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Post by nyc718 on Sept 13, 2019 11:51:51 GMT
www.google.com/amp/s/www.health.com/sex/how-often-couples-have-sex%3famp=trueJust so you know, he's average, you're not, when it comes to sex drive. Many couples experience a rush of hormones and libido in the honeymoon phase. Then it wanes, for many. My opinion is you have a high sex drive and his is average to low, based on what you have shared. Newness of the relationship is a mitigating factor that has worn off. From my perspective, your anxious attachment style has you failing to accept his realty, and being disrespectful here about how you characterize his preference to refrain. You use the word "excuses", which indicates to me, a non-accepting and bitter attitude. Sure, you want more sex. He doesn't. You might have to accept your differences and stop trying so hard to get him to come around to your preference. Differences are real and ought to be acknowledged without labeling the reasons as excuses. They are his reasons. In my opinion, You do sound judgmental of him, writing about what he should do to make you happy here. While it may come from your anxiety, It's still a failure to accept his preference. You wrote so much here about trying to change it. Do you really think that's reasonable? I don't, simply because people vary widely in this regard, and it's very personal and just the way one is built, the way one feels, the way one chooses to prioritize, the stress levels one encounters, the way one manages stress. If you aren't able to express your true, authentic feelings to him without encountering difficulty, take a look at that issue first. That could be an indicator of the health of the relationship of which sex or no sex is but a symptom. I would not feel comfortable in a relationship with sexual incompatibility to the degree and impact you describe. I also don't think he owes you anything in this regard, and a parting of ways may indeed suit you best if you really just accept him the way he is and decide it doesn't meet your needs. The tone of your post sounds like you are indeed anxiously insecure around this, and it's clouding your view of him and 1)his sincerity, 2) what you think should happen . Sexual incompatibility is a big topic, it's a deal breaker. Why twist him or yourself out of your natural shape? He doesn't seem to want that, and you seem to be the one wanting to do the twisting- both of yourself, and or him. It may be that your post just hit me wrong and you aren't trying to express that you think he's making excuses and possibly lying to you and avoiding you instead of being honest with you and standing by his own boundaries and limitations. It seems like you don't respect his autonomy and agency over his own body because of how it impacts you. I would not be able to change my drive to the extent you'd like (a rather large increase for him, in terms of frequency) and I don't think many could. Its a big gap, and seems to possibly be the reality of the relationship, not subject to change, post honeymoon. I write that because your attempts at discussion left him feeling attacked, and didn't result in change you seek. Accepting another's differences even if it means parting ways is difficult for many people but seems to be the bottom line for incompatibility. Acceptance and choice. A conversation i. which you present your authentic thoughts and feelings would be the next step I recommend, without expectation but with openness to accept what he tells you i. his response. I think that article is just talking about how often people on average have sex, isn't it, not how often couples have sex, particularly relatively newer couples like us. And keep in mind that that average is including people who are having no sex at all. I use the word "excuses" not to convey bitterness or blame, but because I believe there has to be something more going on. The reality is that he doesn't want to have sex often, because if he did he would have sex with me at the times that those barriers are not there or would work on the "reasons". If you are not having sex with someone only because you are tired that night, but you really want to have sex, you will likely have sex the next day when you are feeling rested and energetic. These "reasons" did not stop him back when he wanted frequent sex with me. If he had heartburn, for example, he would have sex with me the moment it subsided, or even would just ignore it. I think that there is a deeper reason(s) he doesn't want to have sex a lot of the time, even if it is only that the newness has worn off so he's not feeling excited and hormonal anymore, although I have various reasons to think there may be something beyond that going on. There is a lot of stuff I left out since my post was already so long and I was also worried that, as you say, it's possible my judgment is clouded by the anxiety this triggers in me so that I will paint a biased picture of him that will lead everyone to conclude he is avoidant. My goal was not really to have us all guess at his attachment type. I am not AP, by the way, I am FA. And that's why I posted in the FA section. I never said anything anywhere about what he "should do to make me happy". I only said I want more sex and that I want him to want more sex with me. