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Post by kranichangel on Sept 9, 2019 8:26:26 GMT
Just an observation based on the (limited) information I gather from your post and the way you phrased it:
it seems you are more concerned with how your actions could be perceived by your partner, than with what feels authentic, secure and good for YOU in this situation. Which I would gently bring focus back to YOU, and your fears and triggers and wounds that this period of silence brings up in YOU, and how you can most authentically dealt with those and soothe yourself.
I feel acting from a place that is more secure than anxious means, feeling and being true to yourself, validating yourself and then acting from that place. Then, the action does not become about the other person, about trying not to upset or trigger or "scare away" the other person, but it becomes more about expressing yourself authentically. I am familiar with these patterns of wanting to do the "right" thing and ruminating about whether my actions will be perceived as a threat by the other person, whether it will push them further away or create connection - and amidst all that rumination, it becomes really hard to actually feel MYSELF and allow space and awareness for my own feelings, fears, triggers and needs. It is this hope, that if I act in the "right" way, my fears will be soothed by this other person - and at the same time, the fear that if the other person does not act the way I need them to, in order to soothe my fears, I will be left alone and abandoned. It is this need for reassurance by the other person and in my mind I think, if I just say the right thing or act in the "right" way, the other person will eventually give me that reassurance I so crave.
What is truly needed though in my feeling, is a way to soothe myself DESPITE of and independently from what the other person says and does, or does not say and doesn't do. This is the real challenge, to truly look at myself and see all my fears, triggers and wounds, and work on ways to soothe myself.
This is perhaps not the practical advice you were looking for, and I am sure others may offer more insight. I just noticed that when we are anxious, we tend to over-think and over-focus on the other person and ways we could possibly reestablish a connection, instead of drawing focus inward and looking gently at what wounds are being triggered inside of us at this time.
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Post by 8675309 on Sept 9, 2019 10:01:55 GMT
Just straight ask. Its a normal adult question to ask when someone does not respond to you/ditched out on you. Asking is not an AP thing, its a being an adult thing. If a family member or a friend did this, would you ask, yes? Their attachment is not an excuse, not asking is excusing it like its ok.
I have asked, he doesnt answer me, no answer is his answer. I just go on with my life and never contact him again.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 9, 2019 12:43:51 GMT
Just curious for FAs and/or partners of FAs, is there a better way to phrase "did I upset you?" during a time of silence that might have been prompted by a misunderstanding? Or would you just completely avoid that question all together? I'm afraid I did something that was perceived wrong, but I'm not sure how to best approach. I think when I was more secure I would've just been like "Did I do something to upset you?" but I'm leaning more AP these days and also just curious on phrasing. I'm also considering just saying hi or just giving space... so really just trying to gauge what would be best phrasing whenever/if I address it. I used to ask...”are we ok?” whenever I feared I had made a mistake or upset B. Because underneath it at...that is what you are trying to confirm. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 13:17:12 GMT
Caroline - why don't you just focus on yourself. Allow him to contact you. Why chase him? He will get in contact if and when he chooses too.
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Post by stu on Sept 9, 2019 14:38:36 GMT
Just curious for FAs and/or partners of FAs, is there a better way to phrase "did I upset you?" during a time of silence that might have been prompted by a misunderstanding? Or would you just completely avoid that question all together? I'm afraid I did something that was perceived wrong, but I'm not sure how to best approach. I think when I was more secure I would've just been like "Did I do something to upset you?" but I'm leaning more AP these days and also just curious on phrasing. I'm also considering just saying hi or just giving space... so really just trying to gauge what would be best phrasing whenever/if I address it. You are always going to have times where you say something that can be misinterpreted or accidently taken personally from other people. But to have a reciprocal relationship of any kind there is a coming together again and understanding beneath the surface. I would just wait and see if they reach out again, and if so then you can talk then. If not, then just moving on with life. If they are in a spot where they are ready for something or want connection , or whatever else it may be. They will let you know. But we should also take care of ourselves as much as possible too. Because at the end of the day the only thing we have any sense of control over is ourselves anyways. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 14:43:03 GMT
Caroline, you do not want to put yourself in the position of having to micromanage this relationship. You do not want to set up a dynamic where you are micromanaging yourself. I am guessing that he's gone silent and you're wondering if it was something you said. There has to be a line, your own boundary, for your communication that when you stay within it, you are comfortable and secure. What I mean is, take a look at what you've said and ask yourself if you stand behind it and can let it be what it is without tailoring it. I think a lot of people get stuck thinking they have to tailor themselves and their communications in order to be acceptable to someone else and avoid rejection.
