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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 17:50:48 GMT
Why do Fas keep reaching out when they say there done. I'm always consistent whilst he is full of mixed messages. Seriously? You're always consistent and he sends mixed messages? Really? How about when you're triggered, you'd say that's consistency? How about when both of you are drinking too much? It's all insanity. This isn't rocket science, people have told you he will vacillate due to the activation/deactivation of triggers, and his own emotional instability. You're in this dance step by step with him, neither of you are consistent. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 22:08:03 GMT
I mean when texting. Not in other ways, we are as bad as each other. But why assign any significance to texting? It's just a text. Tap a screen, words that don't mean anything for the long term good of anyone show up on someone else's screen and it's really, really, no big deal. It's got as much power as you give it. You won't block because you say that's not you. I'd be asking myself "Why do I behave the way I do?" instead of peering much into someone you know is as toxic as you. I'm not out to get you and have no reason to trip you up- but isn't it kind of crazy making yourself to start down that line of questioning? Of course you can, it's your prerogative. Perhaps someone can give you an explanation that will make you feel like you have another chance with him and it's not over, if that is what you need. Truthfully, it may not me over and you guys could pick it up again and just keep going indefinitely- some couples do that for years and years. Anyway, it's just a text. Doesn't mean anything and it's thoughtless given the status of the breakup. And from what I can see, an activated AP will be in an emotional storm if the Leaver texts or the Leaver doesn't text, and they'll make contact by stalking on social media, either way. It isn't down to what the other person is doing, your activation will be swinging you around by the feet either way. That's why it's so important to really stick to the reality of what's going on in you no matter what goes on in someone else. Looking outward is really just a way to avoid your own thinking and behaviors, isn't it? You seem perfectly miserable getting tossed around by your own dysfunction, and we all are until we recognize that our own dysfunction is all we have the power to change. I'll probably get dogpiled now, I don't know. But this pain won't stop until you take responsibility for yourself in it, with the drinking, the AP stuff, the instability of it all. You'll absolutely wreck yourself if you keep playing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 22:27:47 GMT
For anyone reading who is really struggling because the Leaver made some contact... The Leaver who always makes contact and you think it means something- here is a perspective I haven't seen written in these threads yet.
I have a friend, I've known her 15 years although we aren't close any more. Her Leaver always makes contact, and has been back and forth between her and several other women, in and out of jail ( as things got progressively worse ) and her problem is, he always makes contact and she always responds, never ever blocks him. She is always good for a shoulder to cry on, a meaningless conversation to engage in, a deep, drunk, philosophical conversation to have. He's always got something to make contact about except a commitment to her, actually. He just gets what he wants for her at the moment and runs off again with someone else.
So, 15 years and she is single, very overweight, aging and unhealthy, and he is still making contact. She's given 15 years of her heart and mind to this man and her best years are gone and there is no end in sight because he still has a phone to text with.
Unfortunately, you don't get younger and healthier and happier wearing yourself out with these crazy patterns. It really can suck your life away, one crazy day at a time... it seems just like a drug addiction to me. It seems like it should be taken that seriously. People give decades to this. And no one can save them but themselves but they give all their power to the Leaver, I don't get it. I get that it's an AP thing but I still can't get my mind around it.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 21, 2019 22:37:49 GMT
I mean when texting. Not in other ways, we are as bad as each other. But why assign any significance to texting? It's just a text. Tap a screen, words that don't mean anything for the long term good of anyone show up on someone else's screen and it's really, really, no big deal. It's got as much power as you give it. You won't block because you say that's not you. I'd be asking myself "Why do I behave the way I do?" instead of peering much into someone you know is as toxic as you. I'm not out to get you and have no reason to trip you up- but isn't it kind of crazy making yourself to start down that line of questioning? Of course you can, it's your prerogative. Perhaps someone can give you an explanation that will make you feel like you have another chance with him and it's not over, if that is what you need. Truthfully, it may not me over and you guys could pick it up again and just keep going indefinitely- some couples do that for years and years. Anyway, it's just a text. Doesn't mean anything and it's thoughtless given the status of the breakup. And from what I can see, an activated AP will be in an emotional storm if the Leaver texts or the Leaver doesn't text, and they'll make contact by stalking on social media, either way. It isn't down to what the other person is doing, your activation will be swinging you around by the feet either way. That's why it's so important to really stick to the reality of what's going on in you no matter what goes on in someone else. Looking outward is really just a way to avoid your own thinking and behaviors, isn't it? You seem perfectly miserable getting tossed around by your own dysfunction, and we all