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Post by fairysalad on Feb 6, 2019 11:13:30 GMT
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Post by ocarina on Feb 6, 2019 13:17:16 GMT
Hello fairysalad and welcome - your confusion and pain really come out in your post - it sounds as though you've had a tough few years and have a lot of mourning to do. It's a really difficult dynamic to live with - the cognitive dissonance that arises in a relationship when a loved one behaves erratically and in a way that doesn't make sense, is really maddening - the flip between intimacy and closeness and a dismission of these feeling by partner sounds like a kind of gaslighting - but it can be terribly difficult to let go when the highs and closeness feel so good. What you feel at the moment is a natural result of what you've been through - and I think the most important thing you can do for the moment is re learn your love for yourself. This doesn't mean that your partner is the baddy here - since as you said, you stayed by choice and his behaviour was likely to be subconscious in origin, but it is really really important to learn to put yourself first - your emotional and physical safety are so important that when either is damaged, it's damaging to everyone - yourself and, through building resentment, through tolerance of what should not be accepted, through lowering of standards and brewing anger, the relationship and your partner too. I think that at this stage the temptation is to analyse your partner - but it's a distraction from the real work which is to learn to sit compassionately with your own pain - taking it each day at a time, until, somewhere down the line, you reach a place of clarity and contentment. It feels so bad at the moment that I understand you'll want to do anything to avoid feeling - and sometimes that avoidance is veiled in stories told to yourself about how it was your fault, if only stories, I should have.... stories. See them for what they are - tricks of your mind - and if you possibly can, learn to sit with the real pain and grief with a kindness to yourself and your reality. Not sure if it will resonate or make any sense, please keep posting if it helps to share. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 13:38:41 GMT
Forgive yourself. Nobody is perfect, nobody enters a relationship with all the skills and understanding to handle everything as their best self. We all get triggered, and our behavior then is painful to us, and to others. Forgive yourself, not just because you need to stand by yourself and it beat yourself up like he did... but because that's the only way to not abandon yourself further. This post is full of flags for narcissism, and if you want to understand how you've been manipulated you may want to look into that. If it rings true, follow up with learning about what made you vulnerable to the manipulations and tactics he used to control you. It's true you have a part in this, but it may not be the part you think. He found some weaknesses and soft sport in you that you need to detect and protect, build up and heal. You are going to be ok and this will pass. Do remember that, and as ocarina wrote, be alert to the stories you tell yourself because they are just stories and will keep you stuck. This dynamic was two unhealthy people reacting and mixing toxically. Nothing more and nothing less. We all have to grow in ways, we all are human. You aren't uniquely messed up. It's crappy, all of it. But it's not the be all and end all of your life, you can move forward and be better for the experience, believe it or not. It takes time andnwork but you will recover. |
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Post by fairysalad on Feb 6, 2019 14:23:39 GMT
Thank you both for replying, from the bottom of my heart. I cried reading your responses, but not in a negative way, if that makes any sense? I was so expecting the response that it is true that I was entirely to blame. I was ready for that, and ready to take it on board. No matter how painful it felt, I was ready to hear the ways in which I had failed and attacked, and to learn and improve from that feedback. I didn't expect my weight to be lifted a little, and feel compassion and understanding. Even after having read your responses I wonder if I told the story wrong, because you don't understand just how terrible I was. That if I told it right you would understand how it is me to blame.
I'm not certain he is a narcissist. Honestly. Our good times felt so genuine, and his positive regard for me when present felt so real. It is something I struggle to understand, that someone can make you feel awful about something as small as buying a can of soup (yes, this happened), but also lift you up and tell you they are proud of who you are and all you do. I will look into it further.
I am definitely stuck in the story telling. And on trying to analyse and understand his behaviour. For every unconscious, cruel action there was one that was giving and kind. I am fairly self aware, and can easily accept fault or see where I was kind and giving. But after three years, I have to admit to having no clue about the things that make him sad, or scared, or joyful. I often asked him to let me be an equal in the relationship. That I valued him looking after me, but I didn't like to feel helpless. I have looked after myself from around 14 years old, I was alright. I appreciated all the things he did, but they made me feel childlike and inadequate if I couldn't return the favour once in a while. Does that make sense, or does it sound mean and melodramatic? He told me at the end he was struggling with my behaviour, and I asked how was I to know, when he never let me know anything was hard for him? That I had asked him to be open if I annoyed him, because without telling me there was no way I could accommodate him.
