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Post by anonymous10 on Jun 13, 2017 1:50:38 GMT
Hi Guys,
So basically my ex boyfriend was a fearful avoidant (but would sometimes shift into dismissive patterns as Jeb Kinison has described is possible). I am very emotionally attuned, I have a strong and healthy level of self esteem and I set boundaries for myself in all relationships. My avoidant ex and I did not last long as I suspected something was up about 1.5 months in. I tried to be friends with my ex after the break up (1. because I was still madly in love with him and 2. I quickly realised he was a very lonely, depressed and empty person and the fact that he wouldn't even admit it broke my heart, I felt like he needed someone around him who saw through through the false self, but of course, this is the very thing that frightened him about me).
Eventually I realised 1-2 months into being 'friends' the whole push/pull cycle and I called it quits by removing him on absolutely all social media and never talking to him again. It killed for the first few months, but 10 months of no contact had gone by and I was absolutely fine and stronger than ever - he never crossed my mind! Until.... I saw him at a house party a few months ago. He came over to me (he is usually extremely nervous and afraid of confrontation) and was very nervous and said hello and asked how I was etc.
His face was filled with so much remorse. It was honestly quite strange - I expected him to either leave the party or pretend like I wasn't there and keep up the image of "being too cool he's not bothered". We ended up talking for about 1-2 hours away from everyone and we both ended up in tears - he (completely unprompted) described his whole attachment disorder and that it took him months to figure out the problem was not me but it was him. He kept saying sorry, and when I burst into tears he really nervously asked if could touch my shoulder to comfort me (shows how aware he finally was of the pain and damage he had caused, that he was even scared to touch me). I have NEVER ever even alluded to him during our relationship/post break up or when we were friends that I KNEW he was depressed, anxious, scared of intimacy, had an attachment disorder, had no real friendships, had narcissistic tendencies etc. I literally just let him believe that I believed him when he said "I just am having doubts and I no longer want a relationship" which shows that all the things he said and came to realise, were not manufactured to "reel me back in". The next 7 weeks we were friends, catching up twice a week, he was making consistent and genuine effort and was SO HUMBLE, UNDERSTANDING AND REMORSEFUL and most important REASSURING throughout this time. I couldn't believe it.
We would have open discussions about why he would continually go back to his ex of 4 years (honestly they've broken up about 5 times and have casual sex all the time). She fits the anxious preoccupied time to a tee (I remember once she called him 10 times in a row on a Saturday night when I was in the room right before we started dating). He told me in our recent friendship the following things:
I asked him why do I terrify him and the ex doesn't? I always believed it was because she thought the world of him, she sees him the way he wants to be seen, and he always has the control with her because she always always comes back no matter how he treats her (unlike me). He said: "As terrible as this sounds.. I am always in control with her. I know that at the end of the day she will always love me more than I love her". He also said "No one, at all, knows me the way you know me, my friends, my parents know a little bit but even my ex of 2 years don't understand these parts about me (the attachment disorder) that you do". He also said "it's safe, with the ex, and she doesn't challenge him the way I do and that, he feels so scared with me because "even though he rationally knows I like him, he feels apprehensive about how much I like him etc and it's scary". He went back to his when we broke up just weeks later they started talking again. I knew he would at the time because it was easy and she would let him.
After 7 weeks, of watching him grow and getting to a really nice place with him, it was evident that we both still had really strong feelings for each other. But I know better than to go back with someone who has all these issues - I'm 23.. I can't invest in someone who has a lot of personal growth to be doing.
The issue is, I see his problems before he sees them and he would only end up resenting me if we were to be together again. I want to be with someone who wants to be good for themselves and no one else. I told him all of this and said it's best we let go and don't talk to each other anymore. He was so devastated, but he completely understood. It took him 20 minutes to finally confess he still had strong feelings for me and even though so much time had gone by, his feelings were the same. He said that the feelings of anxiousness that came about when we were together a year ago were involuntarily and that its very scary for him. He said "I want to change, but I don't even trust myself at this point. I can be so much worse (mentally) than I am even now." He admitted he has no goals, he is a mess and his brain is "mush". Even though he has come such a long way in 10 months - our recent friendship showed me the the still had so many concerning behaviours. I wouldn't bring them up or pick on him, but it was enough for me to know he still wasn't ready and wouldn't be ready for quite some time (if ever). We cuddled for 10 minutes and then we said goodbye. I kept telling him that if he finds himself in a good place, and that he's worked through some of these issues - to please contact me because I will always have feelings for him.
