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Post by stu on Sept 13, 2019 20:05:36 GMT
Yes I approached the topic directly with her, it was a bit triggering but she openly discussed it and told me a therapist told her she was avoidant before . She said she was going to work on herself and wanted to change, and wanted to see a therapist again. But she still falls back into old cycles right now and is not far along enough to break her own cycles. She's esentially ghosted me the last three weeks after being very de activated from getting way to close to me. I'm so sorry to hear that. How are you handling that? I don't know exactly what this says about me, but I feel like if/when my Bf deactivates (the longest was 5 days, aside from our breakup in which he didn't communicate with me for two months) I would actually be ok. Why? because he has come back every time. I don't know that it means he will always come back, but I feel like I know it's not about me, and that helps me tremendously, whereas before I knew about attachment styles, I always thought it WAS about me. I also feel like if he actually does desert me for good one day, I mean, yes, it would feel shitty as all hell, but again, I know it it would not be about me and there would be nothing I could do about it. This is a chance I am willing to take with him at this moment. I may not always be willing to deal with this possibility of him just up and ghosting me, but at the moment, I am well aware it could happen. I do hope to open up the topic of attachment styles and see where it can go. I hope it's productive, but I know it may not be. If he didn't have enough actual redeeming qualities, I would drop him just like I had with another past BF who I realize after the fact was FA for sure. With that one, I did all I could and then I was done. It hurt but it was so much easier to walk away knowing there was nothing more I could do if he didn't do his part in the relationship. Months later, he was trying to put himself back on my radar, but by then I was done for good, never looked back. This current relationship could end up the same way, I know it. The thing is though, despite all of that, I have no regrets about any of my past relationships. I look at all of them as chapters in my journey in life. I simply don't and can't control other people, but I can enjoy what each of them brought to my life during the times they were in it. That's the way I choose to see it. It's really furstrating to be honest. And I just had to accept that it's basically over in my mind. The last we talked in person I was just trying to talk about what was going on between us and having a "serious conversation" , she walked away during the middle of it and then I left that night. I reached out a couple times since to mention that I understood ifshe felt overwhelmed or anything else. But that I wanted to talk about what we wanted and what we were both looking for and etc. Never got a response so once a week or so I would send a follow up message and said very positive and encouraging things but still was ignored except for one message, which said "I know you're going through a lot right now and I would just focus on yourself. I wouldn't worry about me. " It didn't even really connect with what I had mentioned to her so I didn't even know what to make of it, other then it sounded like she felt really negative about herself. I responded again saying very positive things to be supportive and encouraging and nothing back. Then a week later I asked if we could still get the chance to talk at least once, or if she was upset or didn't want to talk anymore to just let me know. Because I felt like I was in a weird spot. And still have not heard back. This was after seeing each other over a year and finally the last few months getting extremely close and no issues coming up at all. The de activation did not come out of anything I did to trigger her specifically or me causing any drama It just happened suddenly and randomly without anything I did specifically to trigger it. It's now been basically 4 weeks so I wouldn't even consider her someone I am seeing or working things out with at this point. Just confused why she would run for this long and not even read back out again and ghost as if I did something to really hurt her or something. I feel okay knowing it has nothing to do with me personally but whether you know that or not. It can still be very hurtful and feel a lot of grief being attached and loving someone end then suddenly they disappear and can't even give you a conversation about anything . Also we have mutual friends and the same social circle and social acqueintneces so ghosting doesn't even make sense in this situation. We have a lot of connection in each other's lives. This is someone who is actively trying to work on themselves and very self aware of their patterns. But still it happens and to this extent , so to me it feels like a break up and all the grief that goes with it, missing then and feeling so confused. Even though I know about attachment and everything else. It can still mess with you emotionally. I think about her all the time and miss her a lot . While having no idea what she's feeling or thinking herself. And just wanting to know what is going on for her, but she won't tell me anything. I totally feel you on trying everything you can when you love someone because I did the same exact as you and feel like we think very similarly as well. But you should make sure to protect your heart too. Because while you feel all these things and give so much, have as much patience as you can and all the effort you are putting in. It may not be recipocated and the emotional distress you go under they have essentially blocked themselves from feeling. The way they are percievijy things and feel about things can be completely different then us. So just be careful and make sure to take care of yourself first. P.s. I also feel really paranoid that people will know who I am, or the FA I was seeing will read my posts when I write such personal info about the whole thing. Not sure if anyone else ever feels similar lol |
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Post by dhali on Sept 13, 2019 22:29:16 GMT
Supplicant behavior is low value behavior. I can’t really blame someone for not cozying up to that. That’s regardless of attachment style. Even a hardcore AP would bail eventually.
