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Post by happyidiot on Sept 12, 2019 3:01:26 GMT
I need to get all this out and I don't know who else to tell. The TLDR version: I feel like I am walling up a part of myself because I would like sex far more often then my boyfriend would, and every day that goes by that he shows no interest in sex feels like a sharp rejection and scares me for our future. If a week or more goes by, I feel miserable and start seriously wondering if this relationship is even right for me. Any advice? The long version:
I am FA, often tending more towards the anxious side, but I think I usually have it fairly under control in relative terms, as I don't usually just reactively act on my attachment-wounding related urges and I have a lot of self-insight. I don't know what my boyfriend's attachment type is. I am not sure if that's a good or bad thing. I chose him in part because he seemed secure, and he is more secure than most people I've dated previously, but it's become evident he's not totally secure and at minimum he has a bit of an AP side. Maybe we all have some of every attachment type in us though? We have a mismatch in how often we want sex, with me interested in having it much more often than he seems to be. Some of you may have read my previous thread on this topic: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1997/jealous-when-partnerMy ideal sexual frequency would be 1-2 times a day, and I could probably feel content with 4 times a week (as long as it wasn't only me initiating it, and I didn't feel pushed away often). I'm not sure what his ideal sexual frequency would be, but it's clearly either not the same as mine anymore, or if he would actually like it more often than we are having it, then there is some issue stopping him. We had sex multiple times a day earlier on in our relationship, during the "honeymoon" phase. Now we have sex 1.5 times a week on average. The thing is, I would still love to have sex as often as we did at the beginning, but he's changed. It's such a vital way for me to connect with him and about so so much more for me than just base pleasure. He never has a problem getting an erection (he has even on occasion rejected me for sex when he had an erection), so it's not a physical issue in that sense. He seems to truly really enjoy it whenever we do have sex, so it's not that he doesn't think our sex is fun or that he doesn't get turned on. He doesn't have trouble having an orgasm or giving me one. He's still affectionate and cuddly. He's just often not wanting to have sex (or make out, since that might lead to sex) for some reason. Excuses include feeling sick, being tired and being stressed about work. I'm sure he does feel sick a lot of the time, but I can't help but worry that it is the stress of the idea of connecting intimately with me physically that is making him sick. No idea if that worry is just in my head though! I do think that if he wanted to have more sex with me and feeling sick were his only issue, then surely he would be all over me every chance he got when he wasn't feeling sick, and/or trying to find out how to improve his health issues, wouldn't he? I think excuses to not have sex are just excuses, because if you really want to have frequent sex and a healthy happy sex life, you prioritize it and make a point to overcome or work around any issues together, right? I don't know if his waning interest in sex is a result of him feeling more secure as our relationship has gone on, like perhaps he was just more interested in sex when he was winning me over or when he has felt worried I might leave him and now he is just getting bored since he knows I will have sex with him literally any time he wants, or if it could be that he might be feeling avoidant. Or maybe it's another reason entirely. Do AP or secure people also avoid sex sometimes? I can't help obsessing over why this is happening and noticing any little things that make me wonder if it's an avoidant thing. He will physically pull away from me. Maybe I am just paranoid because my last (FA) boyfriend dumped me without warning, and a part of me must still be afraid of either that happening again or someone just slowly withdrawing all sex or shutting me out. I do not want a sexless relationship. Many years ago, I once stopped having sex with a serious long-term boyfriend (and eventually broke up with him). I still feel guilty about that relationship, and sometimes it's like I wonder if I will be "punished" or made to see what it feels like by having the same thing happen to me. I know I probably sound crazy but I am feeling triggered right now. I also have flashbacks to an old boyfriend I had, who had narcissistic personality disorder, and the nights I spent lying in bed with his back turned to me, crying silently because he didn't want to have sex with me. Part of me just wants to break up with my boyfriend! If I look at the relationship rationally, I am significantly happier in general in it than not, and it has improved my life and mood in general. But two issues, our sexual frequency being one of them, keep recurring and causing me a ton of stress. I go back and forth between thinking they are livable and could maybe be improved and that no relationship is perfect or effortless, and then sometimes feeling wildly unhappy about them and having thoughts of ending the relationship, thinking that it will only get worse, that these two things should be red flags, crying and feeling alone and confused. I read internet forums devoted to the topic of Dead Bedrooms, looking for clues about how to increase sex. Our bedroom isn't dead by any means, but it's got less life to it than I'd prefer and I want to nip this in the bud. A lot of the advice I've read seems to come from people who have not been successful in rekindling their partner's desire for them, so I don't know if I should take their advice. I want my boyfriend to WANT more sex, not to bully him into it by nagging, demands and ultimatums. I have only tried to talk to him about this issue a few times and they have not gone well. He gets angry and feels attacked and I cry and then he might eventually have sex with me, and then things go back to how they were. So clearly I need a different approach. I think talking about sex requires a lot of extra consideration and finesse than many other topics, and that it can easily backfire by making the