cat
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Post by cat on Sept 5, 2019 9:14:17 GMT
Hi everyone! I'm new here, English is my second language so sorry for any mistake I could make.
Is there anyone here who has been in one or multiple relationships with NPDs? I stayed in a relationship with a NPD for 3,5 years and I left I guess cause I couldn't tolerate all the ups and downs, which came along with both my attachment disorder and his personality disorder.
He was for sure a DA. Before starting therapy, I was almost ONLY attracted to NPDs or ASPDs. Is it something common or is it just me? Now it's been over a year I haven't been in a relationship and I'm kinda dating a guy who is for sure DA. Should I give up right now? I can't think this thing could ever work. BTW, I guess it's the first non-abusive relationship I've ever been and it sounds pretty good even though I feel he's kinda distant and cold. Is it also possible that the avoidant part outweighs the fearful one when facing a hard break up? Cause honestly I feel so much avoidant after having faced the long-term relationship breakup. It was plain hell, I thought about committing suicide for about 7 months 😂
Nice to meet you all and to share these feelings with you.
Have a nice day
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 5, 2019 11:10:01 GMT
Hi everyone! I'm new here, English is my second language so sorry for any mistake I could make. Is there anyone here who has been in one or multiple relationships with NPDs? I stayed in a relationship with a NPD for 3,5 years and I left I guess cause I couldn't tolerate all the ups and downs, which came along with both my attachment disorder and his personality disorder. He was for sure a DA. Before starting therapy, I was almost ONLY attracted to NPDs or ASPDs. Is it something common or is it just me? Now it's been over a year I haven't been in a relationship and I'm kinda dating a guy who is for sure DA. Should I give up right now? I can't think this thing could ever work. BTW, I guess it's the first non-abusive relationship I've ever been and it sounds pretty good even though I feel he's kinda distant and cold. Is it also possible that the avoidant part outweighs the fearful one when facing a hard break up? Cause honestly I feel so much avoidant after having faced the long-term relationship breakup. It was plain hell, I thought about committing suicide for about 7 months 😂 Nice to meet you all and to share these feelings with you. Have a nice day Hi and welcome.....I think it is very important to distinguish NPD from DA. NPD is a personality disorder while DA has to do with attachment. While someone with NPD can appear “avoidant”...the reality is that there are unique differences in their brain. Most individuals with NPD have no desire to address their issues because they don’t see anything wrong with how they operate in the world. I have dated 2 narcissists and honestly....there was a time that I seemed to only be attracted to them and I had to work very hard on myself to recognize what it was about them that attracted me and then change that attraction. They are very charming, come across very strong in the beginning...love bombing...but then over time....they need fresh sources of narcissistic supply and as such....start to demean, belittle etc. i am glad you are out of that relationship and would highly recommend some therapy to address the trauma you experienced. There is a great website called “it’s all about him” that was started by a woman who survived dating and then marrying a man with NPD. On that website, specifically in their forums...I was able to learn a tremendous amount as well as take a 6 week intense therapy session (group setting, over the phone with homework every week). It was the best money I spent and I feel that after that...I was able to recognize NPD men much easier. The work is going to be with you...getting clear on your own attachment...getting clear on what are the stories you associate with these men and then changing them. I wish you well on your journey. |
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cat
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Post by cat on Sept 5, 2019 12:40:35 GMT
Hey thanks for your quick answer. I can totally relate to you when it comes to the inevitable attraction to NPDs I used to have before starting therapy. Now I am not attracted, I am deeply SCARED. I guess the reason it lasted so long was because I gave him enough space to stay away from me every now and then and he did the same. One day, right before our vacation, he picked up a fight. He wanted us to go on another vacation I could not afford at all. He threatened to block me, insulted me for being a liar, a child and stuff. So I detached myself a lot and I was sure he would have come back after a couple of days. He didn't. I stayed strong enough not to contact him cause I knew I was belittled, criticized, he had been withdrawing sex from me for about a whole year and used it like a weapon. I was never enough, not as smart as his sisters were, not as sexy as other girls. We never ever made love and the more time it passed, the worse it got. It was deeply mechanical, no foreplay involved, nothing. I was his sexual object, but just when he wanted. I started therapy to elaborate all this and my FA came out. My therapist never told me 'he had NPDs' but I have read so much about it and I feel like the description of NPD of the DSM-5 really fits him very well. It's not that my therapist doesn't think he is one, she says it's not useful to put a target on someone, it's way better to heal my wounds without giving a target.
