Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 15:41:53 GMT
I'm fearful avoidant. Apparently, from what I've read, this is the worst type to be. I disagree though. I think it's the "best of both worlds" (tbh, it's more like the worst of both worlds, but hear me out). First, it makes so much sense why I always felt like I was both codependent (anxious preoccupied) AND narcissistic (dismissive avoidant), switching between the two easily depending on my mood, the environment, or the person I'm interacting with. Interestingly, if the other person is more narcissistic, I become more codependent and soft and grow to hate it and hate them, so then I switch it up and leave them feeling like shit. Likewise, if the other person is more codependent/anxious, I become more narcissistic/dismissive and grow increasingly annoyed at their neediness and impatient with their softness. And that's just it. At their extreme: - Secure - secure (there is no extreme here)
- Anxious preoccupied - codependent
- Dismissive avoidant - narcissist(ic)
- Fearful avoidant (aka anxious avoidant, aka ambivalent, aka disorganized) - loner/schizoid tendencies
I am very much a loner.
I am also aware that no one is "firmly" secure or any other type of attachment style. People change depending on the situation and variables involved. but for the most part, we tend to fall into one type of attachment more than others. For me, it was never really apparent because I always felt I was everything at once. This is one reason I believe 'it's the best of both worlds' because if you're a self-aware fearful avoidant, you see yourself in EVERYONE. In every reaction and behavior, and I find that this gives me pretty good insight into myself and others, psychologically and emotionally. Which means I have the inner tools to get better. Fearful avoidants apparently have double the work to do because we have to reduce our anxiety and avoidance. So far, I've been able to reduce my anxiety by up to 80%, and my avoidance about 30-40%. There are some days where I feel secure and neither anxious or avoidant. Most of the time, I'm avoidant. And I have to say, the avoidant tendencies are much harder to fix than the anxious ones are, so I can imagine the hell dismissive avoidants have to go through to become more secure. No wonder they have the worst track record for healing. That being said, the other reason I think it's the best of both worlds is because... it's not so much about reducing anxiety and avoidance, but more about synthesizing them. So the solution for a DA is to open up to themselves and others emotionally, the solution for an AP is to provide themselves with love, and the solution for FA's is to synthesize the two. But the way it would manifest looks like they are reducing both their anxiety and avoidance. Under the hood, what's really happening is that they're swapping traits from both sides: take some avoidant tendencies and place them onto your anxious ones, and vice versa. That is how you reach a middle ground.
In an article I read about FA's, there was a part that went something like "when a fearful avoidant is triggered, watch out!" I didn't understand what it was hinting at. But I know now. I lash out and get revengeful. It is truly scary how I plan things out to get back at people in ways they'd never see coming. I wasn't aware of this in myself before but I'm quite manipulative and can be both covertly and overtly aggressive when triggered. As an example, there are certain people I know who I think are very disordered and frequently wonder why they're so toxic. Well, when I've 'unleashed' myself onto them, even they back off. It happened just recently. The person I thought was the most manipulative piece of crap actually gave up dealing with me. What does that say about me? I'm toxic? I always thought it was everyone else and that I'm responding in kind. Which brings me to my next point: It is everyone else as well though, not just me (but obviously it's me too). Because interactions are a constant input-output between both parties. And the way I became fearful avoidant... well, it's the inconsistency in my parents. One parent is narcissistic, the other is codependent. I'd either be suffocated by the closeness and the intrusiveness, or I'd be neglected and left in the dust when I needed them the most. Then there's the issue with everyone else besides my parents. I'm not surrounded by ANYONE who is balanced as an individual, attachment style aside. I feel this on a deep level. And being around imbalanced people for a long time makes one imbalanced as well. Until I can get away, of course. It's largely the environment that causes me to be this way still, even now that I'm aware of my issues. You become who you are around. I always hated that. And it further exacerbated my loner habits.
In conclusion: my theory now is that I'd easily be 'secure' around more balanced people, as in... it wouldn't take me long to act securely, I wouldn't have much healing to do. But when I try to heal in a fucked up environment like I am now, it obviously takes much longer, making it seem like I'm more messed up than I am. Also, I think the push-pull dynamic FA's are notorious for is really just an exaggerated form of secure attachment. Everyone does it, every relationship is a push-pull, but in secures it is much more subdued. Practically everyone fears vulnerability (or at the very least, it makes them uncomfortable unless they trust a person; and trust takes a while to build) and abandonment/rejection. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Oct 28, 2018 16:29:59 GMT
Hi @blacksnow, I think you've come to a lot of insight, and awareness doesn't come easily for most insecures and especially FA, so bravo. I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm AP turned fully earned secure not FA, but I've dated a couple textbook FAs including one I was kind of on and off with for almost 3 years.
