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Post by happyidiot on Oct 26, 2019 2:42:08 GMT
I'm unsure how we could determine the difference between a test and distancing strategy? Believing that bad behaviour is a `test' could be holding onto false hope that we are important to them. When they may in fact be distancing and they don't care at all. I think differentiating them is a skill that can be developed, for example I've seen professionals quickly say that a particular behavior, say, someone threatening a breakup during an argument, is about the person actually being petrified of losing their partner and testing to see if they will take them up on the offer, as opposed to actually wanting to break up. Probably the best thing to do is to work on relating and responding as securely as possible (for your own good, not because that's all it takes to get an insecure partner to become secure, as alexandra pointed out) rather than trying to analyze whether someone is testing versus distancing. I'm not even sure those are mutually exclusive. Maybe in a committed relationship one could consider testing behaviors or FA behaviors something to work with.. but people accepting all this terrible relationship behavior in dating only to get ghosted or dumped seems very dysfunctional to me. Yeah, for example, a good couples therapist will help people explore approaches that address testing and protest behaviors for what they are and increase secure attachment in the relationship. For people who are not in a committed relationship, that's a lot to take on and it's certainly possible for some people to see everything through rose colored glasses, even to the point of becoming a stalker, "Oh he is only ignoring me as a test to see if I'll abandon him."
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2019 2:45:03 GMT
Also, it's like individuals cease to be individuals when attachment theory is applied. What I mean is this: people have all different kinds of characters. Honest, moral, dishonest, immoral, optimistic, pessimistic, altruistic, selfish, etc etc. But- paint them with an FA brush and now, they are assumed to have the best intentions but are just struggling. Paint them with a DA brush, and they are actually just struggling, not mean. Paint them with an AP brush, they are so so generous and compassionate, they really mean the best. What gets lost here is, some people are really selfish and abusive, and also happen to have the tag of FA, DA, AP. Some people are altruistic and generous, and also happen to have the tag FA, Da, Ap. Some people lie, a lot. Could be FA,DA, AP. It's crazy to assume the best intentions in someone behaving in a really negative, hurtful way. It may be true, it may not be- but attachment theory misapplied gives everyone a pass for shitty behavior it seems. He or she really could be a mean, dishonest person... This is also very true. My previous post is referring to attachment clashing only, but someone may also just be a jerk.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2019 2:52:49 GMT
It's like FA literature is used to create fantasy bonds that don't really exist in the way it would actually take to progress a relationship. I don't think it's the literature itself, I think it's the hopeful ( / longing, as mrob pointed out) intent in reading it. Most of what I've read is damning, basically saying FAs are the most damaged and need therapy before trying to date anyone, and don't even try. While there's some truth to that, I think it's overly judgmental the other way and REALLY nor helpful for anyone FA looking for information. It's a vilifying perspective, and some of these posts above are reading to me as generalized FA-bashing because people are hurting due to deactivating ex-partners. But anyway, I once spent time weighing if improving my own availability would help fix things with my FA ex. I found this board just after I tipped over into secure. What cemented things for me was reading all start-to-finish relationship descriptions with suspected FA partners. Every single thread on this board, seriously! Not one told a different story. Not one partner came here looking for answers to work on their relationships with an aware and willing FA partner. And for all those twisting for their unaware partners, the details were different but the patterns all played out the same. Every. Time. Triggering at first, but I forced myself to keep reading and internalizing. Because, again, what I believe the literature tends to get wrong is the idea that the easiest way to earn secure is find a secure partner -- which can lead to hope for those hunting for hopeful information (ie if I'm more secure, my misguided ex partner will change and do what I hope for). The way to earn secure is the insecure individual has to want to heal and do the accompanying work. That's it. Much easier to do through therapy and having secure examples, but just having a secure person around who wants to help in itself isn't going to do it. I've dated FAs, I'm friends with FAs, I have no personal examples of anything different than anyone else here. All that changed was my own healing, and while I'd hoped previous partners might catch up or be inspired by that, they've all remained exactly who they are years later, habitually trying to keep afloat while not taking responsibility for making their own changes. Accepting that this plays out the same every time if both people aren't working towards a change, with so many examples to back that up, was the most important aspect