I hoped with all my heart, that the loss of me would be enough to try and trigger some change (and maybe it is I don't know). But 3 weeks later... he reached out to his ex again and met up with her to "chat" when he found out she was seeing someone new. This absolutely killed me. Not only did I feel like he went backwards instead of living with the pain in order to curb this weird addiction and grow, as well as doing what is right by him and this ex (the poor girl), but it made me question everything we went through. I felt like how could he do that. If he had any care for a possibility between us in the future, how could he go and fuck it up just 3 weeks later. When he was asked about this - he got really defensive, and he was a different person. The remorse, and the humility had faded quite a bit and he seemed so concerned with having "lost control" over his safety net (the other ex).
My question is - is the push/pull with the anxious preoccupied ex narcissistic based? I.e. wants control and when he has it loses interest? He fundamentally likes her because she is clingy, she doesn't see the vulnerability or the real him, and the relationship is somewhat superficial that it doesn't trigger him the way I triggered him? He has low self esteem so he chooses partners who make him feel better about himself? ORRRR
Is the coming and going with the clingy ex fear based? And the difference between this girl and I is that I didn't let him get away with that and so he respects me more? Whereas she did? I have to be honest - my relationship feels very different with him.
Why would he give in and go back to the ex (what appeared to be so easily) after the revelation/ordeal? Was it a moment of weakness for him? it is as if he has suppressed what we went through, and gone back to old ways. It's like an addiction of some kind.
Insight would be appreciated!!!!!
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Post by mrscuba on Jun 15, 2017 3:42:35 GMT
Hi Guys, So basically my ex boyfriend was a fearful avoidant (but would sometimes shift into dismissive patterns as Jeb Kinison has described is possible). I am very emotionally attuned, I have a strong and healthy level of self esteem and I set boundaries for myself in all relationships. My avoidant ex and I did not last long as I suspected something was up about 1.5 months in. I tried to be friends with my ex after the break up (1. because I was still madly in love with him and 2. I quickly realised he was a very lonely, depressed and empty person and the fact that he wouldn't even admit it broke my heart, I felt like he needed someone around him who saw through through the false self, but of course, this is the very thing that frightened him about me). Eventually I realised 1-2 months into being 'friends' the whole push/pull cycle and I called it quits by removing him on absolutely all social media and never talking to him again. It killed for the first few months, but 10 months of no contact had gone by and I was absolutely fine and stronger than ever - he never crossed my mind! Until.... I saw him at a house party a few months ago. He came over to me (he is usually extremely nervous and afraid of confrontation) and was very nervous and said hello and asked how I was etc. His face was filled with so much remorse. It was honestly quite strange - I expected him to either leave the party or pretend like I wasn't there and keep up the image of "being too cool he's not bothered". We ended up talking for about 1-2 hours away from everyone and we both ended up in tears - he (completely unprompted) described his whole attachment disorder and that it took him months to figure out the problem was not me but it was him. He kept saying sorry, and when I burst into tears he really nervously asked if could touch my shoulder to comfort me (shows how aware he finally was of the pain and damage he had caused, that he was even scared to touch me). I have NEVER ever even alluded to him during our relationship/post break up or when we were friends that I KNEW he was depressed, anxious, scared of intimacy, had an attachment disorder, had no real friendships, had narcissistic tendencies etc. I literally just let him believe that I believed him when he said "I just am having doubts and I no longer want a relationship" which shows that all the things he said and came to realise, were not manufactured to "reel me back in". The next 7 weeks we were friends, catching up twice a week, he was making consistent and genuine effort and was SO HUMBLE, UNDERSTANDING AND REMORSEFUL and most important REASSURING throughout this time. I couldn't believe it. We would have open discussions about why he would continually go back to his ex of 4 years (honestly they've broken up about 5 times and have casual sex all the time). She