These’s a fine line between being supportive and being a vessel for displaying whatever they emotions/behavior you divine they are desiring at the moment.
You’re referencing being supportive because of your new found knowledge, but you’re still sacrificing who you are, imo. I am on the side of - they can’t have a healthy relationship until they get help and work on it. That will have nothing to do with you.
Personally, if someone I’m with is triggered by me showing them my emotions, then we won’t work. Ever. Because I don’t ever want to be alone while I’m with someone. What’s the point? And to be with someone who has one foot out the door at all times (or at least often enough)? Life is way too short for that.
I loved a DA. If she wanted back, I’d have a hard time saying no, but it would also be easy. Now if she came back, and was in therapy for it AND wanted to go to couples therapy... ok. But none of that is on the table for me. Nor you. You’re doing ALL the work, and asking how it can succeed. It can only succeed if work is done- something you have no control over.
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Post by dhali on Sept 13, 2019 22:46:32 GMT
Stu- You should be so lucky to have an FA on here. It means they wants to be better, and are making an effort. It’s really hard work to achieve secure if you’re not. It takes years.
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Post by stu on Sept 13, 2019 23:50:35 GMT
Stu- You should be so lucky to have an FA on here. It means they wants to be better, and are making an effort. It’s really hard work to achieve secure if you’re not. It takes years. I wish that were the case but they aren't. They are trying to see a therapist and acknowedlging they have challenges and see what's going on with them. But isn't quite to the point of getting regular help consistently , I still get frustrated with the behaviors even though I understand it, and accept they are where they are. But having bad communication makes for a rough time for me. It still hurts being on the receiving end even if you know it isn't personal. Man it's tough to love someone so much and just want to have things be simple, but when various issues have to get in the way of a great thing and muddle everything up. I don't think any kind of sustained relationship is possible with an insecure if someone isn't doing the work on themselvees, and addressing their issues. You would pretty much have to resign yourself to this is the way they are, and they aren't changing and accept it for what it is or leave. Dealing with a lack of emotional availability and cycling can be okay for someone that wants to have a more distant or casual thing, but otherwise it's not going to change until the person wants to change themselves. And even then it's a tough road. |
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Post by dhali on Sept 14, 2019 1:03:07 GMT
“I still get frustrated with the behaviors even though I understand it, and accept they are where they are. But having bad communication makes for a rough time for me. It still hurts being on the receiving end even if you know it isn't personal.”
You teach people how to treat you. Just sayin’.
