sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by sam on Jun 22, 2017 7:19:49 GMT
Does anyone think avoidants change as they get older or does each failed experience caused them to become more avoidant.
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Post by joanneg on Jun 22, 2017 7:32:48 GMT
I have no idea. Surely as their friends/colleagues/social circle develop relationships, start families etc. it makes them more committed?
Thats what I would think however I dont have any personal experience.
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sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by sam on Jun 22, 2017 8:19:02 GMT
I guess maybe they would be more committed due to necessity because their friends are settling down and are less available rather than because they really want to. When my exs friend got married last year he said he was only doing it because his girlfriend wanted to.
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Post by mrscuba on Jun 23, 2017 23:44:33 GMT
Does anyone think avoidants change as they get older or does each failed experience caused them to become more avoidant. I have recently realized I've dated a few avoidants in my time, most recently and most insightful was my ex gf... she has admitted that she would have never been able to even try to form a connection with someone that is loving and caring like me when she was in her 20's and early 30's. She's in her her early 40's now and has admitted how with she has been confident to let her guard down and be more vilnerable but clearly she still flaked on me and ended things but she is now very close to me. I have other avoidants I know that are friends (both male and female) and they admit that after they hit 30 they started to change more and be more "brave" with allowing people to get more close to them. They saw the world pass by them and as they saw ex lovers find happiness and make families they sort of started to feel and maybe realize there was something not completely right. It's different for everyone but those are the common things I learned from my avoidant peeps :-)
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Post by bravocharlie on Aug 29, 2017 21:47:10 GMT
I am female and have recently been on the receiving end of an apparent F-A ending our budding relationship (same-sex) as we started to get close, and i was blindsided by her cold, analytical withdrawal. This was my first overt experience with this dynamic. It made me research and discover this "Attachment Theory" stuff.
She is 60 years old. She has a dog as her constant companion, I assume something to cuddle that won't demand anything tricky of her, such as emotional interactions; a project to focus on that also provides a buffer between her and direct interaction with another person.
This experience made me reflect on a previous unrequited experience, with a woman in her mid 50's. She also got two dogs to distract her from her inner emptiness and loneliness, I realize. Same experience being rebuffed before we really got started, but less harsh. ...As someone else mentioned, their F-A seemed to have the emotional intelligence of a 15-year-old. I see that as well.
These are women who are comfortable being alone and independent. While they may feel somewhat unnerved that they are unable to partner, it is not enough for them to get introspective about it and realize there is something wrong. This most recent one says she has friends over socially, who are all partnered, and she is apparently the single one. Maybe it is affecting her. .
..I don't know--maybe I was a step in the right direction for both of them--at least I was someone who was (I think) secure, and not a dismissive, as it seems they were drawn to prior to myself, from what they shared with me; though i suspect they go back and forth.
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Post by howpredictable on Aug 29, 2017 22:29:02 GMT
She is 60 years old. She has a dog as her constant companion, I assume something to cuddle that won't demand anything tricky of her, such as emotional interactions ... a woman in her mid 50's. She also got two dogs to distract her from her inner emptiness and loneliness, I realize. I can only go by my 3+ year relationship with a man in his mid-50s. He had a terrible dating history (consisting of only 2 to 3-month connections). He also had two dogs that were his constant companions, and when I joked that they were the best "relationships" he has (over and above the one with me, and with his own kids), he -- without hesitation -- agreed completely and with all seriousness. I think that the relatively late addition of those dogs to his life will distract him from ever realizing there might be something unusual in his style of relating, or in seeing the need to work on himself. Incidentally, he also used those dogs often as an excuse to get out of social situations and, as our dating relationship started to run its course, as a sudden excuse to avoid having to see me or sleep over.
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Post by bravocharlie on Aug 29, 2017 22:56:51 GMT
Yes, in reading around on this forum, I should feel grateful I didn't get drawn in to a long-term relationship with this woman. It seemed to play out quickly, and I realized that she had "issues" by her breaking this off abruptly and coldly. Very glad I came across Attachment Theory to explain this, though, or I would have suffered longer. Still, it is a hurtful sting to endure, for anyone with a heart...and sad, for anyone with compassion, to see the other person in this lonely prison. ...And those glimpses and memories of the brief moments of them being vulnerable and happy ("in love?") with you--it's like crack, to keep you pursuing this impossible dream, as we see with the many posts here by those who have been on the receiving end of this dynamic.
...With the first woman, about five years ago...I was at her house (which she admitted was the first time she'd had anyone over, other than her daughter), and she looked at her DOG and said, with respect to me, "I hope she'll stay, don't you?" (?!) ...Oh, the trail of clues I now see that point to this F-A dynamic!
She would say these types of things, apropos of nothing, and then carry on as if it hadn't been said. I started wondering if I had only imagined these things she'd said, since the rest of our interaction was maddeningly more as "acquaintances," I would say.
The dogs were late additions in both of these women's lives, after the project of raising children was over. This recent one is retired and has made a serious hobby out of taking the dog to the dog park, almost every day. She talked about the different couples that regularly brought their dogs there and with whom she chats. ...She perhaps is hoping for a similar arrangement, with a partner who will focus on the dog, rather than directly on her.
I did ask this recent woman "Is the dog always with you?" regarding her always having to bring the dog anywhere we went...which now I assume she silently perceived as just one more "judgment" from me, that added up to her judicious assessment via email that we weren't suited for each other because our "thought processes" were different.
EDIT: on the other hand, these women may be closer to Dismissives. This is still a murky distinction to me. The posts on the DA thread sound relatable in many ways.
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Post by gaynxious on Aug 29, 2017 23:13:55 GMT
I saw a study somewhere that showed most people get more avoidant as they get older but I don't remember the title or author.
