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Post by kranichangel on Apr 24, 2019 6:58:26 GMT
Hi all,
I have actually been an active reader and learner / gatherer of information on this board for almost a year, however, I rarely write as I never felt the need to.
I can confidently say, that I show anxious preoccupied patterns in my romantic relationships (I am a 32 year old female if anyone is curious) but working on myself very much, to reveal deeper and deeper layers through mindfulness, reflection and gentle, authentic self-awareness.
It occurred to me suddenly, that even though I had always shown these strong anxious tendencies in romantic relationships, in my friendships and even with family members somewhat, I am, since childhood, following much more avoidant patterns - at least, I think so. To give some examples, it has always been super hard for me to schedule meet ups with my friends, as I strongly valued my independence and alone-time, and the thought of having to schedule something was somehow a threat to my autonomy and sense of security and stability within myself if that makes sense. I was like that as a teenager, anreven now as an adult I still recognise these patterns, though I have been working on them and it is getting a lot easier.
I am wondering, if this is a common occurrence that we may display patterns of one attachment style in romantic connections, and of another in friendships and if so, how can we explain this? I am curious.
Because, with a romantic partner I hardly ever feel engulfed, threatened in my autonomy and freedom, I don't mind spending a lot of time (not all!) with them and so forth but with my friends (I only have a handful of close friends probably for that reason), even though I love and cherish them and do enjoy our time and talks once we get together, it is a challenge for me to even truly WANT to get together, its almost like I am finding all kinds of excuses why spending time in togetherness will somehow threaten my sense of calm and peace and being able to be ME and do what I want to in the moment -
Curious to hear your thoughts and experiences. Also, not sure which category to post this so excuse me if its in the wrong one :-)
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Post by kranichangel on Apr 24, 2019 8:06:52 GMT
Gosh, I am exactly like how you have described yourself and have always been that way.. I often cancel on friends as I start to feel overwhelmed at the thought of meeting up. I prefer to visit them so I can leave whenever. It has concerned me as I wondered if how I feel with friends and family is how my ex felt in our romantic relationship. You know, I have thought the same that maybe this is similar to what an avoidant partner could be feeling like - because to be honest, I can see how my demeanour with my friends could sometimes come off as me not giving a poo about them and not valuing their presence in my life, even though that is not true. And actually, after several weeks of not speaking to a friend and not making much effort to connect, I somehow sense their pulling away from me (understandably) and this is when I remember that, "hey, actually, I really do care about you and I want you in my life, please don't cut me off!!" kind of panic moment. I remember as a teenager feeling so overwhelmed with scheduling and planning meet ups with my best friends, yet would feel so alone and utterly miserable and sad if I sensed them pulling away from me - I wanted connection, I wanted that warm feeling of friendship and love, yet- I felt I could only tolerate it on my terms, in small doses. Very interesting indeed! I also dread phone calls, I much rather text here and there but to be PRESENT for a call, to be that open and vulnerable and put on the spot - is still a little daunting to me. Many texts and emails might go unanswered, not because I don't care but because... it seems so burdensome and sometimes plainly overwhelming... this is how I can put it. I am now consciously working on my patterns and peeling away layer after layer, truthfully looking at MY hurts, fears, wounds etc - and I am making effort to be more present in my friends lives. But is is curious and interesting to me how we can display one pattern with romantic partners, and another with friends / family. I wonder if more people will chime in, as I find this very interesting and also somewhat enlightening.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 24, 2019 11:28:21 GMT
Gosh, I am exactly like how you have described yourself and have always been that way.. I often cancel on friends as I start to feel overwhelmed at the thought of meeting up. I prefer to visit them so I can leave whenever. It has concerned me as I wondered if how I feel with friends and family is how my ex felt in our romantic relationship. You know, I have thought the same that maybe this is similar to what an avoidant partner could be feeling like - because to be honest, I can see how my demeanour with my friends could sometimes come off as me not giving a poo about them and not valuing their presence in my life, even though that is not true. And actually, after several weeks of not speaking to a friend and not making much effort to connect, I somehow sense their pulling away from me (understandably) and this is when I remember that, "hey, actually, I really do care about you and I want you in my life, please don't cut me off!!" kind of panic moment. I remember as a teenager feeling so overwhelmed with scheduling and planning meet ups with my best