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Post by dhali on Sept 14, 2019 3:34:39 GMT
“I don't know if I am walking on eggshells. I AM being more aware of how my style may trigger him, but I don't know if that's the same. I think a certain amount of sensitivity is required, no? This is where I am trying to find that balance of being sensitive to him and also being true to myself. “I am treading lightly with him as to not trigger him, while also trying to stay authentic to myself.” Treading lightly as to not trigger. You are walking on eggshells. Oh yes, that’s right the qualifier. Trying to be authentic to yourself. I’m sorry, I really am. None of this is secure behavior from you. No one should put up with this, and you’re rolling out the red carpet, wondering what words you are allowed to use. You can’t even see it. The behavior is supplicative, and self identifies as a low value person. I wouldn’t be surprised if it re-enforced the already low esteem an avoidant has towards their mate. If an ex wants to get back, there better be a good answer to: what’s changed? That answer should include a request/desire for couples therapy |
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Post by stu on Sept 14, 2019 6:04:34 GMT
“I still get frustrated with the behaviors even though I understand it, and accept they are where they are. But having bad communication makes for a rough time for me. It still hurts being on the receiving end even if you know it isn't personal.” You teach people how to treat you. Just sayin’. In the case of something like this your choice is to communicate boundaries, tolerate something , or walk away. I typically communicate boundaries and then if not respected walk away. If they reach out and change behavior at that point I re consider otherwise just have to move on. |
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Post by stu on Sept 14, 2019 6:07:27 GMT
“ But having bad communication makes for a rough time for me. It still hurts being on the receiving end even if you know it isn't personal. Man it's tough to love someone so much and just want to have things be simple, but when various issues have to get in the way of a great thing and muddle everything up.“ I feel ya... it’s so hard and heartbreaking. I think bad communication makes for a tough time for most people. It can’t feel good on their end either. Maybe that’s a part of them running is because they can’t communicate well (because of an early narrative but still). Curious to know if that’s conscious for FAs. I know that I haven’t been communicating well lately, and it’s painful for me. I’m aware of it and working on it, but it’s hard. The FA I was seeing will walk away in the middle of a serious conversation and tune out most the time in them. Or just ignore me for prolonged periods of time when I ask direct and open questions. Stuff like that isn't cool no matter what your attachment issues are. I have to remember not to make excuses for someone just because I know a reason behind the behavior . Because at the end of the day it's still disrespectful and they know that. Maybe there's a shame and other vicious cycle going on for it and I try to have compassion for that and be gentle with things. But also being firm about how to be treated at the same time. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 14, 2019 8:34:33 GMT
I try not to be so judgmental, and just see it as we have areas of incompatibility, and areas of compatibility. We have triggers too; being ghosted and abandoned in multiple ways big and small is triggering. We want our loved ones to be sensitive to that without them saying `oh being sensitive to you is treading on eggshells and inauthentic'.
I give the FA's I've loved some credit for trying to fit in with my needs some/most of the time, until they can't take it any more and run. I've yet to hear one say `oh go to therapy, your feelings are wrong' like we often propose. I don't know what it feels like to be triggered by closeness sometimes, but you can tell its a very strong feeling, strong enough to want to break connection with someone they like, if not love, completely.
My attitude is you either accept the bad with the good, or move onto someone with great communication skills and a capacity for real, consistent intimacy. If you are going with the former, you have to get real good at handling anxiety, and uncertainty. And tolerate a sometimes shallow relationship with them, and get your other needs met elsewhere.
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Post by stu on Sept 14, 2019 11:11:56 GMT
I try not to be so judgmental, and just see it as we have areas of incompatibility, and areas of compatibility. We have triggers too; being ghosted and abandoned in multiple ways big and small is triggering. We want our loved ones to be sensitive to that without them saying `oh being sensitive to you is treading on eggshells and inauthentic'. I give the FA's I've loved some credit for trying to fit in with my needs some/most of the time, until they can't take it any more and run. I've yet to hear one say `oh go to therapy, your feelings are wrong' like we often propose. I don't know what it feels like to be triggered by closeness sometimes, but you can tell its a very strong feeling, strong enough to want to break connection with someone they like, if not love, completely. My attitude is you either accept the bad with the good, or move onto someone with great communication skills and a capacity for real, consistent intimacy. If you are going with the former, you have to get real good at handling