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Post by ocarina on Aug 27, 2019 11:49:55 GMT
Does anyone with any avoidant leaning - fa or da struggle with this? So my ex partner and attempt at a friendship who has lurked around on and off for so long..... I know he stirs me up, keeps me stuck in old patterns, contributes further to my avoidance but I STILL find it hard to say no when he asks to see me.
FFWd to now - he's been away for a bit and I made a last ditch attempt to communicate openly about my need for support, the fact that I am human and have needs etc etc he communicated sporadically and ie every week or so - and I knew he was home as we bumped into each other - then NADA for a while and today brief message asking if I can go for a walk with him.
No blame on him here - I know that I have given mixed messages and accepted things when they don't feel right and been passive. But why am I finding it so difficult to say no - I know it messes with my head because we see each other, find connection, then he disappears. I know this is not good for me but I still find it difficult to say no. As though i am somehow the bad guy or something...... I have no conscious desire to get back with him in a romantic way but both of us feel drawn to keep the tenuous link there.
I wish he would just evaporate (in the kindest possible way) but I also know that this is my stuff at play that's keeping the holding pattern going. We do live close by, he comes to an activity I do every week., so evaporation isn't possible - and I hold him no ill will. I feel a bit pathetic with how this messes with my head after all this time. On paper:
Met 8 years ago,
Friends for 18 months
Romantically involved on and off 6 years - three break ups all initiated by me due to his lack of communication, apparent lack of care
I ended up in al anon to helped me separate from the madness. I learnt alot about my own needs but I also found his disappearance really traumatic. I was left with a massive house move and job change and NADA from him.
Final ending - he didn't contact me for 18 months (except the odd breadcrumb text) after I told him very evenly that I needed more time with him, that the relationship wasn't working for me and asked if he had any ideas re improving things - he didn't even discuss this just disappeared.
18 months later he told me he loved me (for the first time) and surely we could work something out? It was soon obvious that nothing had changed - he was discussing buying a boat and sailing off into the sunset (alone) and I told him I couldn't do a relationship with him. Since then we've been friends but the intermitentness still triggers me - it's still very much all on his terms.
I thought I would be grown up enough to just let things roll - but it seems not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 12:20:29 GMT
Have you actually ever been able to decline his invitation?
I've been in a similar situation before. For me, it was about facing discomfort, being able to tolerate real change and finality. My holding patterns exist because they are familiar. Making permanent changes for my benefit does involve letting go and facing discomfort, and allowing it to be what it is. Wounds heal if given proper air and attention.
My discomfort with changes gas involved some of the following:
disappointment
looking like the bad guy (while apparently others get a pass haha. There is no bad guy, only adults making choices according to their priorities. Mine is personal growth.)
loss of something or someone
challenging the status quo, not knowing what is next
being conflicted, uncertain because of a lack of acceptance not a lack of understanding!
Ultimately, making changes like this takes me longer than I would like, but I get there every time. You only have to say No once to start to practice a new way of being. It is about practicing it until it sticks. At least that's what I've found . Doesn't have to be a big fallout. You've said your piece and represented your needs and this guy is about himself. It's time to do what you know is good for you in the long run and face the feelings.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 27, 2019 12:35:59 GMT
Thank you very much @sherry - so much of this resonates with me.
The bad guy thing is interesting - I agree no blame and no bad guy and I certainly see my part - but this guy is kind of a zen boyfriend - so everything is fine in his behaviour since surely unconditional love and acceptance is the ultimate truth - so if I am not unconditionally loving and accepting I am clearly the one who's faulty if you see what I mean? It's maddening because I genuinely feel in some ways that I should be able and be willing to deal with all the inconsistency and all the rest with and air of graceful acceptance - it feeds into my general concept of myself as an individual, as needing nobody, as being fine with everything - something I am trying to shake.