lower-interest person feel criticized and pressured and even more turned off. My current strategy has been to: - decrease how often I try to initiate sex and to give up quickly if I do try to initiate and I don't quickly get a positive response from him. This helps me feel less pain of rejection at least. I wonder if because of my subtlety and lack of complaining that he might have no idea that I do still constantly feel rejected and would like to have way more sex than we are, though. - shut down my own libido so I don't really feel horny much anymore - not act hurt, he's certainly not going to magically want to have lots of sex because he saw how sad (or in his eyes, mad) it made me that he didn't - try to think up a plan about how I can feel and be sexier (that will be better for my self-esteem if I feel hot, even he's still not interested I won't worry as much that I'm unattractive) - try not to resent him or be scared to give him compliments etc - try to think up ways to talk to him about sex that aren't directly addressing the "I want more sex! Why don't you?!?" issue, but are more about just trying to get to know each other better, like maybe just chatting about sexual preferences etc - try to fill up my time and mind with other things so I'm not just sitting around wondering when we'll have sex Any other ideas? Thanks for the ideas that some of you have given me in the past. |
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 12, 2019 4:11:33 GMT
Is sex a measuring stick for you? I ask because I have noticed that with anxiously based individuals..like myself...there seems to be a need for a measuring stick. Mine was social media...number of likes compared to numbers of no likes...it felt like a personal statement if he did not like a photo...it felt like acceptance if he did. I never quantified what it actually meant because I was too busy being caught up in my interpretation. Just something you may want to explore.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 12, 2019 5:51:07 GMT
Is sex a measuring stick for you? I ask because I have noticed that with anxiously based individuals..like myself...there seems to be a need for a measuring stick. Mine was social media...number of likes compared to numbers of no likes...it felt like a personal statement if he did not like a photo...it felt like acceptance if he did. I never quantified what it actually meant because I was too busy being caught up in my interpretation. Just something you may want to explore. Interesting idea tnr9 , thanks. Like a way of measuring if I am loved and accepted? Sex is many many things to me, and yes validation is one of them. But I don't know if that means that my goal should just be to learn to be fine without much sex. I tried that and it feels like killing a part of me. A part that I like, that makes me feel connected to my partner and reduces stress and releases happy bonding chemicals. Someone who likes being texted back promptly shouldn't just learn to be ok with a partner who often takes 3 days to reply, they should probably just learn to be ok with waiting a few hours and find someone who cares enough about communication to not ghost them for days, right? My first reaction was that I don't think sex is quite the same as social media likes, as a person not liking my social media post could mean many things, but a person not wanting to have sex with me–while that could be for many reasons–means they don't want to have sex with me. Someone not liking my post could mean they haven't even seen it, among many other things. And I could also solve that problem a lot easier by getting rid of social media. I don't actually need my boyfriend to like my social media posts, but a fulfilling connected sex life is a real need for me in a romantic relationship and I don't think that's just me being AP-ish. But then I thought, I totally see your point in that I don't know what this decrease in sex means, I am just worrying about all the things it might mean. I think it's the change that scares me the most. I once dated someone who didn't want very frequent sex right from the get-go and I didn't take it personally at all. I thought we were probably incompatible, but I didn't think it said anything about my worth or about his feelings for me. But with my current boyfriend I thought wow we have perfectly matched sex drives, this is wonderful and I feel so physically and emotionally close to him, and then it dropped off and I was left to wonder why and whether it will continue to lessen. I don't know how to get the answers about what it actually means. The only answers I have gotten from him so far are that it's normal for sex to dwindle and I am abnormal, or his specific excuses for particular instances of rejection, like feeling stressed or sick. What are your feelings about sex as an AP? |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 12, 2019 7:51:32 GMT
www.google.com/amp/s/www.health.com/sex/how-often-couples-have-sex%3famp=trueJust so you know, he's average, you're not, when it comes to sex drive. Many couples experience a rush of hormones and libido in the honeymoon phase. Then it wanes, for many. My opinion is you have a high sex drive and his is average to low, based on what you have shared. Newness of the relationship is a mitigating factor that has worn off. From my perspective, your anxious attachment style has you failing to accept his realty, and being disrespectful here about how you characterize his preference to refrain. You use the word "excuses", which indicates to me, a non-accepting and bitter attitude. Sure, you want more sex. He doesn't. You might have to accept your differences and stop trying so hard to get him to come around to your preference. Differences are real and ought to be acknowledged without labeling the reasons as excuses. They are his reasons. In my opinion, You do sound judgmental of him, writing about what he should do to make you happy here. While it may come from your anxiety, It's still a failure to accept his preference. You wrote so much here about trying to change it. Do you really think that's reasonable? I don't, simply because people vary widely in this regard, and it's very personal and just the way one is built, the way one feels, the way one chooses to prioritize, the stress levels one encounters, the way one manages stress. If you aren't able to express your true, authentic feelings to him without