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Post by ocarina on Jul 19, 2019 6:05:56 GMT
My long term relationship with an extremely avoidant partner which had cycled on and off soooo many times, has been placed firmly in the friend zone by me, as self preservation against the painful inconsistency which swung from obsessive declarations of love to disappearance on his side again and again. ]We were seeing each other regularly as friends but a few recent incidences of him not showing up when I really needed help and support have made me question even this. I know part of this is touching on old wounds both from this relationship and the past and I want to heal from this in a healthy way. I can feel myself avoiding him - because even in friendship his inability to be there had left me struggling to trust. I don’t like my behavior - we see each other weekly at a shared activity and I’m now struggling to engage at all. My mother is and was a very unavailable and inconsistent caregiver and my behavior towards her is similar- she has hurt me so many times by not being there that I now default to detached avoidance when she’s around. I want to be authentic honest and present in all areas of my life and this feels like a defensive and childish step back. Thoughts please
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 11:13:13 GMT
My long term relationship with an extremely avoidant partner which had cycled on and off soooo many times, has been placed firmly in the friend zone by me, as self preservation against the painful inconsistency which swung from obsessive declarations of love to disappearance on his side again and again. ]We were seeing each other regularly as friends but a few recent incidences of him not showing up when I really needed help and support have made me question even this. I know part of this is touching on old wounds both from this relationship and the past and I want to heal from this in a healthy way. I can feel myself avoiding him - because even in friendship his inability to be there had left me struggling to trust. I don’t like my behavior - we see each other weekly at a shared activity and I’m now struggling to engage at all. My mother is and was a very unavailable and inconsistent caregiver and my behavior towards her is similar- she has hurt me so many times by not being there that I now default to detached avoidance when she’s around. I want to be authentic honest and present in all areas of my life and this feels like a defensive and childish step back. Thoughts please Is there an alternative to your thinking/behavior that you think would be healthier, or in your best interest? Do you feel obliged to remain in the relationship or do you truly want to? Does the friendship have merits , or is it part of a dysfunctional cycle of yours, being in unavailable relationships? Is this a matter of not communicating your truth or not knowing what your truth is? I'm just asking questions to try to help you know your heart and mind here. What do you want to do that you aren't doing? What do you not want in your life that you are allowing? If you met this person today, would you pursue a relationship or is this an unhealthy attachment whose time has expired and which has taught you what you needed about yourself to move on and be healthier? Is there a point in having a discussion about this with this person, or are you flogging a dead horse to do so? |
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Post by ocarina on Jul 19, 2019 11:52:11 GMT
So - I can see this is avoidance on my part - his flakiness hurts me and my avoidant reaction is to run - and literally to turn away.
Now the relationship was not a healthy one - and my leaving was absolutely the right thing and I do not want to reconcile - although we remain close and have a connection which is rare - probably as two avoidants we kind of get each other. I feel some shame that even as a friend his behaviour knocks into my sore spots.
My truth I suppose is that I don't want to be the last minute option any more, to be with someone who claims to love me but then disappears for weeks, who I spend and evening of intense connection with and enjoy time together - only for him to hardly speak to me next time we meet. It is destabilising and I don't want that.
I also don't want to behave like a child, driven by old patterns and avoiding and not speaking about these things. I am playing my own part in this dynamic I know and I don't like that. I also know I have been allowing his behaviour by going along with his inconsistency when I feel good - but then suddenly withdrawing when something hurts - without communicating it.
The thing is - should a friendship be this complicated? I have plenty of other close friends with whom I have cultivated real availability and this kind of drama dynamic is absent. It's never happened in any other relationship I have had either.
I would certainly not pursue a relationship with this person today - and not continue for so long in the hope that things would change. I think a discussion would be flogging a dead horse - so I have no hope that he will change but I do think that for my own healing owning what's going on would help and being able to be open rather than walling myself off automatically. Does this need communicating with him or not? I'm not sure.
My relationship with my mother is so similar and I mourn that this is the case - but despite this feel kind of trapped in avoidance so to speak. Some people have said this is healthy - but I am not so sure - I feel that it's just skirting round the issue - and it's certainly a pattern in my life and a learnt behaviour.
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Post by anne12 on Jul 19, 2019 12:13:32 GMT
Do You know the two chair anger exercise That I have posted ?
If You could speak Up what would You say to This Guy and maybe also to your mother ?
Can You Write IT down maybe ?