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting that. Sure, wanting something like that doesn't make it happen and no I don't think it's "owed" to me. But it could be something that is actually achievable, who knows. Maybe there are a set of conditions that have to be in place for him to feel like having sex and those could be met more frequently. Maybe he could work on his health issues. Maybe he is feeling bad about his body and feels unsexy. Maybe if I wasn't so damn available all the time his libido would get a boost. Maybe he is feeling avoidant and has trouble having both emotional and physical intimacy together. Could be many things. I DO think it is reasonable for me to make an attempt to try to increase our sexual frequency and mutual satisfaction, and I don't think that it's awful to try to do that. Just like if you are in a relationship where you feel like communication could be different in order for it to meet your needs, it's not nuts to make an effort to improve it rather than just breaking up. Sexual frequency is not a set in stone thing, where some people just can only ever want sex once a week regardless of all other circumstances and nothing can change that and to even dream of it being different is an insult to who they are and their free will. Yes I do have trouble expressing my true feelings to him about sex (and a couple other things), that is why I am coming here for advice on how to do that. Yes sure, having better conversations about sex would be great, but HOW? This is a bit harsh: "It seems like you don't respect his autonomy and agency over his own body because of how it impacts you." Uh no, nowhere did I say he is obligated to have sex with me or can't make his own decisions about it, and I don't want him to have sex with me purely out of duty, but I am allowed to have emotions about our sexual frequency. I am allowed to wish it was more frequent. I don't think he has to do what I want, but I'm allowed to have desires and needs. And maybe a little less harshness and judgment would be more helpful when someone says they have been crying and feeling bad about themselves and feeling rejected. My previous attempts at discussion left him feeling what I perceived as "attacked" initially because he has some insecurity too and anything that involves me not being happy tends to trigger him and make him feel criticized and scared I'm going to break up with him. His response to this fear is often to get angry and say if I'm not 100% happy with things exactly how they are then I should just go find someone else. I think it's a protest behavior. Because if I say that makes me very sad and is not what I want and I don't expect that everything in a relationship should make one happy at all times, that's unrealistic, but ok, if that's how you feel then maybe you're right and we shouldn't be together, then he puts a lot of effort into convincing me not to leave (and we have some great sex for a day or two). Now, note that this has improved, we now deal with conflict better and it's been a long time since we had a near breakup, and those instances were few and far between anyway, but I'm just explaining this so perhaps you may understand some of the history better. These conversations did result in some change in how we talked about sex and how much sex we had but it was not lasting. We didn't get to the root of the issue I guess. I agree with you, I don't think you at all said that you don't respect his autonomy and agency over his body, etc.. She seems to read everything from her own perspective and project that onto others. I read your post entirely for what it is and I see that you are genuinely asking and wondering how to best handle your situation with your significant other. I don't see that you are being thoughtless or otherwise malicious, just trying to figure things out with him. Relationships aren't easy for many, that's why we are all here, we are trying to figure things out. Anyway, just wanted to give you some support against what I see as some unsupportive remarks. I do see some effort though in trying to help you, but then the remarks that then point the finger at you at the things that you are doing wrong are not really delivered in a constructive or meaningful way, imo. |
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Post by nyc718 on Sept 13, 2019 13:28:43 GMT
nyc718 when you anxious people are triggered in this board it's a real shitshow and your self awareness goes out the window. It takes other anxious people to point it out. It is nasty, that's just my opinion and it's wearing. The board is saturated with anxiety at the moment. Probably better to leave it for for the anxious folk, it's baffling and like walking into a tantrum. Everything turns into an emotional storm and reason or objectivity goes out the window. This post isn't in the support forum but should have been if she didn't want other feedback. I'm with @shiningstar , she went into more detail about the offensiveness of OP's position. Again, it takes another anxious person to say it. She used a lot more verbiage and adjectives but I'm sure it's constructive. And it's my opinion that you are often very nasty yourself and you are also wearing. Yes, this board is saturated with anxiety, that's the whole point of this place. And your replies sound like tantrums to me when you get all high and mighty and decide that you somehow know better than an OP about what they mean than what they mean themselves, then when they say no, that's not what I meant, you resort to calling them nasty. Maybe check yourself sometime instead of pointing that finger of judgment constantly. We are all working on ourselves, get off your high horse. I maintain my stance that your delivery could use some fine tuning if you want it to actually be helpful. It's so annoying to hear people like you say anyone SHOULD do anything. Maybe YOU should just tone it down and take a breath and try to see through another, more calm and peaceful lens yourself. But whatever. |
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jules
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Post by jules on Sept 13, 2019 13:46:38 GMT
Sherry in the short amount of time I have visited this site I have watched you get into it with now several people, including myself. And one member called you by an ex members name, so there's that. Smoke, fire?
