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Post by tnr9 on Apr 23, 2019 12:00:54 GMT
So....I was really, really wrong....my friend was not talking to B or avoiding me as the stories in my head were telling me. She is dating someone and she spending a lot of time with him...but it is a guy she met on an online dating site. I am not mad at myself...I understand the random bits of information my brain used to create that story....instead, I am coming here to own it. Sometimes the stories are just that....and what I am taking away from this is the ability to “pause”....and by pause I mean, instead of reacting to the story....hold the feelings and thoughts that arise gently....until more information is known.
At at the root of my particular flavor of AP is fear and mistrust....towards myself and others. So I am not going to create more distrust towards myself by saying my thoughts are wrong or that I cannot trust them...that will just add fuel to the fire and knowing me...it will result in more checking and story making and not less,...but I am trying to gently open space for alternative stories. Alternative stories does not say I am wrong or that my stories are untruthful or that they and thus I are/am untrustworthy...but that there may be other stories I had not considered.
As to the underlying distrust and fear of others that is at the root of the stories....I am still working on that. I am working on creating “boundaries”, seeing autonomy (as in, what someone does is not about me but about them), pausing, spending time being compassionate towards myself and understanding that the fear and distrust truly is not about the now, but formed when I was much, much younger and did not have tools or capacity to properly work through it. I do now...better then I ever have....so now is my time to address this with love and understanding towards myself.
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 21, 2019 10:48:03 GMT
tnr9 oh I understand completely! All those stories! And the most horrible part is being SO SURE you're right about one in particular! It distorts our reality. This is one of the first things my therapist told me, here's an article that helped me understand: psychcentral.com/lib/15-common-cognitive-distortions/I can so much relate to most of them! What you're trying to do seems to help me too, once I get the alternative stories (always looking for positive ones), I just say to myself "it could be this or that, it could be either, it could be something else, I can't know". It was hard at first to sit in the in-between, as I call it, which is basically "not knowing", but it gets easier over time. I read somewhere that we do this to prepare ourselves for any outcome, but honestly it's exhausting!
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Post by happyidiot on May 22, 2019 4:12:25 GMT
tnr9 mamut Do you have any advice on how I can get through to someone who is creating stories like this? What does it take to make you realize it was just a story?
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 22, 2019 5:32:53 GMT
happyidiot oh that's a tough one. I tried once to convince a person close to me the same thing and they were so fixed to the idea that they knew the truth that I never, to this day, got through to them. So it definitely depends on how open that person is. My awareness started in a very bad period of my life where I was having panic attacks too. I got fed up and started reading. I did go to a doctor,but he wasn't a good fit so I gave up on that for years. I think the key to my realisation was the anxiety it was causing me, first and foremost,and the fact that I had so many contradictive thoughts that equally led me to an anxious state AND I could believe both with the same intensity. It became obvious something else was going on. If the person isn't open to it, it will be extremely hard to get through to them. These thoughts are so real it's scary. As I mentioned, we're looking for the "truth" to a situation we need to protect ourselves from and we turn into fortune-tellers, convinced that we KNOW what's really going on. At least that's how I've seen it manifest in me and the person I mentioned in the beginning. When I was convinced for one thought, I'd become mean an accuse my then partner of everything. He kinda deserved it as a sociopath and plenty of the thoughts I had were actually ture,but that's a different story. Not much you can do if the person is not aware yet. But if they are, best thing to do is find a suitable therapist, congnitive one are the best for this. Before that, reading is what worked for me. Articles with symptoms of anxiety, forums with people who are going through the same etc. Try anxiety forums. Always keep in mind to not directly tell them that something is wrong, it's like calling someone crazy and that never ends well. Remember how you realized your attachment style and what it took to become aware too. This is all I could come up with now. I gotta run, but feel free to ask any questions! Hope it helped a bit!
