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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 6:45:40 GMT
He is completely unaware. He’s told me that he knows he needs therapy but I don’t think he really knows why. Kudos to you for your self awareness and trying to work toward secure. I wish you the best because everyone deserves to feel and accept love. 😊 Thanks, it means a lot. I'm sorry you're going through this. A DA ghosted me years back, and I was triggered AP to the max. Felt like death. You deserve better. This is totally me. I agree with this 100%. And many people have less self-insight and will just act on their sudden feeling that they don't have feelings. Yeah, that's the worst part. There's probably so many DA's and FA's not really questioning their motives, and acting upon what they feel, or don't feel, in the moment. Repeating the same dynamics. Probably making glacial progress throughout their lifetime and jumping from one unfulfilling relationship to another.
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laura
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Post by laura on Jan 11, 2019 16:22:02 GMT
I'm FA. I'm becoming more and more aware of my patterns. I'm now noticing just how avoidant I can be and it's really sad. I will answer honestly: I've never said it to their face. But I have actually went back and forth between having feelings for them and having no feelings for them. When I start to think I'm not into them anymore, I actively and consciously believe that. And it's usually followed by a sense of superiority towards them. I literally don't know my own intentions and feelings at times. It's very conflicting. "I don't know what I want." I'm baffled and I don't trust my own judgment. Subconsciously... that's a different story. Deep down, I still have feelings for them, because when I go back to "okay, I really like them" I'm really invoking what was already there. It doesn't feel like anything new, but more like "wait, what? this is still persisting...?" I detach depending on what's happening and what's triggering me, to prevent myself from experiencing further pain. A snippet from one of my recent journal entries: "But how could I reveal it? How could I reveal my true intentions when I don't even know them myself? When I'm on the fence? When I don't trust? When I'm unsure? When I go back and forth?"Yes. That being said, I think this guy is bad news. It's so nice hearing your perspective. Yes, he says he wants nothing more than a friendship but his actions tell me otherwise. I made the decision to let him go for the time being because not only is he bad for me, I am bad for him. No good can come of this. He and I are like oil & water as well as sugar & water. But, I have a greater awareness. He is so detached. He was sexually abused as a child. And, his last serious relationship 8 years ago ended up with her cheating on him when she went on vacation. I'm about to travel to Mexico with about 100 men and women which has been a huge stressor for him. My sister invited me on this trip. He now calls her "the homewrecker".
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laura
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Post by laura on Jan 11, 2019 16:30:59 GMT
Anyways, I feel like I just hijacked laura’s thread with my own bs so sorry about that. Laura, I do actually believe that FAs can have feelings for you when they say they don’t. My FA boyfriend actually sent me an email about a month after our first breakup. You could just read the confusion in the email. He repeated himself and rambled on. But the gist of it was that he thought I was the most wonderful girlfriend he had had and our connection was incredible. He listed all the things he loved about me and just when I thought he was going to ask to get back together, he said he hoped I could one day understand why he made the decision to break up. Then two days later he DID ask to come back. It seems that FAs want you most when they think you are gone. It’s best that you are in NC now. Try to keep that as long as you can. Just know though that the dynamic between you two is not likely to change even if he were to ask you back. I’m painfully close to accepting that with my own FA. So rather than practice NC to get him to miss you, it may be best to use it as a way to strengthen yourself for a clean break. I know it’s hard when we love them. But maybe “love can ruin a perfectly good relationship” after all. I appreciate your insight and knowing that others experience this too. Yesterday he tried to blame us not getting back together on me because of NC. He said 3 days into NC, he was driving home and was asking himself "what am I doing?" But, I didn't contact him for another week. I told him I didn't contact him because his last words to me were "you just keep setting yourself up for failure and dissappointment..." When I said this to him, he responded, "well, you do! We're not getting back together because of how you've treated me since the breakup!" Ummmm...ok. Wow....