I think it's that fear of commitment that lurks - the finality and second guessing in terms of making a firm decision. I will practice - if there's one thing worse than finality it's the discomfort of feeling stuck!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 12:51:47 GMT
Thank you very much @sherry - so much of this resonates with me. The bad guy thing is interesting - I agree no blame and no bad guy and I certainly see my part - but this guy is kind of a zen boyfriend - so everything is fine in his behaviour since surely unconditional love and acceptance is the ultimate truth - so if I am not unconditionally loving and accepting I am clearly the one who's faulty if you see what I mean? It's maddening because I genuinely feel in some ways that I should be able and be willing to deal with all the inconsistency and all the rest with and air of graceful acceptance - it feeds into my general concept of myself as an individual, as needing nobody, as being fine with everything - something I am trying to shake. I think it's that fear of commitment that lurks - the finality and second guessing in terms of making a firm decision. I will practice - if there's one thing worse than finality it's the discomfort of feeling stuck! Why come up with a bunch of esoteric "shoulda"? That makes no sense to me 'If you really want to think zen; then consider that your separateness is an illusion. You're cherry picking ideas, and agree that he's more to do with pattern. Unconditional love doesn't mean staying in relationships that promote negativity. There is discretion and personal responsibility to the self to consider. Clinging is what keeps us stuck. Zen doesn't. But I get where you are coming from. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 27, 2019 12:57:21 GMT
His idea @sherry not mine - so it's a justification from him of his behaviour which makes it ok (And makes me feel not ok!)
I didn't reply to your last question - do I ever say no to him. I do say no but only on practical terms ie I am too busy, have a plan already, am working. The truth is really no because being around him messes with my head and the inconsistency of it all - the words that are not backed up by actions and all that jazz sometimes leaves me doubting my sanity.
I don't doubt my sanity in any other areas of life so surmise that the dynamic isn't helping me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 13:13:35 GMT
His idea @sherry not mine - so it's a justification from him of his behaviour which makes it ok (And makes me feel not ok!) I didn't reply to your last question - do I ever say no to him. I do say no but only on practical terms ie I am too busy, have a plan already, am working. The truth is really no because being around him messes with my head and the inconsistency of it all - the words that are not backed up by actions and all that jazz sometimes leaves me doubting my sanity. I don't doubt my sanity in any other areas of life so surmise that the dynamic isn't helping me. wow, he's really manipulative! Don't fall for that crap. Say no to him and yes to you. Enough is enough right? |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 27, 2019 17:02:18 GMT
ocarina, this is something I've been thinking about lately too, about friendship specifically. What I keep coming back to is, how many chances do I have to give someone to prove that nothing is going to change and they'll keep acting as they always have been (as they've not done any self-work)? How does that serve me, after I've observed the same disappointment and hit the same walls the first few times? It's coming from a different place with AP, endless hope and loss of connection triggering fear of abandonment, but framing it more in non-judgemental terms of... what am I doing, as this is pointless to repeat (so just take action to stop repeating it)? seems to be helping.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 20:40:19 GMT
ocarina, do you have any truly secure relationships, intimate ones, that give you a sense of feeling fully understood and supported? My attachment therapist and I touched that today. I do have that in my life, the strongest being my relationship with the earth. Very strong and stable feeling of belonging, and a richness of experience that is anything but avoidant. In recent years human relationships have become more secure- from friends/peer realm and now moving into the intimate partner realm. The feeling of absolute security and being fully supported in my relationship to nature is a resource that I can draw on and recognize the same feelings in my body, as I encounter them with the people closest to me. In contrast, the feelings that arise in my body in unsafe environments and with unsafe people are very different. It's just interesting to note. It's helping me see what is patterned by trauma and what is truly authentically good. Maybe these ideas can help you explore your current situation. I know what love feels like and what has been felt cannot be unfelt, in that regard. Nor can it be duplicated. Love feels a certain way. That means love from spiritual sources, platonic sources, or intimate partner sources. There is a common ease and expansiveness. It changes my entire coordinate system. Good feels good and bad feels bad. Where the signals do get crossed, it's very easy to use intelligence and common sense. Integrating all this together is powerfully transformative and encouraging to me. It opens a whole new landscape for me. I have less and less tolerance for what feels truly bad and that's intelligence working in me, not fear. We are working on catching my nervous system up to the secure intelligence where it's getting in the way and acting up in patterned responses. But the body is very wise. It's very cool to be bringing the information from my body online to work with it in a conscious way .
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