are until we recognize that our own dysfunction is all we have the power to change. I'll probably get dogpiled now, I don't know. But this pain won't stop until you take responsibility for yourself in it, with the drinking, the AP stuff, the instability of it all. You'll absolutely wreck yourself if you keep playing. No dog piling....just see the very real possibility for shame in the questions above....heck, I could feel it and I am not the poster in question. Hellsbells....I know where you are coming from...the desire to know where you stand and why he is doing what he is doing right now must be at the forefront of your mind. I will speak only to my situation to hope it helps to provide you with something to compare against. When B broke up with me...he felt honestly so bad...he knew he had hurt me and that was not what he had intended to do...so he followed up, asking if I was ok, telling me he missed me...I think he wanted to lessen the blow and make it clear that it wasn’t because he had ill will towards me...but his feelings had changed....they weren’t feelings of wanting to get back together..they wee feelings of wanting things to be ok for me and for us to be friends. That was really it. I know how hard it is to keep hope at bay...to look at a text and not read it through your own lens...which is why a pause may be in order...not a block...but a request for 30 days where he does not contact you...just so you can put a bit of distance between your hope and him. 💕💕 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 23:00:24 GMT
But why assign any significance to texting? It's just a text. Tap a screen, words that don't mean anything for the long term good of anyone show up on someone else's screen and it's really, really, no big deal. It's got as much power as you give it. You won't block because you say that's not you. I'd be asking myself "Why do I behave the way I do?" instead of peering much into someone you know is as toxic as you. I'm not out to get you and have no reason to trip you up- but isn't it kind of crazy making yourself to start down that line of questioning? Of course you can, it's your prerogative. Perhaps someone can give you an explanation that will make you feel like you have another chance with him and it's not over, if that is what you need. Truthfully, it may not me over and you guys could pick it up again and just keep going indefinitely- some couples do that for years and years. Anyway, it's just a text. Doesn't mean anything and it's thoughtless given the status of the breakup. And from what I can see, an activated AP will be in an emotional storm if the Leaver texts or the Leaver doesn't text, and they'll make contact by stalking on social media, either way. It isn't down to what the other person is doing, your activation will be swinging you around by the feet either way. That's why it's so important to really stick to the reality of what's going on in you no matter what goes on in someone else. Looking outward is really just a way to avoid your own thinking and behaviors, isn't it? You seem perfectly miserable getting tossed around by your own dysfunction, and we all are until we recognize that our own dysfunction is all we have the power to change. I'll probably get dogpiled now, I don't know. But this pain won't stop until you take responsibility for yourself in it, with the drinking, the AP stuff, the instability of it all. You'll absolutely wreck yourself if you keep playing. No dog piling....just see the very real possibility for shame in the questions above....heck, I could feel it and I am not the poster in question. Hellsbells....I know where you are coming from...the desire to know where you stand and why he is doing what he is doing right now must be at the forefront of your mind. I will speak only to my situation to hope it helps to provide you with something to compare against. When B broke up with me...he felt honestly so bad...he knew he had hurt me and that was not what he had intended to do...so he followed up, asking if I was ok, telling me he missed me...I think he wanted to lessen the blow and make it clear that it wasn’t because he had ill will towards me...but his feelings had changed....they weren’t feelings of wanting to get back together..they wee feelings of wanting things to be ok for me and for us to be friends. That was really it. I know how hard it is to keep hope at bay...to look at a text and not read it through your own lens...which is why a pause may be in order...not a block...but a request for 30 days where he does not contact you...just so you can put a bit of distance between your hope and him. 💕💕 Ok, you see shame in my post but I see enabling in yours, so there are just very different perspectives here. There is nothing shaming about encouraging someone to take their own issues seriously in order to find freedom from their own vices. And, it's been said many times in many ways that a text is just a text, and that peering into someone else's thoughts, motives, and behaviors can be a way of avoiding one's own. This is coming from someone who isn't caught in the trap of any addictions any longer so I can see why perspectives would be vastly different. It also might go down smoother if I myself were AP. Who knows. I think anxious and avoidants don't appreciate the other's communication styles or perspectives so much anyway. But there isn't any shame intended in my post. Just a reality check for someone who seems really at a loss and in pain from her own pattern. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 22, 2019 0:18:07 GMT