encountering difficulty, take a look at that issue first. That could be an indicator of the health of the relationship of which sex or no sex is but a symptom. I would not feel comfortable in a relationship with sexual incompatibility to the degree and impact you describe. I also don't think he owes you anything in this regard, and a parting of ways may indeed suit you best if you really just accept him the way he is and decide it doesn't meet your needs. The tone of your post sounds like you are indeed anxiously insecure around this, and it's clouding your view of him and 1)his sincerity, 2) what you think should happen . Sexual incompatibility is a big topic, it's a deal breaker. Why twist him or yourself out of your natural shape? He doesn't seem to want that, and you seem to be the one wanting to do the twisting- both of yourself, and or him. It may be that your post just hit me wrong and you aren't trying to express that you think he's making excuses and possibly lying to you and avoiding you instead of being honest with you and standing by his own boundaries and limitations. It seems like you don't respect his autonomy and agency over his own body because of how it impacts you. I would not be able to change my drive to the extent you'd like (a rather large increase for him, in terms of frequency) and I don't think many could. Its a big gap, and seems to possibly be the reality of the relationship, not subject to change, post honeymoon. I write that because your attempts at discussion left him feeling attacked, and didn't result in change you seek. Accepting another's differences even if it means parting ways is difficult for many people but seems to be the bottom line for incompatibility. Acceptance and choice. A conversation i. which you present your authentic thoughts and feelings would be the next step I recommend, without expectation but with openness to accept what he tells you i. his response. I think that article is just talking about how often people on average have sex, isn't it, not how often couples have sex, particularly relatively newer couples like us. And keep in mind that that average is including people who are having no sex at all. I use the word "excuses" not to convey bitterness or blame, but because I believe there has to be something more going on. The reality is that he doesn't want to have sex often, because if he did he would have sex with me at the times that those barriers are not there or would work on the "reasons". If you are not having sex with someone only because you are tired that night, but you really want to have sex, you will likely have sex the next day when you are feeling rested and energetic. These "reasons" did not stop him back when he wanted frequent sex with me. If he had heartburn, for example, he would have sex with me the moment it subsided, or even would just ignore it. I think that there is a deeper reason(s) he doesn't want to have sex a lot of the time, even if it is only that the newness has worn off so he's not feeling excited and hormonal anymore, although I have various reasons to think there may be something beyond that going on. There is a lot of stuff I left out since my post was already so long and I was also worried that, as you say, it's possible my judgment is clouded by the anxiety this triggers in me so that I will paint a biased picture of him that will lead everyone to conclude he is avoidant. My goal was not really to have us all guess at his attachment type. I am not AP, by the way, I am FA. And that's why I posted in the FA section. I never said anything anywhere about what he "should do to make me happy". I only said I want more sex and that I want him to want more sex with me. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting that. Sure, wanting something like that doesn't make it happen and no I don't think it's "owed" to me. But it could be something that is actually achievable, who knows. Maybe there are a set of conditions that have to be in place for him to feel like having sex and those could be met more frequently. Maybe he could work on his health issues. Maybe he is feeling bad about his body and feels unsexy. Maybe if I wasn't so damn available all the time his libido would get a boost. Maybe he is feeling avoidant and has trouble having both emotional and physical intimacy together. Could be many things. I DO think it is reasonable for me to make an attempt to try to increase our sexual frequency and mutual satisfaction, and I don't think that it's awful to try to do that. Just like if you are in a relationship where you feel like communication could be different in order for it to meet your needs, it's not nuts to make an effort to improve it rather than just breaking up. Sexual frequency is not a set in stone thing, where some people just can only ever want sex once a week regardless of all other circumstances and nothing can change that and to even dream of it being different is an insult to who they are and their free will. Yes I do have trouble expressing my true feelings to him about sex (and a couple other things), that is why I am coming here for advice on how to do that. Yes sure, having better conversations about sex would be great, but HOW? This is a bit harsh: "It seems like you don't respect his autonomy and agency over his own body because of how it impacts you." Uh no, nowhere did I say he is obligated to have sex with me or can't make his own decisions about it, and I don't want him to have sex with me purely out of duty, but I am allowed to have emotions about our sexual frequency. I am allowed to wish it was more frequent. I don't think he has to do what I want, but I'm allowed to have desires and needs. And maybe a little less harshness and judgment would be more helpful when someone says they have been crying and feeling bad about themselves and feeling rejected. My previous attempts at discussion left him feeling what I perceived as "attacked" initially because he has some insecurity too and anything that involves me not being happy tends to trigger him and make him feel criticized and scared I'm going to break up with him. His response to this fear is often to get angry and say if I'm not 100% happy with things exactly how they are then I should just go find someone else. I think it's a protest behavior. Because if I say that makes me very sad and is not what I want and I don't expect that everything in a relationship should make one happy at all times, that's unrealistic, but ok, if that's how you feel then maybe you're right and we shouldn't be together, then he puts a lot of effort into convincing me not to leave (and we have some great sex for a day or two). Now, note that this has improved, we now deal with conflict better and it's been a long time since we had a near breakup, and those instances were few and far between anyway, but I'm just explaining this so perhaps you may understand some of the history better. These conversations did result in some change in how we talked about sex and how much sex we had but it was not lasting. We didn't get to the root of the issue I guess. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 9:45:34 GMT