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Post by tnr9 on May 22, 2019 12:05:37 GMT
tnr9 mamut Do you have any advice on how I can get through to someone who is creating stories like this? What does it take to make you realize it was just a story? It isn’t something that you can really address...I have had many friends who tried to convince me that my stories were not real and that just made me feel isolated and alone and the stories would continue in secret. You could watch the Brene Brown documentary on Netflix as she touches upon “the story i am telling myself is” in a really caring way using an example from her own life. It is a bit different then the story I have above....but you can talk about that as an indirect way to have you friend look at whether there are any other stories. The very best thing you can do, is just be a support...in my case, what broke that story was the fact that she is now dating someone else....so it wasn’t anyone convincing me...it was that the reality did not fit the story anymore. Every single time B likes her posts on FB, the old...he likes her, he wants to date her voice comes up...and yeh....that could certainly be the case. I do wish your friend the best....stories are incredibly hard....they have a life of their own...they are a protective measure gone a bit out of control. |
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Post by happyidiot on May 22, 2019 14:15:34 GMT
mamut tnr9I'm not asking about a friend, I'm asking about my partner, who creates stories involving me. It is heartbreaking to be accused of things. I guess that whether someone can see them as stories instead of facts may depend on how attached the person is to a worldview in which they are "right" about things. As someone who is FA myself I am no stranger to anxious stories, but, maybe because my default is to think I could be wrong about anything, I am quick to give them up when given a little reassurance or kindly presented with evidence. I've come to realize those things are not enough for my partner and he will even actively thwart attempts to present him with proof. Clinging onto the stories must be serving some purpose. I guess I was hoping that I could learn some skills to handle being the antagonist in these fictions. Sometimes I end up snapping. Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, I'm extremely sad today.
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 22, 2019 15:27:15 GMT
happyidiot , I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can imagine how bad it feels, but know that he is not doing this on purpose, which you probably already know tbh. I'm sure he'd love to be freed by all this. Has he ever showed a sign that he understands that something's wrong? Do his friends understand that his thoughts are off? And do you think they can be supportive? Im saying this because when I was activated and looking for proof etc, I was more accepting towards my friends telling me there's something off with me rather than my partner, unfortunately. because at that point he's the "enemy". I'm so sorry if this is harsh, you're not the real enemy of course. Also keep in mind that I wasn't open with these things to any partner, so it fuels my view of him as the "enemy". It wasn't even close to a loving and honest relationship. I'm curious if other APs have the same view.
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Post by happyidiot on May 22, 2019 18:08:51 GMT
happyidiot , I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can imagine how bad it feels, but know that he is not doing this on purpose, which you probably already know tbh. I'm sure he'd love to be freed by all this. Has he ever showed a sign that he understands that something's wrong? Do his friends understand that his thoughts are off? And do you think they can be supportive? Im saying this because when I was activated and looking for proof etc, I was more accepting towards my friends telling me there's something off with me rather than my partner, unfortunately. because at that point he's the "enemy". I'm so sorry if this is harsh, you're not the real enemy of course. Also keep in mind that I wasn't open with these things to any partner, so it fuels my view of him as the "enemy". It wasn't even close to a loving and honest relationship. I'm curious if other APs have the same view. I typed up a thoughtful reply and the forum has been malfunctioning and deleted it. Thank you. He increasingly seems to think the only way to be "freed of all of this" is to not be with me, that the right person would not trigger this in him because he thinks it is based on real things that I and the people around me are doing that he is just reacting to as anyone in the world would react to. I think a third party telling him might be our only hope but I'm not sure if one of his friends can fulfill that role or not, since if he talks to them about it he may just tell them a story like it's fact and they won't know any better unless they're already well-aware of his tendency towards paranoia. It's one thing to say to a friend, "My girlfriend hasn't texted me back for a few hours, do you think that means she's going to leave me for someone else?" and it's another to say, "My girlfriend has an inappropriate relationship with her ex and he's a total asshole who is trying to get her back and was texting her booty calls at 2am and she's started lying to me and seeing him behind my back, do you think I should leave her?" (note that this is not exactly what he said but imagine things in that vein). It hurts me to think he might be telling his friends something like the latter and they might be saying, "OMG that's terrible, you should definitely leave her," but I know it's not my fault and I'm trying to remember it's not the end of the world if people think untrue things about me. He has rare glimmers of insight, like he might occasionally say something like, "I'm telling you about this because I know sometimes my mind can run away with itself otherwise," but lately he seems to externalize his anxieties and become unable to be reasoned with. I know some people must be thinking I AM doing something to make him worry like pulling back, but I've been mostly secure throughout this relationship and the times when I have felt internal deactivation haven't seemed to be the triggers for his stories emerging. Kudos to anyone who is able to see that sometimes the stories are just that and have compassion for yourselves and also for how the stories can affect others and is doing the tough work of working on their attachment wounding. |
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Post by ocarina on May 22, 2019 18:56:05 GMT
I've had a couple of crystal clear work related instances of thoughts being nothing more than fairy tales recently. The thing is we are wired to look for danger, to see and experience the worst in order to keep ourselves safe - physically safe in days gone by where there was real physical danger, predation to be vigilant against.
