faman
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Post by faman on Aug 24, 2019 9:17:09 GMT
I'm not sure where to start here, I feel deeply responsible for whats happened over the last 3 years. My therapist says I shouldnt identify myself as avoidant or anxious or any attachment style and instead should look forward as being secure. I can see the value in that but I keep coming back to this feeling of regret.
I met my partner (now ex) 3 years ago. I've broken up with her around 3-4 times over the 3 year period. Her anxious behaviour was engulfing me and too intense. Its only post the last break up when we both read 'attached' that we could understand what is going on. She still wanted to maintain contact after the break up and I did too, but I justified in my head why we shouldnt speak. Its been around 6 weeks now since we have been out of contact. Throughout that period since we stopped being in contact I have been in continuous pain. I know its selfish to say I wish she was still around in my life, but I broke up with her and caused her so much pain over 3 years that I somewhat believe this is my penance.
I just want to know what other FA'ers have done to move forward in a healthy way and become secure, are there any tried and tested strategies. I really can't enter another relationship being like this, I crave a healthy and happy relationship where the sex doesnt just stop because of too much intimacy. I want to step into the light and away from this constant sinking feeling.
I am feeling a lot of emotion now. During the relationship, my partner would complain i dont show any emotion and that would trigger me and almost push me away further. And then i would come back when it was safe to do so. She really wanted to work on both of us to find a happy place but I just couldnt even let that happen even though we did work hard at it. I was close minded and now I can only look back in regret sadly. I also cant find any fault in her, even though it takes two to tango. But as I see her now, shes almost on a pedestal in my mind.
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faman
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Post by faman on Aug 24, 2019 9:25:06 GMT
Just to add - I've also worked with my therapist and I keep looking at the past in regret and extremely anxious about the future. Its the fear of the unknown that I cannot sit with and possibly why I keep looking at the past and regretting ending things with my ex.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 15:04:05 GMT
Welcome to the forum!
I'd say, after your reading your thread, you have made a lot of good progress. You are aware of your attachment style. You are seeking therapy to address it. You have self awareness and you are taking full responsibility for your actions to your self and with your ex. This says a lot about you. I really admire this thread.
Guilt is a natural emotion and the fact that you are addressing this guilt with your therapist is a good thing. I think you need to forgive yourself.
I don't think you should punish yourself for it though. Continue to address and talk openly with your therapist.
There may come a time when you feel like writing a letter to express your feelings and the action that you have taken to address your attachment style it to your friend. I think if you both were okay to remain as friends - a friendship can exist especially if you are both in a more suitable healthy place to make that work.
Good luck. I really admire your actions.
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faman
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Post by faman on Aug 25, 2019 10:06:21 GMT
Thanks for your reply thatright. Appreciate the sentiment. I just dont know how to forgive myself. I keep ruminating over what I did or didnt do and just cannot see a way out of these thoughts. Should I have remained friends with my ex when she wanted to or was I being selfish and just thinking of my needs? I just want her back now, so badly, I know its only going to be a temporary relief and in a few weeks or months the whole dance starts again. But we really were so connected and similar. Is this co-dependence? Or is it the trauma we are so used to and thats what I am missing? I really cant tell the trees from the wood now.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 25, 2019 18:00:25 GMT
faman, how long have you been with this therapist? Have you ever seen any others? While saying focus on being secure instead of ruminating in the past is a more positive narrative way to approach your issues, I personally find that it's important to acknowledge the past and accept yourself having issues and it being okay as part of the process. This is because insecure attachment styles are generally the result of some kind of childhood situation that was traumatic to your emotional development and need healing. In my opinion, just ignoring that you have maladaptive anxious-avoidant tendencies doesn't extend the re-writing of your narrative and understanding of yourself and identity enough. While FA is more complicated than AP to heal because it comes with two sets of nervous system conditioning to work through, for me, healing my AP required understanding it, sorting through why I had patterns and which thoughts were actually mine versus beliefs that had been projected on me by others as a kid that I'd picked up but actually made no sense as an adult, building up my sense of self and identity consistency by focusing on myself and not on wanting a partner (either wanting back an ex or wanting a new relationship), sitting with myself when triggered anxious so I could understand what was causing it (for AP, it's fear of abandonment), and then practicing more secure behaviors, such as clearly and directly communicating my thoughts and needs even when it was scary. I've read research that re-framing your lifelong narrative can be a very productive step