You are both right that I need to focus on my own healing. I am trying. I think it will be a while before I can drop trying to understand. But I am reflecting, and writing, and spending time with friends. Reclaiming the things I enjoy without them being judged. I make myself go out, but also make myself stay in and sit with my feelings. Today is a sit with feelings day, which I guess prompted me to finally reach out on here.
I guess right now I don't know how to stop blaming myself. My triggered behaviours were so loud and ugly, in the face of his quiet, logical calm.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 14:46:47 GMT
Thank you both for replying, from the bottom of my heart. I cried reading your responses, but not in a negative way, if that makes any sense? I was so expecting the response that it is true that I was entirely to blame. I was ready for that, and ready to take it on board. No matter how painful it felt, I was ready to hear the ways in which I had failed and attacked, and to learn and improve from that feedback. I didn't expect my weight to be lifted a little, and feel compassion and understanding. Even after having read your responses I wonder if I told the story wrong, because you don't understand just how terrible I was. That if I told it right you would understand how it is me to blame. I'm not certain he is a narcissist. Honestly. Our good times felt so genuine, and his positive regard for me when present felt so real. It is something I struggle to understand, that someone can make you feel awful about something as small as buying a can of soup (yes, this happened), but also lift you up and tell you they are proud of who you are and all you do. I will look into it further. I am definitely stuck in the story telling. And on trying to analyse and understand his behaviour. For every unconscious, cruel action there was one that was giving and kind. I am fairly self aware, and can easily accept fault or see where I was kind and giving. But after three years, I have to admit to having no clue about the things that make him sad, or scared, or joyful. I often asked him to let me be an equal in the relationship. That I valued him looking after me, but I didn't like to feel helpless. I have looked after myself from around 14 years old, I was alright. I appreciated all the things he did, but they made me feel childlike and inadequate if I couldn't return the favour once in a while. Does that make sense, or does it sound mean and melodramatic? He told me at the end he was struggling with my behaviour, and I asked how was I to know, when he never let me know anything was hard for him? That I had asked him to be open if I annoyed him, because without telling me there was no way I could accommodate him. You are both right that I need to focus on my own healing. I am trying. I think it will be a while before I can drop trying to understand. But I am reflecting, and writing, and spending time with friends. Reclaiming the things I enjoy without them being judged. I make myself go out, but also make myself stay in and sit with my feelings. Today is a sit with feelings day, which I guess prompted me to finally reach out on here. I guess right now I don't know how to stop blaming myself. My triggered behaviours were so loud and ugly, in the face of his quiet, logical calm. ------------------------------ All relationships are dynamics- not one sided. It's a pattern of two people flowing together for good or for ill. There are two players and two parts. If there is dysfunction unaddressed it will escalate over time. Narcissism occurs on a spectrum and there are different manifestations of it. A narcissist can be demeaning and incredibly self centered without being sociopathic and intentionally cruel. Not all narcissists are pathological. However, the selfish ways in which they protect their fragile self can be very destructive even if they are not consciously intentional in the pain they inflict. At any rate, the experience can show you where you were complicit or vulnerable, but you have to let go of self defeating ideas in order to be able to see clearly. You've made mistakes in judgement, but why? Most likely because of some conditioning you've received and the only way out for any of us is to question the conditioning and recondition ourselves. I think it is helpful to let go of some of the emotional habits and reactions and look at it with a more objective eye- more reasonable assessment that has this in the perspective of two people acting out, not just one. There are lots of great resources for healing from narcissistic abuse, which is what it is when someone is demeaning you while also claiming to love you. (actions and words- should MATCH.) That creates pain and confusion and reactivity, and anxiety. It doesn't make sense, and all kinds of nonsense ensues from stuff like that. I think that whole mess is referred to as cognitive dissonance or something like that. It's disorienting for sure. The dynamic of greater than > less than between you two is troubling. Superior and inferior never makes a healthy match. He was very critical but also claimed you as an asset for himself. That's not good stuff. That's damaging stuff. Go ahead and take a look at how you reacted to it because that's all you have control over, but you didn't react in a vacuum. It will do no good to shift all the blame to him, but do open to the possibility that his unhealthy pattern with you was damaging to you. You allowed it and that was damaging to you. A balance perspective of seeing two unhealthy people who fit 'just so' to act out unhealthy patterns, is I believe logical and freeing. |
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Post by fairysalad on Feb 6, 2019 15:14:52 GMT
Thank you. Your words are very healing to me right now. I have no desire to shift blame entirely onto his shoulders, but I definitely need to lift it from resting on purely my own. You have definitely allowed me some clarity in recognising that whilst my reactivity wasn't great, it did not happen on its own.