So the mind shaped by millennia of natural selection, continues to scan the horizon for danger and then add a layer of consciousness and off it goes into fairy tale world. But it seems real.
Most of the healing I have read about on this forum comes from individuals who have been able to take a step back and examine their process for themselves and who have the motivation and maturity to challenge their own thoughts and feelings - going one step further than recognising the faulty thinking and actually sitting with the painful emotions that accompany it without attaching to them or pushing them away. I don't think this is something you can do for anyone else - or even encourage another person to do. Trying to is denying their reality and is demeaning and isolating.
Difficult - but I don't think this is something that you can control in another person - leading by example by working on your own reality is usually the best plan.
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 22, 2019 18:56:14 GMT
happyidiot oh I KNOW you haven't done anything wrong! I understand that his friends will think that way and who wouldn't? But they have false information. Is there any of his friends that you are close to that you can talk about this? Without it seeming like you're ganging up on him of course? I wanna suggest a friend of yours that's close to him, but he might think that they're covering up for you. Oh I feel for both of you so much, but I feel helpless. I was in a relationship with a guy who suffered from anxiety. It was a bit different as I could relate and told him so. He was also aware because he had panic attacks too. I told him, once I found out that he should start therapy and how I wish I had when I was going through mine etc. Anyways, he never did and it brought me to a point where I told him that it's wearing me out. I never gave him an ultimatum, but i even booked a session for us to go together and he slept in... I never blamed him directly, he already felt very guilty about it. He still didn't budge though. I was in loss just like you now. Note, he also had anger issues and if I didn't leave, at some point he'd probably physically abuse me, so again, it was easier. After a huge fight due to his anxiety/jealousy/stories, he started calling a therapist and the therapist called me without his knowledge. She advised me, and that's where this story is going, to not give him an ultimatum, it won't work on him. Bottom line, if a person doesn't want to be helped, it's very hard to convince them to get some. Sometimes people need to hit rock bottom. I don't think I handled it well tbh, I should've gone to a therapist earlier, not only to figure out how to help him, but to process my feelings about it. So maybe you should try a therapist on your own? Tell them everything and they'll guide you on how to help him. Make sure to find one that is willing to work with you on that matter. The one I found just told me to dump him, talk about professionalism. I honestly feel for you, I really hope you guys will get over this!
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Post by tnr9 on May 22, 2019 19:12:07 GMT
mamut tnr9 I'm not asking about a friend, I'm asking about my partner, who creates stories involving me. It is heartbreaking to be accused of things. I guess that whether someone can see them as stories instead of facts may depend on how attached the person is to a worldview in which they are "right" about things. As someone who is FA myself I am no stranger to anxious stories, but, maybe because my default is to think I could be wrong about anything, I am quick to give them up when given a little reassurance or kindly presented with evidence. I've come to realize those things are not enough for my partner and he will even actively thwart attempts to present him with proof. Clinging onto the stories must be serving some purpose. I guess I was hoping that I could learn some skills to handle being the antagonist in these fictions. Sometimes I end up snapping. Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, I'm extremely sad today. Ok...I don’t know your partner...but it is important that recognize that this is not about you....stories are about the person’s internal state. So there is something internal to your partner that he is associating to you. I am working but I will expand on this later. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 19:38:49 GMT
This is a very interested thread, I wasn't aware of the extent of storymaking. mamut this is a difference between anxious and dismissive responses to distressing thoughts or threats to a relationship. A dismissive nervous system automatically and unconsciously suppresses threatening information or stimuli that induce anxiety. I'm just expounding on the other thread and don't mean to hijack. But for anyone who wonders, it's a key difference in though process- threats are literally dismissed on our end generally, so a dismissive might be more inclined to turn a blind eye to actual cheating simply because brain turns the channel. I have literally experienced the progression of distressing thought>brief recognition>dismissal of the thought because not enough information is available>diffiuculty concentrating on the issue> determination of any practical steps should be taken at this time to remedy>yes/no>action or release of concern. Kind of like a flow chart. Very interesting to begin to understand the complexity and profound power of the anxious mind when assessing perceived threats. |
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 22, 2019 19:53:18 GMT
@sherry oh I wish I was like that! I am getting better at it though as I did try, and was mostly successful, with my last ex, to have that train of thought.