in the process. In my case, understanding attachment theory took a long time but truly helped because I sincerely believe the insecure attachment styles are a normal human defense mechanism response in children for survival and not anyone's fault (well, unless there was really intentional abuse), but as an adult you don't then naturally grow out of it and it no longer serves you. So at that point, you need to say it served its purpose but now I'm going to take responsibility for doing the hard work to grow out of it. Part of that may also be releasing the anger about what happened to cause it. In your case, your awareness is very commendable and an enormous portion of the battle. And you're teetering on the brink of the next step in the process, which is doing the work to address it. That step is very painful but extremely worth it. FA generally shares the AP fear of abandonment (triggering an overactive nervous system that gets flooded with anxiety) and DA fear of engulfment (floods the nervous system in a way that shuts it down, creating distancing and avoidance). Exploring those fears and why they developed may help you disarm them so you can recondition your nervous system to not do either of those responses. However, since you're just at the start and exploring fears will feel scary and uncomfortable and may make you shut down, I'd recommend starting with focusing on yourself, things that make you feel accomplished and good about yourself (truly just things you enjoy doing for yourself, not for accolades or because you think they'll sound impressive to others), and build yourself up so you'll have more strength to endure the crappy parts. Though your feelings for your ex feel very overwhelming and strong right now, and I'm sure you are attached and feeling guilt and shame (FAs feel a LOT of shame in general, very normal), the intensity of all that isn't about your ex. It's projection from your past that's unrelated to your ex. While there are real feelings to deal with under there, if you can put them aside for now to focus on yourself, your perspective will start to change and (as you get more secure), you'll be better equipped to figure out what you want and communicate better and more consistently with your ex. But if you try to engage before you've done the work, you're just restarting the same repetitive cycle that's going to fail and push you further apart. If you feel like you need to say something before you focus on yourself, you can send a brief note that you need some time and space to focus on your issues because you are taking responsibility for your part in this. Not to give hope because you don't know where you'll end up emotionally, but so your ex knows if you go no contact it isn't to be a jerk or a reflection on your feelings about your ex. But you do need to take all focus and put it on yourself and your needs for a while in order to do this work. Again, my disclaimer is I'm not a professional and I'm not recovered FA, though I've dated many still-floundering FAs who weren't able to even get to awareness. I'm just someone who was able to get more secure from AP through lots of hard work. But I hope some of my suggestions help.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 25, 2019 18:17:57 GMT
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faman
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Post by faman on Aug 25, 2019 18:41:45 GMT
Hi Alexandra,
Thank you for taking the time to really explain your view on this.
I have been seeing my therapist since October last year, I had seen a different therapist a few years ago but my 'avoidant' side decided it wasnt for me and there was nothing wrong with me. With this therapist there was an active dialogue right at the start that the moment I feel like leaving him, I should raise this and let him know how i am feeling so we can challenge this and understand why. I will raise that with him and I may have interpreted it wrong but its still a good point to raise. His style of therapy is to help me build a healthy relationship that I can mirror with the rest of the world.
I feel like a lot of what you have said is resonating and almost what I need/want to hear. Why do FA's feel shame? Because that was a real challenge in my relationship, I used to feel a lot of shame/guilt and would feel like my ex was projecting it onto me but actually reading what you said I can see that maybe it was my own!! How can I understand what the intensity is about? It feels like its about her though! I did engage with her last year when I started therapy and this is where I am again (another break up), so you are right, it doesnt make sense to engage for now.
Are there any recovered FA's out there that can share their experiences? It sounds daunting getting to the other side.
Do you have examples of doing things or yourself? I am an extremely high achiever and so everything has to be done with an accolade in mind and when I cant do it, i come crashing. And thats not sustainable in life.
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faman
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Post by faman on Aug 25, 2019 19:13:41 GMT
Thanks anne12, I’m not sure it’s disorganized that I’m Exhibiting - is that what you see based on my post?
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Post by anne12 on Aug 25, 2019 19:33:14 GMT
Oh, I just saw that you posted under the fearfull avoidant section. I believe that most people don't just have one attatchment style, but oftentimes traits from the different attatchmentstyles (some secure). It's a spectrum. But you can have one or two that are dominant in romantic relationships. There are also threads about how to heal dismissive avoidant style and ambivalent style. I do not think attatched explains a lot about FAs ? jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1188/attatchment-style-decription-relying-thetestsWhat does you therapist say ?