I did not even think of the critical/asset thing being damaging. It was just 'sometimes he struggles and I annoy him, but sometimes he lets his guard down and really shows he cares'. I do need to look at why I was willing to accept that, and see it as a loving act rather than something that hurt.
My conditioning was something I thought I had covered, to be honest. I grew up in an environment that was both violent and emotionally abusive. As a kid, nothing I ever did was good enough. Constantly trying to please whilst being told I was ugly, stupid, fat, not good enough. Despite this, I did well enough. My friends convinced me to go into therapy in my early twenties, because I simply didn't realise that doing well at university, having a job, having friends, did not mean I was OK. I was an emotional mess. Self-harm, eating disorder, extreme anxiety. After therapy I thrived, but did keep getting into relationships where I gave and got little back, or in extreme cases was physically and sexually abused. Would fight back and get a little stronger after every trauma, go back to therapy and figure out what had led me back to difficult places.
By the time S rolled round, I do believe I was OK. Proud of my achievements, good self-esteem, celebrating my independence. But like I said, I can't put the blame for where I am at entirely on him. Something in me obviously entered into this willingly, and stayed even when I knew it was hurting.
Sorry, kind of rambling at this point. Thank you again for your response, everything is helpful. I don't mean to ignore pertinent points, just don't know how to go back and reread responses without losing what I am typing. It is all noted and appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 15:28:19 GMT
Hi, my heart is with you - the story sounds very similar to mine and I can highly empathise with you. For my rship, he has his own share of blame for the toxicity he’s brought into the relationship - that’s for him to bear. I’ve already tried everything I can but he has to see it for himself what he is doing - nothing you can do about it. I’m sure my ex thinks the same way of me - and that is true. This is likely reflective of your rship as well (and prob so many stories here!)
I believe that all you need to do right now, is to process your emotions in a healthy manner so that you can get to a better, calmer place before you start reflecting on yourself. all you need to do now is focus on experiencing all the different emotions and working through that grief process. It’s a confusing time and you’ll often wonder if it was all your fault and if you were better, stronger, wiser, would it have been different. The truth is, it would have just been a different shade of toxicity and unpleasantness. Processing your emotions will also include some reflection, but the key goal is really to just experience the emotion and not cognitively engage in them. When you’re in a place where you can feel calm even when emotions well up, your reflections will be much more insightful and constructive, including much more deeper understanding of his behaviours and yours.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 18:43:27 GMT
Thank you. Your words are very healing to me right now. I have no desire to shift blame entirely onto his shoulders, but I definitely need to lift it from resting on purely my own. You have definitely allowed me some clarity in recognising that whilst my reactivity wasn't great, it did not happen on its own. I did not even think of the critical/asset thing being damaging. It was just 'sometimes he struggles and I annoy him, but sometimes he lets his guard down and really shows he cares'. I do need to look at why I was willing to accept that, and see it as a loving act rather than something that hurt. My conditioning was something I thought I had covered, to be honest. I grew up in an environment that was both violent and emotionally abusive. As a kid, nothing I ever did was good enough. Constantly trying to please whilst being told I was ugly, stupid, fat, not good enough. Despite this, I did well enough. My friends convinced me to go into therapy in my early twenties, because I simply didn't realise that doing well at university, having a job, having friends, did not mean I was OK. I was an emotional mess. Self-harm, eating disorder, extreme anxiety. After therapy I thrived, but did keep getting into relationships where I gave and got little back, or in extreme cases was physically and sexually abused. Would fight back and get a little stronger after every trauma, go back to therapy and figure out what had led me back to difficult places. By the time S rolled round, I do believe I was OK. Proud of my achievements, good self-esteem, celebrating my independence. But like I said, I can't put the blame for where I am at entirely on him. Something