happyidiot, i can empathize with you and what you're saying. I don't think it's wrong or unreasonable to be discussing this with your partner for all the reasons you've said; I think the real kicker is that you think he's not being honest in what he says to you, and that might or might not be true. if it was true that he was not honest e.g., there's more going on, then it indicates that he does not trust you/himself to address these things (he might not even be aware of these things himself and therefore, is dishonest with himself). If it was true that he was honest, but you don't think so, then clearly, you don't trust him him enough to be a honest, intimate, vulnerable partner with you. Either way, you don't know what the situation is. what you DO know is if you're communicating well or not, and if you trust him and vice versa, to work on issues together as a unit/team. Having better conversations about sex REQUIRES honesty on both ends on many aspects of the topic; if there is no honesty and no trust that the other person is being honest, you cannot have good conversations geared towards understanding, reconciling, and finding common ground. To be practical, I think you can take what sherry said as how he might have perceived your conversations - if she felt this way, you can bet that other people do too! it doesn't matter too much that you have other information and what your intentions are, people hear what they want to hear and that is what you have to deal with. On a side note, I think you should consider what both of them said very seriously - to leave because you are not happy with how things are. That is the condition he's issued you, and that is what you should take as truth. @sherry, I vaguely remember that you talked about how you discussed your needs with your partner when he didn't show up for you in the way you needed his support, and (I think) it went very well. If you are willing, could you share how you've done this or approached the conversation or what mindset you had? Perhaps it will shed some light on how to approach others respectfully when there is a conversation about unmet needs to be had.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 12, 2019 10:31:31 GMT
Is sex a measuring stick for you? I ask because I have noticed that with anxiously based individuals..like myself...there seems to be a need for a measuring stick. Mine was social media...number of likes compared to numbers of no likes...it felt like a personal statement if he did not like a photo...it felt like acceptance if he did. I never quantified what it actually meant because I was too busy being caught up in my interpretation. Just something you may want to explore. Interesting idea tnr9 , thanks. Like a way of measuring if I am loved and accepted? Sex is many many things to me, and yes validation is one of them. But I don't know if that means that my goal should just be to learn to be fine without much sex. I tried that and it feels like killing a part of me. A part that I like, that makes me feel connected to my partner and reduces stress and releases happy bonding chemicals. Someone who likes being texted back promptly shouldn't just learn to be ok with a partner who often takes 3 days to reply, they should probably just learn to be ok with waiting a few hours and find someone who cares enough about communication to not ghost them for days, right? My first reaction was that I don't think sex is quite the same as social media likes, as a person not liking my social media post could mean many things, but a person not wanting to have sex with me–while that could be for many reasons–means they don't want to have sex with me. Someone not liking my post could mean they haven't even seen it, among many other things. And I could also solve that problem a lot easier by getting rid of social media. I don't actually need my boyfriend to like my social media posts, but a fulfilling connected sex life is a real need for me in a romantic relationship and I don't think that's just me being AP-ish. But then I thought, I totally see your point in that I don't know what this decrease in sex means, I am just worrying about all the things it might mean. I think it's the change that scares me the most. I once dated someone who didn't want very frequent sex right from the get-go and I didn't take it personally at all. I thought we were probably incompatible, but I didn't think it said anything about my worth or about his feelings for me. But with my current boyfriend I thought wow we have perfectly matched sex drives, this is wonderful and I feel so physically and emotionally close to him, and then it dropped off and I was left to wonder why and whether it will continue to lessen. I don't know how to get the answers about what it actually means. The only answers I have gotten from him so far are that it's normal for sex to dwindle and I am abnormal, or his specific excuses for particular instances of rejection, like feeling stressed or sick. What are your feelings about sex as an AP? So...I am probably the wrong person to ask...because there is a ton of guilt that I have around sex...primarily because I am a Christian....and we are supposed to abstain from sex until married. B and I struggled a lot because there was this undeniable physical chemistry...and what we did do,I felt made my bond to him even more intense. |
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Post by 8675309 on Sept 12, 2019 11:09:44 GMT
For me personally as a secure, when Im losing/lost attraction is when I dont want sex. Sure sometimes Im just tired or the like but I dont lose drive. May not be like the honeymoon phase but its still regular.