I hear from people I know IRL a lot (and sometimes on this board) who realize they are FA and think it is the "worst" one. I understand why this happens, because when trying to figure out wtf was happening with my ex I eventually did a lot of reading on FA and it's presented as "toxic" and terrible and bad in a lot of the literature about it. Sometimes it's dismissed totally as, this style is so rare and challenging that you should just write off FAs and let them go to therapy and we're just going to talk about DA. I appreciate that you're trying to flip the script of well, it's the worst but it's not all bad. But when I hear it is the worst, I challenge you to flip it even more.
FA requires the most work to heal from for various reasons, some of which you discussed. But none of the insecure styles have to be bad and are all worthy of positive acceptance since people are just people and more than their attachment styles. I think of insecure attachment styles as defense mechanisms leftover from childhood that are now out of context and don't serve you as an adult. They are not the fault of the person who has one, but it is up to the adult to take responsibility for it and (hopefully) work on healing once awareness has been reached. It's not about comparisons to other styles or other people or about blame. There's no worst or need to justify. It just is and can be addressed if the person is willing.
I don't like to see the insecure styles ranked because it plays into the mindset and can be used as another reason to feel bad about oneself putting acceptance further away and delaying healing. FA is the hardest to heal but not the "worst," and it's too bad the information on it vastly positions it as a negative for the people sincerely trying to work through it, as you are.
The other thing I wanted to say is I have found it very helpful to think about the anxious/avoidant graph (the four quadrants being drawn from 0 to 7 on anxious and avoidant) also as the other way I've seen it depicted. Which is, positive/negative view of self and trust/ distrust of others (more anxiety correlates to more negative view of self, more avoidance correlates to more distrust of others). To me, this explains what needs to be healed at the core instead of thinking of it as "swapping" characteristics. I agree that the avoidant side is probably a lot harder to heal and wanted to offer this as another perspective to think about it from that may help?
I also think you can heal without it depending on your environment now that you're so aware. The healing really completely comes from you, and it's helpful to your own narrative to find more stable people who can validate your "new" world view, but if you build up your own self esteem it's not totally necessary. Insecures tend to attract insecures, because they relate better to the familiarity, so it's not too surprising you're finding yourself surrounded by other insecures now that you realize it. But it doesn't mean they're all toxic. Get rid of the ones who are, but you can also be primarily insecurely attached while still securely attached to certain individuals. Those individuals may also be insecure, but don't automatically write them off if you generally interact with them in a healthy way and can rely on them.
I've found since understanding all this that most of my friends are other insecures, but a lot have done their own work or only get activated by romantic relationships and have been there for me for 10, 20 years, so we are securely friends and it wasn't detrimental to my healing. Now, in fact, we're able to help each other because of the awareness and work.