Now said this, I am 'dating' this guy but I feel extremely detached, sometimes I even hate him, sometimes I feel like he's gonna love me forever and ever. It's been about 3 months but deep inside me I feel he's a narc. When I said that my ex was a narc with DA, I meant that yeah NPDs is A PD, but someone with NPDs has a dismissive avoidant attachment anyway. Yesterday I exploded because he was telling me that I was not like the other girls and that if I would say goodbye, it would hurt him like he hasn't been hurt in years. We are both 22. By exploding I mean that I told him I think he's a narcisist and he is trying to manipulate me, that I saw signs. He asked me ' what's narcissism?' I sent him some websites to have a look at and his answer was:'well I don't know, maybe you are right or maybe you are wrong. I don' t know, I may act like this but not so much, this is just exaggerate'. Would a narc act like this? I think a narc would just say:'you are crazy, what are you talking about? You have issues, not me' (Déjà vu). A big red flag is that he gets into relationships, stays there for 6-7 months, then disappears in the middle of nowhere. After 15 hours he literally does not give a shit about the other person. He broke up with his last girlfriend by saying 'If I have to choose between work and you, I choose work'. He says bye to another girl he dated for like two weeks by saying 'he is just not into a relationship' and that's it. Bye. She was trying to convince him to talk about it and he said no, I don't think it's worth it, otherwise I would have talked about it with you in person'. He says 'I feel I can' t love and I wanna love but maybe it's just that I haven't met someone who is worth it. He had a relationship with a girl, the first one, she dumped him. He realky suffered for her and now he feels like this. I know all this because we used to be friends so he told me this genuinely. I am really scared he's a narcisist and I wanna RUN away. If anyone is able to read through this, please I would really be grateful to you. I like the guy and we really get along very well but my mental health comes first.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 5, 2019 14:05:25 GMT
Hey thanks for your quick answer. I can totally relate to you when it comes to the inevitable attraction to NPDs I used to have before starting therapy. Now I am not attracted, I am deeply SCARED. I guess the reason it lasted so long was because I gave him enough space to stay away from me every now and then and he did the same. One day, right before our vacation, he picked up a fight. He wanted us to go on another vacation I could not afford at all. He threatened to block me, insulted me for being a liar, a child and stuff. So I detached myself a lot and I was sure he would have come back after a couple of days. He didn't. I stayed strong enough not to contact him cause I knew I was belittled, criticized, he had been withdrawing sex from me for about a whole year and used it like a weapon. I was never enough, not as smart as his sisters were, not as sexy as other girls. We never ever made love and the more time it passed, the worse it got. It was deeply mechanical, no foreplay involved, nothing. I was his sexual object, but just when he wanted. I started therapy to elaborate all this and my FA came out. My therapist never told me 'he had NPDs' but I have read so much about it and I feel like the description of NPD of the DSM-5 really fits him very well. It's not that my therapist doesn't think he is one, she says it's not useful to put a target on someone, it's way better to heal my wounds without giving a target. Now said this, I am 'dating' this guy but I feel extremely detached, sometimes I even hate him, sometimes I feel like he's gonna love me forever and ever. It's been about 3 months but deep inside me I feel he's a narc. When I said that my ex was a narc with DA, I meant that yeah NPDs is A PD, but someone with NPDs has a dismissive avoidant attachment anyway. Yesterday I exploded because he was telling me that I was not like the other girls and that if I would say goodbye, it would hurt him like he hasn't been hurt in years. We are both 22. By exploding I mean that I told him I think he's a narcisist and he is trying to manipulate me, that I saw signs. He asked me ' what's narcissism?' I sent him some websites to have a look at and his answer was:'well I don't know, maybe you are right or maybe you are wrong. I don' t know, I may act like this but not so much, this is just exaggerate'. Would a narc act like this? I think a narc would just say:'you are crazy, what are you talking about? You have issues, not me' (Déjà vu). A big red flag is that he gets into relationships, stays there for 6-7 months, then disappears in the middle of nowhere. After 15 hours he literally does not give a shit about the other person. He broke up with his last girlfriend by saying 'If I have to choose between work and you, I choose work'. He says bye to another girl he dated for like two weeks by saying 'he is just not into a relationship' and that's it. Bye. She was trying to convince him to talk about it and he said no, I don't think it's worth it, otherwise I would have talked about it with you in person'. He says 'I feel I can' t love and I wanna love but maybe it's just that I haven't met someone who is worth it. He had a relationship with a girl, the first one, she dumped him. He realky suffered for her and now he feels like this. I know all this because we used to be friends so he told me this genuinely. I am really scared he's a narcisist and I wanna RUN away. If anyone is able to read through this, please I would really be grateful to you. I like the guy and we really get along very well but my mental health comes first. I really think you need to separate NPD from avoidant attachment...if you get hung up on that...you will miss the whole point. At this stage....the focus really needs to be to stop assessing and analyzing him and really start to look at your own attachment behaviors....because, even though he was cruel to you....doing more research on him changes nothing. Looking at what you were attracted to and why you stayed in a relationship will change your dynamic. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 15:30:58 GMT
OP, do some more research. Vulnerable narcissists are anxiously attached. There is a thread in the DA support forum about this.