of utilizing this board for me. It helped shift my perspective to one of compassion with much healthier boundaries, which was still a process that took several months even after "earning secure." I don't think of maladaptive behavior as testing behavior nor do I think it shows that someone cares or not. If the person is unavailable, they're not going to feel safe staying by coming up with a list of challenges for you that will magically make them want to be in the relationship if you pass by solving their formula. Instead, I think of it as old defense mechanisms that no longer work in adulthood. Then it's just a matter of accepting the way things are and deciding if that's the way you want your life to be. You can stick around with good boundaries if you're okay with it and still believe you're fully compatible or walk away. I love what happyidiot , who is FA and is possibly facing the end of a relationship with someone insecure-maybe-also-FA, said she's learned about incompatibility from the recent stress in her relationship. That's constructive, taking responsibility, and not blaming. Post is on the general board: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2234/incompatibilityI wrote "FA literature IS USED." Was referring to the use of the literature (by people here) not the literature itself.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2019 3:25:54 GMT
I wrote "FA literature IS USED." Was referring to the use of the literature (by people here) not the literature itself. Sure, it doesn't change my perspective on it. And in case mine needs clarifying too, I didn't mean anyone was posting anything damning here, I meant the literature itself I've seen tends to be very biased and vilifying to FAs (which is why I have a hard time knowing where to direct FAs for reading sources because it's debilitating, not motivating to read more, for someone already insecure to read someone "professionally" thinks they're horrible and unfit for connection). But there is blaming in the posts in this thread as well.
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 26, 2019 3:53:46 GMT
Sure, it doesn't change my perspective on it. And in case mine needs clarifying too, I didn't mean anyone was posting anything damning here, I meant the literature itself I've seen tends to be very biased and vilifying to FAs (which is why I have a hard time knowing where to direct FAs for reading sources because it's debilitating, not motivating to read more, for someone already insecure to read someone "professionally" thinks they're horrible and unfit for connection). But there is blaming in the posts in this thread as well. This is a huge problem. I have no idea where to direct friends or people I date who might be FA, even when some are straight-up asking me, because I think so many of the resources online would be unhelpful and only describe a very stereotypical and extreme type of fearful attachment, which can also leave them convinced they aren't FA, like I initially thought. And I don't really want to send them to this forum because I like it being my place to share without having people I know IRL reading what I write. It also makes me a bit hesitant to tell people I date that I am FA, because if they Google it they will read "Run for the hills!"
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Post by mrob on Oct 26, 2019 4:28:59 GMT
There’s so much to say in this thread, and I’ll come back to it. But, I need to say this.
it is absolutely amazing, staggering. Unaware people act in type. If you know what red flags to look for, the actions will follow. The timing and severity may be different, but I just can’t believe it. It’s all lovely to talk about individuals etc, but the bones of insecure attachment follow the same, worn out patterns.
Jeb’s book drove me to a suicide attempt. It was that bleak. But the truth is the truth, and I think on some level most people do recognise the truth when it is served up. Human spirit is an amazing thing. I’m still here.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 26, 2019 14:17:01 GMT
There’s so much to say in this thread, and I’ll come back to it. But, I need to say this. it is absolutely amazing, staggering. Unaware people act in type. If you know what red flags to look for, the actions will follow. The timing and severity may be different, but I just can’t believe it. It’s all lovely to talk about individuals etc, but the bones of insecure attachment follow the same, worn out patterns. Jeb’s book drove me to a suicide attempt. It was that bleak. But the truth is the truth, and I think on some level most people do recognise the truth when it is served up. Human spirit is an amazing thing. I’m still here. You should be proud of yourself for recognizing and being aware, that is always the first step toward healing! So since you've read the book, would you share some of the mindsets you have changed or want to change? I started my journey of healing many, many years ago. One of the first things I recognized was that I hated myself. And I was finally aware of how ridiculous that was, because there was no reason to hate myself; I was a good person, I was a good friend, I had a lot to offer to the people around me. That self hate caused me to self sabotage on so many levels. Learning to love myself was eye opening and liberating, but it was a journey. What has changed for you since you read the book and how would you feel best supported by the people around you who know you?
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