, that when you start thinking of the intermittent reinforcement guy, you need to redirect your thought to a different potential reward. His presence in your thoughts should be an indication that your dopamine is low. That would be the short version. Make an arsenal of things that raise your dopamine level that you know of and that are positive and healthy. For example, it could be running in place, or jumping jacks, taking a bath, reading, drinking tea, coffee, petting a dog it's different for each person. Right now my last hurdle with my Avoidant ex is to get over wanting to look at his social media. I am in my 6th week of no contact via text, but I have occasionally looked at his social media, which made me really sad. I have quit cold turkey to not look at it and, when I feel the urge, I repeat in my head: "Ok, it's not good for you, what's another positive thing you could do not instead to change your mood?" It's easier to do this when on medication. Some ADHD medication will let you have that moment of clarity before an impulse. Obviously I am not a doctor, and I am not advising that you are ADHD, and need medication, I am just trying to explain what an impulsive behavior is - it's an attempt of your body to survive basically, and change the stasis, induce some feel good chemicals, and interacting with this guy is providing that. |
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Post by trixie5179 on May 13, 2017 19:53:16 GMT
How predictable, I definitely think I am susceptible to intermittent reinforcement. I realized that his behavior models it with a huge bit of reward for making myself avilable followed by less and less regularity of reward. And I find myself continuing to hope to run into him, to go places where he might be, to text him about mundane things hoping that the reward will be extended again. Fortunately someone has been giving me consistent reinforcement, he doesn't seem to want a relationship but every time I see him he makes time for me and shows me a lot of attention and he is always responsive. Thankfully I started to prioritize him on my own but I still have trouble not wanting the intermittent reinforcement guy more. Has anyone had any luck training themselves to not be drawn to this type of behavior? I would think that gambling addiction would have similar roots but I haven't found much on resisting intermittent reinforcement. I have addictive tendencies, and addiction is rampant in my family. I also have ADHD, which I think I developed as a teenager as a coping mechanism in my extremely unstable family situation that I grew up in (I take medication for it now and it's made about 50% improvement). When I am dealing with my dopamine swings that I now recognize, I sit and think a bit before I try to do an impulsive thing, impulsivity is simply an attempt for a body and brain to get out of lack of feel good chemicals, and to get more of the feel good chemicals, which dopamine and serotonin are. I think at this point it is safe to say, that when you start thinking of the intermittent reinforcement guy, you need to redirect your thought to a different potential reward. His presence in your thoughts should be an indication that your dopamine is low. That would be the short version. Make an arsenal of things that raise your dopamine level that you know of and that are positive and healthy. For example, it could be running in place, or jumping jacks, taking a bath, reading, drinking tea, coffee, petting a dog it's different for each person. Right now my last hurdle with my Avoidant ex is to get over wanting to look at his social media. I am in my 6th week of no contact via text, but I have occasionally looked at his social media, which made me really sad. I have quit cold turkey to not look at it and, when I feel the urge, I repeat in my head: "Ok, it's not good for you, what's another positive thing you could do not instead to change your mood?" It's easier to do this when on medication. Some ADHD medication will let you have that moment of clarity before an impulse. Obviously I am not a doctor, and I am not advising that you are ADHD, and need medication, I am just trying to explain what an impulsive behavior is - it's an attempt of your body to survive basically, and change the stasis, induce some feel good chemicals, and interacting with this guy is providing that. I was in the same position, hooked on checking my exs facebook. And each time I did it, which was many times a day, it was like torturing myself. It took me months, but I finally unfriended him and it's helped me so much. I highly recommend doing that if you haven't. |
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Post by annieb on May 13, 2017 20:03:48 GMT
I was in the same position, hooked on checking my exs facebook. And each time I did it, which was many times a day, it was like torturing myself. It took me months, but I finally unfriended him and it's helped me so much. I highly recommend doing that if you haven't. Thank you for your suggestion. Believe it or not, I had already unfriended him months ago, I would just stare at his profile picture, and a few of his public photos, as well as stalk his friends list like a hawk, making sure I look up any female he has added. It was truly pathetic, until I thought better of myself and avoided looking up his profile altogether. I feel loads better already and it's only been less than a week since I stopped this compulsion. |
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