You do have some very astute things to say but you do come across as a know it all.
Positively *everyone has to check themselves. If you point a finger, 3 more point back at you.
Like it or not you are the common denominator. Calling names or derogatory adjectives is weak.
You called me defensive as you have now called the OP. Perhaps you are offensive?
It's a shit shame when bs like this derails an actual post. And its not an attachment thing. It's a comprehension thing. You don't know? Ask.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 14:01:10 GMT
There is way too much bitterness on this thread.
We all hear things we don't like in life.
I don't understand why it doesn't just get ignored. Move on. Put them on block list. I don't quite understand why wait for another separate disagreement to take place and some members have to wait to pounce like hyenas.
That's bitterness.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 13, 2019 14:22:08 GMT
So.....I do agree with Sherry from my own journey that I do tend to read into everything, question everything as my first automatic response......but that is me...and I am working on that...I cannot speak to anyone else’s journey on this board.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 13, 2019 14:26:13 GMT
So...I am probably the wrong person to ask...because there is a ton of guilt that I have around sex...primarily because I am a Christian....and we are supposed to abstain from sex until married. B and I struggled a lot because there was this undeniable physical chemistry...and what we did do,I felt made my bond to him even more intense. Hmm, while he isn't currently religious my boyfriend was raised in a church that promotes guilt around sex, so your experience may not be totally irrelevant. Yeh....sex before marriage is a big issue.....and I think it might be beneficial to explore that with him....in an open dialogue way....not saying that is what is going on...but it made provide some additional clarity. Sex plus guilt is not such a great place to be...but....I have had that since day 1...it was not something that impacted me after months of dating. |
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Post by nyc718 on Sept 13, 2019 14:32:46 GMT
AP read into a post like crazy. Projecting all their intense emotion. 😱😡🤯 The board isn't just for anxious people but you can have it. Well, maybe you're AP yourself then... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 23:11:30 GMT
What sherry thinks about my post has nothing to do with how my boyfriend perceived our conversations about sex, since I obviously didn't tell him what I said in my post and I didn't say anything in my post about what I said to him. I'm not responding to her further because this is obviously very triggering to her and she thinks I'm "nasty" for saying she doesn't understand me and is threatening to block me. Perhaps you just meant that people can obviously get mad about the suggestion of more sex and hear things differently than you meant them? If so, sure, of course. [Edit: not that I've even exactly asked for more sex, I mostly expressed some of my emotions] >> yes, i meant that people hear things differently - different perceptions, triggers, understanding, viewpoints, and boundaries. So you can take her response as an example of how he might have heard you and thus reacted in a particular fashion. What my boyfriend has heard when I have brought up sex previously is that I am not happy, which freaked him out and triggered him. He worried I might eventually break up with him over it and started imagining unusual scenarios where we have been married for 20 years and suddenly he gets dick cancer or something and can no longer have sex and I dump him. I would certainly never do that, but he's not 100% wrong in that a growing disparity between the frequency I would like and the frequency we actually have sex DOES make me wonder if I can live with that forever. Him snapping that I should leave him if I'm not totally happy at all times during the heat of the moment is certainly not a serious condition he's issued. He completely retracted that very quickly. It is insecure to expect that the right person would be totally thrilled with everything you do or don't do and never feel bad about anything. He knows that. I just need to broach the topic of sex more carefully (and at a better time when neither of us are stressed) in the future, to reduce the risk of it being so anxiety-inducing. >> yes, it's not "serious" in the sense that it is a real and genuine condition that is being discussed for future, but it's definitely "serious" in the sense that it is insecure behavior that prevents progress. Rather than making excuses for it and then trying to work around that trigger without him taking some responsibility for it, i would take the stance that he is an adult and is responsible for his words and should take accountability for what he says to you; some space for tolerance and slip ups is fine, but if that's the go-to reaction with no real awareness of the self, I consider tolerating it a complete waste of energy and time. on that