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Post by kittygirl on Oct 23, 2019 17:07:40 GMT
Hello to all. I am a first time poster (but a long time lurker) to this forum. Like many others have said-this forum has been INVALUABLE to me. I am creating this thread because I am pretty sure I have read everything on this forum (or close to it) and I haven't seen much about jealousy (maybe a few things) and I thought it might be nice to have a thread so people can chime in as I have no idea if this is an attachment issue or just a personality issue of my partner.
Some background-I am secure (but quite independent). Have really only dated secure men up until now (and looking up information to understand my current partner was what brought me here in the first place). My boyfriend ("boyfriend"-he "is too scared to be in a relationship") is FA (diagnosed by a professional). He exhibits allllll (and I mean all) of the FA traits (which I think can sometimes be comforting to him because he can see that and realize he isn't "going crazy" or an "alien"), some of them to an extreme. Frankly, I have no real issues with our relationship as I would have dipped long ago if I was unhappy. I understand that his behavior comes from a place of deep pain, which has helped me to be patient and understanding and not to take things personally.
Everything we have experienced so far has been par for the course with respect to the FA dynamics so I won't belabor that. I was sort of settled in to how things were...was fine with a lack of commitment, the push/pull stuff didn't really bother me too much (he's never fully deactivated but sometimes retreats but always comes back) but then a few days ago he hits me with a bombshell (of sorts). He tells me he went on a date that day, that he's on tinder and wants to date other people (this is mostly just a bombshell because we have talked about this in the past and he said he DIDN'T want to see anyone else even though I was open to it). Ok so he tells me this to which I ask then if he wants things between us to be more "casual"? He reallllly balks at that and then hits me with this (and you can't make this stuff up) "I know its unfair and unreasonable, but I want to see other people but I don't want you to. I'm extremely jealous.". Come again?? I am obviously in no way taking that shit-pile of a dating condition, but I was very curious what other SOs of FAs or FAs themselves have dealt with in terms of jealously. THis all came out for me very suddenly (I'm not a jealous person at all and he knows this about me) but in general I was wondering if this is an attachment issue or a personality issue. He told me he's afraid I'll "find someone better" which seems to fit with his rock bottom self esteem, but I also feel like at times I may trigger his AP stuff and so perhaps that's what's happening? Anyway do you guys have experience with this "extreme jealousy" (his words) stuff in your various experiences with attachment issues?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 17:27:05 GMT
One way that vulnerable narcissists present the symptoms of entitlement and "special uniqueness" is in the arena of emotional specialness. "I have special emotional needs and am entitled to special treatment because of them, and only truly special partners can understand and accommodate me.". Vulnerable narcissism is frequently missed on a diagnosis because the DSM lists more grandiose traits, according to a Dr. that I heard on a youtube video.
I don't have experience with a partner like this but my thought was... entitled and lack of empathy and uniquely special taking comfort in the FA diagnosis and perhaps using that as a way to self serve. My thought would be - personality disorder beyond FA.
Sorry if not helpful.
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Post by kittygirl on Oct 23, 2019 17:46:32 GMT
Oh wow just reading about this now. I didn't even know this was a thing!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 17:50:17 GMT
Oh wow just reading about this now. I didn't even know this was a thing! Yeah, I have run into it before. *shudder* youtu.be/tEd6x0l3b6U |
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Post by kittygirl on Oct 23, 2019 18:04:58 GMT
This has blown me away. Thank you so much for the vid and these insights. I have no doubt that he's an FA, but I think you are spot on that more is going on here than just attachment issues. Thank you thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 19:25:00 GMT
This has blown me away. Thank you so much for the vid and these insights. I have no doubt that he's an FA, but I think you are spot on that more is going on here than just attachment issues. Thank you thank you. You're welcome. It's a shadowy landscape, all of it. Take good care of you first and the rest comes mucho easier. |
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hola
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Post by hola on Oct 23, 2019 20:01:51 GMT
