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Post by bohemianraspberry on Oct 23, 2019 21:33:31 GMT
"If you want to stay in the relationship, you should be aware that you may also have to endure some “testing behaviors.” The person with the fearful style may engage in some negative or challenging behaviors to see if you are going to reject or hurt them. After all, that is what their experience has taught them to expect. If you take these behaviors for what they are, however, and don’t take them too personally—I know; easier said than done—the person is likely to start effectively regulating their emotions and become much more comfortable with intimacy in the relationship." www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-freedom-change/201505/come-here-go-away-the-dynamics-fearful-attachment Have any of you experienced this? And what kind of "tests" does the FA put you through? |
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Post by dhali on Oct 23, 2019 21:51:03 GMT
-Getting overly upset about a trivial thing.
-starting fights for not real reason
-escalating a fight to near breakup talk, maybe even testing the breakup threat reaction waters
-just overall being difficult.
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Post by serenity on Oct 23, 2019 22:13:22 GMT
They can also be distancing behaviours ... not to test the connection, but to undermine it.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Oct 24, 2019 23:46:45 GMT
"If you want to stay in the relationship, you should be aware that you may also have to endure some “testing behaviors.” The person with the fearful style may engage in some negative or challenging behaviors to see if you are going to reject or hurt them. After all, that is what their experience has taught them to expect. If you take these behaviors for what they are, however, and don’t take them too personally—I know; easier said than done—the person is likely to start effectively regulating their emotions and become much more comfortable with intimacy in the relationship." www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-freedom-change/201505/come-here-go-away-the-dynamics-fearful-attachment Have any of you experienced this? And what kind of "tests" does the FA put you through? * Belittling, trying to undermine your goals/aspirations (probably mimicking the language that was bestowed upon them! Hence low self esteem). I was starting a side business and she said "You'll never do that!" etc etc * Negative self talk/Low self esteem (undermining who they are themselves, warning constantly you can do better, "don't know why you're with me, you can do better than me!" etc) * Distancing and cancelling dates that were setup * Distancing and no communication for weeks (in avoidant mode when things are close) * Hypervigilant "Walking on eggshells" language. An example would be myself joking about some alcoholic shots we had together one evening, had a blast, and she said "Your making out i'm an alcoholic" (and she borderline was unbeknowest to myself at the time, she drank 4-5 nights a week, a bottle of wine a night basically, so she said. I know her family was on her case in relation to this) among other items. Was particularly evident in cycling mode in the avoidant mode, not in the initial anxious attachment style phase. During the honeymoon phase there were always elements of the low self esteem/negative self talk, and tidbit subversive statements. Be careful not to overlook those due to the actual "honeymoon phase", they are very pertinent longterm, and there will be hints to actually what is going on in the background and the causes for all this. |
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jules
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Post by jules on Oct 25, 2019 1:30:15 GMT
"If you want to stay in the relationship, you should be aware that you may also have to endure some “testing behaviors.” The person with the fearful style may engage in some negative or challenging behaviors to see if you are going to reject or hurt them. After all, that is what their experience has taught them to expect. If you take these behaviors for what they are, however, and don’t take them too personally—I know; easier said than done—the person is likely to start effectively regulating their emotions and become much more comfortable with intimacy in the relationship." www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-freedom-change/201505/come-here-go-away-the-dynamics-fearful-attachment Have any of you experienced this? And what kind of "tests" does the FA put you through? * Belittling, trying to undermine your goals/aspirations (probably mimicking the language that was bestowed upon them! Hence low self esteem). I was starting a side business and she said "You'll never do that!" etc etc * Negative self talk/Low self esteem (undermining who they are themselves, warning constantly you can do better, "don't know why you're with me, you can do better than me!" etc) * Distancing and cancelling dates that were setup * Distancing and no communication for weeks (in avoidant mode when things are close) * Hypervigilant "Walking on eggshells" language. An example would be myself joking about some alcoholic shots we had together one evening, had a blast, and she said "Your making out i'm an alcoholic" (and she borderline was unbeknowest to myself at the time, she drank 4-5 nights a week, a bottle of wine a night basically, so she said. I know her family was on her case in relation to this) among other items. Was particularly evident in cycling mode in the avoidant mode, not in the initial anxious attachment style phase. During the honeymoon phase there were always elements of the low self esteem/negative self talk, and tidbit subversive statements. Be careful not to overlook those due to the actual "honeymoon phase", they are very pertinent longterm, and there will be hints to actually what is going on in the background and the causes for all this. I agree. Mine had absolute shite self talk. Low self esteem. And a couple of times when I joking said "what's wrong euth you?" While laughing at sonething he said he point blank told me "many things" Should have listened. |