No dog piling....just see the very real possibility for shame in the questions above....heck, I could feel it and I am not the poster in question. Hellsbells....I know where you are coming from...the desire to know where you stand and why he is doing what he is doing right now must be at the forefront of your mind. I will speak only to my situation to hope it helps to provide you with something to compare against. When B broke up with me...he felt honestly so bad...he knew he had hurt me and that was not what he had intended to do...so he followed up, asking if I was ok, telling me he missed me...I think he wanted to lessen the blow and make it clear that it wasn’t because he had ill will towards me...but his feelings had changed....they weren’t feelings of wanting to get back together..they wee feelings of wanting things to be ok for me and for us to be friends. That was really it. I know how hard it is to keep hope at bay...to look at a text and not read it through your own lens...which is why a pause may be in order...not a block...but a request for 30 days where he does not contact you...just so you can put a bit of distance between your hope and him. 💕💕 Ok, you see shame in my post but I see enabling in yours, so there are just very different perspectives here. There is nothing shaming about encouraging someone to take their own issues seriously in order to find freedom from their own vices. And, it's been said many times in many ways that a text is just a text, and that peering into someone else's thoughts, motives, and behaviors can be a way of avoiding one's own. This is coming from someone who isn't caught in the trap of any addictions any longer so I can see why perspectives would be vastly different. It also might go down smoother if I myself were AP. Who knows. I think anxious and avoidants don't appreciate the other's communication styles or perspectives so much anyway. But there isn't any shame intended in my post. Just a reality check for someone who seems really at a loss and in pain from her own pattern. I did not say that there was not value in what you were trying to express....but...I will agree that APs and DAs experience pain and healing differently. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other...and this is because of a myriad of distinct differences..not because there is value in one over the other. I think the majority of APs do take their issues seriously....that is where the shame comes from....knowing that there is a different way that others believe we should behave versus how we do, think different then how we think etc. etc. What has to happen for an AP LONG before anything else is to be ok right where we are...crazy, ruminating thoughts and all. And I am not talking about the acceptance that is used as a defense against feelings of shame and guilt....I am talking about a compassion towards oneself that says....I am worthy of love even if I stay stuck, even if I remain AP. Because once that is achieved...then someone who can’t give you want you need becomes less desirable. Also, once that is achieved, there is no longer the enmeshment that says “all that you do impacts me and all I do impacts you”. But that takes time....so yes, call me an enabler....I understand why you would see it that way. Hellsbells...I want you to know that you are not broken, that your patterns do not define you....so I am sending more hugs to you. |
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Post by stayhappy on Apr 22, 2019 3:08:39 GMT
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Post by ocarina on Apr 22, 2019 16:19:02 GMT
But why assign any significance to texting? It's just a text. Tap a screen, words that don't mean anything for the long term good of anyone show up on someone else's screen and it's really, really, no big deal. It's got as much power as you give it. You won't block because you say that's not you. I'd be asking myself "Why do I behave the way I do?" instead of peering much into someone you know is as toxic as you. I'm not out to get you and have no reason to trip you up- but isn't it kind of crazy making yourself to start down that line of questioning? Of course you can, it's your prerogative. Perhaps someone can give you an explanation that will make you feel like you have another chance with him and it's not over, if that is what you need. Truthfully, it may not me over and you guys could pick it up again and just keep going indefinitely- some couples do that for years and years. Anyway, it's just a text. Doesn't mean anything and it's thoughtless given the status of the breakup. And from what I can see, an activated AP will be in an emotional storm if the Leaver texts or the Leaver doesn't text, and they'll make contact by stalking on social media, either way. It isn't down to what the other person is doing, your activation will be swinging you around by the feet either way. That's why it's so important to really stick to the reality of what's going on in you no matter what goes on in someone else. Looking outward is really just a way to avoid your own thinking and behaviors, isn't it? You seem perfectly miserable getting tossed around by your own dysfunction, and we all are until we recognize that our own dysfunction is all we have the power to change. I'll probably get dogpiled now, I don't know. But this pain won't stop until you take responsibility for yourself in it, with the drinking, the AP stuff, the instability of it all. You'll absolutely wreck yourself if you keep playing. Thank you sherry I really appreciate your reply and you are so right when you say focusing out is away to avoid focusing within and I know that is what I really need to be doing and hope and pray with time I can get there. I'm just very activated at the moment and the only way I feel soothed is seeing his name pop up on my screen with as you say is only a text but that simple text has such power to soothe sometimes for a whole day or if it comes in the evening often means I get some sleep. It's very distressing to me to be like this and unfortunately I don't know any other way, but one day at a time I will switch the focus around onto me. Thanks again for taking the time to reply x Helsbells this is a very gracious reply - I actually agree with everything @sherry has said - but also see the pain in your situation where you'd rather NOT be entangled but can't seem to find a way out. It's complex early life stuff and hard for avoidants like me - and @sherry to see the reason to keep sticking your finger in the fire and getting hurt.