in me obviously entered into this willingly, and stayed even when I knew it was hurting. Sorry, kind of rambling at this point. Thank you again for your response, everything is helpful. I don't mean to ignore pertinent points, just don't know how to go back and reread responses without losing what I am typing. It is all noted and appreciated. I've been in similar circumstances but my internal reaction and coping mechanisms were different. I think any insecure style is vulnerable to emotional abuse- and also can react in ways that are emotionally abusive themselves. A key differentiator is PATTERN. Do you see a pattern? An anger laden emotional outburst in a conflict is not unusual even among healthy non abusive individuals. Anger need not be pathologized, every time it occurs. Is it a pattern, though? That's what needs to be examined. Anyone may do and say things they regret when triggered in heavy emotion. It's important to understand where it's coming from, and correct the behaviors once they are recognized. Anger can be very damaging if not addressed and worked with. Part of addressing it is understanding the root cause. If you can identify why you are angry (or were angry) and look into the patterns in yourself and the other person, you can make decisions about how to support yourself and correct the cause. You don't have to flog yourself over getting angry and behaving in ways you regret. It's better to try to help yourself by solving the problem. In this case, it's like playing in the sandbox with a bully who for whatever reason, felt entitled to criticize and compare you unfavorably to himself. He sounds like he was unpredictable, one minute you were great in his eyes and then over something trivial you were berated somehow? Been there. Its crazy making. When I experienced it I didn't actually think thete was something wrong with me, I thought to myself "That is flipping absurd, the nerve of him to nitpick me over this stupid crap.". There are many different reactions one can have, feeling bad because someone insults you is only one. Him saying that you helping people was a waste of time makes me a little sick to my stomach- is he a really good judge of personality or character with an attitude like that? Do you respect that attitude? Consider the source when someone is mean. So, there you were, sitting next to a kid with sand in his shorts that you didn't put there, and while he wanted to play and have a nice time he probably would have done better to shake the sand out of his shorts so he could feel better and stop being so grumpy. Instead, he sat there flicking sand at you, and you gave him the benefit of the doubt. Ultimately it gets tiring to be around a rude person like that and one might end up pitching a fistful right back. Is it great? No. Is it something to be proud of? No? Is it the end of the world? Nope. Can one be angry and sorry for their angry reaction at the same time? Yeah. Should one leave the sandbox and get out of the way of the bully, and find better friends? Probably, Hopefully. I'm dismissive. I generally find it easy to leave the sandbox instead of trying to reason with a miserable person. That, of course, has its pluses and negatives. But it's an idea you can borrow , you don't have to try to negotiate niceness from someone. You deserve niceness just because. It doesn't have to have a bunch of barbs sticking out of it. Be nice to yourself, also. You don't need sand in your face to have a good time: Be glad he left the sandbox. It wasn't going well. Find some nice friends who will help you clean up and understand what you missed going into this. And try to identify any patterns, in yourself. Does his "love" have similarities to the "love you experienced growing up? Sounds kind of like it- like you weren't "good enough". FOR WHO? A bully? Yeah, no one is. I'm not saying he's the devil. But he's not All That, right?!? Just trying to give some perspective and turn you away from the negative self talk a little. Chin up. I know this hurts a lot but time and perspective will show you things. |
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Post by fairysalad on Feb 6, 2019 19:33:22 GMT
Shiningstar, thank you for your reply. You are right that I need to try and concentrate on working through my own emotions and healing in a healthy manner. I am sorry that you have gone through a similar experience. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I am definitely stuck, at the moment, on wishing I could help him understand the things he did that weren't healthy. This is in part from a desire for him to not see me as a bad person, and in part wanting him to be able to have close connections with others even if I am not in the picture. It isn't healthy for me to stay fixated, and I need to start to try and simply work on what I can work on for me.