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Post by ocarina on Jul 19, 2019 12:14:37 GMT
The other part may be the discomfort I have in feeling needy - I am after all totally self sufficient and independent and need nobody (tongue in cheek). So having requirements of people feels totally alien. Especially friends - I don't feel like this with my other friends ever - but mind you, they don't swing between intimacy (emotional) and disappearance.
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Post by ocarina on Jul 19, 2019 12:15:54 GMT
Do You know the two chair anger exercise That I have posted ? If You could speak Up what would You say to This Guy and maybe also to your mother ? Can You Write IT down maybe ? Thank you anne12 I will look it up - and think on this. Will post more later. |
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Post by anne12 on Jul 19, 2019 12:31:23 GMT
You can not change his brain - You know ? But You always have the RIGHT to speak Up and set boundaries in a mindfull way, always have the right to ask for what You want and end Something That is not good for You - You have a choise.... Some inspiration |
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Post by alexandra on Jul 19, 2019 19:56:20 GMT
ocarina, if he's given you many reasons to feel insecure in your friendship (you're not just getting triggered through your own projections), why are you feeling like asserting yourself when your friendship needs aren't being met is a negative thing? You can both be DA (or earned secure with some DA tendencies) and still have a secure-with-each-other friendship. Since the friendship is still insecure, as he's giving you reasons to feel insecurely attached through his inconsistency, is it so bad that you want to distance yourself from something that's challenging your boundaries in a bad way (versus a healthy, out of comfort zone growth and trusting way)? What do you think a secure response to his behavior would be? I feel like the only difference may be saying something to him about why you're taking space before you do it. But after everything you've been through, and how many times you may have already had that conversation, I can also see why you'd be frustrated enough to maybe want to skip bringing it up if it won't productively change anything. But, it's still worth doing if it would allow you to feel like you've communicated well and protected your boundaries in an open way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 20:26:22 GMT
ocarina , at one time you made yourself available as last minute option. You don't like how that feels. Now you can decline, sat why, and keep it simple. You can say what you think or feel and what you want to do about it, you can excuse yourself politely from the friendship and wish him the best, you can take care of your behavior and stop doing what doesn't feel good. No, friendship with another need not be painful and complicated. Also, taking care of yourself need not be. This idea that you are independent is not the issue, in my mind. Self respect and living in ways aligned with your values is independent and healthy- if you want to push the independent idea. Really, it's not about what he is doing it is about what you are participating in. If you really bring it back to you, you can decide to be independently healthy instead of participating in a friendship that doesn't afford you basic courtesy. Courtesy toward the self can mean, accept your natural self here and stop labeling yourself needy or independent. Just be good to you. You teach people how to treat you but how can you do that if you don't even listen to yourself and always second guess yourself? Are you not sure of what you want in a friendship?
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Post by ocarina on Jul 19, 2019 21:04:00 GMT
ocarina , if he's given you many reasons to feel insecure in your friendship (you're not just getting triggered through your own projections), why are you feeling like asserting yourself when your friendship needs aren't being met is a negative thing? You can both be DA (or earned secure with some DA tendencies) and still have a secure-with-each-other friendship. Since the friendship is still insecure, as he's giving you reasons to feel insecurely attached through his inconsistency, is it so bad that you want to distance yourself from something that's challenging your boundaries in a bad way (versus a healthy, out of comfort zone growth and trusting way)? What do you think a secure response to his behavior would be? I feel like the only difference may be saying something to him about why you're taking space before you do it. But after everything you've been through, and how many times you may have already had that conversation, I can also see why you'd be frustrated enough to maybe want to skip bringing it up if it won't productively change anything. But, it's still worth doing if it would allow you to feel like you've communicated well and protected your boundaries in an open way. I find it difficult to say these things and somehow in a friendship it seems un reasonable. None of my other friendships require this level of management - but I have in the past put big distance suddenly between myself and people who make me feel uncomfortable - often without explaining why to them and that isn't healthy.
I don't expect a conversation to change the outcome but I do feel that it would be the honest and brave thing to do and yet I shrink from it because it's a difficult conversation.