fits the anxious preoccupied time to a tee (I remember once she called him 10 times in a row on a Saturday night when I was in the room right before we started dating). He told me in our recent friendship the following things: I asked him why do I terrify him and the ex doesn't? I always believed it was because she thought the world of him, she sees him the way he wants to be seen, and he always has the control with her because she always always comes back no matter how he treats her (unlike me). He said: "As terrible as this sounds.. I am always in control with her. I know that at the end of the day she will always love me more than I love her". He also said "No one, at all, knows me the way you know me, my friends, my parents know a little bit but even my ex of 2 years don't understand these parts about me (the attachment disorder) that you do". He also said "it's safe, with the ex, and she doesn't challenge him the way I do and that, he feels so scared with me because "even though he rationally knows I like him, he feels apprehensive about how much I like him etc and it's scary". He went back to his when we broke up just weeks later they started talking again. I knew he would at the time because it was easy and she would let him. After 7 weeks, of watching him grow and getting to a really nice place with him, it was evident that we both still had really strong feelings for each other. But I know better than to go back with someone who has all these issues - I'm 23.. I can't invest in someone who has a lot of personal growth to be doing. The issue is, I see his problems before he sees them and he would only end up resenting me if we were to be together again. I want to be with someone who wants to be good for themselves and no one else. I told him all of this and said it's best we let go and don't talk to each other anymore. He was so devastated, but he completely understood. It took him 20 minutes to finally confess he still had strong feelings for me and even though so much time had gone by, his feelings were the same. He said that the feelings of anxiousness that came about when we were together a year ago were involuntarily and that its very scary for him. He said "I want to change, but I don't even trust myself at this point. I can be so much worse (mentally) than I am even now." He admitted he has no goals, he is a mess and his brain is "mush". Even though he has come such a long way in 10 months - our recent friendship showed me the the still had so many concerning behaviours. I wouldn't bring them up or pick on him, but it was enough for me to know he still wasn't ready and wouldn't be ready for quite some time (if ever). We cuddled for 10 minutes and then we said goodbye. I kept telling him that if he finds himself in a good place, and that he's worked through some of these issues - to please contact me because I will always have feelings for him. I hoped with all my heart, that the loss of me would be enough to try and trigger some change (and maybe it is I don't know). But 3 weeks later... he reached out to his ex again and met up with her to "chat" when he found out she was seeing someone new. This absolutely killed me. Not only did I feel like he went backwards instead of living with the pain in order to curb this weird addiction and grow, as well as doing what is right by him and this ex (the poor girl), but it made me question everything we went through. I felt like how could he do that. If he had any care for a possibility between us in the future, how could he go and fuck it up just 3 weeks later. When he was asked about this - he got really defensive, and he was a different person. The remorse, and the humility had faded quite a bit and he seemed so concerned with having "lost control" over his safety net (the other ex). My question is - is the push/pull with the anxious preoccupied ex narcissistic based? I.e. wants control and when he has it loses interest? He fundamentally likes her because she is clingy, she doesn't see the vulnerability or the real him, and the relationship is somewhat superficial that it doesn't trigger him the way I triggered him? He has low self esteem so he chooses partners who make him feel better about himself? ORRRR Is the coming and going with the clingy ex fear based? And the difference between this girl and I is that I didn't let him get away with that and so he respects me more? Whereas she did? I have to be honest - my relationship feels very different with him. Why would he give in and go back to the ex (what appeared to be so easily) after the revelation/ordeal? Was it a moment of weakness for him? it is as if he has suppressed what we went through, and gone back to old ways. It's like an addiction of some kind. Insight would be appreciated!!!!! So what I've learned from