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Post by stu on Oct 25, 2019 9:07:05 GMT
They can also be distancing behaviours ... not to test the connection, but to undermine it. Yes this has been my exact recent experience after not thinking my Fa ex was the type to do that. |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 25, 2019 15:10:00 GMT
"If you want to stay in the relationship, you should be aware that you may also have to endure some “testing behaviors.” The person with the fearful style may engage in some negative or challenging behaviors to see if you are going to reject or hurt them. After all, that is what their experience has taught them to expect. If you take these behaviors for what they are, however, and don’t take them too personally—I know; easier said than done—the person is likely to start effectively regulating their emotions and become much more comfortable with intimacy in the relationship." www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-freedom-change/201505/come-here-go-away-the-dynamics-fearful-attachment Have any of you experienced this? And what kind of "tests" does the FA put you through? * Belittling, trying to undermine your goals/aspirations (probably mimicking the language that was bestowed upon them! Hence low self esteem). I was starting a side business and she said "You'll never do that!" etc etc * Negative self talk/Low self esteem (undermining who they are themselves, warning constantly you can do better, "don't know why you're with me, you can do better than me!" etc) * Distancing and cancelling dates that were setup * Distancing and no communication for weeks (in avoidant mode when things are close) * Hypervigilant "Walking on eggshells" language. An example would be myself joking about some alcoholic shots we had together one evening, had a blast, and she said "Your making out i'm an alcoholic" (and she borderline was unbeknowest to myself at the time, she drank 4-5 nights a week, a bottle of wine a night basically, so she said. I know her family was on her case in relation to this) among other items. Was particularly evident in cycling mode in the avoidant mode, not in the initial anxious attachment style phase. During the honeymoon phase there were always elements of the low self esteem/negative self talk, and tidbit subversive statements. Be careful not to overlook those due to the actual "honeymoon phase", they are very pertinent longterm, and there will be hints to actually what is going on in the background and the causes for all this. These aren’t tests though. |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Oct 25, 2019 18:14:16 GMT
These aren’t tests though. Agree. I think of these as more of instinctive, subconcious FA defence mechanisms. Tests would be, in my opinion, more consious acts, to "prove" FA's hypothesises about romantic partners. Like: "I am sure, if I do X, my partner will leave me/get angry/crazy/clingy... , because this is what I am used to. So better prove it now than until it is too late." |
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Post by serenity on Oct 25, 2019 20:28:10 GMT
I'm unsure how we could determine the difference between a test and distancing strategy? Believing that bad behaviour is a `test' could be holding onto false hope that we are important to them. When they may in fact be distancing and they don't care at all.
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Post by hannah99 on Oct 25, 2019 20:45:00 GMT
I do this
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Oct 25, 2019 21:53:09 GMT
Do you mean that you test your partner? Is it something you plan to do, or is it just an impulse? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2019 1:37:35 GMT
I'm unsure how we could determine the difference between a test and distancing strategy? Believing that bad behaviour is a `test' could be holding onto false hope that we are important to them. When they may in fact be distancing and they don't care at all. bingo I think it's very common for people experiencing this behavior to over analyze it and come up with optimistic ideas. Maybe in a committed relationship one could consider testing behaviors or FA behaviors something to work with.. but people accepting all this terrible relationship behavior in dating only to get ghosted or dumped seems very dysfunctional to me. On the part of the partner. I mean, you're going un eyes wide open and saying "Yep, I got this. We're unique." It's like FA literature is used to create fantasy bonds that don't really exist in the way it would actually take to progress a relationship. Just an observer opinion. I see people seeking understanding and expressing optimism over and over here and then boom. It's over. No contact, and either grieve and move on or lather rinse repeat. And it's the same for dismissive behaviors. Don't think just because you think you understand it, you can work with it. Unavailable is unavailable. |
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Post by mrob on Oct 26, 2019 1:55:05 GMT
The misinterpretation on longing as love is tied up in this and deeply problematic. Absolutely, @inmourning, unavailable is unavailable. I’ve had a string of different experiences dating (I’m no Don Juan, by the way) where everything here has been cemented, at personal cost to others and myself. I’d go so far to say that it is impossible to have a mutually fulfilling relationship while unavailable - anxious or avoidant.