Nullified, I appreciate you coming back to this thread very much. Your sandbox analogy is a lovely one, and really struck a chord with me. I want to be careful about saying things that aren't true because of my hurt. At times he would definitely enjoy my kind nature, and think it was sweet. Other times it was almost like he was putting up with a child that did not know any better. I remember asking if we could spend some time litter picking, as I had gotten fed up with myself walking past an area in my village that had a lot of rubbish and being annoyed about it but doing nothing. He went along with it, but seemed progressively more annoyed. I felt good at the end, and asked him what was up. He said it was a nice idea in theory but would never have wasted his time doing it without me making him. When he told the story to others, it was just based around what a great day we had doing a nice thing, his irritation wasn't mentioned.
I think I am answering honestly that anger/emotionally abusive responses were never a pattern for me, but in the last year they became one. Although I struggle to separate what was this reaction, and just normal upset. I told a friend about a time when I ruined another weekend away by crying and becoming angry. She asked me to try break it down for her, and I told her I had become upset and escalated when I had been talking to him about something important to me, and suddenly mid sentence, he wasn't there any more. It was late at night in a foreign country and I could not see him anywhere. I started feeling anxious, and when he returned a few minutes later I asked why he disappeared and he said he had seen some litter that needed putting in the bin. She said it felt normal to her that I would be upset, he had disappeared without warning and literally put litter over what I was saying. But it was another weekend away where I felt I ruined things by being emotional and needy.
Sorry, bit of a tangent. I have never been one to shout, or insult in relationships. If anything I am a bit too passive, because raised voices upset me. I made a determination a long time ago to never speak to anyone the way I was spoken to as a kid, because it hurts and I dislike inflicting hurt. But over the last year, especially the last month it became a pattern. The more he tried, the angrier I was. I'm not proud of it.
I apologise if I am going round in circles a bit. I am still trying to process what I feel and make sense of things. This thread is so helpful to me, and I do really appreciate the input I am getting. I am sorry you had similar childhood experiences to mine. It is such a shame that parents leave these scars, and all the different ways we have to deal with them as adults.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 6, 2019 19:38:50 GMT
This post is full of flags for narcissism, and if you want to understand how you've been manipulated you may want to look into that. If it rings true, follow up with learning about what made you vulnerable to the manipulations and tactics he used to control you. It's true you have a part in this, but it may not be the part you think. He found some weaknesses and soft sport in you that you need to detect and protect, build up and heal. You are going to be ok and this will pass. , I picked up on this, too. Someone can have highly narcissistic tendencies without having NPD. It can be tied to emotional unavailability and how the defense mechanisms manifest. Either way, it sounds like you were in an emotionally abusive situation, especially when you talk about how going to therapy made him stronger and you weaker (it sounds like he was controlling how the sessions were framed to continue the pattern in your post about deflecting blame onto you). I agree with the above that even if he's not a narcissist, you should focus on youself and use some of the narcissist recovery information that's out there to help recover from the emotional abuse. I've been in the situation where a toxic relationship shot down my already shaky self-esteem, and it was important to get away from him and rebuild myself to heal. Which, I did. Does your current therapist specialize in things like anxious attachment and recovering from toxic relationships? |
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Post by fairysalad on Feb 6, 2019 19:48:22 GMT
This post is full of flags for narcissism, and if you want to understand how you've been manipulated you may want to look into that. If it rings true, follow up with learning about what made you vulnerable to the manipulations and tactics he used to control you. It's true you have a part in this, but it may not be the part you think. He found some weaknesses and soft sport in you that you need to detect and protect, build up and heal. You are going to be ok and this will pass. I picked up on this, too. Someone can have highly narcissistic tendencies without having NPD. It can be tied to emotional unavailability and how the defense mechanisms manifest. Either way, it sounds like you were in an emotionally abusive situation, especially when you talk about how going to therapy made him stronger and you weaker (it sounds like he was controlling how the sessions were framed to continue the pattern in your post about deflecting blame onto you). I agree with