avoidants is that they themselves can't stay consistent to who they are and what they really want. They really are lost and tortured souls (most of them anyway). I have found many avoidants to basically be one large walking coping mechanism. The anxiety and inner feelings are so strong they exist by means of coping somehow and protecting themselves which is usually a function of indendence and extreme privacy. I'm not surprised at all to hear this about your avoidant ex. My ex... she at times seemed to be a walking contradiction that craved intimacy and closeness and then freaked out once she got it. She dated super clingy dudes before me and because she knew they worshiped her just for being how she wanted (avoidant and all) she took full full advtanage of them letting her use her as pawns. On the other hand I challenged her and showed a true loyalty to her unlike anything she had experienced before. I realized she was a person with emotional needs like everyone else but didn't know what those emotions were. In her case it goes back to her parents, in particular her dad who has basically been present but always had little to nothing to do with her . She wasn't even allowed to cry or make noise as a child... so yeah imagine what that does to someone? I've noticed in many ways most have a shitty childhood of some sort in common usually whether they recall it that way or not. Remember this! You can't believe expect consistency and in many cases decency from someone that doesn't really know how to properly feel and hasn't really even been given the chance or been allowed to explore their emotions to the fullest like I've seen quite often with avoidants. It's almost like an "emotional handicap" to an extent. Your efforts alone likely won't encourage a tremendous change, from my experience that comes with professional help and the desire to grow. I've finally gotten my ex girlfriend to address these thing inside her heart and she's not only Opened up to me as a best friend but is giving her best effort to the therapist she is seeing to make changes in her life. Remember, avoidants because avoidants for a reason so you have to reevaluate your needs and wants when it comes to dating them. I won't event date my ex again but I'm happy we are best friends now. In a strange way she has become the person I always needed her to be now that we are just friends. Yeah she doesn't have to have the pressure of a relationship on her avoidant nature but this has enabled her to get help and really work on change that she realized she wants. Fortunately I've been able to be a big part of that life changing realization she's had! I encourage you to stop trying to make sense out of things that are illogical and are rooted in emotionally damaged in insecure People's thoughts. Focus on you and love yourself! I had to learn that he hard way personally. And ask yourself, "is it even fair for me to be dealing with this right now? Don't I deserve better and more Happiness?"
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Post by anonymous10 on Jun 15, 2017 4:33:04 GMT
So... That first little bit is very similar to me. I truly did challenge my ex and watch him grow because of it. It was when I bowed out, and 'set him free' that I feel he gave in and contacted the clingy ex. I was never ever a clingy partner. I don't know why I feel so invalidated when he uses his clingy ex?
My ex and I had a very similar revelation to what you are describing .. He finally said some things out loud which he has never admitted in his life. He told me that when he was around me (this new stint of us being friends after not talking for 1 year) that he felt more like himself than ever. He told me that his best friends of years, his ex of 3 years... that none of them saw what I saw (the real him) and he was just so appreciative and didn't let me go. He had this HUGEEEE realisation and I was honestly watching him grow. But even over this period.. I still saw strong tendencies which haven't changed which scared me and I realised we could not date again right now if ever. Maybe we can be friends but not right now as I believe we still have very strong feelings for each other and I won't have room for someone healthy in my life.
So it isn't because he 'didn't love me enough' that he gave in to old tendencies when I walked away from him and reached out to the clingy ex? It really hurt me. Because overtime we broke up he found himself talking to her again. She has no boundaries and she worships the ground he walks on. I really honestly did have a huge impact on him and I know he can/could grow with me but i want him to do it for himself, not for me.
Thank you so much MrsScuba.. So you are basically saying, that it's not all that 'weird' and his behaviour with the clingy ex fits?