I got jealous towards the end, thought "you're jealous because he has distanced himself, so you're feeling insecure. Jealousy is based on insecurity, so that's the reason you're feeling it AND you don't have enough proof, so IF and when you do, you can think about it then". It really helped!
And yes, the stories can become reality and it's exhausting.
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Post by tnr9 on May 22, 2019 20:57:46 GMT
This is a very interested thread, I wasn't aware of the extent of storymaking. mamut this is a difference between anxious and dismissive responses to distressing thoughts or threats to a relationship. A dismissive nervous system automatically and unconsciously suppresses threatening information or stimuli that induce anxiety. I'm just expounding on the other thread and don't mean to hijack. But for anyone who wonders, it's a key difference in though process- threats are literally dismissed on our end generally, so a dismissive might be more inclined to turn a blind eye to actual cheating simply because brain turns the channel. I have literally experienced the progression of distressing thought>brief recognition>dismissal of the thought because not enough information is available>diffiuculty concentrating on the issue> determination of any practical steps should be taken at this time to remedy>yes/no>action or release of concern. Kind of like a flow chart. Very interesting to begin to understand the complexity and profound power of the anxious mind when assessing perceived threats. Yes...that is a big difference...because I tend to amplify a distressing thought to the point that I literally cannot get the thought out of my head. I think it may (and again, I am just speculating) come down to a view that I can avoid making the wrong choice or being surprised by pain by getting ahead of it....in a sense, if I create a story for what I most fear, then I won’t be caught odff guard when it happens. Almost Pavlovian....experience something negative enough times->predict negative things->negative thing things happen, repeat...until it becomes the natural. I do think there has to be a narptute aspect...the nervous system has to be sensitive enough to go into overdrive and that overdrive becomes an alert that something is wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 21:12:38 GMT
@sherry oh I wish I was like that! I am getting better at it though as I did try, and was mostly successful, with my last ex, to have that train of thought. I got jealous towards the end, thought "you're jealous because he has distanced himself, so you're feeling insecure. Jealousy is based on insecurity, so that's the reason you're feeling it AND you don't have enough proof, so IF and when you do, you can think about it then". It really helped! And yes, the stories can become reality and it's exhausting. It has its definite benefits,, also significant drawbacks. Obviously, I don't lose sleep over imagined things. Stressful things that I have handled to the extent that I can don't tend to rule my well being. For instance it is great when parenting children, who present a number of challenging and frightening situations as teenagers. In hard situations that are evolving, where the outcome is not yet manifest, I'm able to stay pretty optimistic or at least balanced and present. Being able to empathize and encourage my kids is not negative and so I'm not emotionally or cognitively cut off from them, but I am not overcome by worries or pessimism. We've gotten through some really rough stuff and managed very well considering and I appreciate the cool headed trait for that because I am a single parent and that can be very difficult. It's also very good for my professional life, I am self employed and haven't been deterred by the difficulties of starting a business and the uncertainty of building it to success. In fact, I never considered failing in an industry where many, many do. I'm established and successful at it. On the other hand, DA can minimize significant , real threats to their well being. This is a survival mechanism from not having adequate protection and help when small. To maintain survival meant minimizing the threats. I am dismayed by the damage done to myself simply by not registering the danger of harmful conditions, at least without sufficient alarm to enable and effective response. Simply put, Ive been victimized because of an ability to cope and survive instead of a natural fight flight or flee response - instead; deactivates, shut down, and got run over very badly. Also, I'm that woman that would make a citizens arrest if I had to and I have intervened in situations that could have gotten me injured very badly. I'm fine, it worked out every time but with kids, that's not the best risk to take. Maybe not responsible, and it could look like carelessness. I'm all they have, and I've stepped into some danger to help someone on a few occasions and it's very stressful for my kids and partners to see. I have mixed feelings about it but really see how I have made them afraid for my safety. So, it's a double edged sword. I'm sorry that this storymaking survival mechanism in anxious is so destructive, I admit I am thankful I don't suffer from it. I just cannot imagine how difficult it must be. |
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