When I start to lose interest in sex with my partner I know we are on our way to a break up, Ive lost that 'lovin' feeling'.
Youre not abnormal for wanting sex more than once a week!! Id certainly be bothered if I was not getting sex...
Also if hes sick/tired more often than not, he needs to take a look in the mirror. Why is he always sick? What can he do to improve always being tired? What can he do to improve stress from work? Why is he not sick of being sick, tired and stressed if you know what I mean? Being sick/tired/stressed all the time is not normal nor a healty way to live.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 12:12:29 GMT
8675309, clarifying because you used the word abnormal and I wanted to reiterate, ,I used the words "high, average, low" and "differences" and avoided any connotation other than to acknowledge variance. I didn't know if you were following up on my comment or not but that's where I was coming from. 7-14 times a week is much higher than the current 1.5 and I would say one drive is high and one is average to low, not a judgement. In response to the comment about talking about needs, it did go well after feelings calmed down. At the point that I discussed this with him I told him about my feelings of hurt, and betrayal, and sadness. I expressed that he is indeed my best friend and that our relationship has the qualities of mutual support, gentleness, and tolerance, and that we had worked hard to be able to offer that to each other consistently. His reaction at the time of impact was out of character for our relationship, and while I understood the emotional impact on him at the moment, (he was triggered anxious and was feeling insecure and defensive) it still was very wounding to me. I told him that he is more important to me than other people who might talk to me in painful tones, with painful words, and that I could handle it from anyone but him because I trust him and I count on him to be my friend. He agreed with what I was saying and made a promise to try to be more mindful of those emotional needs around conflict. Knowing that people become upset and say things they don't mean or come to regret, we agreed to move toward the kindness, tolerance and respect and therefore repair, as quickly as possible, leaving pride and anger to the side as best we can so that we can care for each other the way we want and intend to even in conflict. It's a process of growth. It was a very vulnerable but assertive and openhearted conversation in which essentially I asked for his help and he moved to help me feel better and acknowledge my needs with understanding and support.
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Post by 8675309 on Sept 12, 2019 13:50:12 GMT
@sherry I was referencing his comment to her. "The only answers I have gotten from him so far are that it's normal for sex to dwindle and I am abnormal"
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 12, 2019 20:43:02 GMT
happyidiot I was addressing the AP side of your FA as I see operating here. Apparently both your boyfriend and I are out of line in your perception. and now you feel attacked. I don't know why people here think he is lying to you, his reasons are legit for a lot of people. I'll refrain from further comment as I said what I meant and it didn't go over well. @sherry Quit putting words in my mouth and just ask questions if you aren't clear on what I think. I never said he is lying to me, I in fact said I am sure he DOES feel sick etc at the time he rejects me and says something like that, and no one else said he is lying either. I said that if sex is a priority to someone they would make it a priority and that there can be deeper reasons someone doesn't make sex a priority (not to mention pulls away from mere kisses and hugs at times), could be anything from that they just don't care about sex very much and never want to do it unless it's their idea, to they hate their body, to they are avoidant and can't handle the closeness, and so on. I'm not sure how else to explain what I mean by "excuses" besides what I said in my previous post. Sorry you didn't like that word. There are times when I make (usually more subtle) advances and he rejects them with no explanation as well. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 13, 2019 0:49:18 GMT
happyidiot , i can empathize with you and what you're saying. I don't think it's wrong or unreasonable to be discussing this with your partner for all the reasons you've said; I think the real kicker is that you think he's not being honest in what he says to you, and that might or might not be true. if it was true that he was not honest e.g., there's more going on, then it indicates that he does not trust you/himself to address these things (he might not even be aware of these things himself and therefore, is dishonest with himself). If it was true that he was honest, but you don't think so, then clearly, you don't trust him him enough to be a honest, intimate, vulnerable partner with you. Either way, you don't know what the situation is. what you DO know is if you're communicating well or not, and if you trust him and vice versa, to work on issues together as a unit/team. Having better conversations about sex REQUIRES honesty on both ends on many aspects of the topic; if there is no honesty and no trust that the other person is being honest, you cannot have good conversations geared towards understanding, reconciling, and finding common ground. To be practical, I think you can take what sherry said as how he might have perceived your conversations - if she felt this way, you can bet that other people do too! it doesn't matter too much that you have other information and what your intentions are, people hear what they want to hear and that is what you have to deal with. On a side note, I think you should consider what both of them said very seriously - to leave because you are not happy with how things are. That is the condition he's issued you, and that is what you should take as truth. sherry I vaguely remember that you talked about how you discussed your needs with your partner when he didn't show up for you in the way you needed his support, and (I think) it went very well. If you are willing, could you share how you've done this or approached the conversation or what mindset you had? Perhaps it will shed some light on how to approach others respectfully when there is a conversation about unmet needs to be had. What sherry thinks about my post has nothing to do with how my boyfriend perceived our conversations about sex, since I obviously didn't tell him