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Post by meimei on Aug 31, 2017 19:25:14 GMT
I know a couple in their early twenties who are working on their attachment styles and also know folks in their mid forties who claim they'd rather give up relationships altogether than have to go through the hard work of being more securely attached. An avoidant avoids and so while he or she may have vulnerable moments of seeing how his or her behavior and negative internal dialog affects the ability to bond and feel genuinely, mutually fulfilled in a relationship, the next day is a new day and often times he or she goes back to what comes easy - avoiding, and being preoccupied with work, hobbies, etc. In my opinion, changing ones attachment style to being a secure requires a level of mindfulness and being self aware. I think it may be more difficult for older avoidants to change simply because its been ingrained in them for so long but definitely not always the case. Maturity and the ability to self reflect and have empathy, I feel would be more the deciding factors. Also, being able to see past failures as a learning experience rather than just a failure, is important to building a more positive attitude that promotes self growth.
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Post by rufflesgirl on Aug 31, 2017 22:53:50 GMT
I think unless someone is dead set on changing themselves, and healing, it doesn't matter what age, things just regress. Its like a car. You need a constant tune up, even for secure people. So for FA, DA, and AP, it may be something that you have to work on for a long time, if not indefinitely.
But without that awareness, or the willingness to change, they give up. its the same reason you see mostly AP or secure on this site. Most FAs and DAs don't/can't do the work, its too hard and too scary.
I thank the FAs and Das who are on here and who are willing to look at themselves and learn. its a hard and brave thing to do... I have so much compassion for them.
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Post by jaleesa on Sept 1, 2017 10:06:01 GMT
I don't think they change with age, unless they seek professional help and stick to it. Changing your core beliefs is very difficult and requires dedication and sacrifice. I believe that change only happens when the fear of staying the same is greater than the fear of changing, so as long as they're more "comfortable" with avoiding and "enablers" will stay around them, nothing really happens. Plus they need to admit they have problems in the first place and most avoidants are just not this self-aware. And even if self-aware: this is not enough to make lasting changes. You have to make adjustments in order to be able to respond differently and it can take years of hard work before fully integrated.
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Betty
New Member
Posts: 36
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Post by Betty on Sept 1, 2017 13:36:05 GMT
I don't think they change with age, unless they seek professional help and stick to it. Changing your core beliefs is very difficult and requires dedication and sacrifice. I believe that change only happens when the fear of staying the same is greater than the fear of changing, so as long as they're more "comfortable" with avoiding and "enablers" will stay around them, nothing really happens. Plus they need to admit they have problems in the first place and most avoidants are just not this self-aware. And even if self-aware: this is not enough to make lasting changes. You have to make adjustments in order to be able to respond differently and it can take years of hard work before fully integrated. Jaleesa, That is so bizarre that you used the quote, "change only happens when the fear of staying the same is greater than the fear of changing". My ex actually used this same quote this past week when he was over. We were talking about somebody else we know. I asked him later if he could see how ironic that was, or if he just disconnected from that for himself. He's an FA, and he's very self aware, so I'm sure he knows, its just a matter of not being able to seek help, and do the really hard work to unearth his early trauma. Your right, i think when your the SO of an avoidant, your the one who sees through most of the mask. Like, if you care enough, you can do some research and understand better. its just for most of the time, its after the relationship has ended, and most people are shocked or need to know what happened. Its very sad that what is really going on can't be named or talked about within the relationship. that would mean real healing would have to go on.
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Post by jaleesa on Sept 2, 2017 8:06:39 GMT
I don't think they change with age, unless they seek professional help and stick to it. Changing your core beliefs is very difficult and requires dedication and sacrifice. I believe that change only happens when the fear of staying the same is greater than the fear of changing, so as long as they're more "comfortable" with avoiding and "enablers" will stay around them, nothing really happens. Plus they need to admit they have problems in the first place and most avoidants are just not this self-aware. And even if self-aware: this is not enough to make lasting changes. You have to make adjustments in order to be able to respond differently and it can take years of hard work before fully integrated. Jaleesa, That is so bizarre that you used the quote, "change only happens when the fear of staying the same is greater than the fear of changing". My ex actually used this same quote this past week when he was over. We were talking about somebody else we know. I asked him later if he could see how ironic that was, or if he just disconnected from that for himself. He's an FA, and he's very self aware, so I'm sure he knows, its just a matter of not being able to seek help, and do the really hard work to unearth his early trauma. Your right, i think when your the SO of an avoidant, your the one who sees through most of the mask. Like, if you care enough, you can do some research and understand better. its just for most of the time, its after the relationship has ended, and most people are shocked or need to know what happened. Its very sad that what is really going on can't be named or talked about within the relationship. that would mean real healing would have to go on. Yes, it is very sad. Some may know something is wrong, I think my ex did on some level, but when we talked about going to therapy, one day he would say "I think it would be helpful" and the next day he would say "why would I do that? I'm not crazy!". As an AP I'm currently in therapy and I have to admit, it is very very hard and it triggers my avoidant tendencies. Everytime I go there I shit my pants because I'm so scared, so sometimes I just want to run away and never look back. I cry a lot. I get angry a lot. And I can only imagine that this is probably how DAs/FAs feel on the inside 24/7 when they're in a relationship. They want to be there, but it triggers them so much that they rather just walk away. It really is the easiest way out and I understand that now, it's just not beneficial in the longrun.
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Post by leavethelighton on Sept 29, 2017 23:32:46 GMT
I think it totally depends on the person. Some people want to find their way into a healthier relationship, some don't. So can, some can't. Personally I would like to get better at it, but I don't really know the map to get there.
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