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Post by camper78 on Oct 21, 2019 1:45:30 GMT
It's been a while since I've posted here but I'm hoping to get a little feedback/advice from some of the forum sages I know are still around ( ocarina, juniper if you're by any chance lurking, alexandra, faithopelove, goldilocks, anne12). Of course, others are welcome to comment too.  Does anyone have any experience being a strong FA or DA and then suddenly getting flipped AP by another FA/DA? I've been in in a 7 month relationship with someone I think is DA and it has turned me inside out. I've never been on the other side of the attachment spectrum like this before and it is totally throwing me for a loop. I'm blown away at the total body stress reactions I have when my partner pulls away, undermines trust, creates distance or uncertainty. We've talked about lots of these things and how the pendulum swings are so painful for me, and she says it's all tied to insecurity and trust issues etc. that have their roots way outside our relationship. I don't have a lot of hope that our relationship is going to endure the tension - we don't communicate well enough to get there, so I'm not posting with the intention of trying to win back something that was never freely given. I also know that healing from attachment wounds is long-term work and has to start with the self. I'm just wondering if there's any FA/DAs out there that have had the brutal experience of being flipped AP, and how did you get through it? Any advice is appreciated - this is the WORST. ~camper78 |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 21, 2019 3:19:38 GMT
Hi camper78 I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm FA and I've been pulled badly anxious in a few relationships. That is what led me to learn about attachment theory, and I even assumed I was AP at first. Sometimes I can be/feel avoidant in what I believe must be a DA way, which doesn't feel that bad, it feels more safe and in control. Sometimes I actually have trouble telling if I am feeling secure or DA-like at times, since they both feel pretty safe to me. FA feelings for me are much more mixed, a blend of anxiety and avoidance, or a rollercoaster of both alternating, or a specific type of avoidance that can feel very stressful, especially if I'm trying to fight it. Sometimes I have trouble telling which of my feelings/behaviors come from anxiety and which from avoidance. My obviously avoidant feelings typically seem easier to get over, at least these days, since I realized I was FA. Sometimes I get triggered very AP and that is the worst feeling. "Brutal" is a good way to describe it. I have so much compassion for APs because it's such a horrible feeling I wouldn't wish on anyone. Do you want to share a bit about your experiences with how avoidance versus anxiety feel? Can you describe how FA feels for you? It sounds like maybe it is different for you from how it feels for me, since AP feelings were previously so foreign for you. As to how to get through it, that is the million dollar question. It's the main reason I am on these boards. I think I post more about my AP-like feelings than my avoidant ones, because they usually hurt more and I need to get them out of my head and feel I need more external help/advice. Maybe it was quicker/easier for me to learn the skills to cope with avoidant deactivating feelings. AP is hard because it desperately seeks external soothing, whereas avoidance can be soothed by the self. When I have been flipped severely AP and it lasted for long periods of time in the past, I guess what helped me "get through it" was not having any contact with the person who it was directed at. Allowing myself to really feel my feelings and move through them, rather than trying to fight them or look to the person who triggered them to soothe them. Look inside to see what those feelings are teaching me. But that's usually been in situations where either I got dumped or things were very on and off and not a real committed relationship. One of the situations was where I ended it, but I ended it because my most basic relationship needs were not being met, not because I wanted to. It's different if you are still in a relationship with someone that might be salvageable, especially one with enough communication that you have actually been able to talk about this dynamic. In that case, what I've been doing with my most recent relationship was trying to practice consistently telling my partner my feelings and needs in a healthy, vulnerable, gentle, loving way and give him room to give me reassurance or meet those needs (or to tell me if he couldn't) in his own way. Where it blew up badly was with something where I didn't do that, I didn't know how to or was scared to, so I tried to bottle this particular thing up, and it was causing me distress and spilled out anyway. And he was doing the same thing, not communicating about it. I know a lot of advice people give for AP is to go off and soothe yourself and not put it on your partner, but I think there is something to be said for sharing what is going on with you with your partner in a healthy way. Not demanding they soothe you, but allowing them to help if they are willing, and learning how to identify your emotions and how to articulate them, and giving yourself permission to say them. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 21, 2019 5:45:08 GMT
Welcome back, camper78 . I'm sorry you're going through this, because it feels horrible, but it's definitely not uncommon for FA to feel flipped anxious by a partner more avoidant than they are. I think happyidiot has some good things to say above. What I want to add is about how it may help for you to sit with the triggers and dig down into them more when you're alone and feeling anxious. The AP-triggered overwhelmed nervous system feeling is usually related to fear of abandonment while the avoidant-triggered shut down nervous system tends to be related to the fear of engulfment. I once read this pretty interesting perspective that the triggered anxious side was a conscious fear of abandonment and a subconscious fear of engulfment, and that the avoidant was a conscious fear of engulfment and a subconscious fear of abandonment. That seemed to make sense to me, opposite sides of the same coin. Anyway, it helped me to understand what all my underlying concerns really were, because I do think every time I ever got triggered like that in my life was all due to a fear of abandonment whether I was cognizant of it or not. And that my nervous system and emotional response was probably an overreaction because even if the person left I'd be fine (this wasn't berating myself about it, it was just the beginning of accepting I had to let the triggered state pass and would survive it, and what feelings could I actually uncover with it, and how could I provide myself with enough assurance to fill the need I was fearing my partner wouldn't fill). That was something I worked with that helped manage the triggering a little faster in the short-term than a lot of the actually healing the insecure attachment style stuff, which took a lot longer. It also helped me to remind myself not to mistake feeling overwhelmed with anxiety for powerful feelings of love. When I was younger, I'd confuse this a lot and think it was a form of deep attraction, and that was not a healthy or accurate perspective. But while it doesn't mean you care any less about your partner, it's going to feel more like (love) addiction which will create more distance with your partner (who gets objectified as a result of needing to soothe your own anxiety), and you want to make sure your partner stays a real person and doesn't become a projection. So... keeping the anxiety and both your identities in perspective. I think you're more aware of your side of the problem at least and where it's really stemming from, which is a big help in dealing with it. Lastly, are you holding the proper boundaries for yourself? Not suggesting you put up walls and keep distance to avoid vulnerability, but are you doing any people-pleasing to keep the peace? That will make the anxious feelings worse, and they may feel better if you are being authentic and stating honest needs (even if you partner can't meet them). |
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Post by 8675309 on Oct 21, 2019 17:24:11 GMT
I can’t help but I can SO relate to feeling out of your element right now. Feeling so out of it led me here. I don’t have anxiety issues so, yeah, it’s a bad feeling.