note, it would be important to take what sherry has said objectively - are the words you're using an accurate reflection of what you're trying to say? can you clean up your narrative in your own mind so that you take ownership of only what you want/afraid of/feel, rather than things that imply judgment of him? I know that you don't mean to but when FAs are triggered into APs (i do absolutely the same!!), it's often what happens because there's so much sense making of the other party and of yourself, rather than a cold evaluation of the facts and an acceptance of the situation as is. That's really really important because it will allow you to be calmer, clearer, kinder and also less triggered and triggering. My goal here is to have a sex life with my boyfriend that makes us BOTH happy. I firmly believe it is not awful to have that as a goal. Thanks for your empathy. I don't yet have reason to think it's impossible that we could both be happy with our sex life. I don't know if he is even happy with our sex life right now. I'm not. There is definitely a lot more room for us to work on this. I don't think it is a thing we should just break up over without trying. If every couple who didn't have an effortlessly perfectly matched interest in sex immediately broke up, well, there'd be a lot more breakups. If I felt truly happy and fulfilled by our sex life then it wouldn't even matter how many times a week we have sex, it doesn't HAVE to be the 4 times/week I currently feel I would be content with, but one route to increasing my happiness with our sex life could be increasing the frequency. My boyfriend might even like that, if he could WANT sex more often, because he loves and thoroughly enjoys sex, it's not like it's some unpleasant thing to him. This is all stuff I still have to figure out with him. And it seems there are 2 possible paths aside from me just trying to force myself to adjust to him or leaving. >> of course, it is not awful to have that as a goal - be clear about what it is that you want. If he says that he is absolutely happy about the way things are now and do not want to alter it in a way that makes you happy, are you ok with that? It's just something to ponder about when you're goal setting, so that you can define and redefine the goals for yourself.
the part i highlighted in bold here comes across as AP and controlling - it might very well be true what you said, but it is contingent on "if he could want sex more often". he doesn't, from his actions. these sort of sentences and phrases indicate cognition/thoughts that are inherently offputting to most people. also, he did not indicate that he wants more sex, so this goal of yours to inspire him to have more sex is not aligning with what he has said - this also can be seen as disrespectful and disregarding other people's wishes, no matter whether you think he was completely honest or not. This is in contradiction to the goal you're specifying here - he seems happy with what is (you said you don't know, but he seems to indicate that he thinks right now it's normal and ok), you're explicitly not. If he is unhappy about it, he would have said/done something about it. I'm not saying this to judge you, so please don't analyse this and pick apart my words, but more from a place of hindsight after having been there myself and I recognize it. - figure out how and when to talk to him properly about sex and make myself do it - inspire him to want more sex with me in other ways (if that's possible) I don't mean that I think those options are mutually exclusive. I also read somewhere (it was a psychologist saying it) that communication about sex doesn’t always require words, and in fact, words can get in the way. It's interesting to think about. You're right that we both don't trust each other enough to be totally honest, intimate, and vulnerable. We are not there yet. It's hard for me to imagine getting completely there with anyone, I have only ever had that with one person in my entire life. >> this is really fundamental for having good conversations and having more sex. maybe, instead of focusing only on having the sex conversations (which I think can still happen and over time), also pay alot of attention on yourself and your ability to have honest and intimate conversations - if you got the skills, the topics are really secondary. good luck with these conversations! , I want to be perfctly clear that I think your goal is perfectly fine and your feelings are understandable (and so are his), just that being triggered in your current state comes across in what and how you say/interpret/perceive things, which is not helpful for you, him, nor the conversations. this is not a judgment of you, but simply an acknowledgment of how your mental state will affect your approach to the matter. at the end of the day, imo, you can only have good proper conversations if both parties are honest and vulnerable but calm, loving and united. and that is what I wish for you first and foremost, because after that, the conversations will be alot more smooth sailing even if difficult. |
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