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Post by chipper on Nov 26, 2018 15:25:56 GMT
My FA broke up with me for the third time in 14 months 6 weeks ago. She didn't really provide a reason at the time, other than she was very anxious.
We met up in person recently, and she expressed regret. Ending things was the only way she knew how to handle her anxiety.
I've been aware of attachment for most of the second half of our relationship. Before I knew about attachment I was AP, but have since worked to secure.
Once I learned about attachment and realized she was avoidant, I started sharing books and resources with her and encouraging therapy. I should have just gone myself, but didn't, and was never able to convince her to go. She has read a couple books and searched the internet.
What bugs me is that our relationship was awesome in almost every other way. She's my ideal partner in terms of interests, goals, etc. She has supportive friends and family, so I was confident that she could earn secure if she worked at it.
I've started moving on and dating, but it's a small town and we've run into each other a few times already. She's reached out a few times expressing interest in seeing me, too.
We did meet up about a month after the breakup to discuss things: we hadn't really done that.
I sensed regret over the breakup, and sensed that she had been trying to come to terms with her anxiety. But still, no therapy.
I like this person, and don't want to totally shut the door here. I also feel like I wouldn't go back unless she went to therapy and learned to cope with that anxiety, assuming that it will come up again.
Any thoughts, recommendations, questions?
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Post by alexandra on Nov 26, 2018 17:42:57 GMT
I'm sorry that happened. I've been through this. I dated an FA guy for two full cycles over two and a half years. The first one I was AP, the second very close to fully earning secure (which I now am). I changed all my behaviors because I'd done the work to change myself, and it didn't matter what I did. His long-term patterns stayed identical both times.
At least yours is curious enough to start reading about attachment theory. It's a start, but not enough. Mine was not (maybe over time he will be, but at least since I told him to look into the term FA in August, nothing has changed, and we aren't really speaking anymore). My mistake in this situation was I told him in April I wouldn't reconcile unless he scheduled therapy, and various things happened after that so I didn't stick to my boundary. We'd been working towards reconciling for months, and at first he agreed about needing therapy, then when our relationship grew again, he announced he didn't need it, we moved forward anyway, and he ended up telling me he knew our problems at this point are his issues but quickly shut down, dumped me again, and ran away.
He's told me I'm perfect for him and we're not incompatible, and I tend to agree. We have everything in common and want similar long-term things. It was a pretty terrible process for me, though it helped me to heal my attachment style. But he really doesn't know how to be a good partner at this time because he can't trust anyone fully and isn't in tune with himself or his own needs. He ended up telling me he's only attracted to terrible partners so this isn't going to work.
I've found that since I earned secure, I can trust myself and feel if he ever came back truly ready because he'd faced his demons, I'd know the difference. I don't expect it, but the change would be obvious and he'd be consistent, reliable, more mature. I don't expect it to ever happen and think it's too late for us now anyway, but if it did at least I'd know if it was real or just another triggered moment for him. Listen to your gut on this one, and don't go back if she's resisting confronting her issues. Nothing will change if she doesn't/can't/won't.
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Post by cspragu on Nov 26, 2018 18:33:22 GMT
I'm sorry that happened. I've been through this. I dated an FA guy for two full cycles over two and a half years. The first one I was AP, the second very close to fully earning secure (which I now am). I changed all my behaviors because I'd done the work to change myself, and it didn't matter what I did. His long-term patterns stayed identical both times. At least yours is curious enough to start reading about attachment theory. It's a start, but not enough. Mine was not (maybe over time he will be, but at least since I told him to look into the term FA in August, nothing has changed, and we aren't really speaking anymore). My mistake in this situation was I told him in April I wouldn't reconcile unless he scheduled therapy, and various things happened after that so I didn't stick to my boundary. We'd been working towards reconciling for months, and at first he agreed about needing therapy, then when our relationship grew again, he announced he didn't need it, we moved forward anyway, and he ended up telling me he knew our problems at this point are his issues but quickly shut down, dumped me again, and ran away. He's told me I'm perfect for him and we're not incompatible, and I tend to agree. We have everything in common and want similar long-term things. It was a pretty terrible process for me, though it helped me to heal my attachment style. But he really doesn't know how to be a good partner at this time because he can't trust anyone fully and isn't in tune with himself or his own needs. He ended up telling me he's only attracted to terrible partners so this isn't going to work. I've found that since I earned secure, I can trust myself and feel if he ever came back truly ready because he'd faced his demons, I'd know the difference. I don't expect it, but the change would be obvious and he'd be consistent, reliable, more mature. I don't expect it to ever happen and think it's too late for us now anyway, but if it did at least I'd know if it was real or just another triggered moment for him. Listen to your gut on this one, and don't go back if she's resisting confronting her issues. Nothing will change if she doesn't/can't/won't. This somewhat mirrors my experience with my FA ex. We dated for a couple weeks and she tried to break it off(citing fear), only to ask to start over less than 24 hours later. We stayed together for 4 months at which point she suddenly ended it. She hovered around for a few weeks until I cut her off