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Post by mrscuba on Jun 15, 2017 13:31:40 GMT
So... That first little bit is very similar to me. I truly did challenge my ex and watch him grow because of it. It was when I bowed out, and 'set him free' that I feel he gave in and contacted the clingy ex. I was never ever a clingy partner. I don't know why I feel so invalidated when he uses his clingy ex? My ex and I had a very similar revelation to what you are describing .. He finally said some things out loud which he has never admitted in his life. He told me that when he was around me (this new stint of us being friends after not talking for 1 year) that he felt more like himself than ever. He told me that his best friends of years, his ex of 3 years... that none of them saw what I saw (the real him) and he was just so appreciative and didn't let me go. He had this HUGEEEE realisation and I was honestly watching him grow. But even over this period.. I still saw strong tendencies which haven't changed which scared me and I realised we could not date again right now if ever. Maybe we can be friends but not right now as I believe we still have very strong feelings for each other and I won't have room for someone healthy in my life. So it isn't because he 'didn't love me enough' that he gave in to old tendencies when I walked away from him and reached out to the clingy ex? It really hurt me. Because overtime we broke up he found himself talking to her again. She has no boundaries and she worships the ground he walks on. I really honestly did have a huge impact on him and I know he can/could grow with me but i want him to do it for himself, not for me. Thank you so much MrsScuba.. So you are basically saying, that it's not all that 'weird' and his behaviour with the clingy ex fits? It took me a while to realize this myself after having more avoidants in my life than I ever cared to have (that's mean but it's true lol). I realized that it wasn't me... in a very FUCKED up way I started to realize that their avoidance of me was symbolic of how much they actually love me and cared for me even though it was absolutely positively horrible for me in terms of how it made me feel. No I'm not surprised to hear they went back to the ex for short term emotional fixes. Remember they are still people that to some extent want to connect with people. Like my ex they feel in control of the situation with the desperately clingy ones because they get what they want and need on their terms. It's once you touch their hearts and soul that you start to really tap into emotions they know nothing about. To non-avoidants like secured and even anxious types they come across as heartless or indecent with no regard for your feelings. At some points you may even wonder if they are sociopaths or narcissist... but the reality is they are probably just trying to cope and handle these feelings and emotions that bring them anxiety. One of the hardest things and most challenging things that can Happen to avoidants is to Find that person that they care about that won't give up on them and makes them realize and feel things that challenge them. All of a sudden they fight and struggle with their coping mechanism and then sort of feel inadequate and that you're going to leave them because at that point they feel they won't be able to give you "normalcy" so they sabotage and go Into full blown coping mechanism and shut down emotionally and that's it. Slowly they bounce back and at that point they go back to the anxious worshippers they have on the back burner to maybe help them feel Better because they had control of that where as they lost a sense of control and independence amidst feeling inadequate and vulnerable with you. Avoidants being so tortured, can make you feel like you have to walk on egg shells unfortunately. In my case my ex and I are in our 30's so it's a bit different at this point in our life, but emotionally i sometimes compare her reactions and responses to uncomfortable feelings to that of a young teenager that pouts and storms off because they aren't in control. I find most avoidants want to be close to you they just don't know how without feeling suffocated and out to control because the reality is that someone really let them down in terms of raising them the way they should have been. Most of them haven't ever experienced warm, familial love and affection the way most people experience it that yields a life time of security in attachment. None of what you are saying is surprising for me to hear. I've seen it in avoidants i have known of all ages. But once you get through to them and they actually trust you and realize you respect their needs even as friends they become amazingly close to you and it's rewarding because you realize you have established such a special and unique bond with that person that no one else ever has. In my case my ex that is now my best friend just admitted to me that she's so grateful to have found someone like me in her life that she finally feels comfortable being herself around, and keep in kind she was married for 5 years before!!! Age, time, experience all male a difference. I suggest that you learn to accept that your ex is struggling but in that struggle you need to emotionally protect yourself and establish your own boundaries and definitely learn to realize that none of this has to do with you... it's all him. You can't allow yourself to get shocked by these kind of odd and hurtful actions. You have to realize they probably don't fully make sense to him either. If you are going to keep him in your life I suggest you guys stay good friends with clear and defined boundaries. Don't expect normalcy from a person that has never experienced anything close to that in terms of attachments and people that have been close to them in life. Give yourself the relief in knowing that you did the best you can and you yourself deserve better and to be happy. I'm sure your ex, like mine is a wonderful person at heart but that doesn't mean they are good for your mental well being and emotions. I've been able to finally say these things to my ex that never wanted to hear them before when we were together and now it's amazing how she just listens because she is no longer feeling like she is in survival mode being in a relationship. Take what you've learned from this experience with your ex and use it to figure out what you really want and need in a partner. This is a way to look at your struggles, heart ache, and pain from the avoidant as a valuable experience and lesson learned that you'll forever be grateful for. Hope this helps! Take care!
