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Post by ocarina on Jan 11, 2019 19:46:10 GMT
I know there are very few DAs lurking here - but I shall put this into the ether in case.....
Do any of you have - or have you had in the past, a problem with being vulnerable? In relationships and in life in general.
I suspect it's one of the core traits - the feeling that we have life sorted, that we're self sufficient, invulnerable, better off alone, nobody will understand, we need nobody. I've certainly felt that way for a lot of my life and have really felt true intimacy for the first time by being real - ie honest in a kind of radical way, firstly with close and trusted friends and now more and more in my life in general.
I have a fairly high pressure professional job - with a lot of responsibility and am considered an expert in my field and also have a crippling fear of failure. It's shaped my life (now that I can see it). I am so relived to find that as I get older, I am more willing to make mistakes, to admit I don't know. It's liberating and it creates trust and intimacy.
Yesterday I had a situation at work where I felt uneasy around a clinical judgement - I am surrounded by people who thrive on knowing more than their clients/ patients and where mistakes are really frowned on or covered over. I spent yesterday evening mulling the facts and ended up feeling increasingly uncomfortable around the case - and eventually phoned the client to discuss the possibility that yesterdays decision (on the basis of evidence that came to light later) may not be the correct one. It was SUCH a relief to be able to do this - in the past I would have rationalised, swept it under the carpet - it was so liberating. Surprisingly it was also appreciated by the client and I feel we have a better working relationship as a result.
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Post by mickey on Jan 12, 2019 23:55:54 GMT
I know there are very few DAs lurking here - but I shall put this into the ether in case.....
Do any of you have - or have you had in the past, a problem with being vulnerable? In relationships and in life in general.
I suspect it's one of the core traits - the feeling that we have life sorted, that we're self sufficient, invulnerable, better off alone, nobody will understand, we need nobody. I've certainly felt that way for a lot of my life and have really felt true intimacy for the first time by being real - ie honest in a kind of radical way, firstly with close and trusted friends and now more and more in my life in general.
I have a fairly high pressure professional job - with a lot of responsibility and am considered an expert in my field and also have a crippling fear of failure. It's shaped my life (now that I can see it). I am so relived to find that as I get older, I am more willing to make mistakes, to admit I don't know. It's liberating and it creates trust and intimacy.
Yesterday I had a situation at work where I felt uneasy around a clinical judgement - I am surrounded by people who thrive on knowing more than their clients/ patients and where mistakes are really frowned on or covered over. I spent yesterday evening mulling the facts and ended up feeling increasingly uncomfortable around the case - and eventually phoned the client to discuss the possibility that yesterdays decision (on the basis of evidence that came to light later) may not be the correct one. It was SUCH a relief to be able to do this - in the past I would have rationalised, swept it under the carpet - it was so liberating. Surprisingly it was also appreciated by the client and I feel we have a better working relationship as a result.
Hi ocarina, I had left my account but was reading and was curious about this. I would think , for me personally; this would be more an ethical choice, rather than a choice of vulnerability. I'm sure people could see it differently. High powered positions (speaking of people you may be surrounded by?) in medicine sometimes have a higher population of narcissisticly inclined people, I know I have met more than a few. Here is an article that addresses the concept of medical narcissism: scholarblogs.emory.edu/sick/2014/02/25/medicine-breeding-grounds-for-narcissism/I'm speculating that your environment could contribute to some conditioning in you, to go along with a "we make no mistake " culture. Along with conditioning from your childhood environment and a sense of perfectionism or fear of failure. Some of us have that more than others. Especially if one has a higher degree of anxiety or low self esteem, I think. I began work in my 20's in a field where I was a bit of an underdog as a female, with leadership over a group of men that I kind of had to earn respect and acceptance. For whatever reason, I found the best way to do that was humility and the quick admission of mistakes, as there was a steep learning curve for me and I found it to be the least likely way to humiliate myself- to be reasonable. I did go on to develop a great rapport with my team. It was a cool chapter of my life and an accomplishment I always felt good about. It required a lot of internal tenacity and working through the pressure to cave to the guy culture or to make things easier (?) on myself by engaging in people pleasing, as well. I found that learning experience to be very liberating and it has not been difficult for me since then to admit mistakes generally, just because I think it's realistic that people make mistakes and it's easier to cope with the admission than the cover up. It takes less energy, and it's more rational. I believe that every individual will have various conditions in their upbringing that will influence their comfort level around this. And of course there are other factors like innate temperament, etc. So many factors. So, while I don't see it quite the same way as you seem to as an (emotionally?) vulnerable thing to do, I can see where trust and rapport with a client based on ethical honesty would be a rewarding accomplishment! Well done, as it takes a strong sense of self and autonomy to do what you believe is the right thing to do even if it is counter-cultural. |
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 16, 2019 13:17:49 GMT
I know there are very few DAs lurking here - but I shall put this into the ether in case.....
Do any of you have - or have you had in the past, a problem with being vulnerable? In relationships and in life in general.
Yes, both in relationships and life in general. It was moreso in the past, and having peeled off several layers there is still some of this remaining. I feel more comfortable connecting with others as my best self than from a position of need. I suspect it's one of the core traits - the feeling that we have life sorted, that we're self sufficient, invulnerable, better off alone, nobody will understand, we need nobody. I've certainly felt that way for a lot of my life and have really felt true intimacy for the first time by being real - ie honest in a kind of radical way, firstly with close and trusted friends and now more and more in my life in general.