and went no contact...which she didn't like. We saw each other a few weeks later at a Christmas party and she was all over me. We started talking again pretty seriously for about a week and a half at which point she went cold and disappeared. I cut her off again and tried to move on. Learned about attachment Theory and read everything available. Got my\self a therapist and started doing the work on my own AP tendencies She started to hover when we were at the gym(crossfit...its where we met) and started with the "I miss you texts" but would play it cool and casual when confronted I asked her about them. Finally we got back together with her approaching me and apologizing for her behavior and saying that she treated me poorly and needed to go to therapy. She even scheduled a therapy session. However...it became apparent after about a month that nothing had changed and she didn't see much reason to work on anything. We lasted about 4 months again and then she ended it. This whole dance lasted a little over a year and I should've stepped away long before she ended things again. We have incredible chemistry and complement each other in so many ways. But the attachment triggers require two interested and committed parties to work around. And she just isn't there yet. Moral of the story is that nothing changes until they (or both of you) put in the serious work that's required to root out and address your attachment wounds and their associated behaviors. My recommendation would be to move on with your life. She will likely be back at some point but waiting for her wont help your cause and wont teach you any new lessons. See her for who and what she is and accept that she may never be able to give you what you want. Even if she talks about going to therapy when she returns, remember that someone can voice intent until they're blue in the face but actions speak far louder than words. You'll be able to tell in short order whether or not they intend on working towards healing. I cant blame you for keeping the door open for this girl as my door will always remain cracked for the woman I'm referring to in my story. Just keep in mind that circling and re-approaching is their pattern and its unlikely that any significant change has occurred if she approaches you again within the next 6 months(which is likely). If you do decide to reengage...set boundaries and stick to them. She will respect you more in the long run for sticking to your guns and, even more importantly, YOU will respect yourself more in the end.
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Post by chipper on Nov 26, 2018 18:43:21 GMT
Thanks for the posts. It’s really eerie/interesting how similar so many of these stories are.
My boundary has been her getting to therapy. Setting that and respecting that has made it a bit easier on me.
I guess, at this point, it’s about how much I demand that. Cutting off contact unless she seeks therapy seems extreme, but not unreasonable.
On the bright side, I am encouraged by the fact that she seems more willing than most FAs documented here to work on herself by reading about it.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 26, 2018 19:30:57 GMT
That's what made me a big advocate of attachment theory. The patterns, for both the behaviors within each insecure type and for the different couple pairings, really tend to show up as similar in people's descriptions of their situations. You can read all different experiences and they play out similarly if they share the same style (ie AP/DA dance, FA/DA turns FA anxious, etc). So much is universal about it.
In regards to your ex, it's great she's reading about it, but it's just a first step. She's got to want to make changes and heal for herself, not just to satisfy her curiosity on the subject or to win you back. There's a big difference in the effort involved, and I think you'll see it if she's making real changes and not superficial level routine changes. My ex thought he was AP based on something he once read in college and said he never saw how any of that information would be actionable anyway... so reading about it on its own doesn't always create real awareness.
Frankly, it took me 4-5 years after first learning about AP for me to figure out how it was actionable... but if I had anyone around me who knew anything about it I could talk to at the time, it would have been faster.
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Post by cspragu on Nov 26, 2018 19:49:33 GMT
Thanks for the posts. It’s really eerie/interesting how similar so many of these stories are. My boundary has been her getting to therapy. Setting that and respecting that has made it a bit easier on me. I guess, at this point, it’s about how much I demand that. Cutting off contact unless she seeks therapy seems extreme, but not unreasonable. On the bright side, I am encouraged by the fact that she seems more willing than most FAs documented here to work on herself by reading about it. I would definitely say that her willingness to look inward seems promising. But, as you know, the process of dealing with attachment wounds requires us to confront some painful memories and feelings. Since their behavior is fear based, that can obviously be something they will try and avoid when the time comes. I really do wish you the best. Its a heart breaking scenario because often times the chemistry with partners like that is off the charts. That chemistry is usually at least somewhat rooted in the familiarity of attachment dysfunction but I don't know that it ever goes away....even if everyone earns secure. I wouldn't "cut off contact unless she seeks therapy". That seems a bit like manipulation and hopefully It didn't come across as what I did in my story, because it isn't. But you have to set a strong boundary so she understands that you aren't willing to abandon yourself and pander to her. That boundary can simply be that you aren't willing to entertain her romantically or as a priority if she isn't working on herself for the benefit of both her and your relationship. The hard part is walking away if she tests the boundary. And that's exactly where I let myself down in my relationship with an FA. Good Luck man. Keep us posted.
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 28, 2018 1:04:09 GMT
Could it make sense to try some couple's therapy rather than her doing individual therapy? In any case, I don't think you need to cut her off completely unless the situation is harmful to you.