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Post by anonymous10 on Jun 15, 2017 14:27:49 GMT
Thank you SO MUCH.
"All of a sudden they fight and struggle with their coping mechanism and then sort of feel inadequate and that you're going to leave them because at that point they feel they won't be able to give you "normalcy" so they sabotage and go Into full blown coping mechanism and shut down emotionally and that's it. Slowly they bounce back and at that point they go back to the anxious worshippers they have on the back burner to maybe help them feel Better because they had control of that where as they lost a sense of control and independence amidst feeling inadequate and vulnerable with you"
I did leave him. He opened up to me and I left him because I knew I couldn't cope with it. I don't feel bad, but it makes sense as to why someone as vulnerable as him would be desperate for his security blanket more than ever and reach out to the ex.
This has me tearing up. That is what my psychologist keeps telling me, and my mum. I have the answers deep down and I know what we share/shared is so special because I am really happy that I can help/helped him grow. I don't want to let his slip ups of going back to the ex for attention ruin what we shared because it actually doesn't really change much. So thank you.
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Post by mrscuba on Jun 15, 2017 17:30:32 GMT
Thank you SO MUCH. "All of a sudden they fight and struggle with their coping mechanism and then sort of feel inadequate and that you're going to leave them because at that point they feel they won't be able to give you "normalcy" so they sabotage and go Into full blown coping mechanism and shut down emotionally and that's it. Slowly they bounce back and at that point they go back to the anxious worshippers they have on the back burner to maybe help them feel Better because they had control of that where as they lost a sense of control and independence amidst feeling inadequate and vulnerable with you" I did leave him. He opened up to me and I left him because I knew I couldn't cope with it. I don't feel bad, but it makes sense as to why someone as vulnerable as him would be desperate for his security blanket more than ever and reach out to the ex. This has me tearing up. That is what my psychologist keeps telling me, and my mum. I have the answers deep down and I know what we share/shared is so special because I am really happy that I can help/helped him grow. I don't want to let his slip ups of going back to the ex for attention ruin what we shared because it actually doesn't really change much. So thank you. Eventually you'll be able to look down deep into yourself and realize he's the one that loses the most and is aware of this regardless of how much they don't seem to. I'm glad I was able to help you understand this better. I've been through what you've been through and it truly makes you not only stronger but more empathetic as well. Many of them feel like "fuck ups" because of the very coping mechanism that they feel makes them stronger. It's got to be torture for many of them to know that what they THINK makes them stronger and independent hurts people and themselves in the end. Be kind to him, be his friend, but don't make the mistake of falling for the old trap that hurt ya! Take care! And DO love yourself enough to take care of yourself first and foremost. And remember you can't control the actions or intentions of other people! Only your own :-)
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sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by sam on Jun 16, 2017 11:18:20 GMT
I have to say I don't see my avoidant exs treatment of me as a symbol of how much he loved and cared for me, the way I was treated was as though he absolutely hated me and resented me, full of contempt for for.
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Post by mrscuba on Jun 16, 2017 12:48:12 GMT
I have to say I don't see my avoidant exs treatment of me as a symbol of how much he loved and cared for me, the way I was treated was as though he absolutely hated me and resented me, full of contempt for for. I thought so too at first, Sam. I can't speak for your experience as maybe your avoidant undortunately did feel that way... but from the avoidants I've either dated or gotten to be friends with I've come to see this abnormal behavior and have them admit it to me. I've also read and talked to others here in Boston psych discussions / get-togethers on this and I was shocked that I wasn't alone. I do think this reaction we speak of is much more in line with fearful avoidants more so than full-on dismissive avoidants to be totally fair to those that have been burned by a DA. I actually think this thread could be moved over to the fearful avoidant section based on the behaviors anonymous' ex exhibited according to her post. The DA's I have known have indeed come across as just relentlessly uncaring mean people so I can see where you may be coming from, SaM
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sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by sam on Jun 16, 2017 13:14:03 GMT
After reading a lot about avoidants, I think my ex was fearful/ avoidant but still had the dismissive tendencies too. He once admitted it scared him how much he loved me, and a week after he ended it he sent me a text saying how much he had loved me, that I had been his world and how he would have done anything for me. Yet in the same text blamed me for everything. His treatment of me didn't show that. So despite how it made me feel hated etc, I guess you're right his extreme behaviour was because of his feelings for me he couldn't handle and as you also said, but it was positively horrible for me.
