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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 3:11:20 GMT
oh for sure. it's not about just insecurity, it's this particular mix of this person and their insecurities and how it gels with you. but the most intense connections are always with those with wonky attachment, at least for me. i have many other partners, and many of them are secure - and I started dating at 14! there are only 2 who got to me - one was a self-identified FA (we're still friends and we talked about this very briefly) and the second one was a DA. but with the FA i didn't learn quite so much, though the breakup and all of that was devastating. the DA was really the straw that broke the camel's back.. at some point i just gave up resisting and resigned myself to whatever I was supposed to do to grow and end this BS. in between the FA and DA was a narc who discarded me before we ever had a real relationship. FA triggered a depressive spiral, narc sent me into depression, and DA showed me how lame i was and how i needed to just BE better. but the connections with these three people were always the strongest, albeit in different ways. Yes, a DA will tend to make you see the light w no drawn out formalities! I know mine did!! I am a polar opposite from that ex DA. Truly. He won’t try and I never give up...ugh I should say we respond to and process things completely differently but deep down, I think we are more alike than we realize. I also started dating at 14 but unfortunately I made the mistake of marrying the first guy I dated! Talk about attachment issues... i'm curious faithopelove, why you haven't given up? I haven't read all your stories, but it seemed like it's been going on for a long time like months/years. no judgement, just curious.
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 20, 2018 3:27:03 GMT
Yes, a DA will tend to make you see the light w no drawn out formalities! I know mine did!! I am a polar opposite from that ex DA. Truly. He won’t try and I never give up...ugh I should say we respond to and process things completely differently but deep down, I think we are more alike than we realize. I also started dating at 14 but unfortunately I made the mistake of marrying the first guy I dated! Talk about attachment issues... i'm curious faithopelove, why you haven't given up? I haven't read all your stories, but it seemed like it's been going on for a long time like months/years. no judgement, just curious. 13 months since our break....this guy really got to me!! I’ve never felt loved and accepted by anyone in my life like the way he made he feel...until he shut down. I was always craving that kind of love and affection, since I was a little girl, and when he pulled it away- I couldn’t accept it. It was too great of a loss and felt too cruel. Also, I feel both love and passionate physical attraction for him- I never felt that way for my ex-husband or other guys I dated. I’m having a very hard time accepting this as over- doesn’t help that he’ll respond to me and sees me, but we are intimate at his place and nothing more. It’s bread crumbs and I know it. It’s also hard moving on when he hasn’t moved on- he’s shut down emotionally but stays alone.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 3:34:02 GMT
i'm curious faithopelove , why you haven't given up? I haven't read all your stories, but it seemed like it's been going on for a long time like months/years. no judgement, just curious. 13 months since our break....this guy really got to me!! I’ve never felt loved and accepted by anyone in my life like the way he made he feel...until he shut down. I was always craving that kind of love and affection, since I was a little girl, and when he pulled it away- I couldn’t accept it. It was too great of a loss and felt too cruel. Also, I feel both love and passionate physical attraction for him- I never felt that way for my ex-husband or other guys I dated. I’m having a very hard time accepting this as over- doesn’t help that he’ll respond to me and sees me, but we are intimate at his place and nothing more. It’s bread crumbs and I know it. It’s also hard moving on when he hasn’t moved on- he’s shut down emotionally but stays alone. yea i know that feeling... i did remember once when ex and I were talking about why i'm in such a state, and i said to him that he's changed once we got settled into the relationship, and took everything away from me. when we first got together, oh the love, acceptance, appreciation, affection, and connection we showed each other was so wonderful. then at some point, he deactivated and just took all of that away from me. that's exactly what i said "you gave me everything and that is why we are together, and then when we got together, you just took everything away from me!"
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2018 3:41:58 GMT
Some people may not like the word "disorder" as if it were a disease... I'm not sure that's the best way to think of it. But maybe I'm just being sensitive about it. I completely understand. I guess I view the elements in myself that skew away from secure attachment and create suffering in me as ‘disordered’, which is why I used the term. They feel painful, create unhappiness in me and are not behaviours I wish to continue. They feel like unhealthy behaviours that I would like to shed. Secure attachment seems to be a goal for the majority of people experiencing other forms of attachment style on these forums, so I get the impression other people feel similarly to me. They would like to move away from behaviours that cause them suffering. I do completely understand the lack of control someone with an attachment style other than secure has, I know it’s not a choice. But it seems that the recognition that an attachment style is ‘disordered’ is part of the process of working towards a more secure style and healthier relationships. But you aren't disordered...that is a lie that keeps you trapped in low self esteem the way to becoming secure is not by shedding what we do not want about ourselves, but embracing the whole package...warts and all. Attachment is not something you are born with, it is something that your body/emotions learn in relationship to your caregivers responses to you. Insecure attachments form in insecure relationships with your caregivers...I see them as aspects of myself that are stuck at various young ages with very limited options for responding. I don't think being angry with your stuck parts or limited tools is the answer..the answer for me is to be kind, accepting, curious about myself while also trying to grow up those stuck parts and add more tools. That way, behaviors become choices based on many options (tools). Sending you cyber hugs.