friends, yet would feel so alone and utterly miserable and sad if I sensed them pulling away from me - I wanted connection, I wanted that warm feeling of friendship and love, yet- I felt I could only tolerate it on my terms, in small doses. Very interesting indeed! I also dread phone calls, I much rather text here and there but to be PRESENT for a call, to be that open and vulnerable and put on the spot - is still a little daunting to me. Many texts and emails might go unanswered, not because I don't care but because... it seems so burdensome and sometimes plainly overwhelming... this is how I can put it. I am now consciously working on my patterns and peeling away layer after layer, truthfully looking at MY hurts, fears, wounds etc - and I am making effort to be more present in my friends lives. But is is curious and interesting to me how we can display one pattern with romantic partners, and another with friends / family. I wonder if more people will chime in, as I find this very interesting and also somewhat enlightening. It is well documented that we will display different responses depending on the relationship. 🙂
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Post by kranichangel on Apr 24, 2019 11:51:16 GMT
You know, I wonder if it has to do with ... in my case, I did not have a good or healthy and stable relationship with my father growing up, as he was emotionally absent and not invested and we never formed that bond, even now I do not feel a strong connection to him but he is just kind of - another man to me, even though I do love and care for him. So, I am thinking that maybe I am re-enacting this dynamic with the male partners in my life -trying to be good enough for him, to extract that feeling of being loved, wanted, appreciated, safe.. from him by trying to act in a way that would produce that result (of course, this is the little girl in me, not the grown, conscious woman!).
I just found this curious that I am displaying such different and almost opposite behaviour with my male partners than with friends and family. And it would make sense that the old patterns between me as the girl and my dad as the absent, not fully invested and present male, would repeat itself until I can bring more and more awareness to the pattern within MYSELF and heal these from within myself - so, not focussing on why a man does not seem to want me, be present for me in the way I like and need, etc etc but recognising my own role in this dance, recognising my hurts and traumas as the litte girl, and healing them and replacing them with more healthy behaviours as a grown, more conscious woman.
Hope this makes sense... English is not my mother language, I am from Germany :-)
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 24, 2019 11:59:28 GMT
You know, I wonder if it has to do with ... in my case, I did not have a good or healthy and stable relationship with my father growing up, as he was emotionally absent and not invested and we never formed that bond, even now I do not feel a strong connection to him but he is just kind of - another man to me, even though I do love and care for him. So, I am thinking that maybe I am re-enacting this dynamic with the male partners in my life -trying to be good enough for him, to extract that feeling of being loved, wanted, appreciated, safe.. from him by trying to act in a way that would produce that result (of course, this is the little girl in me, not the grown, conscious woman!). I just found this curious that I am displaying such different and almost opposite behaviour with my male partners than with friends and family. And it would make sense that the old patterns between me as the girl and my dad as the absent, not fully invested and present male, would repeat itself until I can bring more and more awareness to the pattern within MYSELF and heal these from within myself - so, not focussing on why a man does not seem to want me, be present for me in the way I like and need, etc etc but recognising my own role in this dance, recognising my hurts and traumas as the litte girl, and healing them and replacing them with more healthy behaviours as a grown, more conscious woman. Hope this makes sense... English is not my mother language, I am from Germany :-) It does make complete sense...that is a lot like my background.....absent father (through divorce) which has influenced my choices of men. It seems that “aloof but promising” is my type. What I find best for me is to show compassion towards that little girl and find safe friends, male and female who are willing to be there through the vacillations.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 16:27:28 GMT
This is why I prefer relationships with "becoming healthy" avoidants or secures. Imagine just being you, in your own skin, and getting the AP protest behavior from your friends and family. Do you ever experience that? It's kind of dehumanizing in my opinion, lots of negative projections and accusations. It's damaging. I know damage goes both ways but this topic is addressing the presence of avoidance in people who identify as AP in some areas- so it is enlightening in some ways I am sure. I'm not saying that avoidant behavior is healthy but if it's your natural attachment style it's much healthier to be around people who are not predisposed to taking it personally or being negatively impacted by it. All of the growth and change is. process and best supported by people who can empathize consistently and not try to force change or compliance with their own preferences.