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faman
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Post by faman on Aug 25, 2019 20:10:34 GMT
Hi anne
He’s not really said either way, he’s shown me that I exhibit all types of attachment styles in different parts of my life.
Thanks I’ll have a look at those links.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 27, 2019 8:02:57 GMT
I feel like a lot of what you have said is resonating and almost what I need/want to hear. Why do FA's feel shame? Because that was a real challenge in my relationship, I used to feel a lot of shame/guilt and would feel like my ex was projecting it onto me but actually reading what you said I can see that maybe it was my own!! How can I understand what the intensity is about? It feels like its about her though! I did engage with her last year when I started therapy and this is where I am again (another break up), so you are right, it doesnt make sense to engage for now. Are there any recovered FA's out there that can share their experiences? It sounds daunting getting to the other side. Do you have examples of doing things or yourself? I am an extremely high achiever and so everything has to be done with an accolade in mind and when I cant do it, i come crashing. And thats not sustainable in life.
I don't know your background and circumstances, so I can't tell you why exactly you feel shame. But I can tell you that my hypothesis about this is all insecure types experienced a situation where their needs were not being met and they didn't have the proper tools to address it in a healthy way. Usually this happens in childhood. When you're growing up, you kind of just accept whatever your situation is as normal because it's all you know and seems normal to you. However, what this means is when children are put in bad situations and systemically not getting their needs met, they generally end up blaming themselves for not being a good enough child to get what they need, not being "good" enough to receive unconditional love, instead of blaming the adults around for what they lack. You look up to those who are supposed to take care of you when you are a kid, as you aren't developed yet and you kind of have to do that for survival. So if you've gone and internalized that the neglect or inconsistency or chaos or abuse you're receiving is because you're not a good enough child (if you were, the adult caretaker would love you enough to treat you better), you may internalize a lot of shame with it. There are also some parents / adult caretakers that are going to be shaming the child due to the adult's dysfunctions. For example, if you had an adult caretaker who is a narcissist, that narcissist at some point would have used triangulation and comparison to make the child feel less than because that's in a narcissist's toolbox to maintain a feeling of control. Or perhaps, if the child had an adult caretaker who is bipolar or has borderline personality disorder, prone to mania and depression or to impulsive fits and a lack of identity and self-regulation -- maybe the child feels shame that they couldn't fix the person they love or make it better, maybe they blame themselves for the adult's unhappiness and tantrums. Or maybe the child has parents who viciously fight with each other, and the kid wonders if they are to blame. Shame and guilt may follow. So I think it's a combination of a child internalizing that something is "wrong" with them or they'd be unconditionally loved and often when caretakers are dysfunctional they have their own issues causing them to act in unhealthy ways that can cause others to feel shame, especially if those others aren't emotionally developed yet and don't understand.
There also may be religious or "societal expectation" beliefs that may feel shameful if the person doesn't feel like they are living up to whatever ideals. In your case, that may even mean you felt like withdrawing from your girlfriend when you felt like you weren't making her happy enough, because you feel like you weren't doing your duty as a boyfriend or man or partner or however you gauge such things.
Interestingly enough... when I brought up to my long-term FA ex 2.5 years in as our second attempt at a relationship was failing what I'd finally realized were our problems with intimacy (same as you, sex stopped because of too much intimacy)... he used the exact same word you just did. "Daunting." And then ran away (meaning, broke up with me again and gave me the silent treatment for a month, then came back per usual to be friends). Earning secure is daunting, I've been through it. I am not going to sugar-coat it and say it isn't damn hard. You're going to have to face your fears and a lifetime of unhealthy conditioning. It takes concentration, time, and effort, it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back, 3 steps sideways, 1 step back, 2 steps forward -- and it's totally worth it if you can stick with it even when it gets painful and uncomfortable. Neil Strauss wrote a book called "The Truth" that you may find is worth reading. While he doesn't talk about it much in attachment terms, he was an unaware FA in his 40s who almost always dated (and cheated on) APs, and couldn't figure out that he was half the problem. He always thought it was everyone else. The book is about his process to earning secure, and it's long and full of sexual exploits, but it's also a detailed account from a professional writer about what caused his issues and how he eventually got through it... even though it was very daunting and he was in denial for much of the book.