BPD is more commonly associated with FA - studies show.
Just know what you're dealing with- but don't generalize this way it's just not beneficial to true understanding.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 5, 2019 15:38:18 GMT
cat, let's stop focusing on the partners for a minute and focus on you. You're not getting your needs met, you're sometimes detached, sometimes you hate these partners. Why are you ignoring your instincts? Whether it's because you're with dangerous partners or because you're not yet healed enough in attachment to be ready for a healthy relationship, your body and thoughts seem to be telling you to stay away from this guy for a reason.
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Post by serenity on Sept 6, 2019 5:32:00 GMT
Theres a possibility that Narcissistic or avoidant people bring out this attachment style in you...the fear, the dissociation and anxiety. And so it should, its a warning sign that you are unsafe. So working to change your legitimate emotional response to an unsafe person may not help that much. If anything it could turn you into a more numb abuse victim.
One of my earliest therapists had a slightly different approach to yours.. he believed that because I'd been raised by a narcissistic mother, it was a natural move for me to stay in relationships with people similar to her .. I'd been trained from birth afterall to cater to her disorder and call it `love'. His approach was to help me to identify safe people for me to form relationships with, and move out of the familiar comfort zone of traumatic relationships (for me).
That worked for me. I found that I took to loving secure relationships very well. And as my life progressed, I realised that you just can't know a person in few months, narcs are especially great at coming across as loving and secure at first, then flicking a switch and discarding/devaluing you. And so are some other types of avoidants.
I guess I'm suggesting to consider actively changing your `type' ... go a bit slower with guys... and see what happens.
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cat
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Post by cat on Sept 6, 2019 7:36:03 GMT
Thanks everyone for your reply. Sure, I need to work on my attachment and analysing my ex is useless. But trying to figure out the person I'm dating right now seems to me fundamental if I want to let down my guards and give him a chance. Daily update: I told him yesterday that I wanna slow things down and that I just want to step back and think about it. I do agree with serenity when he/she says that my FA is triggered as a response to what is familiar to me. Familiar in terms of family but also in terms of things I have already experienced in previous relationships. I had a panick attack during the night the day after a date with him. And as you say: it's my body telling me to stay away from this guy.
Yesterday night I was reading something about vulnerable narcissism, enmeshment and dysfunctional family. I think it's really hard to accept that what we called love, was narcisistic abuse. I was raised by my mother, as my dad died when I was only 2. My mom says that I saw him dying, I was in the same room when he passed out and she started to scream. So, because of the fact that my mum was a widow and she had to take care of both my sister and I (at that time without a job), she always portraited herself as the victim who was abandoned by her husband and left alone with two children. During my childhood, I got accostumed to her depression, sometimes I even hugged her while screaming 'I miss your dad. She cried for days. But the real struggle was when I left home to go to college. At that time, I choose to stay in the city I still am, because of'love' (the guy with NPD). I say that it was a real struggle because she got depressed like her, she blamed me for having left her alone. Because I was such a bad girl to want my indipendence. Because I was such a bad girl for having moved 2 hours away for college. When I came home from college every now and then, she ignored me or screamed at me that 'I came home when I wanted but I was not there for her when she needed me'.
