Dismissive Deactivation: Freeze State

toorational , do you know what her parental relationship were like? My mother was (functionally, I guess) mentally ill undiagnosed, and it resulted in her secluding herself in her room while she studied lots of things (she had some conspiracy theory interests and her own brand of deep spiritual psychology that had her linking psychological works to the bible, she was very cerebral and emotionally removed. I feel like I rarely saw her. My father was an alcoholic and absent- I saw him rarely and when I did he wasn't well.
So they were both just unavailable- my house felt so empty, and we children just seemed to do our own thing a lot. Every day coming home from school felt like coming home to an empty house, but she was there behind her door. When we got older she pushed her theories on us incessantly and it felt really intrusive, because she knew better than any of us what was going on inside of us, according to her. Because she spent hours studying psychology and spirituality.

We went without a lot of care and interaction that I saw in other households. It was just kind of dismal feeling from what I remember.

Ah, I'm glad you found it helpful. I have myself experienced fight/ flight at times in my life, but the shut down, suppressed state is more common and familiar to me, that is how stress manifests for me in my body. As a result, or because of it, solitude limits the sensory and interpersonal input that can overwhelm me. I was recently at a work conference with a large amount of people engaging in constant discussion and sharing, and it was extremely difficult for me- I am not the only person it affected negatively but I saw a lot of people energized and seeming to do well with it. It mystified me how they could engage that deep that long without shutting down- but that's because our systems are very different in how they respond to our environment and interactions.

I'm sure it has to do with just being conditioned that way. Some people grow up in very interactive households and I'm sure that high engagement is just normal for them. Anyway, I bring that all up because I am actually in kind of retreat and rest mode and I've just been reflecting on that a lot. I kind of envy the ability to be really in the mix of things and be comfortable, but I never have been. I think there are probably a lot more people like that than I realize but I tend to feel like the odd one. I'm working with that.

My daughter (one of them) is also avoidant and we actually have a close relationship, odd as that seems? She's in her late teens and when either of us is shut down we like to take some time for quiet, positive interaction that includes talking about gratitude, or enjoying nature, or some very simple pleasure at a slow pace. That lifts the weight of shut down pretty easily if it's just overwhelm and not a major emotional stressor.

That might be something you could try with your GF if you feel like you want to- if you notice she is withdrawn, perhaps you could bring some simple, parallel joy to her. I don't know if you know what I mean, but if you were able to not take it personally and realize that she is feeling suppressed and somewhat hampered because of her nervous system, you might be able to be a good comfort by just being present with kind energy, a generous and thankful energy. That helps me a lot- quiet companionship. My tendency is to just go get by myself when I'm in that place but honestly, if I'm isolating because of internal stress the stress just lasts longer.

You can do some reading about polyvagal theory and engaging in positive and compassionate social interaction can actually help lift a person out of freeze and shut down, and it doesn't really take too long.

I didn't know that for years because I just alone- I never thought to reach out and didn't really have anyone I trusted to help me.

I do (and I believe will always) really enjoy solitude but that is different from feeling shut down and isolating. It's like the light vs dark end of the spectrum of my dismissive experience. I now know the value of positive interactions with healthy people and it does help me be happy.

anne, I feel that you have completely derailed the thread I was starting to familiarize people with the freeze response.

I know you really really want to encourage people to get through trauma, but you seem to be really missing the point here.

That list also contains "inability to move body parts" which is not something I experience. I didn't emphasize or care about the listing of shame, as I believe it is common to all insecure attachment. I have seen that written by experts as well. The only shame I experience is the inability to be in a capacity to be "normal" due to the freeze response itself. It is my worst nightmare to have it interrupt my life at a critical time. I am traumatized by freeze like AP are traumatized by their anxiety attacks- because I don't have control of it at some times, as I would like.

So please, understand that I get it with the trauma piece and I have worked through trauma and I personally don't need you always pointing me to disorganized because I am AWARE by now that all attachment styles have a bit of this and that and honestly, I don't think there is a human on the planet who hasn't experienced trauma. I have seen the list of things that cause it and it's the normal human experience- you even include getting braces on one's teeth as a source. So ok. Disorganized is in probably everyone to some degree even if 1% - I get that and you have said it many times.

I do not know why you chose to divert the thread this way. Over one word. I do not. I have mentioned here I was only trying to illuminate the freeze response AS OPPOSED TO THE HYPERAROUSED STATES. Because some people really may not know about it or have experience with it.

I also said the trigger can be a good indicator of what someone is reacting to- if it is trauma or typical avoidance. And, in the end, freeze is still freeze, and freeze is what I was pointing at, not the trigger.

There are lists here that don't include the word shame, there are lists with different wording. That is NOT MY POINT.

Thank you for finally communicating. You mention that you post when you feel like it and type fast and all that and that is why your posts turn out the way they do. Can you see that the same might be true for me, posting a list about freeze late at night and not zeroing in on the word shame in the list? I posted it even though it said I couldn't move body parts also. Do you even get my point?

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And, since you yourself realize that your posting is fast, disorganized, and not fully translated, why on EARTH did you respond the way you did asking HOW LOW CAN YOU GO when I mentioned it? And call it drama? ?!
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That is your drama.


Anyway- I think everyone has trauma including me- but I am not unfamiliar with trauma work, and I am quite familiar with my dismissive response and when and how it occurs. You are not the only person who knows and has consulted with experts, and I hope you can leave room for another person's experience here.

Thanks for the clarity and please also respect my response. !

I intended this thread to inform about the freeze response not to microanalyze my attachment style which I am sure has a tiny bit of disorganized as I have had braces on me teeth and also trauma.

