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Post by Herewegoagain on May 5, 2017 17:18:27 GMT
To be totally transparent, I'm reading a lot of research and personal accounts to help deactivate my attachment system and get over a FA/DA I just split with. I went back and forth in deciding if he was FA or DA...but he is definitely more FA. If he were DA we'd probably still be 'dating' and I would be steadily regressing back to my anxious/preoccupied state. I'm a lot more secure than I was 5, 10 years ago...so I really pushed back on his behavior. But the split has triggered me enough and I'm just trying to regain peace of mind without running back to my 'drug'.
I've read all the attachement books (Jeb's and Amir's), and it seems like FA's may be the hardest to work with or reconcile with, only because they are the most fearful? There's still some small hope in my mind that my 40 year old FA maybe come to his senses in a few weeks and maaaybe his issues aren't so extreme and maybe we can work it things out and compromise and move towards more secure...but man it seems like with FA's it's going to be nothing but short stints of off and on.
Thoughts and experiences?
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Post by Jaeger on May 11, 2017 12:09:38 GMT
In my experience and from what I've read, a DA is the least likely to admit to any personal fault or see a need for change. Almost all of them are therefore unlikely to actively seek a way to change, since they've convinced themselves that they don't NEED emotionally close relationships. A fearful avoidant does want that connection but can't handle it when it actually occurs and will then create distance. Going by that, they should be somewhat more willing to move towards change.
As for which is the hardest to reconcile with, that depends on how you classify 'hardest'.
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Post by annieb on May 11, 2017 12:48:15 GMT
Hello - I am FA female and I would say that it matters, what the circumstances and reasons were that the breakup happened, and the circumstances of meeting, the initial strong feelings and the time and depth of the relationship. As a FA I have stayed in relationships far beyond their expiration date, but that may be because I am female, so this may not be helpful. But more typical of FA, I've gotten into relationships quickly, without doing the proper vetting process.
So I would say if your relationship was slow and steady (1 year and on) and if he continuously chose you, then there is a potential; but if you were more or less the pursuer, then he is probably come up with enough reasons to not see you anymore.
In the midst of being hung up on a DA, but in an effort to move on, I myself dated someone, who was FA and who was very focused on dating me at the beginning, but, when the reality of the relationship hit him about 6 months in, he wanted out, passive aggressively, he broke up with me (made me break up with him by being angry and disinterested). I never asked for answers, or explanation, and just moved right on. We worked together and I maintained my composure, I remained a strong and supportive self for him, because it was also part of my job description. Around 4 months later he was regretful and I am sure would want to get back together if I allowed it.
We are just friends now and I don't want a future with him, but he trusts me more than any person, and this is probably one of the biggest transformations in terms of trust that I've experienced in my life - this man fully trusts me and is not defensive, which makes our interactions much more pleasant.
Anyway to your point, I think first you need to take care of yourself and really focus on your healing, and really forget about him for now. He may come around honestly, and especially if you don't push for answers. Still, the most important person here to worry about and heal is yourself.
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Post by Herewegoagain on May 11, 2017 15:18:40 GMT
Thanks all for the insight. It's been a week since I posted this...at this point I'm not holding my breath. Waiting for the last of my triggered anxieties to fade.
Before I met him I made and exhaustive list of everything I wanted in a man/partner...he checked everything on the list...except The Big 'C' word...ready to commit.
I've made a lot of mistakes with men in the past before...usually involved me building a fantasy, some denial and 'filling in the gaps'. This was one of the few times where I did not imagine, fantasize, glorify or sensationalize in my head anything between us. It was seeing everything you wanted in a partner and everything you could not live with in a partner...all at once, in the same package. The polarity blew my mind and probably will for awhile.
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Post by Natalie on May 20, 2017 0:20:33 GMT
Hi, having read a lot of this site about avoidant and dismissive what your actually talking about is narcissism . I'm not saying that they all have full blown narcissistic personality disorder but they are definitely on the spectrum of a higher amount of narcissism traits than would be considered healthy . Recognise narcissists for what they are and calling them avoidant is dangerous in my opinion and doesn't help the people trying to move on . These people know what they are doing and they choose to continue regardless of the upset they cause to others . Move on from them let them be alone and find all the people out there that do not want to make people they care about miserable due to their own self absorbed ways .