I have been avoidant in all relationships most of my life but my close relationships are not impacted by attachment style any longer. I am able to be me and still maintain deep connections that are intimate and meaningful both ways. They are just comfortable and not threatened by time and space. Not everyone can thrive that way so it's good to know what is best for you, and to let others decide what is best for them.
I'm not currently in a romantic relationship and will probably focus on other things for the near future. When I do meet someone with mutual interest, I know that I am able to be committed and emotionally available but I still do best with space around me to just be myself, being a lone entity is not necessarily lonely to me, and there is even a spiritual aspect to it that is validated by many faiths and philosophies. I would rather have no partner than a partner who cannot be happy with and appreciate that about me. It's not that I can't compromise but I'm not going to morph into what someone else wants me to be.
Those who can recognize their own natures as more independent and less needful of constant engagement in non romantic relationships might be able to see that there is a wide range of "healthy enough and workable" between the two polar ends of the attachment spectrum. There is a lot of gray area and individual circumstances involved.
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Post by epicgum on Apr 24, 2019 17:09:41 GMT
I'll hazard a guess that this "AP in romance but avoidant in friendships" phenomena is related to the true emotional unavailability and fear of intimacy of the AP.
After all, on a subconscious level an AP ::intentionally:: peruses relationships with DA's who won't really bother them or really push to know/reveal/expose them on a deeper level. So in this scenario the AP is "safe" from being truly seen--because the DA is incapable of that.
However, the same intimacy that needs to be avoided in romance also needs to be avoided in platonic relationship (because the basic negative self image hasn't changed) and it's tough to arrange things so that all of your friends are naturally DA, so you need to do a bit of the pushing yourself in order to keep things at a 'safe' and controlled distance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 17:29:24 GMT
I'll hazard a guess that this "AP in romance but avoidant in friendships" phenomena is related to the true emotional unavailability and fear of intimacy of the AP. After all, on a subconscious level an AP ::intentionally:: peruses relationships with DA's who won't really bother them or really push to know/reveal/expose them on a deeper level. So in this scenario the AP is "safe" from being truly seen--because the DA is incapable of that. However, the same intimacy that needs to be avoided in romance also needs to be avoided in platonic relationship (because the basic negative self image hasn't changed) and it's tough to arrange things so that all of your friends are naturally DA, so you need to do a bit of the pushing yourself in order to keep things at a 'safe' and controlled distance. I think you're right here. All the insecure styles avoid intimacy, just with different tactics and resultant internal outcomes.
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Post by kranichangel on Apr 24, 2019 17:41:01 GMT
I'll hazard a guess that this "AP in romance but avoidant in friendships" phenomena is related to the true emotional unavailability and fear of intimacy of the AP. After all, on a subconscious level an AP ::intentionally:: peruses relationships with DA's who won't really bother them or really push to know/reveal/expose them on a deeper level. So in this scenario the AP is "safe" from being truly seen--because the DA is incapable of that. However, the same intimacy that needs to be avoided in romance also needs to be avoided in platonic relationship (because the basic negative self image hasn't changed) and it's tough to arrange things so that all of your friends are naturally DA, so you need to do a bit of the pushing yourself in order to keep things at a 'safe' and controlled distance. Epicgum, yes, I totally can agree to this because just as you say, I can see (in my own patterns and experiences) that an AP is just as emotionally unavailable as an avoidant. It shows in different ways, in that the anxious somehow seeks this complete love and validation and security OUTSIDE of themselves, not understanding that this hunger and demand can never be satiated unless we actually learn to foster self-love, acceptance and a sense of security WITHIN ourselves. At least, that is one part of it that I can see. And this is why actually, learning to develop this intimacy with my close friends, I feel is very healing to me and helps me get in touch with these parts of myself that are not available, to uncover them, recognise them and practice new ways. Just the other day I actually thought: Kranichangel, how can you expect a man to show up for you if you don't even show up for your friends yourself? Look at this, and find out what is keeping you from being intimate and present and vulnerable with your friends, and it might just help you in your future romantic relationships! This was the thought process that was going through my head. In a way, it is obvious but to be quite frank, I had never truly noticed and acknowledged before that I am in my own way avoiding intimacy and presence. So for me, this is another valuable piece of the puzzle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 18:27:03 GMT