I believe you are aware that the sympathetic response involves symptoms that can be triggered by many things in a day also- most people are aware of the physical symptoms of hyperarousal but many are not as aware of hypoarousal and is MUCH LESS DISCUSSED as a reaction to threats. People hear "fight or flight" more than they hear "fight flight or freeze". Fawn is much less known and I posted about that as well in another thread to familiarize people with THAT response.

I hope I have made myself clear to you, and I want to sum up by saying I am trying to educate people about the different nervous system responses to threat.

Thank you for understanding that the point of the thread was to help people understand freeze as a response, so they can hopefully understand their partner better and recognize if it happens.

I love your input in this forum but was very confused about the nature of it this time. Thanks for understanding where I am coming from.

I think you are starting to see it- that freeze response can be subtle just like anxiety can be subtle- or strong. Both are distressed states. The dismissive system over regulates and goes into a more HYPO arousal, influenced by the parasympathetic system- but the Stress branch of the PNS- not the happy relaxed branch. (Dorsal vs Ventral Vagal).

There is a risk of overwhelm and stress with too much engagement especially if it is of a personal nature, or is somehow uncomfortable. Extroversion and Introversion plays in, as well as many other traits and circumstances of a person's individual makeup. For me, it is the difference of what kind of interaction is expected, on what level of interpersonal intimacy, and for how long, and what it means to me personally to be participating. For example, I am actually extroverted and introverted- there are all kinds of ways to describe the personality from that perspective. But this was an event that had an expectation of close interpersonal involvement sharing personal things (Sounds weird but it is the nature of what we were doing).

As to her sharing- it doesn't take much for a dismissive to feel like they have spilled their guts. I didn't realize how much my current partner didn't know about what was going on in me or information about my life until some time into the relationship- and at about three years I still make revelations to him that had just not occurred to me before but in the realm of intimate relationships these things I keep inside are no brainers. Openness is something I have to practice and when I am expected to reveal what I feel is too much, too soon, I do deactivate and shut down. In the case of the work gathering, I was pulled back observing the interactions and I felt really uncomfortable and it made me self conscious because I am really aware of my traits by now and I feel I would like to participate but need a slower pace.

My pace would obstruct the process and time constraints. Lol.

When it comes down to the basics of dismissive attachment, DA learned from an early age to self-soothe and the nervous system helps out with that, it's kind of an instinctive response to retreat and numb out with stressors. It's very interesting to me that even with a typical life stressor I may feel a PiNG of a an anxiety response and it is quickly switched to a deactivation (suppressed state) rather than an activation (aroused anxious state). Sometimes it seems conscious like a choice to divert attention and distance myself from the stressful input (I may literally avert my eyes from something that causes me some internal stress and say to myself "THATS ENOUGH OF THAT FOR NOW" and sort of turn off my attention to it.... or, if it is a pain about my relationship insecurity I may feel a pinch in my chest that fears loss, and then I go down into a more parasympathetic state, if I am unsure how to resolve my relational pain. )

I would say,, if you really love her, try hard to see how she is trying to bond with you. Your threads describe behaviors and activities on her part that speak to me as a dismissive, that she really is putting herself into this as best as she can. I know that the distance feels very threatening but that, too, I understand. It can help a LOT if you realize that as you feel that anxiety, she does also- but in a VERY DIFFERENT, OPPOSITE nervous system response that has her withdrawing. I can not really describe the emotional feeling of it, but I posted the descriptions of the freeze state to try to help you understand it.

Our emotions get suppressed in the freeze response- it is automatic and a result of mental and physiological responses and it takes some time to resolve back to a "normal" operating emotional state. I'm sure you can relate to that with your anxiety as well. You need soothing from her, and it will be difficult for you to learn to soothe yourself appropriately. Conversely, she can benefit from depending more on you with intimacy and comfort--- and it will be VERY challenging for her to learn how to do that and override her shut down response- but I am living proof that it can be done. In small steps.

I would not mind at all to continue talking with you about this, as you are aware now that it takes adjustment on your side. I am still working to override my internal obstacles to intimacy and I could share my perspectives which also can shed light for you on hers, that's ok because it helps me to process what I still work on. I'm not thinking I can mind read her or that I will be absolutely right because people are different in a lot of ways- but any understanding you can have of the shut down response can perhaps encourage you to work on your own activated response, recognizing that BOTH stress responses are an obstacle to healthy relating.

Also- as to the point of your girlfriend being able to engage for long periods of time with a friend without shutting down.
So can I. The difference is that my close friends don't trigger me because it's not a romantic relationship (the kind most likely to trigger our attachment) . Groups of strangers also don't necessarily trigger my attachment, but the element of unfamiliarity, outside expectations, trust not established, and simple overwhelm of so many people with so many voices and inputs and personalities can get to me because it feels threatening to my autonomy, actually! I am ok in a crowd where I can be anonymous or not expected to be or do a certain thing. But with the demands of interaction and relating in the group,, I shut down because I just didn't have time to get comfortable in the dynamic. It was a plunge into deeper stuff and I just struggled.

I knew it would be challenging, I coped with it. Lots of others engaged socially when the days were done, and bonded and whatnot. I went back to my room and stopped all the input so I could just be in my own space. Individuals vary on how much solitary space they need to take care of themselves and my need is very high. I do practice ways to stay integrated but it's a process.

I think it's extremely admirable the fact that you have kindly shared and candidly opened up this amount of useful information especially here on this forum.

Many of us don't and can't understand what happens especially from a DA's perspective. So now it's out here, it will help us especially AP's to understand what happens.

Thank you again!