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 11, 2019 18:29:38 GMT
It seems to be typical that an FA/DA deflects and shifts blame. My FA blames me solely for the failure of our relationship due to my “barrage of insecurities” and “constant need for validation” (he broke up with me three times in six months...of course I’m insecure in the relationship!!). Your ex’s blame on you for you going NC seems to be a fish to see how desperately you protest...which will satisfy HIS need for validation. Don’t let him derail you....NC IS the right course of action. And I’m learning also that it is a case of oil/water and sugar/water. Unfortunately, the dynamic is a much greater issue than our desire to fix it. And by the way, my ex also was cheated on in his last relationship. He claims to have deeply loved her. I’m paying the price although I would never do that. Sounds definitely like he is triggered by your upcoming trip.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 18:40:30 GMT
I'm FA. I'm becoming more and more aware of my patterns. I'm now noticing just how avoidant I can be and it's really sad. I will answer honestly: I've never said it to their face. But I have actually went back and forth between having feelings for them and having no feelings for them. When I start to think I'm not into them anymore, I actively and consciously believe that. And it's usually followed by a sense of superiority towards them. I literally don't know my own intentions and feelings at times. It's very conflicting. "I don't know what I want." I'm baffled and I don't trust my own judgment. Subconsciously... that's a different story. Deep down, I still have feelings for them, because when I go back to "okay, I really like them" I'm really invoking what was already there. It doesn't feel like anything new, but more like "wait, what? this is still persisting...?" I detach depending on what's happening and what's triggering me, to prevent myself from experiencing further pain. A snippet from one of my recent journal entries: "But how could I reveal it? How could I reveal my true intentions when I don't even know them myself? When I'm on the fence? When I don't trust? When I'm unsure? When I go back and forth?"Yes. That being said, I think this guy is bad news. It's so nice hearing your perspective. Yes, he says he wants nothing more than a friendship but his actions tell me otherwise. I made the decision to let him go for the time being because not only is he bad for me, I am bad for him. No good can come of this. He and I are like oil & water as well as sugar & water. But, I have a greater awareness. He is so detached. He was sexually abused as a child. And, his last serious relationship 8 years ago ended up with her cheating on him when she went on vacation. I'm about to travel to Mexico with about 100 men and women which has been a huge stressor for him. My sister invited me on this trip. He now calls her "the homewrecker". His actions tell you otherwise? Really? I am going to go out on a limb here and say you are just as dysfunctional as he is and that is where you're getting confused. From the outside, this looks like a fight between toddlers and I am not saying that to be rude. I'm acknowledging that all this attachment conflict is very old stuff rooted in patterns learned in childhood, and how it plays out can be very child-like. Kind of tantrum-y. Now, I totally understand the anger and disgust, as I just went through a bout of that breaking up with an AP partner. Just remember, like I have to- you are engaged with this because you have your own issues that keep you engaging. It ends when you square yourself away and patch up the holes and rifts in your own thinking and behavior. Any of us railing against a frustrating partner are there because we frustrate OURSELVES, that's the way I see it. The tendency to only see what the other person is doing that is outlandish is common for all of us until we see clearly that we are there, doing the dance. I'm speaking from my own experience, and have been in the blame game before. Early on. But these days, I know that if my struggle involves another person I have to look at what I'm struggling against- is it in me? Does another person really have that much power over me? The answer, is another person only has as much power over me and my life and my happiness as I give them. I've got to deal with me first. I'm still resentful about things I endured and experienced in my last relationship but for me, I feel a lot of positivity about getting more clear on what is important to me and how to have better boundaries No person is worth this kind of drama. Spoken like a true DA, I know. But, maybe it's true. This kind of thing doesn't seem worth the energy it takes to endure what doesn't seem to offer much in the way of intimacy, respect, care, reasonableness, stability... what is of real value here? I know that AP and DA have VERY different routes to freedom but it starts squarely in the center of us as individuals, no matter the attachment style. Hope this is helpful, my apologies if not.