Sounds obvious, but a gong for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2019 2:15:50 GMT
The misinterpretation on longing as love is tied up in this and deeply problematic. Absolutely, @inmourning, unavailable is unavailable. I’ve had a string of different experiences dating (I’m no Don Juan, by the way) where everything here has been cemented, at personal cost to others and myself. I’d go so far to say that it is impossible to have a mutually fulfilling relationship while unavailable - anxious or avoidant. Sounds obvious, but a gong for me. I left out the part about anxious = unavailable because it doesn't go over well here. Because of the addiction and longing , people think they are emotionally available. Not so. Also, it's like individuals cease to be individuals when attachment theory is applied. What I mean is this: people have all different kinds of characters. Honest, moral, dishonest, immoral, optimistic, pessimistic, altruistic, selfish, etc etc. But- paint them with an FA brush and now, they are assumed to have the best intentions but are just struggling. Paint them with a DA brush, and they are actually just struggling, not mean. Paint them with an AP brush, they are so so generous and compassionate, they really mean the best. What gets lost here is, some people are really selfish and abusive, and also happen to have the tag of FA, DA, AP. Some people are altruistic and generous, and also happen to have the tag FA, Da, Ap. Some people lie, a lot. Could be FA,DA, AP. It's crazy to assume the best intentions in someone behaving in a really negative, hurtful way. It may be true, it may not be- but attachment theory misapplied gives everyone a pass for shitty behavior it seems. He or she really could be a mean, dishonest person, that you've idealized as a love struck, scared avoidant. Longing is blind. He or she really could be a controlling, mean spirited person who is love addicted to avoidants. Who knows? Attachment is blind. My point is, expect healthy behavior and be able to deliver it, if you want a healthy relationship. And what about "It takes two to make it work" ?!? We all know that. WE KNOW IT. But how many aware partners convince themselves they can make it work with an unaware avoidant, and lash out at anyone who suggests otherwise. Then, when it's all said and done, they make it clear that the failure is on the part of the unaware avoidant, because, well, as we all know... "It takes two to make it work." |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2019 2:38:48 GMT
It's like FA literature is used to create fantasy bonds that don't really exist in the way it would actually take to progress a relationship. I don't think it's the literature itself, I think it's the hopeful ( / longing, as mrob pointed out) intent in reading it. Most of what I've read is damning, basically saying FAs are the most damaged and need therapy before trying to date anyone, and don't even try. While there's some truth to that, I think it's overly judgmental the other way and REALLY nor helpful for anyone FA looking for information. It's a vilifying perspective, and some of these posts above are reading to me as generalized FA-bashing because people are hurting due to deactivating ex-partners. But anyway, I once spent time weighing if improving my own availability would help fix things with my FA ex. I found this board just after I tipped over into secure. What cemented things for me was reading all start-to-finish relationship descriptions with suspected FA partners. Every single thread on this board, seriously! Not one told a different story. Not one partner came here looking for answers to work on their relationships with an aware and willing FA partner. And for all those twisting for their unaware partners, the details were different but the patterns all played out the same. Every. Time. Triggering at first, but I forced myself to keep reading and internalizing. Because, again, what I believe the literature tends to get wrong is the idea that the easiest way to earn secure is find a secure partner -- which can lead to hope for those hunting for hopeful information (ie if I'm more secure, my misguided ex partner will change and do what I hope for). The way to earn secure is the insecure individual has to want to heal and do the accompanying work. That's it. Much easier to do through therapy and having secure examples, but just having a secure person around who wants to help in itself isn't going to do it. I've dated FAs, I'm friends with FAs, I have no personal examples of anything different than anyone else here. All that changed was my own healing, and while I'd hoped previous partners might catch up or be inspired by that, they've all remained exactly who they are years later, habitually trying to keep afloat while not taking responsibility for making their own changes. Accepting that this plays out the same every time if both people aren't working towards a change, with so many examples to back that up, was the most important aspect of utilizing this board for me. It helped shift my perspective to one of compassion with much healthier boundaries, which was still a process that took several months even after "earning secure." I don't think of maladaptive behavior as testing behavior nor do I think it shows that someone cares or not. If the person is unavailable, they're not going to feel safe staying by coming up with a list of challenges for you that will magically make them want to be in the relationship if you pass by solving their formula. Instead, I think of it as old defense mechanisms that no longer work in adulthood. Then it's just a matter of accepting the way things are and deciding if that's the way you want your life to be. You can stick around with good boundaries if you're okay with it and still believe you're fully compatible or walk away. I love what happyidiot, who is FA and is possibly facing the end of a relationship with someone insecure-maybe-also-FA, said she's learned about incompatibility from the recent stress in her relationship. That's constructive, taking responsibility, and not blaming. Post is on the general board: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2234/incompatibility |
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