Then she got into therapy for about 8 months and things definitely changed. She is now neglective in many ways l, sometimes says things she shouldn't say but in general I must say that she is a better parent now, maybe also because I live away from her.
When I broke up with my ex I was devastated and she was by my side, she listened to me, she hugged me, she told me to take my time to heal, she sent me to a therapist and she is financially supporting me (before the break up I used to get scholarships so I was financially independent). I don't know if this can be considered narcisism and I cannot blame her for her behavior. I see her as someone who was depressed after her husband died and reacted by relying on her children, which is completely dysfunctional but I never thought, not for once, that she wanted to hurt me.
My last question is: is FA typically created through this kind of family environment? Can you relate to this?
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Post by stu on Sept 6, 2019 14:53:39 GMT
Thanks everyone for your reply. Sure, I need to work on my attachment and analysing my ex is useless. But trying to figure out the person I'm dating right now seems to me fundamental if I want to let down my guards and give him a chance. Daily update: I told him yesterday that I wanna slow things down and that I just want to step back and think about it. I do agree with serenity when he/she says that my FA is triggered as a response to what is familiar to me. Familiar in terms of family but also in terms of things I have already experienced in previous relationships. I had a panick attack during the night the day after a date with him. And as you say: it's my body telling me to stay away from this guy. Yesterday night I was reading something about vulnerable narcissism, enmeshment and dysfunctional family. I think it's really hard to accept that what we called love, was narcisistic abuse. I was raised by my mother, as my dad died when I was only 2. My mom says that I saw him dying, I was in the same room when he passed out and she started to scream. So, because of the fact that my mum was a widow and she had to take care of both my sister and I (at that time without a job), she always portraited herself as the victim who was abandoned by her husband and left alone with two children. During my childhood, I got accostumed to her depression, sometimes I even hugged her while screaming 'I miss your dad. She cried for days. But the real struggle was when I left home to go to college. At that time, I choose to stay in the city I still am, because of'love' (the guy with NPD). I say that it was a real struggle because she got depressed like her, she blamed me for having left her alone. Because I was such a bad girl to want my indipendence. Because I was such a bad girl for having moved 2 hours away for college. When I came home from college every now and then, she ignored me or screamed at me that 'I came home when I wanted but I was not there for her when she needed me'. Then she got into therapy for about 8 months and things definitely changed. She is now neglective in many ways l, sometimes says things she shouldn't say but in general I must say that she is a better parent now, maybe also because I live away from her. When I broke up with my ex I was devastated and she was by my side, she listened to me, she hugged me, she told me to take my time to heal, she sent me to a therapist and she is financially supporting me (before the break up I used to get scholarships so I was financially independent). I don't know if this can be considered narcisism and I cannot blame her for her behavior. I see her as someone who was depressed after her husband died and reacted by relying on her children, which is completely dysfunctional but I never thought, not for once, that she wanted to hurt me. My last question is: is FA typically created through this kind of family environment? Can you relate to this? FA can definitely be atrributed to those things. Your mom made you responsible for her emotions and tried to blame you for having your own autonomy, though her behavior sounds more like the BPD spectrum then narcisssim. Or just a general spectrum of emotional stunting for whatever reason. I think a lot of people can relate to it. Sadly a lot of people these days grew up in environments that are on some level of dysfunction.i had an inconsistent upbringing as well, but in different ways. Sounds like you are doing well yourself though. Hope things continue to improve! |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 6, 2019 15:52:43 GMT
My last question is: is FA typically created through this kind of family environment? Can you relate to this? Yes. There is intense enmeshment, as well as some chaos and trauma in your description. Those are all things that can lead to FA, which is your childhood defense mechanism system to survive that situation. |
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cat
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Post by cat on Sept 6, 2019 16:56:37 GMT
Hey Stu, thanks for your reply. Feel free to share your story, if you like. Yeah, things are actually getting better. I only feel my FA is there when it comes to romantic relationships. I have healthy friendships and in general I tend to make friends very easily. I would say that my FA symptoms are simply triggered by toxic relationships. Sometimes I even think I have some BPDs traits myself since I became promiscuous after that break-up. I've never had unprotected sex though. I just used to engage in pretty risky activities and situations with strangers. Don't know if this is because of BPD traits or because of FA. I also suffered from anorexia and bulimia, but for few months. They were mostly episodes. I used to starve myself when I was 14-15, after the break up I cooked even during the night and ate till I was so full I could not breath. I guess I just had to elaborate traumas from my childhood. Perhaps adding also the end of the relationship was just too much.