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Post by itsme on May 20, 2017 14:54:54 GMT
Hi, having read a lot of this site about avoidant and dismissive what your actually talking about is narcissism . I'm not saying that they all have full blown narcissistic personality disorder but they are definitely on the spectrum of a higher amount of narcissism traits than would be considered healthy . Recognise narcissists for what they are and calling them avoidant is dangerous in my opinion and doesn't help the people trying to move on . These people know what they are doing and they choose to continue regardless of the upset they cause to others . Move on from them let them be alone and find all the people out there that do not want to make people they care about miserable due to their own self absorbed ways . One, I disagree with you and two...narcissistic tendencies are common with all types of people, but true NarcIsssitic Personality Disorder is rare. |
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Post by gaynxious on May 20, 2017 16:17:56 GMT
Hi, having read a lot of this site about avoidant and dismissive what your actually talking about is narcissism . I'm not saying that they all have full blown narcissistic personality disorder but they are definitely on the spectrum of a higher amount of narcissism traits than would be considered healthy . Recognise narcissists for what they are and calling them avoidant is dangerous in my opinion and doesn't help the people trying to move on . These people know what they are doing and they choose to continue regardless of the upset they cause to others . Move on from them let them be alone and find all the people out there that do not want to make people they care about miserable due to their own self absorbed ways . Attachment theory is a very highly regarded field of psychology. It's exceedingly unlikely that so many professionals in the field would fail to notice if one of the 4 categories was entirely on the narcissistic spectrum. 25-30% of the population is not narcissistic, I doubt society could function at that level. |
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Post by anonymous10 on Jun 15, 2017 15:32:58 GMT
Just to clarify - it is VERY common to see a strong/stronger narcissistic tendencies in avoidants than non-avoidants.
Scientifically.. if you look at the reasons why both narcs and avoidants are the way they are and the reasons a 'false outer persona' is created, ultimately it is to hide/bury feelings of shame and vulnerability. This is the very essence of NPD. Just like the avoidants, narcissists have created maladaptive coping mechanisms to shield against people penetrating their inner core and 'triggering' feelings of shame which are associated with their true, inner child that needed healthy intimacy from caregivers.
Intimacy can only be formed with your TRUE self so many of the same techniques are used to fend of intimacy, whether it be controlling behaviours such as seductive withholding, choosing partners who appeal to the 'fake self' where intimacy is emotionally bounded and controlled, picking friends who don't trigger them and see the self which they prefer, and scientifically, both brains in NPD and avoidants are known to SUBCONSCIOUSLY BLOCK FEELINGS OF PAIN, allowing what is called the 'personality switch' or the lack of empathy which is so typical with relationships of avoidants.
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Post by additionalconfusion on Jun 18, 2017 18:11:09 GMT
Herewegoagain,
Have you tried talking to him about what you observe as fearful avoidant behaviors? Depending on the level of intimacy in your relationship, it could be helpful to open up to him about attachment issues, his and yours, to see if you two can air out what's going on between you two and shed some light on the topic. If he is truly fearful, this may help him see that you will help embrace those fears that he keeps hidden, which would lead to intimacy and growth by way of opening the topic for discussion. Why not recommend one of the books you have read and see if you could read one of those together? You don't mention how you perceive your own attachment style, which might be helpful in trying to understand how to best approach a solution. Also, if you two are broken up, someone must reach out and break the stand-off at some point - any thoughts on how to do this? Or do you expect him to?
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 20, 2018 11:56:39 GMT
Hi, having read a lot of this site about avoidant and dismissive what your actually talking about is narcissism . I'm not saying that they all have full blown narcissistic personality disorder but they are definitely on the spectrum of a higher amount of narcissism traits than would be considered healthy . Recognise narcissists for what they are and calling them avoidant is dangerous in my opinion and doesn't help the people trying to move on . These people know what they are doing and they choose to continue regardless of the upset they cause to others . Move on from them let them be alone and find all the people out there that do not want to make people they care about miserable due to their own self absorbed ways . This is poor "advice" that should be ignored. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 12:19:19 GMT
Hi, having read a lot of this site about avoidant and dismissive what your actually talking about is narcissism . I'm not saying that they all have full blown narcissistic personality disorder but they are definitely on the spectrum of a higher amount of narcissism traits than would be considered healthy . Recognise narcissists for what they are and calling them avoidant is dangerous in my opinion and doesn't help the people trying to move on . These people know what they are doing and they choose to continue regardless of the upset they cause to others . Move on from them let them be alone and find all the people out there that do not want to make people they care about miserable due to their own self absorbed ways . This is poor "advice" that should be ignored. what it is, is an example of anxious paranoia, and the tendency to interpret other's actions in the most negative and detrimental light due to the insecurity triggered in the poster. it happens a lot but this is a more extreme example. the correlation between narcissism and attachment style might disappoint the anxious poster, as well, but there are other posts quoting actual studies here that address that. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 20, 2018 13:22:21 GMT
As a FA I feel the complete opposite of a narcissist. I do not have a grandiose self image, I do not impose myself into people's lives with force, I do not try to control others, I feel high levels of sensitivity and emotions, in the same way an anxious P person does. I do not gaslight, lie or cheat or feel above the law, the opposite in fact. Sure, some avoidants may have some of these traits, but ancious and secure people do as well.