the above that even if he's not a narcissist, you should focus on youself and use some of the narcissist recovery information that's out there to help recover from the emotional abuse. I've been in the situation where a toxic relationship shot down my already shaky self-esteem, and it was important to get away from him and rebuild myself to heal. Which, I did. Does your current therapist specialize in things like anxious attachment and recovering from toxic relationships? Hi Alexandra, thank you for your reply. I really am struggling to let in the idea that he is a narcissist, but am hearing that it exists on a spectrum. I'm struggling to even accept that I was emotionally abused to be honest. I feel like I am doing him a disservice that it is coming across that way. Nothing was intentional, I don't think. But I do have to admit and accept that I expressed certain boundaries that he never took on board, like interrupting me. That sounds silly, but I had told him repeatedly it was something that triggered hurt and he often cut me off to point out something unrelated, or finished my sentences without waiting for me to get there myself. I will definitely look into information about recovery from narcissistic abuse. Even if I can't let it in as something that happened to me, I'm sure I will find something useful from it. My current therapist is person-centred. It is early days yet, but I will ask him if he knows anything about attachment theory. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 6, 2019 20:05:06 GMT
fairysalad, it can take time and perspective to accept that a situation may be emotionally abusive. I've dealt with actual NPD and dealt with being emotionally abused when an unavailable boyfriend deactivated and nitpicked when I was AP. He wasn't doing it on purpose and had a traumatic childhood full of unhealthy learned coping mechanisms, and I don't think he's NPD (he doesn't lack empathy but his defensiveness and self protection dysfunctional defense mechanisms make it much lower). However, even if it wasn't conscious on his part, it was real and, me being AP, I felt especially pummeled by the whole thing. I started looking up definitions and examples of emotional abuse, and it's not like the entire list described him, but I'd have examples for like a third of each list. As already said earlier in this thread, actions and words not lining up, in fact being in the direct opposition you described, create cognitive dissonance which is going to be wearing for anyone. I don't have therapeutic training, but I think that's one of the biggest warnings that you're dealing with someone emotionally unstable or somehow unavailable. It's also a bad sign that something has gone toxic if you're finding your own behavior is changing in negative ways that seem out of character. This can definitely get better, but if your AP is anything like mine was, it may take a fair bit of time of rumination and research to process what happened to you and start accepting that it wasn't all your fault. That time will be painful, so I'm sorry you're going through it, but it will also becoming healing if you stay focused on yourself and what you need, and as your distance and perspective on the situation grows.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 20:55:27 GMT
Shiningstar, thank you for your reply. You are right that I need to try and concentrate on working through my own emotions and healing in a healthy manner. I am sorry that you have gone through a similar experience. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I am definitely stuck, at the moment, on wishing I could help him understand the things he did that weren't healthy. This is in part from a desire for him to not see me as a bad person, and in part wanting him to be able to have close connections with others even if I am not in the picture. It isn't healthy for me to stay fixated, and I need to start to try and simply work on what I can work on for me. Nullified, I appreciate you coming back to this thread very much. Your sandbox analogy is a lovely one, and really struck a chord with me. I want to be careful about saying things that aren't true because of my hurt. At times he would definitely enjoy my kind nature, and think it was sweet. Other times it was almost like he was putting up with a child that did not know any better. I remember asking if we could spend some time litter picking, as I had gotten fed up with myself walking past an area in my village that had a lot of rubbish and being annoyed about it but doing nothing. He went along with it, but seemed progressively more annoyed. I felt good at the end, and asked him what was up. He said it was a nice idea in theory but would never have wasted his time doing it without me making him. When he told the story to others, it was just based around what a great day we had doing a nice thing, his irritation wasn't mentioned. I think I am answering honestly that anger/emotionally abusive responses were never a pattern for me, but in the last year they became one. Although I struggle to separate what was this reaction, and just normal upset. I told a friend about a time when I ruined another weekend away by crying and becoming angry. She asked me to try break it down for her, and I told her I had become upset