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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 26, 2018 4:57:16 GMT
I don't think your wanting some physical space is necessarily avoidance. It may be a re-balancing if you had excessive amounts of physical contact before or some codependence or whatever.... However, it does seem like maybe there could be more clarity with your husband about what you want/need and more agreement on how that can work out within the relationship. For example, maybe you need to talk more about cues (an example might be if you want more physical space you sit on a different couch and if you want more physical closeness you'd sit on the same couch, something like that).
Also while I can't relate to everything in your post, I want to say hello cause we have a lot in common (I've been married about 15 years, have kids, am working on boundary setting with them, can identify with the "i need to take care of me and can't take care of you too.")
Ultimately we have to focus on figuring out and asking for what we want and need and our partners would ideally ask for what they want and need too, but of course making better communication is a two-way street so we have to take our own part in that too.
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 3, 2018 23:55:57 GMT
Nice!!!!
Good work asking for what you want.
******
I do wonder about this sort of dynamic because I see it in myself too in other ways-- like say my spouse is away on a trip for 4 or 5 days, by the final day I start to miss them and think affectionate thoughts and how nice it will be to have them home, but then when they walk in the door my initial reaction is to often want to walk off and do laundry or something. All the hugging people do on reconciliations in airports and such, I wonder what it would take for that to seem comfortable and natural. And is it somehow a bad sign if it one's initial reaction on a reconciliation (whether after a day of work or a trip or whatever) is to want distance, or is this just a matter of different people being different?
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Post by mrob on Nov 4, 2018 0:49:00 GMT
I don't think your wanting some physical space is necessarily avoidance. It may be a re-balancing if you had excessive amounts of physical contact before or some codependence or whatever.... However, it does seem like maybe there could be more clarity with your husband about what you want/need and more agreement on how that can work out within the relationship. For example, maybe you need to talk more about cues (an example might be if you want more physical space you sit on a different couch and if you want more physical closeness you'd sit on the same couch, something like that). Also while I can't relate to everything in your post, I want to say hello cause we have a lot in common (I've been married about 15 years, have kids, am working on boundary setting with them, can identify with the "i need to take care of me and can't take care of you too.") Ultimately we have to focus on figuring out and asking for what we want and need and our partners would ideally ask for what they want and need too, but of course making better communication is a two-way street so we have to take our own part in that too. Today my husband came home and walk toward me with what I could tell was intent to hug me and I immediately tensed with a “don’t touch me” drive. So I noted that feeling and said in what could have been a better tone but nothing too off putting “I really need space right now”. And he took it well and said yeah ok. And that was that. No fight, he didn’t make it a sign of my distaste for him. It was great. He then took the kids and let me have time to decompress alone- which I soooo needed. Hopefully something we can continue to work on. Communication is not my strong suit but I’m working on it. , I hope you’re engaging in some sort of marriage counselling in real life, because that sort of behaviour has the power to do irreparable damage. I was a stay at home Dad, I get that need to decompress, but I wouldn’t cope well with shunning like that. The truth can be used in a caring, compassionate way, or it can be used as a club. |
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 4, 2018 5:35:04 GMT
Today my husband came home and walk toward me with what I could tell was intent to hug me and I immediately tensed with a “don’t touch me” drive. So I noted that feeling and said in what could have been a better tone but nothing too off putting “I really need space right now”. And he took it well and said yeah ok. And that was that. No fight, he didn’t make it a sign of my distaste for him. It was great. He then took the kids and let me have time to decompress alone- which I soooo needed. Hopefully something we can continue to work on. Communication is not my strong suit but I’m working on it. , I hope you’re engaging in some sort of marriage counselling in real life, because that sort of behaviour has the power to do irreparable damage. I was a stay at home Dad, I get that need to decompress, but I wouldn’t cope well with shunning like that. The truth can be used in a caring, compassionate way, or it can be used as a club. You know I’m surprised by this. Not because my husband and I don’t need counseling- we almost certainly do- but because this was actually a really positive interaction for us. I know you weren’t actually there and haven’t seen how things go with us so I don’t expect anyone to really understand it. My husband- fortunately for me- is a pretty understanding guy. An understatement really if you’ve read any of my situation around these boards. We definitely need work and I was by no means perfect in my comminication but the fact that I recognized my need for space and verbalized it at all I saw as a win for me. That my husband heard me and didn’t internalize it was a win for both of us because he saw it as just about where I was at and I didn’t feel guilty or like I hurt him. But if you have any feedback on things that have worked for you when you feel yourself pulling away to bring yourself back in I would love to hear it. My anxious tendencies have been easier to list out and see where I use them and alternative actions to use. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 4, 2018 12:27:10 GMT
I don’t mean to invalidate your thoughts or actions, please. I’m putting myself into your husband’s shoes. You’ve had an epiphany and are moving away. Growing away, and there’s nothing he can do about it.