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Post by anne12 on Oct 21, 2019 20:56:59 GMT
You can maybe notise every time it happens and you are triggered and you start to feel the anxiaty, and then as soon as you notise, you can do some of the selfregulating exercises from the secure forum ? (Getting into the precent moment so that you can see things more clearly)
You can write down what it is that is triggering you - what happens ?
A da cold say that it is just you and you should just put yourself together, because feeling anxiaty can be difficult for Them to understand because they have closed of from feeling their own anxiaty
Of course there could be something else wrong with the relationship - but regulating could be the first thing to do so that you can use the cognotive part of your brain.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 23:11:45 GMT
I had anxiety when I dated a man I believe to be a malignant narcissist, and it was so strange. It was horrible but lasted a very short time because I knew it was toxic and I terminated contact with him. The anxiety was from a rapid shift that I believe in hindsight was intentional, a manipulation. It was really crazy, up-down-up-down and cruelty was involved. So I think the anxiety was not an insecure trigger so much as a warning that this guy was emotionally dangerous and toxic.
I'm DA and am in SE/Attachment therapy. Since you're mentioning body stress I would highly recommend somatic work. I personally think a therapist is best for this but there are also exercises anne has posted that you could try. I don't experience anxiety in the body, with relationships. I deactivate instead.
I'm curious- does the anxiety cause you to cling or to avoid? I'm sure if I felt that way for any length of time I would just leave to get it to stop and to get my bearings and stability again. Is that an option? I don't think horribly triggering situations are healthy.
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Post by camper78 on Oct 22, 2019 4:13:33 GMT
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've re-read the posts numerous times and have found a few things to be immediately helpful, so thank you. I think you're right happyidiot , this is going to make me more empathic to the AP experience, and I am grateful for that. Because I am a long-time FA, avoidance for me is very familiar and can even be comforting. It's the absence of the person that's triggering me that brings relief.. the anxious response is opposite. The absence (or more accurately, the story I tell myself about the absence) can be panic-inducing almost. I have done a lot of work on self-awareness and working with FA adaptations over the last few years, but this is so new and it feels like I don't have the tools to manage the AP side. Self-awareness and communication is so essential. While it looks like my current partner and I are not able to stay in connection with each other, I still have hope that I will find someone in the future that feels the same way and is able to be truthful and kind. alexandra , this was SO helpful: remind[ing] myself not to mistake feeling overwhelmed with anxiety for powerful feelings of love. When I was younger, I'd confuse this a lot and think it was a form of deep attraction, and that was not a healthy or accurate perspective. But while it doesn't mean you care any less about your partner, it's going to feel more like (love) addiction which will create more distance with your partner (who gets objectified as a result of needing to soothe your own anxiety), and you want to make sure your partner stays a real person and doesn't become a projection.I need to put some time into examining this. The emotional hook does not feel healthy to me and I know it.. it's way out of proportion for the relative amount of hurt that was part of our relationship. Like @inmourning has said 'horribly triggering situations are not healthy'. I'm conflating something here. I'm grateful for the wise minds on this forum. Thank you all. ~camper78 |
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Post by annieb on Jan 13, 2020 15:41:11 GMT
It's been a while since I've posted here but I'm hoping to get a little feedback/advice from some of the forum sages I know are still around ( ocarina, juniper if you're by any chance lurking, alexandra, faithopelove, goldilocks, anne12). Of course, others are welcome to comment too. Does anyone have any experience being a strong FA or DA and then suddenly getting flipped AP by another FA/DA? I've been in in a 7 month relationship with someone I think is DA and it has turned me inside out. I've never been on the other side of the attachment spectrum like this before and it is totally throwing me for a loop. I'm blown away at the total body stress reactions I have when my partner pulls away, undermines trust, creates distance or uncertainty. We've talked about lots of these things and how the pendulum swings are so painful for me, and she says it's all tied to insecurity and trust issues etc. that have their roots way outside our relationship. I don't have a lot of hope that our relationship is going to endure the tension - we don't communicate well enough to get there, so I'm not posting with the intention of trying to win back something that was never freely given. I also know that healing from attachment wounds is long-term work and has to start with the self. I'm just wondering if there's any FA/DAs out there that have had the brutal experience of being flipped AP, and how did you get through it? Any advice is appreciated - this is the WORST. ~camper78 The sages once informed me that as a FA you get the worst of DA and AP, so you end up taking all the pain. I’m sorry this happened to you and I hope you can end the relationship and come out the other end. These relationships with DAs are not sustainable and are painful and damaging to us. We do not have the strength to endure their shenanigans and we end up spectacularly hurt. Here is to bouncing, healing and hopefully finding a secure partner. |
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