I have a fairly high pressure professional job - with a lot of responsibility and am considered an expert in my field and also have a crippling fear of failure. It's shaped my life (now that I can see it). I am so relived to find that as I get older, I am more willing to make mistakes, to admit I don't know. It's liberating and it creates trust and intimacy. Close friends are easiest for me to show my soft belly to. Practical help is easier to ask for than emothional support. Emotional support offered is easier to accept than asking for emotional support. I have so much self support logistics in place that it is rare I find myself in need. I have a much easier time paying for help than asking a friend, but I have recognised the limits to my energy and hired a cleaner. When I had the flu last time, I ordered groceries and my cleaner was scheduled to come anyway. I also always have some food in my pantry, knowing I live alone in case I fall ill. I keep some savings accessible for emergencies. That said, when my father died, my best friend sat with my every week to talk and we connected more deeply over that season. I really value the experience. Another friend offered me good support after my last relationship ended and when I was getting therapy for my DA stuff. Last year, I did share a lot about my childhood here on this forum and also with some newer friends, which felt very vulnerable for me. It took courage. For practical issues, I am happy with my ability to ask for help. I have asked for and received help with relocations and putting together furniture. And when I throw larger dinners parties I feel comfortable asking a friend or two to help cut veggies. I had and to some extent still have some inner fear that people will use my vulnerabilities against me, and that I need to be better than average to make it in the world. Not perfect, but good and skilled. Definitely not needy or underperforming. I am getting better at this both because of practice and age and because my career is more secure. I am also far more aware of my issues and can pause the process as it shows up. For example, if I made a mistake, or receive critical feedback, I know the pang connects to old shame and the experience feels more painful in the moment than in needs to. Instead of letting my thoughts be influenced my the emotion, I sit with the pain and reflect on it. I know from experience that most of the time, the consequenses are not nearly what I would imagine. I can talk about these things with my best friend who is a worrier and overthinker so we can recognize some things. Yesterday I had a situation at work where I felt uneasy around a clinical judgement - I am surrounded by people who thrive on knowing more than their clients/ patients and where mistakes are really frowned on or covered over. I spent yesterday evening mulling the facts and ended up feeling increasingly uncomfortable around the case - and eventually phoned the client to discuss the possibility that yesterdays decision (on the basis of evidence that came to light later) may not be the correct one. It was SUCH a relief to be able to do this - in the past I would have rationalised, swept it under the carpet - it was so liberating. Surprisingly it was also appreciated by the client and I feel we have a better working relationship as a result.
That is beautiful, it sounds very unburdening. |
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Post by ocarina on Jan 16, 2019 22:40:35 GMT
Thanks Goldilocks - I can relate to a lot of what you describe and I can also see how my intense self reliance has kept me separate in a lot of relationships and friendships over the years.
It's not an intentional thing but I come across as invulnerable, which in turn attract partners who are looking for someone strong and clear headed to look up to - which leaves no room for me to be human - or if I am, they seem to think they've been somehow miss sold!
I'm much better at asking for practical help too - but when I do connect emotionally with someone trustworthy it's a really wonderful experience and I've gradually began to actually cultivate this kind of closeness. Of course it works both ways since it gives the other person the opportunity to show up in the same way.
Many of my friends are also avoidants - in the past they were a safe bet as they'd ask nothing of me or vice versa but as I've worked on this, I can now recognise real intimacy and learn to look for friends who are secure and able to give and take in this way.
These are old patterns though and if I'm not careful I find myself slipping back into my protective shell without even noticing. It's been interesting around my ex partner (DA) as we're both on and off playing with this stuff - when the vulnerability on both sides coincides it's really touching, but all too often one or other of us is triggered and the walls go up. My mission is to keep coming back to awareness of the patterns and notice the reactivity and allow it to be without following it down the rabbit hole.
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Post by ocarina on Jan 20, 2019 14:30:50 GMT
To add - from what I know, the typical DA sees vulnerability as a weakness and will go a long way to avoid it. This quote appeared in my inbox today - very apt I thought:
"The gentleness with which we would hold a young child is clearly not a sign of our weakness. The sensitivity with which we would listen to a friend who had suffered from loss, would likewise not be judged as weakness. Acting with humility in acknowledging any part we might have played in contributing to the suffering of others, would likewise, hopefully, not be considered as an indication of weakness.
That which can sometimes be seen as weakness is in fact strength. Conversely, hiding behind a display of invulnerability; refusing to ask for help when it is clear that we need it; being unable to empathize when faced with the pain of others, these are in fact forms of weakness and would benefit from careful attention."
This is something I'm attending to.
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 29, 2019 19:00:44 GMT
Just wanted to mention that right after reading your posts, I was in a meeting where some top level ladies admitted mistakes. It was very much opening up the channels of communication and showed them to be very human.
Even in a professional setting, this relaxes and opens people up.
With my closest friends, breakups, premature babies, aging parents and deaths in the family have brought us closer together. Simply feeling each other's hurt and being there for one another. Knowing my friend has been there for me is an opening of deeper channels of friendship.
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Post by ocarina on Jan 30, 2019 17:09:41 GMT
Just wanted to mention that right after reading your posts, I was in a meeting where some top level ladies admitted mistakes. It was very much opening up the channels of communication and showed them to be very human. Even in a professional setting, this relaxes and opens people up. With my closest friends, breakups, premature babies, aging parents and deaths in the family have brought us closer together. Simply feeling each other's hurt and being there for one another. Knowing my friend has been there for me is an opening of deeper channels of friendship. goldilocks - I think that being real helps foster connection as it allows vulnerability and humanity in both parties.
I don't think in my case it's a kind of narcissistic wanting to appear right kind of thing - more a self protection from needing anyone. There's also a toxic kind of expectation in some professions that we're all knowing all powerful beings - I think it's societal rather than personal and it does encourage a kind of individualism that avoids intimacy. Part of avoiding intimacy in medicine in particular is because a lot of the time a slight emotional detachment may make one a better clinician, more clear sighted and better able to make decisions.
Maybe I'm wrong but too much empathy can be a real handicap.
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