He also does a lot of explaining through example and experience in intensive therapy how you can think you're having an issue with your romantic partner and it turns out it's really got very little if anything to do with your partner, it actually has to do with stuffed down bad feeling surfacing from earlier in your life that are SO stuffed down and disconnected from their origins that you can't even connect the dots unless you really dig into the feelings. They're so covered in other layers, but the true core problems and trauma that needs healing are actually under all that. But that's one reason you don't have consistent feelings for your ex. First you're pushing her away, even if you want to try to work on the relationship, now she's on a pedestal. That has more to do with how you feel about yourself projected and probably unexplained feelings of engulfment more than it has to do with her. I know how odd that sounds when you've never thought of things that way, but this is complicated stuff.
Yes, I have a lot of examples of doing things for myself actually. A lot of them revolve around things I always wanted to do but would make excuses not to do. I started calling myself out on my excuses and taking action and just doing the things. These involved getting involved in a new sport, taking a trip with some solo travel that I'd been thinking about for years (where I had no one to answer to except myself and could spend my days however I wanted), and changing the direction of my career from something impressive to other people that I didn't actually like to trying to pursue goals that were for myself and not because others wanted me to do them (ie family members) or to impress anyone. I accepted almost all social invitations, even if they were for experiences that were going to put me out of my comfort zone. Doing all this helped me focus on a. what I really liked and enjoyed versus doing things to tell others about (to put it another way, not just doing things for the story or the social media post!) b. made me feel confident in my own ability to make decisions for myself and get more familiar with what I wanted while also able to start communicating it c. gain a better and more consistent sense of self that wasn't as filled with holes of insecurity.
A very, very important step in that part of the process was accepting failing. Prior to going through my process, I was conditioned to believe that failure was the WORST thing. It was not a learning opportunity -- you needed to figure out what you were doing before you did it and do it right on the first try. If you didn't, shame would follow! This made it difficult for me to stick with things I wasn't good at quickly, it made it difficult to accept criticism or constructive feedback without getting overly defensive, it made it difficult to have the fortitude to even do the trial and error and figure out what I liked and what I needed! I know that at least AP and FA can have intense fear of failure stemming from their being insecure about themselves and having difficulty self-regulating and self-soothing, so for me at least, unlearning that was part of the process of doing things for myself.
BTW, I think your confusion with anne is that the terms "fearful avoidant" and "disorganized" are sometimes used interchangeably. A fearful avoidant has a disorganized style of trying to get their needs met ie they don't actually have a strategy for it. If you take the Diane Poole Heller attachment assessment, you'll see that FA actually tends to have their attachment style split into quarters. Each type, secure, FA, DA, and AP, will show up around 25% (plus or minus a few points). The other styles will show up with a clear majority in their primary style. So that both reflects the disorganized strategy and also reflects your observation that you show all the attachment styles and behaviors at different times.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 27, 2019 8:12:20 GMT
I also recommend you look up threads started by blacksnow, blacksnow1, and shiningstar, who all started posting as questioning insecures then began working through their process as FAs getting more secure. There are others as well, those are just top of mind for me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 8:54:50 GMT
I also recommend you look up threads started by blacksnow, blacksnow1, and shiningstar, who all started posting as questioning insecures then began working through their process as FAs getting more secure. There are others as well, those are just top of mind for me. yay, i get a mention!!
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Post by alexandra on Aug 27, 2019 9:03:59 GMT
Totally. I think your posts describe your ongoing process and show a lot of clear evolution from where you started!
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Post by 8675309 on Sept 9, 2019 11:23:25 GMT
I think it would be ok to reach out in time to tell them you're sorry and own things. Most people appreciate when someone sincerely apologizes for being a 'jerk'. I had an ex once do that. He wasn't a jerk while together but a total a-hole breaking up with me, he was so mean. Years later he owned he was that jerk and apologized, it was cool. I was long over him but I still appreciated it. Looking back now, knowing attachment and understanding projection more, he projected something in himself by being so mean at break up. I didn't understand it at all at the time because we didnt have this bad relationship. Who knows you could work it out in time because you are now both aware. Just take the time you need first. Some of these videos may help you if you haven't seen them yet. www.youtube.com/channel/UCHQ4lSaKRap5HyrpitrTOhQ/search?query=fearful+avoidant
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