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 20, 2018 3:43:14 GMT
13 months since our break....this guy really got to me!! I’ve never felt loved and accepted by anyone in my life like the way he made he feel...until he shut down. I was always craving that kind of love and affection, since I was a little girl, and when he pulled it away- I couldn’t accept it. It was too great of a loss and felt too cruel. Also, I feel both love and passionate physical attraction for him- I never felt that way for my ex-husband or other guys I dated. I’m having a very hard time accepting this as over- doesn’t help that he’ll respond to me and sees me, but we are intimate at his place and nothing more. It’s bread crumbs and I know it. It’s also hard moving on when he hasn’t moved on- he’s shut down emotionally but stays alone. yea i know that feeling... i did remember once when ex and I were talking about why i'm in such a state, and i said to him that he's changed once we got settled into the relationship, and took everything away from me. when we first got together, oh the love, acceptance, appreciation, affection, and connection we showed each other was so wonderful. then at some point, he deactivated and just took all of that away from me. that's exactly what i said "you gave me everything and that is why we are together, and then when we got together, you just took everything away from me!" Yes, shingingstar, that’s how I feel. That’s exactly how he was- loving, supportive, affectionate...wonderful. Maybe it falls under the category it something seems to good to be true, it probably is! The red flags were there, but he was so wonderful and loving to me that I couldn’t imagine him the way he described himself to his exes- until he changed. It was like a light switch. When I told him he changed he said that WE had changed. I think that reveals his unrealistic expectations- I wasn’t absolutely perfect so his feelings changed and his pre-conceived beliefs about relationships was confirmed. I think he also suffers from depression- he’s extremely defeated and hopeless and rarely leaves the house for anything social.
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Post by mrob on Dec 20, 2018 8:57:23 GMT
I completely understand. I guess I view the elements in myself that skew away from secure attachment and create suffering in me as ‘disordered’, which is why I used the term. They feel painful, create unhappiness in me and are not behaviours I wish to continue. They feel like unhealthy behaviours that I would like to shed. Secure attachment seems to be a goal for the majority of people experiencing other forms of attachment style on these forums, so I get the impression other people feel similarly to me. They would like to move away from behaviours that cause them suffering. I do completely understand the lack of control someone with an attachment style other than secure has, I know it’s not a choice. But it seems that the recognition that an attachment style is ‘disordered’ is part of the process of working towards a more secure style and healthier relationships. But you aren't disordered...that is a lie that keeps you trapped in low self esteem the way to becoming secure is not by shedding what we do not want about ourselves, but embracing the whole package...warts and all. Attachment is not something you are born with, it is something that your body/emotions learn in relationship to your caregivers responses to you. Insecure attachments form in insecure relationships with your caregivers...I see them as aspects of myself that are stuck at various young ages with very limited options for responding. I don't think being angry with your stuck parts or limited tools is the answer..the answer for me is to be kind, accepting, curious about myself while also trying to grow up those stuck parts and add more tools. That way, behaviors become choices based on many options (tools). Sending you cyber hugs. Absolutely! Why would anyone choose to be insecurely attached? Why would anyone choose the madness? This is my first reaction, my knee jerk reaction to life. What I do after that is my responsibility.
