cat
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Posts: 17
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Post by cat on Sept 29, 2019 17:22:37 GMT
Seems like their hot and cold behavior could be the root of FA attachment style.
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Post by iz42 on Sept 29, 2019 20:10:57 GMT
From what I understand, FA is usually caused by trauma or abuse. But I’m sure narcissism could play a role.
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Post by serenity on Sept 29, 2019 23:10:30 GMT
^^^^^^^ Same. I've encountered `mild FA' behaviour in adult children of narc parents. I have narc mother and I swing FA when I lose trust in a person due to abuse. Most of the time I attach securely, if a person presents securely to me.
The FA's we often talk about here swing FA because of intimacy and closeness (not just abuse). In my own experiences they have been victims of childhood trauma and physical abuse.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 29, 2019 23:40:41 GMT
Narcissistic parents usually produce either AP children or other narcissists.
This would be because NPD often comes with predictable patterns (even if they are crappy and abusive, you generally know what to expect), so you get the intermittent reinforcement -- sometimes needs are met, sometimes not, the kid tries to figure out the pattern and manage the emotions of the parent. Also, AP means trusting others more than self, and having narcissist parents are always putting others (the narcissist, who is always right) ahead of you.
FA households are scary because there seems to be no rhyme or reason, and there's usually enmeshment or other abuse. FA has no set strategy that works to get needs met. I think it's more likely to come with BPD or bipolar parents, as well as alcoholic / addict parents or physically / sexually abusive family situations. Major emotional enmeshment can also do it. FA is, doesn't trust self or others.
My examples aren't limited to only this, and I'm sure narcissism, if extreme and causing the NPD to go in and out of the kid's life randomly, could lead to FA... especially if the NPD is comorbid with other issues.
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Post by serenity on Sept 30, 2019 0:13:26 GMT
It my own family, attachment style (and the tendency to adopt narc behaviours) depended a lot on personal level of empathy, the `role' assigned to them by the narc parent, and capacity for seeking therapy.
Usually the child dubbed as `the golden child' is more likely to develop narcissism. They will be the one with the most superficially `perfect' traits. But I do know `golden' children who naturally possess a huge dose of empathy, who are not narcissists.
Other roles include `scapegoats' `the parentified child' and `the lost child'. Two of my sisters were `lost children', grew up extremely AP. My role was part scapegoat, part parentified child. Therapists guided me to choose secure partners when I was young, and that resulted in secure attachments for me. My little bro is the `full scapegoat'. He has sought help and healing for most his life and attaches securely, as far as i can tell. His marriage to very nurturing and bright woman has been secure for 20 years. They are both professional healers.
My youngest brother is the full Narc. He possesses very little empathy, was the golden child because of looks, is mean and treats women like garbage. (ie. DA on steroids)
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Post by dhali on Sept 30, 2019 0:32:09 GMT
Narcissistic parents usually produce either AP children or other narcissists. This would be because NPD often comes with predictable patterns (even if they are crappy and abusive, you generally know what to expect), so you get the intermittent reinforcement -- sometimes needs are met, sometimes not, the kid tries to figure out the pattern and manage the emotions of the parent. Also, AP means trusting others more than self, and having narcissist parents are always putting others (the narcissist, who is always right) ahead of you. FA households are scary because there seems to be no rhyme or reason, and there's usually enmeshment or other abuse. FA has no set strategy that works to get needs met. I think it's more likely to come with BPD or bipolar parents, as well as alcoholic / addict parents or physically / sexually abusive family situations. Major emotional enmeshment can also do it. FA is, doesn't trust self or others. My examples aren't limited to only this, and I'm sure narcissism, if extreme and causing the NPD to go in and out of the kid's life randomly, could lead to FA... especially if the NPD is comorbid with other issues. If this is true, that's interesting. Is there a source?
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Post by alexandra on Sept 30, 2019 13:40:40 GMT
dhali, not specifically. I've read so so much, I wouldn't be able to find which research this was from at this point :/
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Post by iz42 on Oct 1, 2019 1:54:26 GMT
Does anyone think the sudden death of a parent could constitute a trauma that might create an FA attachment style?
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cat
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Posts: 17
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Post by cat on Oct 1, 2019 2:37:29 GMT
I lost my dad at 2. Maybe it's the cause or maybe just a contribution. Let's think about it this way. You are securely attached to your parents. Health problems suddenly arise and your father dies. You love someone who disappears and will never be back. You crave for your father's affection as you already experienced it but he's gone. Anxiety kicks in. Maybe it's not THE CAUSE, but I think it plays a major role. Relationships with peers at school may also reinforce your attachment disorder. Think about people who are bullied at 12, they may be secure but the constant exposition to verbal abuse by peers may affect your relationship with others in some way, usually by increasing your anxiety or your avoidance.