Hello to all. I am a first time poster (but a long time lurker) to this forum. Like many others have said-this forum has been INVALUABLE to me. I am creating this thread because I am pretty sure I have read everything on this forum (or close to it) and I haven't seen much about jealousy (maybe a few things) and I thought it might be nice to have a thread so people can chime in as I have no idea if this is an attachment issue or just a personality issue of my partner. Some background-I am secure (but quite independent). Have really only dated secure men up until now (and looking up information to understand my current partner was what brought me here in the first place). My boyfriend ("boyfriend"-he "is too scared to be in a relationship") is FA (diagnosed by a professional). He exhibits allllll (and I mean all) of the FA traits (which I think can sometimes be comforting to him because he can see that and realize he isn't "going crazy" or an "alien"), some of them to an extreme. Frankly, I have no real issues with our relationship as I would have dipped long ago if I was unhappy. I understand that his behavior comes from a place of deep pain, which has helped me to be patient and understanding and not to take things personally. Everything we have experienced so far has been par for the course with respect to the FA dynamics so I won't belabor that. I was sort of settled in to how things were...was fine with a lack of commitment, the push/pull stuff didn't really bother me too much (he's never fully deactivated but sometimes retreats but always comes back) but then a few days ago he hits me with a bombshell (of sorts). He tells me he went on a date that day, that he's on tinder and wants to date other people (this is mostly just a bombshell because we have talked about this in the past and he said he DIDN'T want to see anyone else even though I was open to it). Ok so he tells me this to which I ask then if he wants things between us to be more "casual"? He reallllly balks at that and then hits me with this (and you can't make this stuff up) "I know its unfair and unreasonable, but I want to see other people but I don't want you to. I'm extremely jealous.". Come again?? I am obviously in no way taking that shit-pile of a dating condition, but I was very curious what other SOs of FAs or FAs themselves have dealt with in terms of jealously. THis all came out for me very suddenly (I'm not a jealous person at all and he knows this about me) but in general I was wondering if this is an attachment issue or a personality issue. He told me he's afraid I'll "find someone better" which seems to fit with his rock bottom self esteem, but I also feel like at times I may trigger his AP stuff and so perhaps that's what's happening? Anyway do you guys have experience with this "extreme jealousy" (his words) stuff in your various experiences with attachment issues? My Ex FA showed signs of extreme jealousy too. And then after a time, I found out he also had that same mentality. He mentioned it like in a casual conversation on how there could be a possibility of him "seeing" other women but threw a fit when I said "then I can go out with single friends". I didn't even mention going on a date with someone else. Take note that if he's starting to pull this on you, triangulation is next. Because that came next for me. Since I'm not at all jealous, it backfired on him and he got really upset that I didn't take the bait. I realized since he is extremely jealous, he wanted me reacting the same. Walk away girl, just walk away. He'll try to push your buttons any way he can to get a reaction from you. It'll only get worse. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 23, 2019 20:19:16 GMT
Oh geez. kittygirl I don't have much in terms of suggestions to add on about what is going on on top of the FA than has already been brought up, but I wanted to share how I've seen this manifest in an FA-without-PD way. I have had FA guys come up with wacky scenarios about what kind of relationship might work better for them that's completely unbalanced and unfair and is addressing their needs while minimizing mine. I think that part is common enough, especially during deactivation. However, I've never had one go out and do the thing first without talking to me about it then after the fact coming up with an entitled situation and just expecting me to accept it. It's been, I don't know what I want and I don't know what's wrong but this isn't working for me so maybe we can try this possibly ideal situation I'm thinking about that I don't really expect you to go for because I know it's unfair and you deserve better... but if you'll go for it as a last-ditch attempt [subtext: so I can keep avoiding confronting my own issues], we can give it a try? But it's basically so outlandish a suggestion that they know I'm going to say no (so maybe it's just a sabotage effort so I'll end things instead), or if I said yes I'm certain it's not even what they actually want and they'd feel guilty while losing respect for me for accepting crumbs. Again, they haven't thrust me into the situation first by already taking action and changing the terms or felt entitled to treat me like crap... even though they kind of are by then. Whatever his issues are, the call out to me is he'd rather be entitled, sketchy, and make you uncomfortable than work on his own stuff. My FAs were unaware and fought awareness (the denial ran deep). Yours is aware and is choosing not to take enough responsibility for his side of it. That's the foundational reason I'd run from him, no matter what his other issues are. Nothing will get better, and it sure sounds like there's capacity to get worse (ie abusive, especially if he's got a PD). |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 23, 2019 20:24:02 GMT
Oh, and yeah, jealousy can be an anxious-leaning attachment thing, but it's still the person's responsibility to deal with their own emotions and insecurities (assuming you're not cheating / they have no real reason to be jealous) and not try to control you instead. Everything about this scenario you've posted is unhealthy on his end.