You’re not giving him the opportunity. The act of cutting off physical contact brusquely - and granted, I wasn’t there - after a day at work would be heartbreaking. If you want to watch your marriage wither and die, keep going with it.
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 4, 2018 19:31:22 GMT
I don’t mean to invalidate your thoughts or actions, please. I’m putting myself into your husband’s shoes. You’ve had an epiphany and are moving away. Growing away, and there’s nothing he can do about it. You’re not giving him the opportunity. The act of cutting off physical contact brusquely - and granted, I wasn’t there - after a day at work would be heartbreaking. If you want to watch your marriage wither and die, keep going with it. I can appreciate your empathy for my husband. Believe it or not I have a lot for him too. I think your interpretation of this specific situation is wrong but as a whole is not. I would like to find a way to grow with him but I can’t force him. I can only keep growing and hope he comes along when he is ready. But I am not perfect and this is a process. If you have words of wisdom or advice on that matter I would gladly take it. Your comments come across as judgemental to me. I know they are just your perception and my propensity to take it as criticism comes from mine. So I am going to use my most generous assumption and think you meant well by them. And thank you for reminding me to look at my wounding and how it skews my view of the world and drives my reactions. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 4, 2018 22:34:44 GMT
I broke my own rule there of “the worst vice is advice”, rather than talking about my own experience, so I’m sorry it came across as judgmental.
My experience is that I jknow what it’s like to be in the way of someone’s growth. It’s horrible. Trying to maintain the status quo when the alternative could have been to grow together. I’ve watched two marriages slip away. They died of atrophy, until one of us looked outside for comfort and finished the job. First time her, second time me. My second wife was never open to counselling until it was way too late. It doesn’t excuse my behaviour.
I’ve got the best set up with joint care of our daughter, and I have a better relationship with my ex-wife than for the last years of our marriage. But even then, iits gut wrenching to watch kids being flicked from pillar to post. Her work hours are good, no need for change there. I’ve had to totally reorganise my life to be an integral part of my daughter’s life. I’m not resentful, but I can’t help but think sometimes, what for? Was this necessary? Could we have found a better way together? My experience is with my insecure attachment style triggered, controlling me like a marionette, and I had no idea. You have the benefit of insight.
I hope this illustrates where I’m coming from in a way that doesn’t cast judgement.