what I said in my post and I didn't say anything in my post about what I said to him. I'm not responding to her further because this is obviously very triggering to her and she thinks I'm "nasty" for saying she doesn't understand me and is threatening to block me. Perhaps you just meant that people can obviously get mad about the suggestion of more sex and hear things differently than you meant them? If so, sure, of course. [Edit: not that I've even exactly asked for more sex, I mostly expressed some of my emotions] What my boyfriend has heard when I have brought up sex previously is that I am not happy, which freaked him out and triggered him. He worried I might eventually break up with him over it and started imagining unusual scenarios where we have been married for 20 years and suddenly he gets dick cancer or something and can no longer have sex and I dump him. I would certainly never do that, but he's not 100% wrong in that a growing disparity between the frequency I would like and the frequency we actually have sex DOES make me wonder if I can live with that forever. Him snapping that I should leave him if I'm not totally happy at all times during the heat of the moment is certainly not a serious condition he's issued. He completely retracted that very quickly. It is insecure to expect that the right person would be totally thrilled with everything you do or don't do and never feel bad about anything. He knows that. I just need to broach the topic of sex more carefully (and at a better time when neither of us are stressed) in the future, to reduce the risk of it being so anxiety-inducing. My goal here is to have a sex life with my boyfriend that makes us BOTH happy. I firmly believe it is not awful to have that as a goal. Thanks for your empathy. I don't yet have reason to think it's impossible that we could both be happy with our sex life. I don't know if he is even happy with our sex life right now. I'm not. There is definitely a lot more room for us to work on this. I don't think it is a thing we should just break up over without trying. If every couple who didn't have an effortlessly perfectly matched interest in sex immediately broke up, well, there'd be a lot more breakups. If I felt truly happy and fulfilled by our sex life then it wouldn't even matter how many times a week we have sex, it doesn't HAVE to be the 4 times/week I currently feel I would be content with, but one route to increasing my happiness with our sex life could be increasing the frequency. My boyfriend might even like that, if he could WANT sex more often, because he loves and thoroughly enjoys sex, it's not like it's some unpleasant thing to him. This is all stuff I still have to figure out with him. And it seems there are 2 possible paths aside from me just trying to force myself to adjust to him or leaving. - figure out how and when to talk to him properly about sex and make myself do it - inspire him to want more sex with me in other ways (if that's possible) I don't mean that I think those options are mutually exclusive. I also read somewhere (it was a psychologist saying it) that communication about sex doesn’t always require words, and in fact, words can get in the way. It's interesting to think about. You're right that we both don't trust each other enough to be totally honest, intimate, and vulnerable. We are not there yet. It's hard for me to imagine getting completely there with anyone, I have only ever had that with one person in my entire life. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 13, 2019 1:07:28 GMT
What are your feelings about sex as an AP? So...I am probably the wrong person to ask...because there is a ton of guilt that I have around sex...primarily because I am a Christian....and we are supposed to abstain from sex until married. B and I struggled a lot because there was this undeniable physical chemistry...and what we did do,I felt made my bond to him even more intense. Hmm, while he isn't currently religious my boyfriend was raised in a church that promotes guilt around sex, so your experience may not be totally irrelevant. |
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Post by nyc718 on Sept 13, 2019 3:00:00 GMT
@sherry Quit putting words in my mouth and just ask questions if you aren't clear on what I think. I never said he is lying to me, I in fact said I am sure he DOES feel sick etc at the time he rejects me and says something like that, and no one else said he is lying either. I said that if sex is a priority to someone they would make it a priority and that there can be deeper reasons someone doesn't make sex a priority (not to mention pulls away from mere kisses and hugs at times), could be anything from that they just don't care about sex very much and never want to do it unless it's their idea, to they hate their body, to they are avoidant and can't handle the closeness, and so on. I'm not sure how else to explain what I mean by "excuses" besides what I said in my previous post. Sorry you didn't like that word. There are times when I make (usually more subtle) advances and he rejects them with no explanation as well. Man, you're nasty. Your post said you don't know if his waning interest in sex is this that or the other instead of the reasons you listed that he actually told you. That would mean he's lying if he says he sick or stressed but it's actually that he's bored, or some other reason entirely. I can't interact with you and would prefer a block, please just don't interact with me either . I actually am not reading that as he is lying. I am reading it as it could be something else and he is attributing it to those things. That isn't lying, that could very well be he just doesn't even know himself where it's coming from, but it's easy to just say he's sick or tired. My two cents. I have seen a lot of your replies and I have to say I agree, you do kind of jump to conclusions a lot. There is very little shades of grey for you and you do get defensive when someone tries to tell you that how you read it is not, in fact, what they meant... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 4:58:29 GMT