For example, if you have simply expressed yourself authentically, say, letting him know how much you care.... and he went silent, well....... then he's sending you a message and you should listen to it. The message is, I cannot and will not reciprocate that. A healthy person would be able to acknowledge and appreciate that, and communicate some kind of reciprocity and appreciation.
That may not be the particular scenario here, I just grabbed it out of the air because AP seem to be hyper aware of scaring someone off with intimacy or of making themselves vulnerable by expressing more feelings than the other has.
Look at your interactions and ask yourself reasonably if you have done something upsetting. We can't all know for sure but unless you've been a jerk (doubt it) then you're probably waking on eggshells with him. I'd turn the focus back to you and analyze whether or not you are falling into the habits of your own insecure attachment, to try to accommodate an unavailable person who isn't consistent in their participation with you. By the way, inconsistency is a huge red flag for dysfunction.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 9, 2019 15:08:04 GMT
Caroline, you do not want to put yourself in the position of having to micromanage this relationship. You do not want to set up a dynamic where you are micromanaging yourself. I am guessing that he's gone silent and you're wondering if it was something you said. There has to be a line, your own boundary, for your communication that when you stay within it, you are comfortable and secure. What I mean is, take a look at what you've said and ask yourself if you stand behind it and can let it be what it is without tailoring it. I think a lot of people get stuck thinking they have to tailor themselves and their communications in order to be acceptable to someone else and avoid rejection. For example, if you have simply expressed yourself authentically, say, letting him know how much you care.... and he went silent, well....... then he's sending you a message and you should listen to it. The message is, I cannot and will not reciprocate that. A healthy person would be able to acknowledge and appreciate that, and communicate some kind of reciprocity and appreciation. That may not be the particular scenario here, I just grabbed it out of the air because AP seem to be hyper aware of scaring someone off with intimacy or of making themselves vulnerable by expressing more feelings than the other has. Look at your interactions and ask yourself reasonably if you have done something upsetting. We can't all know for sure but unless you've been a jerk (doubt it) then you're probably waking on eggshells with him. I'd turn the focus back to you and analyze whether or not you are falling into the habits of your own insecure attachment, to try to accommodate an unavailable person who isn't consistent in their participation with you. By the way, inconsistency is a huge red flag for dysfunction. Very good point Sherry....I think one of the growth opportunities for those of us with AP attachment is to take back our autonomy and be ok with ourselves. Case in point Caroline....when B was over the last time, I did have a very emotional reaction...it was authentic...but I knew I was tired and was not in a good space to convey my thoughts in a mature manner. I sent B an apology, owning how I acted and explained why that was the case. I did not hear back from him...and it did make me concerned that something as misinterpreted...but I can’t be responsible for how he read my email or anything he interpreted from it. I did my part and I have to let it go...even though, it made my anxiety go up. |
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Post by stu on Sept 9, 2019 16:29:54 GMT
Very good point Sherry....I think one of the growth opportunities for those of us with AP attachment is to take back our autonomy and be ok with ourselves. Case in point Caroline....when B was over the last time, I did have a very emotional reaction...it was authentic...but I knew I was tired and was not in a good space to convey my thoughts in a mature manner. I sent B an apology, owning how I acted and explained why that was the case. I did not hear back from him...and it did make me concerned that something as misinterpreted...but I can’t be responsible for how he read my email or anything he interpreted from it. I did my part and I have to let it go...even though, it made my anxiety go up. You’re right, one other time - over this same issue - I had an emotional reaction, and wasn’t conveying my thoughts well, I sent an apology and explained how I felt, and he responded. He was short in his immediate response just acknowledging he got it but when we spoke in person a couple days later, he knew it was a safe / understood / ok place. All of this I was being authentic to myself. This time, it wasn’t authentic... it was me questioning what I know... and putting doubt into things where I shouldn’t. I think I would feel better if I did my part, even if he doesn’t respond. I feel inauthentic because I’m trying to not trigger him more into deactivation. I understand you are worried about what you mentioned to them before, but from what I read and what is going on now. This is 100 percent nothing to do with you, in my opinion. And there will always be times where we don't say the best answer or response , or when we say something we don't mean. And all we can do is move on from it and let it be, how the other person takes it we have no control. But from what I know I don't think it has anything to do with you. I don't think you said anything to break their trust or trigger them. This person has a lot of issues they need to work out but I don't think you are making anything worse for them. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 16:48:37 GMT
It's a big mistake to assume that every time you're being ignored by an avoidant , they are deactivating. Sometimes they are straight up ignoring you because they aren't invested. Disclosing things doesn't mean real intimacy is being built, that goes both ways and isn't one sided with one person dancing around trying to keep things together. Sometimes disclosing personal issues is a round about way of saying "Don't you get it, I can't do this. I'm dealing with all this other stuff. Please take the hint."