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Post by lurker on Aug 15, 2017 4:13:55 GMT
Reading these accounts from two people who seem to have truly gotten through to their avoidant exes is extraordinary. It really gives me hope. I wanted to join the conversation to ask for both of your advice. Here's my story, which I'm crossposting from another forum, with a few edits:
"A few months ago I met someone I believed to be very special. I'm in my mid thirties and I've been divorced for two and a half years. Prior to the marriage ending the relationship was very traumatic for around the same length of time. This new relationship was the first time in years that I have met someone and actually believed we might have a future together. Her life experience is different to mine, but with one key similarity: neither one of us had connected with anyone for a very long time until we met each other.
She's two years older than me, and told me she's unsure if she has ever been in love. I believe her longest prior relationship was two to three years, and she claims to have stayed far longer than she ought have. Other relationships have been short and unsatisfying. Additionally, she is an only child whose father abandoned her and her mother, seemingly leaving them in virtual poverty. She is independent and by all appearances very resilient. She moved to a big city at eighteen and has lived on her own since. Like me, she hadn't formed any meaningful connections in several years, and this was a source of sadness to her. She had essentially given up, to hear her tell it.
Just the same, when we met the connection was instantaneous and beautiful. We were both stunned that such a thing was even possible. It wasn't super intense or anxious... it was just really good, and kind, and incredibly joyful, and we had fun and made each other laugh. Our first date lasted thirteen hours, and we spoke on the phone when I got home. She's intelligent, and can be very insightful, and like that... we fell in love. I know how it sounds... but it felt strangely stable, like two people at a time in their lives who were both ready, and were making a conscious choice to 'go for it'.
For three and a half months we were inseparable, usually at her invitation. I was introduced to her social circle. "I love yous" were eventually exchanged, and felt earned (if early). Plans were made to visit family interstate. Children and a future were discussed and we both seemed amazed and joyful at the prospect. She told her friends she felt she'd finally met 'her person'. It was very 'couply' and domestic. It didn't feel like an affair or a fling. It wasn't intense in a clingy way. It felt like a real, solid, worthwhile relationship. Not only that, but so much of this was by her initiative.
Then, to my astonishment, she sat me down one day and I saw panic in her eyes. She ended it on the spot. It took all of five minutes and seemed incredibly detached and cold. I was given my toothbrush and a shirt I'd left at her apartment, and sent home. ...While I had begun to sense some distancing and irritability from her, this was still a complete shock. She had invited me on a trip that morning. She had booked movie tickets for us for a couple of days later. She had said "I love you" the day before, without being prompted by me.
What had supposedly triggered this sudden change of heart?
Simply this: I had forgotten to make the bed (something she'd asked me not to do).
Obviously it's not that simple, and she didn't pretend otherwise, but the question of whether I was trustworthy or dependable was clearly of deep importance to her, and she had become disconnected and fearful as a result of it. She admitted a loss of connection had been percolating for a while, based on the feeling that I would be unreliable, but she hadn't purposefully revealed it to me. Earlier there had been an incident during which I had (very slightly) pushed back against criticism with a mildly elevated voice. I later learned that while she had gotten irritable at the time, she didn't communicate how much this had truly upset her. She hadn't slept that night worrying about it. The next day she confessed it had made not trust me. It seems it was all downhill from there.
About a week after we broke up we spoke on the phone. She said she still wanted to find the connection between us and that there were moments when it came back, but that she worried it was gone for good and that she just couldn't see things working out. She told me, among other things, that she didn't know if I'd be a dependable father. I assure you I will be a completely devoted and engaged father, and nothing about my life suggests otherwise. I can be a bit scatterbrained, but i'm a good, decent, emotionally attentive man.