happyidiot , i can empathize with you and what you're saying. I don't think it's wrong or unreasonable to be discussing this with your partner for all the reasons you've said; I think the real kicker is that you think he's not being honest in what he says to you, and that might or might not be true. if it was true that he was not honest e.g., there's more going on, then it indicates that he does not trust you/himself to address these things (he might not even be aware of these things himself and therefore, is dishonest with himself). If it was true that he was honest, but you don't think so, then clearly, you don't trust him him enough to be a honest, intimate, vulnerable partner with you. Either way, you don't know what the situation is. what you DO know is if you're communicating well or not, and if you trust him and vice versa, to work on issues together as a unit/team. Having better conversations about sex REQUIRES honesty on both ends on many aspects of the topic; if there is no honesty and no trust that the other person is being honest, you cannot have good conversations geared towards understanding, reconciling, and finding common ground. To be practical, I think you can take what sherry said as how he might have perceived your conversations - if she felt this way, you can bet that other people do too! it doesn't matter too much that you have other information and what your intentions are, people hear what they want to hear and that is what you have to deal with. On a side note, I think you should consider what both of them said very seriously - to leave because you are not happy with how things are. That is the condition he's issued you, and that is what you should take as truth. sherry I vaguely remember that you talked about how you discussed your needs with your partner when he didn't show up for you in the way you needed his support, and (I think) it went very well. If you are willing, could you share how you've done this or approached the conversation or what mindset you had? Perhaps it will shed some light on how to approach others respectfully when there is a conversation about unmet needs to be had. What sherry thinks about my post has nothing to do with how my boyfriend perceived our conversations about sex, since I obviously didn't tell him what I said in my post and I didn't say anything in my post about what I said to him. I'm not responding to her further because this is obviously very triggering to her and she thinks I'm "nasty" for saying she doesn't understand me and is threatening to block me. Perhaps you just meant that people can obviously get mad about the suggestion of more sex and hear things differently than you meant them? If so, sure, of course. [Edit: not that I've even exactly asked for more sex, I mostly expressed some of my emotions] >> yes, i meant that people hear things differently - different perceptions, triggers, understanding, viewpoints, and boundaries. So you can take her response as an example of how he might have heard you and thus reacted in a particular fashion. What my boyfriend has heard when I have brought up sex previously is that I am not happy, which freaked him out and triggered him. He worried I might eventually break up with him over it and started imagining unusual scenarios where we have been married for 20 years and suddenly he gets dick cancer or something and can no longer have sex and I dump him. I would certainly never do that, but he's not 100% wrong in that a growing disparity between the frequency I would like and the frequency we actually have sex DOES make me wonder if I can live with that forever. Him snapping that I should leave him if I'm not totally happy at all times during the heat of the moment is certainly not a serious condition he's issued. He completely retracted that very quickly. It is insecure to expect that the right person would be totally thrilled with everything you do or don't do and never feel bad about anything. He knows that. I just need to broach the topic of sex more carefully (and at a better time when neither of us are stressed) in the future, to reduce the risk of it being so anxiety-inducing. >> yes, it's not "serious" in the sense that it is a real and genuine condition that is being discussed for future, but it's definitely "serious" in the sense that it is insecure behavior that prevents progress. Rather than making excuses for it and then trying to work around that trigger without him taking some responsibility for it, i would take the stance that he is an adult and is responsible for his words and should take accountability for what he says to you; some space for tolerance and slip ups is fine, but if that's the go-to reaction with no real awareness of the self, I consider tolerating it a complete waste of energy and time. on that note, it would be important to take what sherry has said objectively - are the words you're using an accurate reflection of what you're trying to say? can you clean up your narrative in your own mind so that you take ownership of only what you want/afraid of/feel, rather than things that imply judgment of him? I know that you don't mean to but when FAs are triggered into APs (i do absolutely the same!!), it's often what happens because there's so much sense making of the other party and of yourself, rather than a cold evaluation of the facts and an acceptance of the situation as is. That's really really important because it will allow you to be calmer, clearer, kinder and also less triggered and triggering. My goal here is to have a sex life with my boyfriend that makes us BOTH happy. I firmly believe it is not awful to have that as a goal. Thanks for your empathy. I don't yet have reason to think it's impossible that we could both be happy with our sex life. I don't know if he is even happy with our sex life right now. I'm not. There is definitely a lot more room for us to work on this. I don't think it is a thing we should just break up over without trying. If every couple who didn't have an effortlessly perfectly matched interest in sex immediately broke up, well, there'd be a lot more breakups. If I felt truly happy and fulfilled by our sex life then it wouldn't even matter how many times a week we have sex, it doesn't HAVE to be the 4 times/week I currently feel I would be content with, but one route to increasing my happiness with our sex life could be increasing the frequency. My boyfriend might even like that, if he could WANT sex more often, because he loves and thoroughly enjoys sex, it's not like it's some unpleasant thing to him. This is all stuff I still have to figure out with him. And it seems there are 2 possible paths aside from me just trying to force myself to adjust to him or leaving. >> of course, it is not awful to have that as a goal - be clear about what it is that you want. If he says that he is absolutely happy about the way things are now and do not want to alter it in a way that makes you happy, are you ok with that? It's just something to ponder about when you're goal setting, so that you can define and redefine the goals for yourself.