and escalated when I had been talking to him about something important to me, and suddenly mid sentence, he wasn't there any more. It was late at night in a foreign country and I could not see him anywhere. I started feeling anxious, and when he returned a few minutes later I asked why he disappeared and he said he had seen some litter that needed putting in the bin. She said it felt normal to her that I would be upset, he had disappeared without warning and literally put litter over what I was saying. But it was another weekend away where I felt I ruined things by being emotional and needy. Sorry, bit of a tangent. I have never been one to shout, or insult in relationships. If anything I am a bit too passive, because raised voices upset me. I made a determination a long time ago to never speak to anyone the way I was spoken to as a kid, because it hurts and I dislike inflicting hurt. But over the last year, especially the last month it became a pattern. The more he tried, the angrier I was. I'm not proud of it. I apologise if I am going round in circles a bit. I am still trying to process what I feel and make sense of things. This thread is so helpful to me, and I do really appreciate the input I am getting. I am sorry you had similar childhood experiences to mine. It is such a shame that parents leave these scars, and all the different ways we have to deal with them as adults. Ok, call me a skeptic, but when I read the story about you asking him to liter pick with you, and his reaction, and subsequent story telling, I see this: He went along with it but made sure you knew that ONCE AGAIN, DOING SOMETHING NICE AND ALTRUISTIC IS A WASTE OF TIME. Read: your values are lame. When it was just the two of you, he made sure you knew his irritation. He could have supported you ALTRUISTICALLY, since we know he likes how sweet you are (to him, perhaps.... do you see the incongruence? He doesn't give much value to when you are sweet to someone besides him? Or maybe he does... but not consistently. What's real?) In public, the story was "We had a GREAT day doing a Great thing..." So, he got to look like a Supoortive Boyfriend who Shares Your Values and it was Great. He's Great. You're Great. You guys look Great. In public. How does that match up with who he was in provtae without an audience? Of course he isn't going to act like a jerk in public, (didn't you mention that people like him more with you around, or something like that? ) You may be hungry enough for kindness that you're just glad he helps you feel good in public. But how about how he makes you feel when you're alone? What's real? Love shouldn't be part time and feel different depending on who is in the room. If he is capable of being a loving and supportive partner, he will be consistent, if you are alone or in the presence of others. Everyone has an off day but you've shared some things that look like pattern of emotionally hurtful and very confusing behaviors. Again, I'm not saying he laid it all out in some big sinister plot to bring you down. He just doesn't seem strong on empathy. If you had any impact on him to help him to understand anything, he would have been able to keep up with the simple request to not interrupt. If he can't learn that from you, he certainly won't learn anything about deep patterns. It's not on you to teach him, it's on you to take care of yourself and know what you know, and stand by what you know. He's not receptive. (It's not hard to let someone finish a sentence, really. ) I'm not trying to be hard on you, please don't take it that way! I think you may have your bar a little low in terms of how you expect to be treated, and that's probably due to conditioning. Consistency is key. You deserve better, anybody does. I can't stand feeling like someone is only tolerating me, like I'm such a pain in the ass. That feels demeaning and like anything but mutual care and respect. Doesn't it? |
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Post by fairysalad on Feb 6, 2019 21:43:44 GMT
I don't think you are being hard on me at all. I'm grateful for your perspective. I do think I am hungry for kindness in relationships. In my younger days this was definitely out of control, nothing anyone gave me was enough. Although I can see behaviours in exes that weren't great at times, I do think my need for reassurance was a great pressure to them. I worked on it over the years, though. I developed healthy boundaries and was able to communicate my needs, and leave if they weren't being met.
The partner before S was abusive, and I wonder if this 'reset' my progress in some ways. I worked on what in me had stayed despite the abuse in therapy, and stayed single by choice for a good few years to make sure I didn't repeat the same trap. But perhaps, unconsciously, I was so grateful to not be hit or shouted at I ignored some red flags along the way.
I didn't go into this weak, though. I found a text conversation to a friend from early on. We were talking about how I had found S to be disrespectful and was taking some time apart to think about the relationship. I told her that I would be moving on if he couldn't respect me or meet my needs, as I was unwilling to find myself broken and putting my pieces back together in a couple of years time. A bit ironic now!