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Post by dhali on Oct 23, 2019 21:22:01 GMT
Jealousy- I’ve always handled this super wrong. I’ve told, pretty much every woman I’ve been with, when it reared it’s ugly head, to basically deal with their shit. My last gf, who I believe was FA, had a flare up once (it was the beginning of the end) and our first tiff.. I told her basically, what does your jealousy have to do with me? So don’t dump that shit in my lap. That’s where she said maybe she wasn’t ready for a relationship... I took that to be melodramatic, and called her on it. I think, in retrospect, she was thinking out loud.
Lest you think I’m an anxious attachment style, I’m not. I do think my approach to jealousy has been wrong however (I see it as a form of control, and fuck that). There’s an emotional reason why it’s coming up, and that’s the opportunity to have a vulnerably connecting conversation. I’ve been fucking it up all this time. Jealousy, right or wrong, is an emotional bid. I’ve been spiking the ball at the net.
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Post by iz42 on Oct 24, 2019 2:06:51 GMT
This all sounds quite familiar to me. It's hurtful behavior - I'm sorry. My ex and I talked about being non-monogamous before he decided he wanted to date me more seriously. I was open to the idea but he seemed to forget about it as time went on. About a year later we discussed moving in together but then he decided he didn't want to do it because he wanted to have the option to date other women and bring them back to his place. He never actually did that (or I don't think he did), but me dating other men would have been very difficult and likely impossible for him. It seems that distancing via other people is a pretty effective way to keep a partner from getting too close, but then there is a lot of insecurity about the partner doing the same thing. I wouldn't think this necessarily spells personality disorder but it's hard to say.
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Post by serenity on Oct 24, 2019 2:17:41 GMT
This is so Lol. ``I want to see other people but you can't''. It'd be an absolutely crushing triangulation nightmare. Run!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 2:53:03 GMT
Someone like this is at the center of their own little universe. It's absolutely absurd, to me. Triangulation is cruel and manipulative, and the additional pity play for their emotional sensitivity around jealousy? Exploiting your empathy where they have none (or attempting to). To me, the point isn't even jealousy. Fidelity is a thing, trust, trustworthiness, being valued enough to hold a unique place in someone's life and heart instead of being on their carousel of narcissistic supply, is a thing. The real thing.
All this other nonsense-
Just, no.
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 24, 2019 14:50:48 GMT
kittygirl The issue here is not whether extreme jealousy is common with FAs, because your boyfriend is not actually displaying extreme or unusual jealousy by not wanting you to date other people, that’s pretty normal, the issue is the utter hypocrisy and inconsiderateness of him going on a date with someone else. The thing that is “extreme” about his jealousy is that it’s extremely unfair. Unfairness in a relationship is not inherently bad in all cases. But one-sides monogamy is never good unless it is a situation where both partners consented to it, are happy with it and feel like their opinions and comfort are valued and respected. Maybe he calls his jealousy “extreme” because he knows it’s ludicrous to ask you not to see other people when he just did. An alternative to the theory that he went on a date with someone else as a narcissistic manipulation tactic is the possibility that he actually didn’t think you’d care. This is something I see with some FAs (not that this is exclusive to FAs by any means), low awareness and empathy for how their actions affect others. For it to be a manipulation tactic that would mean that he would have known you would care and was trying to make you jealous. I don’t think that there is anywhere near enough info to conclude that he is a narcissist, if by narcissist we mean person with narcissistic personality disorder as opposed to a diluted modern vernacular meaning where it’s become a synonym for “asshole,” where now anyone who is being an asshole and doesn’t fit the traditional description of a narcissist must just be a “vulnerable” or “covert” narcissist. I’m not saying he’s not a narcissist, just that I wouldn’t leap to that conclusion. I am FA, have had FA partners and friends (some diagnosed, some tested, some suspected), and was raised (if you want to call it that) by a diagnosed narcissist. There is a difference between someone being clueless as to how their actions affect you and not caring how they affect you. The clueless person, when you communicate directly and in a way they can understand, will show they care, consider your feelings and may modify their behavior or compromise, while the uncaring person will continue to not care and just say too bad if you don't like it. Have you communicated to him that you don't want him to see other people?
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Post by kittygirl on Oct 24, 2019 16:03:59 GMT
Everyone is making such great points! He is definitely using the "dating other people" thing as some sort of distancing strategy because he chose to wait to tell me about it until I was gone on vacation with friends and then called me up, wasted to tell me and start an argument.
Which actually brings up a question for you guys-do you ever think your FA partners (and maybe this is true for other attachment styles as well I just don't have experience with them) try to manufacture arguments to make things "more exciting" in the relationship? I definitely think that is partly what is happening here. He wants to feel something and arguments are a staple for his past relationships so he falls back on that
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