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laura
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Post by laura on Jan 11, 2019 19:19:26 GMT
It's so nice hearing your perspective. Yes, he says he wants nothing more than a friendship but his actions tell me otherwise. I made the decision to let him go for the time being because not only is he bad for me, I am bad for him. No good can come of this. He and I are like oil & water as well as sugar & water. But, I have a greater awareness. He is so detached. He was sexually abused as a child. And, his last serious relationship 8 years ago ended up with her cheating on him when she went on vacation. I'm about to travel to Mexico with about 100 men and women which has been a huge stressor for him. My sister invited me on this trip. He now calls her "the homewrecker". His actions tell you otherwise? Really? I am going to go out on a limb here and say you are just as dysfunctional as he is and that is where you're getting confused. From the outside, this looks like a fight between toddlers and I am not saying that to be rude. I'm acknowledging that all this attachment conflict is very old stuff rooted in patterns learned in childhood, and how it plays out can be very child-like. Kind of tantrum-y. Now, I totally understand the anger and disgust, as I just went through a bout of that breaking up with an AP partner. Just remember, like I have to- you are engaged with this because you have your own issues that keep you engaging. It ends when you square yourself away and patch up the holes and rifts in your own thinking and behavior. Any of us railing against a frustrating partner are there because we frustrate OURSELVES, that's the way I see it. The tendency to only see what the other person is doing that is outlandish is common for all of us until we see clearly that we are there, doing the dance. I'm speaking from my own experience, and have been in the blame game before. Early on. But these days, I know that if my struggle involves another person I have to look at what I'm struggling against- is it in me? Does another person really have that much power over me? The answer, is another person only has as much power over me and my life and my happiness as I give them. I've got to deal with me first. I'm still resentful about things I endured and experienced in my last relationship but for me, I feel a lot of positivity about getting more clear on what is important to me and how to have better boundaries No person is worth this kind of drama. Spoken like a true DA, I know. But, maybe it's true. This kind of thing doesn't seem worth the energy it takes to endure what doesn't seem to offer much in the way of intimacy, respect, care, reasonableness, stability... what is of real value here? I know that AP and DA have VERY different routes to freedom but it starts squarely in the center of us as individuals, no matter the attachment style. Hope this is helpful, my apologies if not. When I said his actions tell me otherwise, I meant I can see how torn he is. I see how his words and actions are misaligned. He wants friendship, but says nasty things. He wants friendship, but blames me for not getting back together because I went no contact. In no way do I think he wants a relationship or is capable of being a friend to me. And, your response is helpful. Today I reached out to an old friend who I know is a sponsor for AA. Although I'm not an alcoholic, I think I could use some guidance. I've always known something was different about me. But, this experience has really opened my eyes to just how dysfunctional I am. I need help.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 19:24:01 GMT
It's so nice hearing your perspective. Yes, he says he wants nothing more than a friendship but his actions tell me otherwise. I made the decision to let him go for the time being because not only is he bad for me, I am bad for him. No good can come of this. He and I are like oil & water as well as sugar & water. But, I have a greater awareness. He is so detached. He was sexually abused as a child. And, his last serious relationship 8 years ago ended up with her cheating on him when she went on vacation. I'm about to travel to Mexico with about 100 men and women which has been a huge stressor for him. My sister invited me on this trip. He now calls her "the homewrecker". I'd say don't look at his actions. Look at the patterns. Those are the most telling. But even more than that, look at the progression. Has there been any improvement on the major problem areas? Or is it worse and worse? Sounds pretty dysfunctional to me. Patch up what you can, from your end. That means not focusing on him so much. I feel I grew so much after I did that and came back to myself.