Hope you guys have found a way to manage this. In general, even though I grow up in this dysfunctional family, I think I am happy for what I am now. I enjoy life, even though I may struggle with men 😂 I cultivate interests, learn new things. I also feel like I want to travel all around the world. Oh, I have also lived in 3 different places and I'm only 22. I moved with my family when I was 14 for work and then at 18 for college. Can moving during adolescence contribute to FA? I used to have friends I really loved at my birthplace and it was traumatic to leave them. But honestly that place was just not worth it, I would never move back there.
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cat
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Post by cat on Sept 6, 2019 16:59:08 GMT
When I say 'for work', I mean my mom worked. I did not work at 14 😂
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Post by stu on Sept 6, 2019 19:22:35 GMT
Hey Stu, thanks for your reply. Feel free to share your story, if you like. Yeah, things are actually getting better. I only feel my FA is there when it comes to romantic relationships. I have healthy friendships and in general I tend to make friends very easily. I would say that my FA symptoms are simply triggered by toxic relationships. Sometimes I even think I have some BPDs traits myself since I became promiscuous after that break-up. I've never had unprotected sex though. I just used to engage in pretty risky activities and situations with strangers. Don't know if this is because of BPD traits or because of FA. I also suffered from anorexia and bulimia, but for few months. They were mostly episodes. I used to starve myself when I was 14-15, after the break up I cooked even during the night and ate till I was so full I could not breath. I guess I just had to elaborate traumas from my childhood. Perhaps adding also the end of the relationship was just too much. Hope you guys have found a way to manage this. In general, even though I grow up in this dysfunctional family, I think I am happy for what I am now. I enjoy life, even though I may struggle with men 😂 I cultivate interests, learn new things. I also feel like I want to travel all around the world. Oh, I have also lived in 3 different places and I'm only 22. I moved with my family when I was 14 for work and then at 18 for college. Can moving during adolescence contribute to FA? I used to have friends I really loved at my birthplace and it was traumatic to leave them. But honestly that place was just not worth it, I would never move back there. Most people can demonstrate traits of personality disorders at certain points of life, but when its a full blown personality disorder it's on the extreme end of those behaviors, with a certain amount of behaviors added together. I'm not implying your mom was possibly BPD either by the way, just that those behaviors would fall more into the BPD then narc side of a spectrum. As far as the FA label I wouldn't stress on it too much, or try to label yourself about anything. It's just a set of defense mechanisms and learned coping skills that can be changed to better tools and coping skills through re conditioning yourself and having self awareness. Some people are anxious, some are avoidant both stem from the same root cause of fear. And moving towards secure is all that is important to have better regulation of ourselves and relationships with those around us. You sound like you have a lot of positive things going on for yourself right now and that's awesome, you are also tackling some of your older challenges at a very young age which is even better. Some people stay in a cycle for their entire lives and never change. I think you're in the right place and going to do very well with yourself. My childhood story wasn't anything too intense just an emotionally absent father, mom who was very erratic when stressed and had no ability to handle stress. Really bad divorce, and constant moving when young. My parents never felt like consistent role models of behavior of a healthy relationship but I'm an adult now so none of that has to define who and what I am anymore. It just is what it is. It left me with some AP traits for some years, but in the last few years especially this last one I feeli am much more secure, and rarely have any AP or avoidant moments. Even secures can have anxious and avoidant moments though. Anxiety and avoidance are traits everyone experiences at different times after all. I myself came to this forum after the confusion I had while dating an FA, and never understood the perspective of someone with these challenges until now. It's helped me to better understand and connect with someone that struggled with it, and I was able to learn more about myself in the process as well. Unfortunately that person is not doing enough self work themselves and things recently didn't work out with that situation. Which is abshame after how much time was invested and how much I learned and got so close to them. They de activated very hard over a couple weeks ago, and now we don't have contact. And im not sure if I can continue things anymore. But I guess that's life sometimes 😅 |
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