Keep up your hard work. You're doing great. I also found my healing really increased in speed once all the styles made sense to me and clicked in my head, and it's left me way more confident in my ability to choose new partners after years and years and years of not trusting myself and thinking my "picker" was broken.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 19:51:38 GMT
Sometimes it's dismissed totally as, this style is so rare and challenging that you should just write off FAs and let them go to therapy and we're just going to talk about DA. I appreciate that you're trying to flip the script of well, it's the worst but it's not all bad. But when I hear it is the worst, I challenge you to flip it even more. I would put it this way: FAs are hard to love. And it's mostly because of the inconsistency, you'll never know what you're going to get (I can't even predict myself sometimes), but you can kinda predict the other types. I don't actually think I'm toxic to be honest. But none of the insecure styles have to be bad and are all worthy of positive acceptance since people are just people and more than their attachment styles. Yes. I used to think that way, like "oh forget that asshole, he's just a DA" or something. I mean, it's okay to make that decision particularly if someone doesn't show signs of improvement or there are other things about them that you'd rather not deal with, but generally I think people are a lot more complicated than that. Nuance and layers play into it big time. It's not about comparisons to other styles or other people or about blame. There's no worst or need to justify. It just is and can be addressed if the person is willing. I find it quite helpful and useful to compare. It really pinpoints the individual problems that have to be addressed. I have no qualms about saying that it is the worst one. I don't feel bad about it, it's a fact considering everything. That doesn't mean I can't turn it into a positive though. To me, this explains what needs to be healed at the core instead of thinking of it as "swapping" characteristics. I agree that the avoidant side is probably a lot harder to heal and wanted to offer this as another perspective to think about it from that may help? Quite true, yes. The swapping is something that I figured works for me, I think of the "configuration dials" within me being all out of balance, and the ones on the avoidant side need a little more anxiety/feeling to them so they are awakened so to speak — really, I avoid so I don't have to feel a certain way, not avoiding and sitting with those feelings is how I become less avoidant. While the ones on the anxious side need a little more avoidance so they are quieted — again, sit with the feeling but do not act upon them, and avoidants are great at not acting upon things. Then it is much easier to override your default response. It's a duality of sorts that I was going for, and the quadrants reflect that pretty nicely. I also think you can heal without it depending on your environment now that you're so aware. The healing really completely comes from you, and it's helpful to your own narrative to find more stable people who can validate your "new" world view, but if you build up your own self esteem it's not totally necessary. Insecures tend to attract insecures, because they relate better to the familiarity, so it's not too surprising you're finding yourself surrounded by other insecures now that you realize it. But it doesn't mean they're all toxic. Get rid of the ones who are, but you can also be primarily insecurely attached while still securely attached to certain individuals. Those individuals may also be insecure, but don't automatically write them off if you generally interact with them in a healthy way and can rely on them. Okay so I fibbed a little. There are some balanced people around me. The few who I vibe with, we're generally on good terms and I keep them around. There's a sense of peace when I interact with them. Plus, I know some people who are secure and are toxic... I stay away from them. As for the healing coming completely from me, I would say that that's where it originates and that's what I have control of the most. But the environment + people around you do matter and make a tremendous difference. |
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Oct 29, 2018 22:58:58 GMT
Welcome to the club. In my experience, knowing this stuff is great. Applying it within a relationship can be terrifying. I feel sadness and compassion when reading others experiences of my type of behaviour when triggered. I can see the frustration and hurt that my seemingly inconsistent behaviour causes. That’s why I’m here. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
|
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Oct 29, 2018 23:24:59 GMT
I'm fearful avoidant. Apparently, from what I've read, this is the worst type to be. I disagree though. I think it's the "best of both worlds" (tbh, it's more like the worst of both worlds, but hear me out). First, it makes so much sense why I always felt like I was both codependent (anxious preoccupied) AND narcissistic (dismissive avoidant), switching between the two easily depending on my mood, the environment, or the person I'm interacting with. Interestingly, if the other person is more narcissistic, I become more codependent and soft and grow to hate it and hate them, so then I switch it up and leave them feeling like shit. Likewise, if the other person is more codependent/anxious, I become more narcissistic/dismissive and grow increasingly annoyed at their neediness and impatient with their softness. And that's just it. At their extreme: - Secure - secure (there is no extreme here)
- Anxious preoccupied - codependent
- Dismissive avoidant - narcissist(ic)
- Fearful avoidant (aka anxious avoidant, aka ambivalent, aka disorganized) - loner/schizoid tendencies
I am very much a loner.
I am also aware that no one is "firmly" secure or any other type of attachment style. People change depending on the situation and variables involved. but for the most part, we tend to fall into one type of attachment more than others. For me, it was never really apparent because I always felt I was everything at once. This is one reason I believe 'it's the best of both worlds' because if you're a self-aware fearful avoidant, you see yourself in EVERYONE. In every reaction and behavior, and I find that this gives me pretty good insight into myself and others, psychologically and emotionally. Which means I have the inner tools to get better. Fearful avoidants apparently have double the work to do because we have to reduce our anxiety and avoidance. So far, I've been able to reduce my anxiety by up to 80%, and my avoidance about 30-40%. There are some days where I feel secure and neither anxious or avoidant. Most of the time, I'm avoidant. And I have to say, the avoidant tendencies are much harder to fix than the anxious ones are, so I can imagine the hell dismissive avoidants have to go through to become more secure. No wonder they have the worst track record for healing. That being said, the other reason I think it's the best of both worlds is because... it's not so much about reducing anxiety and avoidance, but more about synthesizing them. So the solution for a DA is to open up to themselves and others emotionally, the solution for an AP is to provide themselves with love, and the solution for FA's is to synthesize the two. But the way it would manifest looks like they are reducing both their anxiety and avoidance. Under the hood, what's really happening is that they're swapping traits from both sides: take some avoidant tendencies and place them onto your anxious ones, and vice versa. That is how you reach a middle ground.