I am utterly heartbroken and bereft in light of all this. This is the first time I've been able to invest in a relationship since my divorce. Over a month later I am still in acute distress.
Obviously I recognize the pattern here. I just don't know what to do about it. This is someone I care about deeply. She is in her late thirties and claims to want kids. She doesn't seem to recognize (or at least hasn't acknowledged) that she is repeating patterns in her life and sabotaging something that could be deeply special for both of us.
At first I was very confused and sometimes angry. We met for lunch and while I was far from aggressive, I was clearly hurt and communication was awkward. I told her I felt I'd been really jerked around, given all the indications that had been given to me about this thing being serious and longterm. Due to her sensitivity to anything resembling criticism this only confirmed her sense that she was making the right decision. She told me she had been on a date, and when I registered my hurt feelings she sadly said: "We all cope in different ways."
"What's yours?" I asked.
"Avoidance", she said.
Since then the lines of communication have been open and the correspondence we've had has been affectionate, but she has been adamant that it's over. She said that she really tried very hard (which means she did so alone, because she wasn't communicating the loss of connection to me), but that it was a fantasy and that she was simply overcome by doubts about me as a reliable partner.
On the one hand she has seemed fine about all this, but there have been moments when she says things that indicate it's a big deal to her. She started out believing in it so strongly, and then just changed her mind based on seemingly small triggers and deactivation strategies. I suppose I'm maybe just rationalizing being dumped, but it sure seems like avoidant attachment to me.
While I have suffered over this (in ways of which I thought myself no longer capable), the most acute sadness I have felt has been that of grieving for her. I have attempted to let her know that I am trustworthy and dependable and that my love for her is the real deal, but I don't know what else to do. One can't say these things and simply be believed when one is being shouted over by thirty six years of attachment style. Unlike attraction, trust has to be built over time, and I wasn't really given that chance.
She claims to still care about me and to want to be friends in time. She says the connection was real, but couldn't last. She's much more empathetic in her communication over text than her apparent in person coldness would imply, and admitted that the lunch we had really upset her, which had not been at all clear at the time. She says she's no good at hiding her emotions. I find the opposite is true.
What can I do, to care for myself in my distress and to save the relationship (if that is possible or healthy), but also so as to truly love and support this person?
Thank you if you can help"
And later, this further comment:
"I have great ambivalence about this situation. On the one hand, I recognize that this person clearly has major attachment trauma. On the other hand, I also know this relationship was actually very important to her. This is the first time in a very long time that she has "tried". Her friends were excited. Her Mom was happy about it. Everyone was thrilled, and then deeply disappointed when she ended it. She desperately wanted a normal life and a real relationship. She just didn't have the self awareness to understand what was happening when her attachment style kicked in, because as far as I know she doesn't even know attachment styles exist. Her deactivation strategies all came into play as a consequence of a lack of trust and a sense she was going to be let down, but the irony is she had actually found a man with a largely secure attachment who was likely to be understanding and patient about such matters and could have provided a secure base from which to make progress. Unfortunately it took me a while to realize what was happening, because she's very self reliant and seems strong and assertive, which made it difficult to recognize the enormous vulnerability that was being expressed. The point is that, yes, I'm hurt, but I also feel great sympathy for her, and I genuinely want to help, while also being wise. Of course as I'm still attached there's a large part of me that wants the relationship back, but if she were to ask I would be extremely cautious as I know it would all simply repeat again unless she gets the help she needs.
All of which is to say, my distress isn't merely about my own broken heart, though that's a significant part of it. It's also about not wanting to abandon someone and play a role in her perpetual self fulfilling prophecy of abandonment. How in God's name do you help an avoidant? If someone has an anxious attachment then reassuring them over time seems like more of a prospect as they're more likely to stay engaged, but an avoidant runs for the hills at the first sign of pain, deactivating and rationalizing and talking about how things "just won't work".
It's sad, you guys."
What do you think? Does this person sound fearfully avoidant? Did she just lose interest, or is it attachment trauma? What are the best ways to really be there for her in a stable way so I can provide the kind of benefit you both seem to have been capable of?
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