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Post by mrob on Jan 11, 2019 20:13:56 GMT
That’s the only way I stayed married for seven years. Shove the whole lot down and don’t trust anything that’s going on inside.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 21:52:55 GMT
That’s the only way I stayed married for seven years. Shove the whole lot down and don’t trust anything that’s going on inside. You're implying I should trust it then? That my body is correct? I think it is correct but not in the way I previously assumed. It's correct in telling me "it's not safe" but not necessarily because I don't like that person or that person is bad (these could be true nonetheless), but because I do not have the inner tools to appropriately/securely deal with the dynamic. For example, I noticed I'm less guarded now, and coincidentally I have better boundaries.
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Post by mrob on Jan 11, 2019 23:42:22 GMT
That’s the only way I stayed married for seven years. Shove the whole lot down and don’t trust anything that’s going on inside. You're implying I should trust it then? That my body is correct? I think it is correct but not in the way I previously assumed. It's correct in telling me "it's not safe" but not necessarily because I don't like that person or that person is bad (these could be true nonetheless), but because I do not have the inner tools to appropriately/securely deal with the dynamic. For example, I noticed I'm less guarded now, and coincidentally I have better boundaries. I believe the only way to have functional relationships is to work towards secure. Part of that is therapy, and part is not trusting “gut instinct”. My default gut instinct is not to trust anyone if they can have an effect on me, and to pull away when things get too intimate. If I trust that, I’m headed for damaging mutual pain every time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 23:50:27 GMT
I believe the only way to have functional relationships is to work towards secure. Part of that is therapy, and part is not trusting “gut instinct”. My default gut instinct is not to trust anyone if they can have an effect on me, and to pull away when things get too intimate. If I trust that, I’m headed for damaging mutual pain every time. Ah, so you meant it the other way. That you could only stay in a (what I assume, decent) marriage because you didn't listen to your internals going all "yeah, you need to run". Correct me if I'm wrong. And yes, I can agree to that.
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Post by mrob on Jan 11, 2019 23:56:00 GMT
Yes, that’s right. But that doesn’t work on its own. If it’s not accompanied with some sort of growth, there will be a point where the anxiety will get so much that you’ll run. It was selling my house that ultimately made me run. Married, daughter, shifting jobs to try to please, but that was one thing I wouldn’t do.
Pain is a great motivator. Repeat pain is an even bigger one. Without it, I wouldn’t even be looking at this.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 13, 2019 1:08:55 GMT
You're implying I should trust it then? That my body is correct? I think it is correct but not in the way I previously assumed. It's correct in telling me "it's not safe" but not necessarily because I don't like that person or that person is bad (these could be true nonetheless), but because I do not have the inner tools to appropriately/securely deal with the dynamic. For example, I noticed I'm less guarded now, and coincidentally I have better boundaries. I believe the only way to have functional relationships is to work towards secure. Part of that is therapy, and part is not trusting “gut instinct”. My default gut instinct is not to trust anyone if they can have an effect on me, and to pull away when things get too intimate. If I trust that, I’m headed for damaging mutual pain every time. mrob - Yes, when your instincts and patterns have been influenced in a harmful or negative way it’s best to not trust your instincts and instead create new neuro-pathways that eventually will become the healthier and more familiar way. My therapist was always talking about forming new neuro-pathways in the brain and going off that beaten trail. She said I may not have been there yet but at least I can be aware of the yellow hazard tape around the familiar, beaten path. Stop. Then make a different choice. It’s very conscious.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 13, 2019 1:11:36 GMT
Yes, that’s right. But that doesn’t work on its own. If it’s not accompanied with some sort of growth, there will be a point where the anxiety will get so much that you’ll run. It was selling my house that ultimately made me run. Married, daughter, shifting jobs to try to please, but that was one thing I wouldn’t do. Pain is a great motivator. Repeat pain is an even bigger one. Without it, I wouldn’t even be looking at this. I would think it’s hard for those w an instinct to not trust and instead to run to ever get married in the first place? What is the motivator? Is that desire to connect felt enough to overpower the need to run?
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Post by mrob on Jan 15, 2019 0:48:32 GMT
I was able to control what I now know was my activation. I know my feelings are unreasonable, but I do want companionship. That’s the paradox.
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