anxiety, and uncertainty. And tolerate a sometimes shallow relationship with them, and get your other needs met elsewhere. That's a good perspective, see for me when in the past dealing with different people I typically have seen things in a more black and white way, but situations like this seem to make me understand there is so much grey area, so much that it really hurts my head to think about all of it. For myself those behaviors I couldn't tell if when it happened was a result of not having respect for me, or was just an uncontrollable reflex for them, or a combination of the two. But when i am ghosted after being very close and having great communication. And I reach out more then a couple times saying encouraging and gentle things, and don't get any kind of response it just feels like my well being or feelings aren't really being considered at all. Ghosting someone is damaging, and is only done necessarily when you are trying to escape a person who is abusive. No one deeserves to be ghosted without any reason or explanation , and especially after being very open and close with someone . Never even getting a reason or response. It damages people's ability to keep a stable bond, and have a sense of dependability with others . I've noticed in dealing with different people before and the FA now, that things between me and her have definitely made me become more dismissive myself. And feel more cut off from certain things in myself too. It's like becoming numb to deal with the rollercoaster of behaviors and accompanying emotions and pain that comes with it. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 14, 2019 20:11:43 GMT
That's a good perspective, see for me when in the past dealing with different people I typically have seen things in a more black and white way, but situations like this seem to make me understand there is so much grey area, so much that it really hurts my head to think about all of it. For myself those behaviors I couldn't tell if when it happened was a result of not having respect for me, or was just an uncontrollable reflex for them, or a combination of the two. But when i am ghosted after being very close and having great communication. And I reach out more then a couple times saying encouraging and gentle things, and don't get any kind of response it just feels like my well being or feelings aren't really being considered at all. Ghosting someone is damaging, and is only done necessarily when you are trying to escape a person who is abusive. No one deeserves to be ghosted without any reason or explanation , and especially after being very open and close with someone . Never even getting a reason or response. It damages people's ability to keep a stable bond, and have a sense of dependability with others . I've noticed in dealing with different people before and the FA now, that things between me and her have definitely made me become more dismissive myself. And feel more cut off from certain things in myself too. It's like becoming numb to deal with the rollercoaster of behaviors and accompanying emotions and pain that comes with it. Exactly Stu, and I have been feeling the same way. The ghosting is a real problem for me; the cycle of feelings, the pain of it, the rollercoaster. I feel that sense of dissociation at times too, and like I'm being trained to fear healthy intimacy and communication. It would be a major red flag and deal breaker if having a family was on my radar. I started this relationship after my life partner passed away, and maybe rollercoaster felt better than thinking about who I'd lost, better than being broken like I was. Maybe the way it makes me dissociate was medication for a deeper pain I cannot face. And what do i do now, with the man who has helped me with my grief in such an abstract way, but is incapable of giving me a healthy relationship long term? He just cycled back from the second deactivation, and we're each circling. I am certain we are friends, but I feel I can't be his lover any more. I'm just afraid to say it. Afraid to hurt him, afraid of the finality of it too. |
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Post by nyc718 on Sept 24, 2019 2:32:46 GMT
“I don't know if I am walking on eggshells. I AM being more aware of how my style may trigger him, but I don't know if that's the same. I think a certain amount of sensitivity is required, no? This is where I am trying to find that balance of being sensitive to him and also being true to myself. “I am treading lightly with him as to not trigger him, while also trying to stay authentic to myself.” Treading lightly as to not trigger. You are walking on eggshells. Oh yes, that’s right the qualifier. Trying to be authentic to yourself. I’m sorry, I really am. None of this is secure behavior from you. No one should put up with this, and you’re rolling out the red carpet, wondering what words you are allowed to use. You can’t even see it. The behavior is supplicative, and self identifies as a low value person. I wouldn’t be surprised if it re-enforced the already low esteem an avoidant has towards their mate. If an ex wants to get back, there better be a good answer to: what’s changed? That answer should include a request/desire for couples therapy I just saw this, and part of the reason is because I haven't been here much because things are going well for us! I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment of my situation. Knowing about FA has changed EVERYTHING for me. It has changed the way I think in regards to what his actions mean, and it has helped me understand his past