Sometimes the silent treatment is passive aggressive putting you in your place. Sometimes it's disinterest. Sometimes it's apathy. Sometimes it's a way of avoiding the expectations that they know exist. It's not all about being triggered . But it's always, always about being incapable of a mutual, sustainable, healthy relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 16:53:57 GMT
What I mean is, take a look at what you've said and ask yourself if you stand behind it and can let it be what it is without tailoring it. I think this is what I'm struggling with — I don't stand behind it. It wasn't right. I wasn't speaking authentically on this topic. He does have a ton of things going on and issues he needs to work out — and this might just be him pulling away, but I feel like I can't walk away without being at peace with myself. I know it'll be a long hard road of regret if I don't. All you have to do, and you have the right to do this- Is simply acknowledge where you think you misspoke and acted out of line and apologize. That's it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 17:29:45 GMT
Caroline, just be your adult self. Child self is in the drivers seat here. Represent yourself as a secure adult with another adult. Whatever he experiences is within him and subject to his own scrutiny, you don't need to anticipate it. You could be way off base. All you need to do is take care of where you acted outside of your values. Avoiding that is your own shortcoming and the path to secure is to stop juggling every one else and act with your own integrity, It's difficult but also gets easier with practice.
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Post by stu on Sept 9, 2019 18:51:43 GMT
It's a big mistake to assume that every time you're being ignored by an avoidant , they are deactivating. Sometimes they are straight up ignoring you because they aren't invested. Disclosing things doesn't mean real intimacy is being built, that goes both ways and isn't one sided with one person dancing around trying to keep things together. Sometimes disclosing personal issues is a round about way of saying "Don't you get it, I can't do this. I'm dealing with all this other stuff. Please take the hint." Sometimes the silent treatment is passive aggressive putting you in your place. Sometimes it's disinterest. Sometimes it's apathy. Sometimes it's a way of avoiding the expectations that they know exist. It's not all about being triggered . But it's always, always about being incapable of a mutual, sustainable, healthy relationship. Very, very, true. Not worth stressing over although it definitely is shitty and is an emotional rollercoaster when you start building a strong attachment and getting close to someone and they rip the cord out of nowhere. Especially in cycles. It's uncomfortable to be very invested when the other person is so ambiviliant or runs away all the time. Sustaining a relationship with an avoidant who actively runs away and randomly ghosts will never work in my opinion. Not until they start doing some serious work on themselves and stop following their old coping skills and need for constant self preservation , rather then emotional availability. So if we are involved with someone in that cycle who isn't quite out, the best thing we can do is create strong boundaries for ourselves, manage our expectations, and not get too attached to someone who cannot reciprocate and is unavailable to give back in the same way. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 20:59:43 GMT
Insecure quagmires never end well no matter what you do, because it's two people not playing the same game let alone following the same rules.
If you have to ask how to ask "Did I upset you?" the. it's just doomed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 22:19:25 GMT
I know logically everyone's right, but I can't help but feeling so sad, angry — like furious, frustrated, disappointed, mad at myself, etc. It's so overwhelming. I just want to break down and cry. It's so hard cause I've been so supportive, I've really made an effort not to bring up us and just to act as a friend, and I know I messed up, but it feels like he just threw me out like trash. In April, we even talked/joked about how we were too far in to ever ghost each other. I think those emotions are understandable, given the investment and subsequent expectations. From my recent experience with crying I'd say go ahead and let yourself feel all that and have a good cry. When you're able to get some relief from the intensity of the emotions, maybe you can develop a new perspective about whether you'd like to keep going at this. Do remember that he denied a relationship- we know that and you've done your best to accept it, but there were influences telling you to assume that he feels the way you would like him to and would be upset to lose you. This is not how someone who aligns with that fantasy would behave. This is a very painful reality, when fantasy meets reality in a way that you cannot deny. Chances are you will have the opportunity to strap into this roller coaster again. And you are allowed to, it's none of our business to tell you what to do really, there are just a lot of suggestions here for how to take care of yourself. I'm sorry you're hurting, disappointment is a very heavy thing to bear. |
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Post by iz42 on Sept 9, 2019 22:22:56 GMT
caro It's understandable that you would be overwhelmed and sad. I've asked "are you mad at me?" more times than I can count (I'm embarrassed to admit) and it was usually the result of the push-pull dynamic where I assumed he was angry because he was pulling away, and that wasn't always the case. My AP brain constantly made assumptions about his reactions, and they often weren't accurate. Even if he is stonewalling because you did something to upset him, he could just tell you what's wrong. It shouldn't always be your job to tiptoe around and smooth things over.
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