In an article I read about FA's, there was a part that went something like "when a fearful avoidant is triggered, watch out!" I didn't understand what it was hinting at. But I know now. I lash out and get revengeful. It is truly scary how I plan things out to get back at people in ways they'd never see coming. I wasn't aware of this in myself before but I'm quite manipulative and can be both covertly and overtly aggressive when triggered. As an example, there are certain people I know who I think are very disordered and frequently wonder why they're so toxic. Well, when I've 'unleashed' myself onto them, even they back off. It happened just recently. The person I thought was the most manipulative piece of crap actually gave up dealing with me. What does that say about me? I'm toxic? I always thought it was everyone else and that I'm responding in kind. Which brings me to my next point: It is everyone else as well though, not just me (but obviously it's me too). Because interactions are a constant input-output between both parties. And the way I became fearful avoidant... well, it's the inconsistency in my parents. One parent is narcissistic, the other is codependent. I'd either be suffocated by the closeness and the intrusiveness, or I'd be neglected and left in the dust when I needed them the most. Then there's the issue with everyone else besides my parents. I'm not surrounded by ANYONE who is balanced as an individual, attachment style aside. I feel this on a deep level. And being around imbalanced people for a long time makes one imbalanced as well. Until I can get away, of course. It's largely the environment that causes me to be this way still, even now that I'm aware of my issues. You become who you are around. I always hated that. And it further exacerbated my loner habits.
In conclusion: my theory now is that I'd easily be 'secure' around more balanced people, as in... it wouldn't take me long to act securely, I wouldn't have much healing to do. But when I try to heal in a fucked up environment like I am now, it obviously takes much longer, making it seem like I'm more messed up than I am. Also, I think the push-pull dynamic FA's are notorious for is really just an exaggerated form of secure attachment. Everyone does it, every relationship is a push-pull, but in secures it is much more subdued. Practically everyone fears vulnerability (or at the very least, it makes them uncomfortable unless they trust a person; and trust takes a while to build) and abandonment/rejection. An awesome overview of the attachments and how they interact and play off each other. You state it in a very understandable way and one that resonates with myself and my ex FA. I couldn’t figure out if he was FA or DA since he presented FA when together and strongly DA since right before the break until now...but the way you explain it makes a lot of sense and is an eye opener to me. Also the way you listed each attachment at their most severe makes a lot of sense. I would like to intro my ex DA to some of this attachment theory but he’s in strong DA mode so I don’t think he’ll receive it. I can see how this off balance between the AP/Avoidant can actually serve to balance each other out as one partner could be an example to the other to be more quiet, calm, loving of self in the AP case or trusting, open and more interdependent in the avoidant case. How did you come around to acceptance of your FA ways? |
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Oct 30, 2018 0:07:04 GMT
As a secure that has had real relationships with only secures, Ive never experienced a push pull. It just goes.
Ive only experienced this with a DA guy thats been lingering around this past year and we never got to a commitment. He was in and out, hard chase, then fizzle, vanish for a few weeks to a month, rinse, repeat. I let him linger too long... I cut him off and told him not contact me again unless hes willing to work oh his behavior.