the part i highlighted in bold here comes across as AP and controlling - it might very well be true what you said, but it is contingent on "if he could want sex more often". he doesn't, from his actions. these sort of sentences and phrases indicate cognition/thoughts that are inherently offputting to most people. also, he did not indicate that he wants more sex, so this goal of yours to inspire him to have more sex is not aligning with what he has said - this also can be seen as disrespectful and disregarding other people's wishes, no matter whether you think he was completely honest or not. This is in contradiction to the goal you're specifying here - he seems happy with what is (you said you don't know, but he seems to indicate that he thinks right now it's normal and ok), you're explicitly not. If he is unhappy about it, he would have said/done something about it. I'm not saying this to judge you, so please don't analyse this and pick apart my words, but more from a place of hindsight after having been there myself and I recognize it. - figure out how and when to talk to him properly about sex and make myself do it - inspire him to want more sex with me in other ways (if that's possible) I don't mean that I think those options are mutually exclusive. I also read somewhere (it was a psychologist saying it) that communication about sex doesn’t always require words, and in fact, words can get in the way. It's interesting to think about. You're right that we both don't trust each other enough to be totally honest, intimate, and vulnerable. We are not there yet. It's hard for me to imagine getting completely there with anyone, I have only ever had that with one person in my entire life. >> this is really fundamental for having good conversations and having more sex. maybe, instead of focusing only on having the sex conversations (which I think can still happen and over time), also pay alot of attention on yourself and your ability to have honest and intimate conversations - if you got the skills, the topics are really secondary. good luck with these conversations! |
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Post by nyc718 on Sept 13, 2019 11:42:25 GMT
I actually am not reading that as he is lying. I am reading it as it could be something else and he is attributing it to those things. That isn't lying, that could very well be he just doesn't even know himself where it's coming from, but it's easy to just say he's sick or tired. My two cents. I have seen a lot of your replies and I have to say I agree, you do kind of jump to conclusions a lot. There is very little shades of grey for you and you do get defensive when someone tries to tell you that how you read it is not, in fact, what they meant... Lady. Now you're assuming I meant something by the word lying.... something bad maybe. Lying is lying, Within lying is shades of gray, maybe read an article about it from researchers and you can actually open your own mind to what it means. BTW- it's an AP trait to second guess every effing thing a partner says and does to make it about them, and it's alienating and annoying to partners. If he is sick he's sick, an AP won't empathize, they will make it about rejection and somehow something caused by a lack of wanting to be close- Read the OP threads here about that. If someone is stressed, no empathy for that because it's about rejecting the AP. By the end of this thread I am going with the idea that he's losing that loving feeling like a secure might, because this is a LOT. It's not triggering to me, no- I'm thrilled with my sex life and don't have anyone in my life mindfucking everything all day long. It's. lot, when really- as the article states- happy couples have sex less frequently and more along the lines of what is occurring here. I'm not making up the research. There are variations but the consensus is, it's up to the individuals. No matter the cause, if one person wants more than the other there will be discomfort. I won't backtrack on calling dishonesty a lie, and neither do these researchers. We all think and communicate different ways and honestly, anxiety complicates the HELL out of things. Constantly. www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/better/amp/ncna786326It's hard for me to see through all this hostility, really. I recall a similar exchange with you in I think my first post. It was full of assumptions, and even though i tried to clarify that what I said wasn't how you interpreted it, you were extremely defensive and hostile then, but turning it around on me and calling me nasty ( seems to be your go-to). You are free to feel and think what you want, but your own delivery isn't always the most conducive to peaceful conversation. You also did say in one of your replies to this post that perhaps it was hitting you wrong. It was definitely hitting you wrong, but it isn't really all about you. She wasn't talking about YOU. So perhaps, yes you WERE triggered even though you said it's not triggering to you. Just saying. |
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