Your description does sound very much like an addiction - have you considered or would you consider a twelve step program? I went to meetings for a while (al anon - when my ex was drinking heavily) and it was immensely helpful as a process. I know there are similar groups for co-dependents etc - and online groups too - would that help perhaps put a supportive and loving focus back on yourself?
It sounds like hell - having the behaviour of another person (who has issues and who you have no control over) in charge of your happiness or unhappiness. For me, lifting myself up by the shoulders and giving me a good shake and realising that actually I did have choice and control over my own behaviour and what I would accept and not accept, was immensely empowering - but everyone is on their own journeys so no right or wrong.
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Post by ocarina on Apr 22, 2019 16:55:21 GMT
The other way to look at the situation which may be helpful, is to make a choice to act out of love - for your partner and yourself. The only way to allow healing to take place in these kind of relationships is to break the dynamic, for one partner to leave the dance - this allows both of you, if you so wish, to take control of your own destiny and to begin healing. Leaving is not a malicious desertion - infact it's a way of graciously and lovingly allowing yourself and your partner to explore the possibilities of healing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 16:55:56 GMT
I think it's well established that these patterns cause pain and that nobody wants to be stuck in them without a way out. I also don't equate needing to take responsibility with seeing oneself as unlovable or defined by their blind spots. So the whole value judgement doesn't resonate with me, it's not where I am coming from. I think a person can be worthy, valuable, lovable; while at the same time being able to benefit from hard work and personal responsibly and acknowledging that what they themselves are doing is what's causing them pain. Helsbells there is a website called Baggage Reclaim and the author there deals with breaking the patterns. She offers exercises and questions to ask yourself that challenge deep beliefs, thinking, behaviors, roles. The website is geared less toward venting and circling around the issues and enabling the patterns, and more on identifying and repairing them. It might be helpful if you aren't sure where to start. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 22, 2019 17:21:39 GMT
It was definitely an interesting read...especially with regards to low contact that can be very confusing. I find it so interesting that the whole direction was regarding whether or not an ex would make an effort and I am not 100% certain that it is that cut a dry. DA=strong self opinion, don’t really need love, AP=low self opinion, craving an insatiable amount of love, FAs=both fear and craving love. I think it is a place where one can get started...but I have DA friends who don’t really fit the stereotype that many books and speakers refer to regarding a DA. Certainly they have a different lens then I do....but I would say they are open to love, but it just is not the center of their universe. |
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Post by ocarina on Apr 22, 2019 18:50:29 GMT
Helsbells I am so sorry for your pain - feeling as though you have been putting on an act for so very long sounds overwhelmingly exhausting - do you have anyone in real life that you can be really open with - apart from your partner. Do you have any kind of support at the moment? I'm in the UK too - if you'd like to PM me please feel free.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 23:01:06 GMT
Helsbells you might be able to feel supported right away , in person, if you get yourself to al-anon meeting in your town. You mentioned that you both were drinking heavily- often times a codependent path is "if ya can't beat em, join em". While al-anon might not be exactly what you need right now, the principles of self care, and healthy boundaries are a main focus there. Getting yourself into a room of people who also struggle but are walking a true path might help you tremendously. Forums are ok for some things, but the depth of your despair warrants more than batting around attachment theory on the internet. These wounds run deep and you're not alone, unless you keep yourself away from the empathy and support that is available to you where you are. I truly wish you the best!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 12:24:20 GMT
Good for you Helsbells, some support and fellowship can make a world of difference. I think it's very difficult to recover from this stuff alone. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Apr 25, 2019 0:00:16 GMT
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