kranichangel you are well on your way. When things start clicking for you like this it gets much easier, in my experience, to bring about real change for yourself. I don't see this all as shameful stuff, more like being able to see "Hey, this is how I get myself into pain and this is how I can get out.". Understanding these things gives you freedom and power to chose.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 24, 2019 19:42:49 GMT
I'll hazard a guess that this "AP in romance but avoidant in friendships" phenomena is related to the true emotional unavailability and fear of intimacy of the AP. After all, on a subconscious level an AP ::intentionally:: peruses relationships with DA's who won't really bother them or really push to know/reveal/expose them on a deeper level. So in this scenario the AP is "safe" from being truly seen--because the DA is incapable of that. However, the same intimacy that needs to be avoided in romance also needs to be avoided in platonic relationship (because the basic negative self image hasn't changed) and it's tough to arrange things so that all of your friends are naturally DA, so you need to do a bit of the pushing yourself in order to keep things at a 'safe' and controlled distance. In an odd way however...I also think that there is this drive that “this time I will be seen, loved, accepted” which is why there is so much emphasis on providing the partner what is desired by the self. I agree it is being unavailable to self and to the other because it presumes what is desired/needed by the partner is what is needed/desired by the self. So...i don’t see “you” because I am reacting and responding out of a “perception” I have about you versus who you truly are. Yet....it takes an AP who is willing to admit that perception is not reality to break that pattern. For instance, my mom is avoidant and introverted....and man, I spent decades, literally decades taking her stuff so personally....I wanted her to see me....to accept me....but I wanted her to accept me with no boundaries...which I admit was very selfish on my part. I have worked really hard to change that....to understand that her boundaries are good and necessary...and my respecting her boundaries has dramatically improved our relationship. That unfortunately is a HUGE blind spot for APs...respecting another person’s autonomy. Still working on that in my own life.
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Post by leavethelighton on Apr 24, 2019 23:54:03 GMT
tnr9 I'd be interested in hearing more about this idea of your mother and her boundaries, and your recognizing they are good and necessary. I have similar struggles with family members. It's been a long path towards accepting that their boundaries are stricter than mine, especially if that means I don't always get what I wish I could out of the relationship (like in some ways I feel I can't be real).
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 25, 2019 1:32:36 GMT
tnr9 I'd be interested in hearing more about this idea of your mother and her boundaries, and your recognizing they are good and necessary. I have similar struggles with family members. It's been a long path towards accepting that their boundaries are stricter than mine, especially if that means I don't always get what I wish I could out of the relationship (like in some ways I feel I can't be real). Sure..what specifically do you want to know?
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Post by leavethelighton on Apr 27, 2019 0:05:25 GMT
tnr9 I'd be interested in hearing more about this idea of your mother and her boundaries, and your recognizing they are good and necessary. I have similar struggles with family members. It's been a long path towards accepting that their boundaries are stricter than mine, especially if that means I don't always get what I wish I could out of the relationship (like in some ways I feel I can't be real). Sure..what specifically do you want to know? Like more about it...not to get too personal. But what's an example of a boundary she has that was hard to accept, then you did, and you saw some good in it?
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 27, 2019 12:10:53 GMT
Sure..what specifically do you want to know? Like more about it...not to get too personal. But what's an example of a boundary she has that was hard to accept, then you did, and you saw some good in it? Oh sure... My mom is very time conscious.....so she does not like to spend a lot of time on the phone whereas, I don’t have that same time based boundary. Before, I would feel “rushed” in a conversation with her and my interpretation of that was that she did not care to spend time speaking with me...which ultimately became, she does not accept me for who I am since if she did, she would not have that boundary with me. I have since change my perspective to view that boundary as something she needs..even if I don’t share it....it is not personal...it is just a boundary that make sense for her and respecting it has really changed our dynamic in a positive way. So before....not being mindful of that boundary, I would make small talk before getting to the real reason I called her...now I do the opposite. I get my question addressed....then she gets to choose whether she has time for small talk or not. It has helped me as well because “getting to the point” was not a strong suit of mine and I have had to hone that skill. I have had to shift my views on boundaries to a more...this is important to that other person and since I care about that person, I will respect it, whether I understand it or not. I hope the above example helps.
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