behavior. I am NOT walking on eggshells with him. I realized that he processes things differently than I do, which is what I meant by tread lightly. I am not tiptoeing around him nor am I anxious when we talk and I express myself. But I have changed the way I express myself about some topics, knowing that he may take it the wrong way. I don't see that as any different as when my ex husband realized he had to change his tone with me about certain topics because it would upset me. When you care about someone, these kinds if adjustments aren't hard, in my opinion. What we have that's good is far better than what I would like to be different in our relationship, so that's my focus, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same. No two people are ever going to be perfectly compatible unless we dated ourselves. There will always be compromise, understanding, adjustment, etc. Life isn't perfect, people aren't perfect. I'm also not looking for perfect. I'm looking for someone who makes me happier more than not, and that is what we've always had. I don't know what the future holds, and I am still adjusting even though I know about FA now. But for now we are good, and I'll take it. |
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Post by nyc718 on Sept 24, 2019 2:41:05 GMT
Supplicant behavior is low value behavior. I can’t really blame someone for not cozying up to that. That’s regardless of attachment style. Even a hardcore AP would bail eventually. These’s a fine line between being supportive and being a vessel for displaying whatever they emotions/behavior you divine they are desiring at the moment. You’re referencing being supportive because of your new found knowledge, but you’re still sacrificing who you are, imo. I am on the side of - they can’t have a healthy relationship until they get help and work on it. That will have nothing to do with you. Personally, if someone I’m with is triggered by me showing them my emotions, then we won’t work. Ever. Because I don’t ever want to be alone while I’m with someone. What’s the point? And to be with someone who has one foot out the door at all times (or at least often enough)? Life is way too short for that. I loved a DA. If she wanted back, I’d have a hard time saying no, but it would also be easy. Now if she came back, and was in therapy for it AND wanted to go to couples therapy... ok. But none of that is on the table for me. Nor you. You’re doing ALL the work, and asking how it can succeed. It can only succeed if work is done- something you have no control over. I guess I'm going to have to say that my FA isn't that bad then. I do not feel like am "sacrificing" or otherwise not being true to myself. My FA seems to just need a lot more space than an average person. What we have works for US. I usually only see him on the weekends with not much contact during the week, and honestly, that's fine. I have a pretty mundane day to day, and I also have things to fill my time if I don't end up getting to see him for a weekend if his daughter is over for the weekend. I have gone for two weeks without seeing him sometimes because of his custody schedule, but when we get back together it's great. I kind of feel like we are in a long distance relationship..except we aren't long distance! I think DA is very different from FA. I have definitely dated a DA and it's totally different than my FA guy. All this "work" that I'm doing doesn't feel like work to me. I feel like I adjusted my expectations, yes, but it's not like I gave up so much that I can't be who I am or myself anymore. I am more mindful of how I approach certain topics that are sensitive to him and I give him the space he needs. This to me is not hard. So far, so good. |
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Post by nyc718 on Sept 24, 2019 17:45:09 GMT
nyc718 I think what's important is that it works for you, you don't feel like you aren't being true to yourself or suffering etc. I can totally understand that sometimes in relationships you just have to learn now the person communicates — as people have to learn that with us often. We're all different, and yes, people with attachment issues are different etc, but I get that concept. I was curious, if you don't mind me asking, how did you reconnect? I saw your other posts when you weren't talking earlier this year. Yes, he had responded to a text I sent him. I was feeling bad that he hadn't contacted me, and I knew it was because of miscommunication and misunderstanding. He responded, and not in a good way. I then ended up calling him and we talked, and it was a good talk. He realized he missed my voice and missed me! I told him that he was wrong about his assumptions, and I said it all in a way that wasn't accusatory or in any way offensive. ( I happen to have a soothing voice too, which is good for me. Even he said it was nice to hear my voice and I have a nice voice.) When he responded to my text in a negative way, I felt so much anxiety, and I knew that I had to call to clear things up whether or not he accepted it. I knew that even if he didn't accept my explanation, at least I TRIED. And if things didn't work out, I knew that I tried and I did all I could do on my end. That is how I always operate. I can't make anyone do their part, but I can exhaust everything on my end and walk away in peace if I have to, knowing that I did all i could do. I do wish you the best! Please keep us posted! None of this is easy or is there a one size fits all. We really all are learning as we go. Take care!! xo |
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