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Post by ocarina on Jul 19, 2019 21:13:26 GMT
ocarina , at one time you made yourself available as last minute option. You don't like how that feels. Now you can decline, sat why, and keep it simple. You can say what you think or feel and what you want to do about it, you can excuse yourself politely from the friendship and wish him the best, you can take care of your behavior and stop doing what doesn't feel good. No, friendship with another need not be painful and complicated. Also, taking care of yourself need not be. This idea that you are independent is not the issue, in my mind. Self respect and living in ways aligned with your values is independent and healthy- if you want to push the independent idea. Really, it's not about what he is doing it is about what you are participating in. If you really bring it back to you, you can decide to be independently healthy instead of participating in a friendship that doesn't afford you basic courtesy. Courtesy toward the self can mean, accept your natural self here and stop labeling yourself needy or independent. Just be good to you. You teach people how to treat you but how can you do that if you don't even listen to yourself and always second guess yourself? Are you not sure of what you want in a friendship? I do second guess myself too much.
I also have participated in this friendship for so long that I KNOW it's not going to change and I also recognise that being let down hurts - it triggers all kinds of old stuff in me that I need to deal with - infact perhaps in that way it's a blessing.
I am uber conflict avoidant and also, as a friend, don't feel it's really my business to ask for more contact etc etc, The tricky part is that when we are together the intimacy remains - we are very close, intellectually similar and it is clear that we both love each other still - but outside of that the communication issues and intimacy issues that have blighted our relationship remain exactly the same.
I can't say there's no courtesy - but the complexity of a friendship mixed with romantic love with communication difficulties really doesn't serve me well. Sadly. I wish I could be super cool and accept whatever comes, but at the moment I am not there. Strange because I genuinely don't want romantic reconciliation - I just want an open, honest and communicative friendship and that seems not to be possible. After I told him I didn't want a physical relationship I tried to be a more active participant in our friendship - inviting him out to do things, meet, telling him when I was free but often there was no reply or a very delayed no - and that hurt.
I feel I am done - and maybe it's enough to let the friendship just drift away - but I would like, if I have the chance, to explain how I feel - no blame - but I've learnt that being open is so much better than trying to run away....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 2:43:49 GMT
So ocarina, it sounds like while you are unhappy with the dysfunctional dynamic, you are accepting that that is what it is and it's not good for you. In the habit of avoidance, you've been - avoiding - but you recognize it as a regression and would like to handle it in a way that's more in line with the growth you've had. What you have come to understand, is that you really value openness and communication in a friendship. I have found, that it is possible for me to practice being who I would like to be, open, emotionally honest, even if it is in the form of a goodbye to someone who is unable to reciprocate. Some of my most vulnerable but proud moments in my growth have been to honor my own feelings in a way that doesn't involve blame, just admitting what I need and am determined to find- with someone who could not meet me where I had hoped they could. And then to part ways, being secure in myself, and not slipping into avoidance even during a goodbye. |
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Post by ocarina on Jul 20, 2019 21:12:09 GMT
So ocarina , it sounds like while you are unhappy with the dysfunctional dynamic, you are accepting that that is what it is and it's not good for you. In the habit of avoidance, you've been - avoiding - but you recognize it as a regression and would like to handle it in a way that's more in line with the growth you've had. What you have come to understand, is that you really value openness and communication in a friendship. I have found, that it is possible for me to practice being who I would like to be, open, emotionally honest, even if it is in the form of a goodbye to someone who is unable to reciprocate. Some of my most vulnerable but proud moments in my growth have been to honor my own feelings in a way that doesn't involve blame, just admitting what I need and am determined to find- with someone who could not meet me where I had hoped they could. And then to part ways, being secure in myself, and not slipping into avoidance even during a goodbye. Yes - this exactly.
None of this is about him it's all about my own reaction - something of a subconscious reactivity spilling over into avoidance that I can feel is unhealthy and regressive.
My mind dose sometimes chunter on about blame and blah blah blah but underneath that isn't the real issue - it's my own default wall building that I can now observe and see as unhealthy. Sure he's doing the same - but that's not my business, it's my unhealthy pattern that needs owning.
Now seeing it more clearly I do need to communicate this rather than just vanishing - particularly since we see each other weekly and live close by and it's an elephant in the room at the moment which isn't serving me. I will be honest with him in the same way that I have been with you all here - and he can do what he does with that.
Thank you for letting me work this through. I think like most challenging situations it will lead to growth.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 22:04:58 GMT
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Post by 8675309 on Jul 21, 2019 9:31:52 GMT
Just tell him like it is.
And sometimes we have to cut out people, just reality. People come into our life for a reason, a season or a lifetime to teach us lessons. You've learned them and on a path to healing. He 'severed his purpose' in your life and now time to move on. You can be friends from a far.
Part of this is about him, hes not a trustworthy friend, he dips out on you. Its not like it wouldn't trigger a Secure either. This type of behavior is just triggering to people in general not just some attachment thing.
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