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 4, 2018 23:30:30 GMT
I broke my own rule there of “the worst vice is advice”, rather than talking about my own experience, so I’m sorry it came across as judgmental. My experience is that I jknow what it’s like to be in the way of someone’s growth. It’s horrible. Trying to maintain the status quo when the alternative could have been to grow together. I’ve watched two marriages slip away. They died of atrophy, until one of us looked outside for comfort and finished the job. First time her, second time me. My second wife was never open to counselling until it was way too late. It doesn’t excuse my behaviour. I’ve got the best set up with joint care of our daughter, and I have a better relationship with my ex-wife than for the last years of our marriage. But even then, iits gut wrenching to watch kids being flicked from pillar to post. Her work hours are good, no need for change there. I’ve had to totally reorganise my life to be an integral part of my daughter’s life. I’m not resentful, but I can’t help but think sometimes, what for? Was this necessary? Could we have found a better way together? My experience is with my insecure attachment style triggered, controlling me like a marionette, and I had no idea. You have the benefit of insight. I hope this illustrates where I’m coming from in a way that doesn’t cast judgement. No worries mrob. I understand that from the other side you would want to cast a warning for what lies ahead for us. I think you very well have a grasp of what that is. He said once he is just waiting for it to be over- and I had to tell him it’s not going to be. I’ve changed and I’m not going back. What can I do with that? Seriously- what do you wish you did differently? Growth happens when it happens- I can’t manufacture it for him. He’s been to one therapy session on his own and has not been back. I’m not trying to paint him as a bad guy- he isn’t. He is just trying to maintain control and I get that. I did mean it when I said thank you for making me look at my wounds. Your words could have come from my mother’s own mouth. “Go ahead keep it up and just you see what happens”. My perception of Control via fear and judgement. And in truth- he maybe afraid of my changing but I am also afraid of doing it with him because of the fear of judgement and consequences. Will I step up and be seen and will be not like who I really am? I see him resisting change and think- he wants me to stay the same broken woman I’ve been because it’s easier for him. Then I get defensive and defiant at my own projections onto him because I need this. And I avoid him because I want to grow and growing is hard to do when you feel like your being watched. Those aren’t his thoughts- my husband is the most supportive man I have ever known. He is not my mother and the world isn’t as my mother painted it to be for me. And if they are his thoughts, they would have a place and I can actually empathize with that. I don’t need to be defiant and defensive- i can be understanding and grow through it- not around it. this feels like work best done before you are married with children- but for me it would have never occurred in another place. Rock and a hard place- as they say. |
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Post by epicgum on Nov 4, 2018 23:53:05 GMT
I broke my own rule there of “the worst vice is advice”, rather than talking about my own experience, so I’m sorry it came across as judgmental. My experience is that I jknow what it’s like to be in the way of someone’s growth. It’s horrible. Trying to maintain the status quo when the alternative could have been to grow together. I’ve watched two marriages slip away. They died of atrophy, until one of us looked outside for comfort and finished the job. First time her, second time me. My second wife was never open to counselling until it was way too late. It doesn’t excuse my behaviour. I’ve got the best set up with joint care of our daughter, and I have a better relationship with my ex-wife than for the last years of our marriage. But even then, iits gut wrenching to watch kids being flicked from pillar to post. Her work hours are good, no need for change there. I’ve had to totally reorganise my life to be an integral part of my daughter’s life. I’m not resentful, but I can’t help but think sometimes, what for? Was this necessary? Could we have found a better way together? My experience is with my insecure attachment style triggered, controlling me like a marionette, and I had no idea. You have the benefit of insight. I hope this illustrates where I’m coming from in a way that doesn’t cast judgement. No worries mrob. I understand that from the other side you would want to cast a warning for what lies ahead for us. I think you very well have a grasp of what that is. He said once he is just waiting for it to be over- and I had to tell him it’s not going to be. I’ve changed and I’m not going back. What can I do with that? Seriously- what do you wish you did differently? Growth happens when it happens- I can’t manufacture it for him. He’s been to one therapy session on his own and has not been back. I’m not trying to paint him as a bad guy- he isn’t. He is just trying to maintain control and I get that. I did mean it when I said thank you for making me look at my wounds. Your words could have come from my mother’s own mouth. “Go ahead keep it up and just you see what happens”. My perception of Control via fear and judgement. And in truth- he maybe afraid of my changing but I am also afraid of doing it with him because of the fear of judgement and consequences. Will I step up and be seen and will be not like who I really am? I see him resisting change and think- he wants me to stay the same broken woman I’ve been because it’s easier for him. Then I get defensive and defiant at my own projections onto him because I need this. And I avoid him because I want to grow and growing is hard to do when you feel like your being watched. Those aren’t his thoughts- my husband is the most supportive man I have ever known. He is not my mother and the world isn’t as my mother painted it to be for me. And if they are his thoughts, they would have a place and I can actually empathize with that. I don’t need to be defiant and defensive- i can be understanding and grow through it- not around it. this feels like work best done before you are married with children- but for me it would have never occurred in another place. Rock and a hard place- as they say. I can kind of relate to someone "growing" away from you....and then the relationship ending (in abandonment). So I can sympathize with mrob and that fear of change and growth. In my own experience it kind of invalidates what you had before...ie. this dynamic was good for us in the past....why am I no longer enough for you? Of course, we are all always changing all the time...I think (combining other peoples musings here) that part of a marriage is working to grow together in compatible ways. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 5, 2018 1:19:35 GMT
This is second life stuff. This is the essence of mid life crises. I agree, one can’t go back. But surely he deserves the opportunity to continue together, or to at least make the decision not to. That the status quo won’t do. It is finished, gone. In straight talking terms. If that isn’t possible, then in a couples counselling setting, baring all and risking judgement. With judgement, those that mind don’t matter, and those that matter don’t mind.