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Post by chipper on Nov 28, 2018 1:44:22 GMT
Could it make sense to try some couple's therapy rather than her doing individual therapy? In any case, I don't think you need to cut her off completely unless the situation is harmful to you. I offered while we were together, and She wasn’t willing to go, unfortunately. I don’t think I’d do that now that we’re no longer a couple.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 28, 2018 1:56:03 GMT
Same. I offered while we were working towards reconciling. He said no, if he went it would be by himself. And never did go.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 28, 2018 7:52:37 GMT
Thanks for the posts. It’s really eerie/interesting how similar so many of these stories are. My boundary has been her getting to therapy. Setting that and respecting that has made it a bit easier on me. I guess, at this point, it’s about how much I demand that. Cutting off contact unless she seeks therapy seems extreme, but not unreasonable. On the bright side, I am encouraged by the fact that she seems more willing than most FAs documented here to work on herself by reading about it. Similar story - mine is documented all over here and my boundary was the same re therapy which never happened despite our breakup and his subsequent reappearance full of undying love....
It has taken me many many years to reach even somewhere near secure and I am sure that therapy isn't a quick fix - but even the willingness to engage for the good of the relationship is important - in fact I think fundamental.
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Post by cspragu on Nov 28, 2018 13:51:06 GMT
Thanks for the posts. It’s really eerie/interesting how similar so many of these stories are. My boundary has been her getting to therapy. Setting that and respecting that has made it a bit easier on me. I guess, at this point, it’s about how much I demand that. Cutting off contact unless she seeks therapy seems extreme, but not unreasonable. On the bright side, I am encouraged by the fact that she seems more willing than most FAs documented here to work on herself by reading about it. Similar story - mine is documented all over here and my boundary was the same re therapy which never happened despite our breakup and his subsequent reappearance full of undying love....
It has taken me many many years to reach even somewhere near secure and I am sure that therapy isn't a quick fix - but even the willingness to engage for the good of the relationship is important - in fact I think fundamental.
I would argue that, at a point, its a necessary and non negotiable step towards rebuilding the trust that is broken as the push pull pattern plays out. Many of us have been in "relationships" with someone that has repeatedly approached us with incredible enthusiasm and with the intent of making it work long term...only to then pull a 180 a few months later and run for the hills. They'll say that you're amazing and that they love you and that you have insane chemistry. Then they'll treat you like the enemy and drop you without warning only to circle back a few weeks or months later. It happens again and again and, often times, the apologies and promises of changed behavior come with it. How many times can that play out before you lose faith in someone? Some of us have been through this process repeatedly with the same person who will acknowledge that they are acting irrationally and that its hurtful. I'm not absolving the normally secure or anxious partner of their role in the dynamic. But, repeated re-approach signals to me that you see value in the other person and you're willing to work through those triggers with each other in an effort to make things work. Going to therapy is a small price to pay to be with someone you care for and who cares for you.
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Post by mrob on Nov 30, 2018 18:01:45 GMT
My experience is sprayed all over these pages, too. I was the 3 times in 14 months person. I cannot describe the terror and internal conflict when that feeling of engulfment comes along.
Like everything, it takes two to tango. It’s easy to say “it’s them” and keep going, but all parties play their part in this.
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Post by chipper on Dec 2, 2018 1:21:48 GMT
I would shut the door on this person and move on with my life. I say this as someone with an FA ex and trying to heal the damage done to me (turning FA myself) from allowing myself to engage in this situation for too long. 3x in 14 months is heartbreaking and a waste of your life. People with these issues don’t change, they just replace you.[/b} I appreciate the suggestion to leave, and I do need to create more space there. Yes, it has been heartbreaking. But I disagree with the bold part. I enjoyed a good part of that 14 months. I don't consider it a waste. I strike for a growth mindset, and so I don't want to believe people with these issues don't change. It's absolutely hard, takes work, etc. But most of the literature indicates that it's possible to change, and the only way to create that change is to believe it can happen. Checkout the book Mindset by Dweck for more on that growth mindset. I read the book after a bad breakup about 6 years ago, so I've had plenty of time to work on it. It's helped me immensely through this.
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Post by chipper on Dec 2, 2018 1:23:23 GMT
My experience is sprayed all over these pages, too. I was the 3 times in 14 months person. I cannot describe the terror and internal conflict when that feeling of engulfment comes along. Like everything, it takes two to tango. It’s easy to say “it’s them” and keep going, but all parties play their part in this. Thanks. I've read your posts. Your awareness is impressive. I know I'm guilty of the tango. I was definitely anxious at the beginning of our relationship, and attachment is probably what's keeping me from completely shutting this door. But I do feel I've grown more secure in the past 9 months I've studied attachment.
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Post by chipper on Dec 21, 2018 5:11:11 GMT
So a bit of an update since I last posted.
We've talked a couple of times a week over the past month. Most of the time, she's initiated. Sometimes our paths have simply crossed.
I set a boundary that I wouldn't sleep with her unless she started therapy. I made that clear, yet she still came on to me at least twice, and I held my ground.
She continues to come up with reasons to not get started with therapy. It seems like every time we talk she's come up with a new objection. We didn't talk for about a week, and tonight, she made it clear that she wouldn't have an answer I wanted.
It's unfortunate because I perceived so much promise in the relationship. Really, I was looking past the commitment issues and thought it be worth working through.
New Years is always a good time to start fresh, right?
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