It's like me saying because APs don't always feel in control of their emotions and sometimes get hysterical that they must all suffer from BPD and must be avoided at all costs. A terrible thing to say. I know lots of people have been hurt by avoidants in the past, and it's sad and tragic, but the amount of comments I've read on other websites (that are far less in tune thab the lovely knowledgeable people on this board) saying stuff like Fa's are all narcs or evil or selfish or don't deserve love is just plain mean and upsetting to read. People think we don't feel emotions. That's the problem, we do! As much as an AP does. And it scares us. I've dealt with an NPD before and his way of acting and thinking is so at odds with mine that I see very little crossover apart from the fact that we are both bad relationship material. That's where the similarities end in my opinion. Peace and love
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 13:30:26 GMT
As a FA I feel the complete opposite of a narcissist. I do not have a grandiose self image, I do not impose myself into people's lives with force, I do not try to control others, I feel high levels of sensitivity and emotions, in the same way an anxious P person does. I do not gaslight, lie or cheat or feel above the law, the opposite in fact. Sure, some avoidants may have some of these traits, but ancious and secure people do as well. It's like me saying because APs don't always feel in control of their emotions and sometimes get hysterical that they must all suffer from BPD and must be avoided at all costs. A terrible thing to say. I know lots of people have been hurt by avoidants in the past, and it's sad and tragic, but the amount of comments I've read on other websites (that are far less in tune thab the lovely knowledgeable people on this board) saying stuff like Fa's are all narcs or evil or selfish or don't deserve love is just plain mean and upsetting to read. People think we don't feel emotions. That's the problem, we do! As much as an AP does. And it scares us. I've dealt with an NPD before and his way of acting and thinking is so at odds with mine that I see very little crossover apart from the fact that we are both bad relationship material. That's where the similarities end in my opinion. Peace and love ❤️❤️❤️ as a dismissive i have encountered the very same, and could have written this post myself. this site has had waves of abusive, ignorant posting against avoidance as well. peace and love to you, i get it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 13:38:21 GMT
As a FA I feel the complete opposite of a narcissist. I do not have a grandiose self image, I do not impose myself into people's lives with force, I do not try to control others, I feel high levels of sensitivity and emotions, in the same way an anxious P person does. I do not gaslight, lie or cheat or feel above the law, the opposite in fact. Sure, some avoidants may have some of these traits, but ancious and secure people do as well. It's like me saying because APs don't always feel in control of their emotions and sometimes get hysterical that they must all suffer from BPD and must be avoided at all costs. A terrible thing to say. I know lots of people have been hurt by avoidants in the past, and it's sad and tragic, but the amount of comments I've read on other websites (that are far less in tune thab the lovely knowledgeable people on this board) saying stuff like Fa's are all narcs or evil or selfish or don't deserve love is just plain mean and upsetting to read. People think we don't feel emotions. That's the problem, we do! As much as an AP does. And it scares us. I've dealt with an NPD before and his way of acting and thinking is so at odds with mine that I see very little crossover apart from the fact that we are both bad relationship material. That's where the similarities end in my opinion. Peace and love p.s. you don't have to defend yourself or explain your humanity to any of these dysfunctional posters. their own issues cloud their perception, and that's their ultimate task- to heal and become healthy themselves. don't get caught in it- avoidant bashing is a result of their own attachment injury, and the lack of compassion stems from their own anger and pain. it's ugly, but it's NOT your problem. don't be distracted too much by it, but it's ok to call it out! ❤️ |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 20, 2018 13:50:36 GMT
You are completely right. Hehe.... Andddddd relax
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