Im heavy secure, some DA and 2% anxious. He sure triggered that 2%! LOL. I just didn't act on the anxious feeling with AP style behavior, my secure side kept it check and sat with it alone. Then stumbling upon attachment styles relieved the anxiousness all together.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 2:33:59 GMT
An awesome overview of the attachments and how they interact and play off each other. You state it in a very understandable way and one that resonates with myself and my ex FA. I couldn’t figure out if he was FA or DA since he presented FA when together and strongly DA since right before the break until now...but the way you explain it makes a lot of sense and is an eye opener to me. Also the way you listed each attachment at their most severe makes a lot of sense. I would like to intro my ex DA to some of this attachment theory but he’s in strong DA mode so I don’t think he’ll receive it. I can see how this off balance between the AP/Avoidant can actually serve to balance each other out as one partner could be an example to the other to be more quiet, calm, loving of self in the AP case or trusting, open and more interdependent in the avoidant case. How did you come around to acceptance of your FA ways? I think you'd have to time it right, if you feel he wouldn't receive it well, don't do it. DAs can show AP traits depending on the dynamic. There's someone I know who is DA and can sometimes pass for FA for this very reason. I've triggered his anxiety on more than one occasion. As for your question, I'm in a bad environment and I don't feel an iota of regret for being this way around these people. In fact, I love that they trigger me because I'm shown what I need to work on. Everything I do is intentional. And it's fun to boot, because there's no "chill" in this place, and I get to satisfy my need for intensity, destruction, and transformation. I get to understand and know myself on a deep level; since I'm not in a relationship for these patterns to become apparent, then I'll just join the most dysfunctional group of people I know and uncover what has been dormant in me for so long. Gaze into the abyss. Counter intuitively, this way, I become more and more secure. When I've reduced a certain amount of anxiety and avoidance, I will move on. As a secure that has had real relationships with only secures, Ive never experienced a push pull. It just goes. Ive only experienced this with a DA guy thats been lingering around this past year and we never got to a commitment. He was in and out, hard chase, then fizzle, vanish for a few weeks to a month, rinse, repeat. I let him linger too long... I cut him off and told him not contact me again unless hes willing to work oh his behavior. Im heavy secure, some DA and 2% anxious. He sure triggered that 2%! LOL. I just didn't act on the anxious feeling with AP style behavior, my secure side kept it check and sat with it alone. Then stumbling upon attachment styles relieved the anxiousness all together. Hmmm, I could be wrong about the push pull with secures. It seems to me though that every relationship has a "come here, go away" aspect. You can't always be together, you have to be apart sometimes and those times don't always match for each partner. But I suppose in secures, it's just not coming from insecurity. And yes, so true. Simply knowing about the attachment styles relieves so much, it's practically half of the journey. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Oct 30, 2018 2:57:14 GMT
An awesome overview of the attachments and how they interact and play off each other. You state it in a very understandable way and one that resonates with myself and my ex FA. I couldn’t figure out if he was FA or DA since he presented FA when together and strongly DA since right before the break until now...but the way you explain it makes a lot of sense and is an eye opener to me. Also the way you listed each attachment at their most severe makes a lot of sense. I would like to intro my ex DA to some of this attachment theory but he’s in strong DA mode so I don’t think he’ll receive it. I can see how this off balance between the AP/Avoidant can actually serve to balance each other out as one partner could be an example to the other to be more quiet, calm, loving of self in the AP case or trusting, open and more interdependent in the avoidant case. How did you come around to acceptance of your FA ways? I think you'd have to time it right, if you feel he wouldn't receive it well, don't do it. DAs can show AP traits depending on the dynamic. There's someone I know who is DA and can sometimes pass for FA for this very reason. I've triggered his anxiety on more than one occasion. As for your question, I'm in a bad environment and I don't feel an iota of regret for being this way around these people. In fact, I love that they trigger me because I'm shown what I need to work on. Everything I do is intentional. And it's fun to boot, because there's no "chill" in this place, and I get to satisfy my need for intensity, destruction, and transformation. I get to understand and know myself on a deep level; since I'm not in a relationship for these patterns to become apparent, then I'll just join the most dysfunctional group of people I know and uncover what has been dormant in me for so long. Gaze into the abyss. Counter intuitively, this way, I become more and more secure. When I've reduced a certain amount of anxiety and avoidance, I will move on. As a secure that has had real relationships with only secures, Ive never experienced a push pull. It just goes. Ive only experienced this with a DA guy thats been lingering around this past year and we never got to a commitment. He was in and out, hard chase, then fizzle, vanish for a few weeks to a month, rinse, repeat. I let him linger too long... I cut him off and told him not contact me again unless hes willing to work oh his behavior. Im heavy secure, some DA and 2% anxious. He sure triggered that 2%! LOL. I just didn't act on the anxious feeling with AP style behavior, my secure side kept it check and sat with it alone. Then stumbling upon attachment styles relieved the anxiousness all together. Hmmm, I could be wrong about the push pull with secures. It seems to me though that every relationship has a "come here, go away" aspect. You can't always be together, you have to be apart sometimes and those times don't always match for each partner. But I suppose in secures, it's just not coming from insecurity. And yes, so true. Simply knowing about the attachment styles relieves so much, it's practically half of the journey. Yes, I feel like my ex is the best training ground to uncover my AP tendencies and keep them in check- if I can maintain emotional self-control with him...I’ll say that’s REAL progress. |
|
|
|
Post by epicgum on Oct 30, 2018 4:26:47 GMT
Respectfully, I disagree that the anxious and avoidant tendencies in the FA can be used to "heal" one another. Both of these come from a place of insecurity and fear, if you up the anxiety to combat the avoidant, you dont become more secure, you become more "schizoid".