It's helpful to discuss in this way, that kind of removes the fact I lived it, to tell the story and be able to see us both a bit more objectively. I was so aware of my issues that I think I minimised his because I knew of my previous tendencies. I spent a good deal of the first part of our relationship explaining things reasonably, and ended an incoherent, explosive mess. I let it happen, but it is so helpful to hear from another that 'the small stuff' was indeed damaging. I'm not crazy, it was hurtful.
You are right that if the little things couldn't sink in, I have no hope with the big stuff. I need to let go this desire for him to understand my side. I couldn't get him to do it in the relationship, I can't expect to outside of it.
What's hard is how blurry things have become. I can think of a thousand examples of my bad behaviour, but pinpointing his is more difficult. He was always ready to help me out, and always trying. I devolved as he evolved. But it *is* helpful to hear that something as small as not taking on board that I don't like to be interrupted could be damaging. Thank you so much again for your input. I don't feel good for going round in circles and not being as clear as I could be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 22:04:30 GMT
I don't think you are being hard on me at all. I'm grateful for your perspective. I do think I am hungry for kindness in relationships. In my younger days this was definitely out of control, nothing anyone gave me was enough. Although I can see behaviours in exes that weren't great at times, I do think my need for reassurance was a great pressure to them. I worked on it over the years, though. I developed healthy boundaries and was able to communicate my needs, and leave if they weren't being met. The partner before S was abusive, and I wonder if this 'reset' my progress in some ways. I worked on what in me had stayed despite the abuse in therapy, and stayed single by choice for a good few years to make sure I didn't repeat the same trap. But perhaps, unconsciously, I was so grateful to not be hit or shouted at I ignored some red flags along the way. I didn't go into this weak, though. I found a text conversation to a friend from early on. We were talking about how I had found S to be disrespectful and was taking some time apart to think about the relationship. I told her that I would be moving on if he couldn't respect me or meet my needs, as I was unwilling to find myself broken and putting my pieces back together in a couple of years time. A bit ironic now! It's helpful to discuss in this way, that kind of removes the fact I lived it, to tell the story and be able to see us both a bit more objectively. I was so aware of my issues that I think I minimised his because I knew of my previous tendencies. I spent a good deal of the first part of our relationship explaining things reasonably, and ended an incoherent, explosive mess. I let it happen, but it is so helpful to hear from another that 'the small stuff' was indeed damaging. I'm not crazy, it was hurtful. You are right that if the little things couldn't sink in, I have no hope with the big stuff. I need to let go this desire for him to understand my side. I couldn't get him to do it in the relationship, I can't expect to outside of it. What's hard is how blurry things have become. I can think of a thousand examples of my bad behaviour, but pinpointing his is more difficult. He was always ready to help me out, and always trying. I devolved as he evolved. But it *is* helpful to hear that something as small as not taking on board that I don't like to be interrupted could be damaging. Thank you so much again for your input. I don't feel good for going round in circles and not being as clear as I could be. I'm glad that you're feeling validated a bit. When you've experienced very dreadful abuse in the past, smaller signals of disrespect or uncaring behavior can go unrecognized, because it isn't the "Big Stuff". It's not as black and white. Perhaps though, it isn't important to pick out all the individual incidents to validate your feelings. Maybe there are some broader questions you could ask yourself. They go along with raising the bar, fine tuning your expectations and standards. So, you could say to yourself: "Well, I don't know for sure if i was abused.... but do I know for sure i was RESPECTED?". "I don't think he was intentionally hurtful... but was he intentionally CAREFUL about things that mattered to me most? When they mattered to me most?" He doesn't have to be an all out psycho to be painful to you. He could be just selfish and thoughtless and inconsistent... consistently. Those aren't good relationship qualities. If you know you can offer thoughtfulness, consistency, kindness, why not expect that in return? Why settle and end up in so much pain, with nothing to show but pain, when he can't offer the same tolerance and patience you did so he just picks up and leaves? I mean, there is no good payoff to having low or too lax standards for how others treat you. And people who love you act like they love you even if no one is watching. That's HUGE. No one who ever mistreated me let others see it. That makes it more confusing, more destabilizing... makes you question your feelings and perceptions. Consistency is just critical. |
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