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Post by iz42 on Oct 1, 2019 3:46:45 GMT
Sorry to hear about your dad That must have been really hard. I think you're right about peers as well. The focus in attachment theory generally tends to be on parents but there are other people in our lives that we all attach to, or hope to attach to.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 1, 2019 12:31:51 GMT
The sudden death of a parent (or any close family member, such as a sibling), especially before you've got the emotional tools to process it, is absolutely a major emotional trauma.
And while attachment styles are usually already set before you're 12 years old (though they can shift), peer abuse doesn't help -- especially if you've got an insecure attachment to start. My FA ex was unfortunately heavily bullied in school for reasons that had nothing to do with him, and that absolutely didn't help. It just provided him with concrete examples that reinforced that he couldn't trust anyone. Then, he grew up to be really attractive, and suddenly peer strangers switched to being really nice to him. Which made him even more distrustful. Again, not the source of his FA, but strongly reinforced it.
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 9, 2019 6:01:20 GMT
catI am FA and I had a parent who had narcissistic personality disorder. My sister is FA too. Some might recall that I've mentioned another sister on these boards who is DA, but she was not raised with us. One of my FA friend had a parent who might have been a narcissist, we aren't sure. From what I've read, children of narcissists are likely to turn out with some kind of insecure attachment type, but it's not always FA. I read an article that said FAs often had a narcissistic parent (not surprising as narcissists are typically abusive, and FAs were often abused growing up) and that FAs were likely to end up dating narcissists as well. So basically I think that FAs were often raised by narcissists, but that doesn't mean that most children of narcissists turn out FA.
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Post by anne12 on Oct 9, 2019 7:05:37 GMT
A lot of different things can cause some desorganised attatchment style. But again it is on a spectrum.
Some examples that can give you some desorganised attatchment style:
Mother and / or father or possibly siblings or other close family members have been overwhelming, painful, scary or mother and father's relationship has been. What has happened, has not made any sense to the child at all. The parents have signaled: "Come here and stay away!" Or have switched between extreme conditions without regard to the child's signals. It happens, for example, if the adults are toxicated. For children it is very scary with a alcoholic parent!
Parents may have put the child in situations, where the child had to chose, regardless of what it chose - would feel wrong. For example, one could choose between taking care of her mother, making her happy while ignoring herself and her well-being. Or another example: That mother threatened suicide, or went away and maybe gone for several hours. Or a third example: to choose between mother and father and similar bad situations! Or there has been an abuse in the family, either something you've been exposed to, or something you've witnessed.
The child may suffer exposure to:
Loud voices Explosive behavior Emotional abuse Physical abuse Sexual abuse
Fights between parents can be done very quietly, the mood is still recorded by the children
As an adult, love is therefore scary, while you need it. It shows up in the instinktive level of the brain/nerveussystem. It´s trauma. This is a level that lies deeper than both feelings and thoughts.
Even parents who are heavily stressed can cause some desorganised attatchment style
The parents themselves may be afraid, just generating “emergency room energy” from their own unresolved trauma in their past. They may not actually be doing something scary like yelling or hitting or being abusive, but they might also have those behaviors, so you have to look at what was the situation; in either case you get a strong overcoupling, a strong tangling-up of the attachment system trying to attach, and at the very same time, the survival system locking in, trying to get to safety and get away. So it creates a lot of internal physical, psychological, and emotional confusion, which then gets transferred into adult relationships; and because so much of it is pre-verbal, sub-psychological and unconscious, you might attain a certain level of intimacy with your partner, and then – without having any clue why – just hit this terror, hit this disorganization and feel this strong need to get away. It’s really hard on adult relationships, because you or your partner do not really know why it’s happening. It was so deeply patterned in your internal relationship template before awareness was available to make sense of it – a conditioned, “reflexive” relationship pattern wrecking havoc years later, uninvited, into your intimate dyadic relationship.
Emotionally difficult situations in childhood such as bullying, drama ect.
Fights between parents can be done very quietly, the mood is still recorded by the children
There are other situations that can give trauma/push you into desorganized attatchment style (operations, bullying, accident, bad relationsships, a death early in life ect)
What happens to you expecially in these periods in your life can be important:
Important critical periods in life:
0-2 years old, teenager, when you move from your parents, your first love/partner with whom you have lived with, loosing important relationships later in life (parents/grandparents who died, loss of job, loosing people/friends/partners who were important ect)
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Post by serenity on Oct 9, 2019 7:15:28 GMT
Some mental health issues too. My first FA boyfriend has schizoid PD, which I'd never encountered before. Its a trauma usually caused by a life threatening event in the womb. Attachment is so very slow, and with us has required a really long platonic friendship post breakup for the attachment to become stable. Honestly, loveliest person ever, Just can't deal with romantic connection at all.
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Post by annieb on Nov 26, 2019 18:01:17 GMT
Seems like their hot and cold behavior could be the root of FA attachment style. yes, both my parents exhibited various degrees of narcissism and abuse towards me, my sister and each other.
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