For all insecure attachment styles, the key to healing (I think!) Is to become more loving, firstly of the self and then also of others.
If you love and trust both yourself and others, then you'll have the courage to trust that people will be there for you consistently (healing anxious), that you'll be able to establish boundaries and will not be overwhelmed (healing avoidant) and that they won't abandon you once you reveal your true self (healing fearful avoidant).
I'm beginning to think that--for me and my exgf at least--a lot of this comes down to a lack of self love. If I really loved myself, I'd be confident that I could reveal my true self and not be abandoned, I would not have to pretend to be perfect all the time, I wouldn't be threatened by criticism or other people pointing out some of my flaws and weaknesses, I'd be assertive enough to ask clearly for the things that I wanted regardless of the context or what those things might be, I wouldn't be threatened by other peoples needs or flaws either because I'd be confident saying "no" or "not right now" to things that I could not do, and I'd be confident that I'd be able to change course later if needed, because I'd be less afraid of failure. Many of these things are true for my exgf as well, who i am beginning to suspect may be FA as well and not AP.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 5:34:23 GMT
Respectfully, I disagree that the anxious and avoidant tendencies in the FA can be used to "heal" one another. Both of these come from a place of insecurity and fear, if you up the anxiety to combat the avoidant, you dont become more secure, you become more "schizoid". For all insecure attachment styles, the key to healing (I think!) Is to become more loving, firstly of the self and then also of others. If you love and trust both yourself and others, then you'll have the courage to trust that people will be there for you consistently (healing anxious), that you'll be able to establish boundaries and will not be overwhelmed (healing avoidant) and that they won't abandon you once you reveal your true self (healing fearful avoidant). I'm beginning to think that--for me and my exgf at least--a lot of this comes down to a lack of self love. If I really loved myself, I'd be confident that I could reveal my true self and not be abandoned, I would not have to pretend to be perfect all the time, I wouldn't be threatened by criticism or other people pointing out some of my flaws and weaknesses, I'd be assertive enough to ask clearly for the things that I wanted regardless of the context or what those things might be, I wouldn't be threatened by other peoples needs or flaws either because I'd be confident saying "no" or "not right now" to things that I could not do, and I'd be confident that I'd be able to change course later if needed, because I'd be less afraid of failure. Many of these things are true for my exgf as well, who i am beginning to suspect may be FA as well and not AP. Well it's more that they can be used to understand one another, which can lead to healing. It's a merging and I feel more and more put together rather than crazily all over the place. But, for example, if I was mainly AP or mainly DA I'd have little to no frame of reference for what the 'other side' looks like. With FA you know what everything looks like. The hardest part is making sense of all the contradiction and conflict within you. I agree that you have to be more loving to yourself first. The rest tends to fall into place without too much effort. But I don't know if trusting that people will be there for you consistently is correct or even smart: actually, many of them won't be there for you, and certainly not in the way you might want them to be. I think what it comes down to is 1) trusting that you'll be okay even if there isn't someone there consistently, and 2) you might not be okay, but it's okay to not be okay, because you'll eventually find out how to be okay. Sometimes people WILL abandon me. That doesn't mean I live my life with that fear in the back of my head and base virtually all my interactions and behavior on it. It means I'm realistic. In relationships I will get hurt, misunderstood, invalidated, broken up with, etc -- shouldn't be the norm in a healthy relationship, but it happens because... humans. But it's not something that should destroy me entirely like it has in the past. I am capable of picking up the pieces. That's how I look at it at least. And to be honest, nobody likes having their weaknesses pointed out, secure or not. It's just that as an insecure, it can feel almost like dying. |
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Oct 30, 2018 8:33:52 GMT
As a secure that has had real relationships with only secures, Ive never experienced a push pull. It just goes. Ive only experienced this with a DA guy thats been lingering around this past year and we never got to a commitment. He was in and out, hard chase, then fizzle, vanish for a few weeks to a month, rinse, repeat. I let him linger too long... I cut him off and told him not contact me again unless hes willing to work oh his behavior. Im heavy secure, some DA and 2% anxious. He sure triggered that 2%! LOL. I just didn't act on the anxious feeling with AP style behavior, my secure side kept it check and sat with it alone. Then stumbling upon attachment styles relieved the anxiousness all together. Hmmm, I could be wrong about the push pull with secures. It seems to me though that every relationship has a "come here, go away" aspect. You can't always be together, you have to be apart sometimes and those times don't always match for each partner. But I suppose in secures, it's just not coming from insecurity. And yes, so true. Simply knowing about the attachment styles relieves so much, it's practically half of the journey. It wasnt a push pull we just have a life and you make time for each other. Just because you always cant be together has nothing to do with a push pull. Most of us cant be with someone all the time, its not how life is.