I know I’m being a bit full on, but I never got married to get divorced. Divorce has made me face up to what I should have been doing all along. But if I could have both, I would.... in a heartbeat. I love my ex-wife, albeit in a broken way, and love surely means wanting the best for someone.
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 5, 2018 4:37:36 GMT
This is second life stuff. This is the essence of mid life crises. I agree, one can’t go back. But surely he deserves the opportunity to continue together, or to at least make the decision not to. That the status quo won’t do. It is finished, gone. In straight talking terms. If that isn’t possible, then in a couples counselling setting, baring all and risking judgement. With judgement, those that mind don’t matter, and those that matter don’t mind. I know I’m being a bit full on, but I never got married to get divorced. Divorce has made me face up to what I should have been doing all along. But if I could have both, I would.... in a heartbeat. I love my ex-wife, albeit in a broken way, and love surely means wanting the best for someone. Yeah- this was/is 100% a midlife crisis. I’m only 36- I didn’t expect it so soon but here I am- there no denying that’s what I’ve got. It’s alright though this is the best thing that’s ever happened to me. I don’t want to not give him the oppertunity. And I’m not trying to shun him or neglect him or outgrow him. I am trying to show up in life and be a mindful, aware and decent person. I’m trying to take care of myself and be responsible for once in my life. To stop avoiding pain and seeking the next best thing and instead be content with life just as it is. One would think that would be a good thing. But change doesn’t always feel good. I had the rug pulled out from under me but I was asking for it. He didn’t. And I hear what you’re saying- those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind. I believe that but practice is another thing and I stand to lose the most here so it’s hard. I thought I was doing pretty good but I’m clearly still hiding. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 7, 2018 0:39:41 GMT
I think my "midlife crisis" was 38-ish. Technically that is mid-life LOL. I'm glad to have come out the other side though. There is light at the end of the tunnel...
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 7, 2018 0:46:51 GMT
BTW regarding what others wrote above, I don't agree that your action was inappropriate. Sure you could work on the means of communication a bit, but it's okay to not want to hug immediately-- though maybe it's a matter of consistency, like making a mutual understanding that after work you need physical space to relax and that you're interested in physical contact later in the evening [or whenever-- I actually don't even think physical contact is inherently necessary to a healthy marriage as long as both people are on the same page, though I realize in most cases one or both people will want regular physical contact. The important thing is getting to the same page that meets both people's needs and desires sufficiently].
Also I think in a secure relationship, a person occasionally bristling with a "don't touch me" is no big deal. Nobody wants to be touched every time their partner wants to do the touching. Everybody is sometimes edgy or moody. A secure relationship knows that those surface waves aren't wrecking the deeper ocean underneath.
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Post by 8675309 on Nov 7, 2018 1:35:02 GMT
Also I think in a secure relationship, a person occasionally bristling with a "don't touch me" is no big deal. Nobody wants to be touched every time their partner wants to do the touching. Everybody is sometimes edgy or moody. A secure relationship knows that those surface waves aren't wrecking the deeper ocean underneath. Truth. While I love touching I dont want it all the time, makes me feel smothered. And yes sometimes we are just irritable from a bad day or the like.
Touching was low on my 5 Love Languages test, Im acts of service all the way. My friend scored high for touching, we all have our thing.
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