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Post by throwaway1713 on Dec 21, 2018 0:18:49 GMT
I completely understand. I guess I view the elements in myself that skew away from secure attachment and create suffering in me as ‘disordered’, which is why I used the term. They feel painful, create unhappiness in me and are not behaviours I wish to continue. They feel like unhealthy behaviours that I would like to shed. Secure attachment seems to be a goal for the majority of people experiencing other forms of attachment style on these forums, so I get the impression other people feel similarly to me. They would like to move away from behaviours that cause them suffering. I do completely understand the lack of control someone with an attachment style other than secure has, I know it’s not a choice. But it seems that the recognition that an attachment style is ‘disordered’ is part of the process of working towards a more secure style and healthier relationships. But you aren't disordered...that is a lie that keeps you trapped in low self esteem the way to becoming secure is not by shedding what we do not want about ourselves, but embracing the whole package...warts and all. Attachment is not something you are born with, it is something that your body/emotions learn in relationship to your caregivers responses to you. Insecure attachments form in insecure relationships with your caregivers...I see them as aspects of myself that are stuck at various young ages with very limited options for responding. I don't think being angry with your stuck parts or limited tools is the answer..the answer for me is to be kind, accepting, curious about myself while also trying to grow up those stuck parts and add more tools. That way, behaviors become choices based on many options (tools). Sending you cyber hugs. Yes, very good point (and thanks for the hugs!). I completely agree with you that acceptance is key. I'm not angry at my behaviours and responses that skew away from secure and my self-esteem is pretty solid. I am largely secure, my relationship with my FA ex resulted in AP tendencies presenting themselves in me as a result of his extreme shut down. I had no idea about attachment styles and didn't know what was going on with him at all. I now see that those tendencies were vestiges of my attachment style(s) presenting themselves, which has been super enlightening. I now understand if I feel that kind of anxiety again I know where it comes from and, like you said, it can be embraced and accepted rather than indulged in or suppressed. My AP tendencies were minimal and were localised to the final couple of months of our relationship as he shut down completely. When he said he wanted us to break up, I let him go immediately. I knew there was something bigger in him than couldn't be argued or reasoned with even though at the time I didn't know what it was (I later discovered all about FA!). I began NC with him straight away. There was no begging, no drama, no chasing, no protest behaviours at all from me. I haven't spoken to him in 9 months, since the day he said he no longer wanted a romantic relationship. The pain and suffering since the break up are mine only, they exist only in my head, caused by unexamined thoughts. The big lesson I've learned from this break up has been exactly that, all the suffering I am experiencing is thought created. It's been a revelation for me, and it was actually my ex who first taught me that lesson! He is supremely wise, but he's not at a stage in his life where he can apply his own wisdom to his situation. I accept that, which is why I've left him to it. This is his journey alone, just like mine is mine alone.
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Post by throwaway1713 on Dec 21, 2018 0:23:17 GMT
Absolutely! Why would anyone choose to be insecurely attached? Why would anyone choose the madness? This is my first reaction, my knee jerk reaction to life. What I do after that is my responsibility. I love that description, 'my knee jerk reaction to life'! That's exactly how those emotions feel, they happen automatically and then choices can be made, as much as choices can be made for that particular person at that particular time.
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 7, 2019 14:23:54 GMT
sissyk and chipper I do wonder about these intense connections. What is that essence that makes them seem so unique, beautiful, and often unprecedented-- something we most want to maintain and continue-- and yet the most difficult ones to maintain and continue. The irony is piercing sometimes. From reading Harville Hendrix, it makes me think sometimes the people we end up in this situation with (it's often a DA-AP or FA-AP matching) there's this subconscious recognition that the connection has the *potential* to be mutually beneficial-- the healing that would occur if both people were mutually moving towards a secure relation together-- they each have what the other needs. It's like finally finding someone who speaks your language. Unfortunately it can seem like that mutually moving towards secure together almost never actually happens, as most people in such a pairing lack the awareness, knowledge, tools, etc. to make it happen. Our subconscious knows it's the holy grail though, if only it could happen. [/quote] In what I’ve read, it seems that FA-AP recognize in each other a need to earn love. The FA feels they don’t deserve it and the AP feels they have to work for it by pouring into the relationship. But that “likeness” is what draws us to each other. We just “get” each other, however we are very polarizing to each other as well. It’s just sad for both of us.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 0:17:52 GMT
sissyk and chipper I do wonder about these intense connections. What is that essence that makes them seem so unique, beautiful, and often unprecedented-- something we most want to maintain and continue-- and yet the most difficult ones to maintain and continue. The irony is piercing sometimes. From reading Harville Hendrix, it makes me think sometimes the people we end up in this situation with (it's often a DA-AP or FA-AP matching) there's this subconscious recognition that the connection has the *potential* to be mutually beneficial-- the healing that would occur if both people were mutually moving towards a secure relation together-- they each have what the other needs. It's like finally finding someone who speaks your language. Unfortunately it can seem like that mutually moving towards secure together almost never actually happens, as most people in such a pairing lack the awareness, knowledge, tools, etc. to make it happen. Our subconscious knows it's the holy grail though, if only it could happen. ”In what I’ve read, it seems that FA-AP recognize in each other a need to earn love. The FA feels they don’t deserve it and the AP feels they have to work for it by pouring into the relationship. But that “likeness” is what draws us to each other. We just “get” each other, however we are very polarizing to each other as well. It’s just sad for both of us.” [/quote] Yes, I do think there is potentially so much that could be learned in the Avoidant/AP pairing, if only the defenses and insecurities could be set aside. One could learn to be more inter-dependent and other more independent. However, I think the reason why you see the Avoidant/ Anxious pairing so often is by default. A secure person would recognize and readily leave a relationship that isn’t working and two avoidants are unlikely to keep the relationship alive. They both let go.
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