Those that need to be together every second is needy and they need other things in their life. Most would pull away if someone is up their butt... they are being smothered. I totally turn DA with needy guys and become so turned off there is no going back. I actually turn a bit DA with needy people in general, my DA side is more tolerant of those outside dating though. Neediness is an energy suck for me, literally drains me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 15:06:10 GMT
Yes, I feel like my ex is the best training ground to uncover my AP tendencies and keep them in check- if I can maintain emotional self-control with him...I’ll say that’s REAL progress. LMAO I think I'm making so much progress now, and I don't want to discredit myself because I have, but because I've never actually gotten to the point of being in a relationship, I'm in for a huge surprise when it does happen, and who knows what will actually trigger then. "Training ground" sounds about right. Also, coincidentally fearful-avoidant = FA, but FA can also stand for Forever Alone, and I just think that describes it so perfectly.  It wasnt a push pull we just have a life and you make time for each other. Just because you always cant be together has nothing to do with a push pull. Most of us cant be with someone all the time, its not how life is.
Those that need to be together every second is needy and they need other things in their life. Most would pull away if someone is up their butt... they are being smothered. I totally turn DA with needy guys and become so turned off there is no going back. I actually turn a bit DA with needy people in general, my DA side is more tolerant of those outside dating though. Neediness is an energy suck for me, literally drains me.
Ah, well... it's not just about having a life or being busy, but also having different needs. One can be more introverted than another, and still be pretty secure in their attachment. They just need more time away from their partner. Plus, I don't really think anyone is 100% secure, it's a spectrum, so you'll find insecurity even within secure relationships. And what is needy to one secure isn't needy to another secure. With insecures, the needs are all out of whack and they don't know how to handle it or communicate clearly because their fears get in the way. I don't think we disagree in principle, but in semantics: I choose to call it a very subdued and/or a healthy push-pull while you don't. |
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Oct 31, 2018 0:11:19 GMT
Yes, I feel like my ex is the best training ground to uncover my AP tendencies and keep them in check- if I can maintain emotional self-control with him...I’ll say that’s REAL progress. LMAO I think I'm making so much progress now, and I don't want to discredit myself because I have, but because I've never actually gotten to the point of being in a relationship, I'm in for a huge surprise when it does happen, and who knows what will actually trigger then. "Training ground" sounds about right. Also, coincidentally fearful-avoidant = FA, but FA can also stand for Forever Alone, and I just think that describes it so perfectly. It wasnt a push pull we just have a life and you make time for each other. Just because you always cant be together has nothing to do with a push pull. Most of us cant be with someone all the time, its not how life is.
Those that need to be together every second is needy and they need other things in their life. Most would pull away if someone is up their butt... they are being smothered. I totally turn DA with needy guys and become so turned off there is no going back. I actually turn a bit DA with needy people in general, my DA side is more tolerant of those outside dating though. Neediness is an energy suck for me, literally drains me.
Ah, well... it's not just about having a life or being busy, but also having different needs. One can be more introverted than another, and still be pretty secure in their attachment. They just need more time away from their partner. Plus, I don't really think anyone is 100% secure, it's a spectrum, so you'll find insecurity even within secure relationships. And what is needy to one secure isn't needy to another secure. With insecures, the needs are all out of whack and they don't know how to handle it or communicate clearly because their fears get in the way. I don't think we disagree in principle, but in semantics: I choose to call it a very subdued and/or a healthy push-pull while you don't. Its just my experience as a secure thats dated secures. While it can be true for others its just not my experience. Im in my 40's so Ive been around the block so to speak. haha. |
|
