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Post by alexandra on Oct 31, 2019 22:29:06 GMT
kibbins, some mental illnesses get worse with age, such a schizophrenia and bipolar. Especially without treatment. Not saying he has those, just that there are a bunch of serious conditions that get way worse in your late 20s and beyond.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 31, 2019 22:46:58 GMT
There are %'s somewhere of attachment styles available as you age. It literally flips from 50-55% secure initially from 18-early 20s to 60% avoidant after mid 30s for obvious reasons. The lies and BS would work on an AP who hasn't bothered to work on themselves I would reckon moreso, a secure would quickly put 2 and 2 together in the space of 4-8 weeks via questioning, maybe even sooner. Certainly a person who talks about their exes to a stranger so openly and scathingly is a "red flag" and I would avoid them instantly. Right, I've heard that too, about the percentages.. definitely makes sense. I guess I'm moreso curious if avoidants tend to become more avoidant over time, though in this instance, there seems to be a lot more at play. Just strange his first relationships seemed normal with cohabitation, etc, they're still friendly and she seems to respect him still.. to like, now, where he can barely stand to be in the same room as someone for over 24 hrs, and more toxic stuff - Yes, my DA was seemingly non-avoidant with his ex wife too. They co-habituated, took trips etc but he says the reason he’s so hurt (avoidant) is because she cheated on him and left him. Even though he lived with her and married her- things can appear normal on the surface....he told me I was the first person he ever gave his heart to and he and his ex just went through the motions. It seems he had avoidant tendencies but the ex made it much worse by leaving the marriage. That was 10 years ago. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 31, 2019 22:48:24 GMT
Personality disorders like NPD get worse too.
Across the board, I think people who reinvent history, lie to themselves, cut off from people who challenge their mental distortions, tend to get worse with age as well. They don't learn, everyone else is the problem, not them..they just dig their graves deeper.
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jules
Full Member
Posts: 142
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Post by jules on Nov 1, 2019 0:39:57 GMT
Sounds delightful! Real charmer.
Aaanddd another bullet dodged! Yayyy!!
I'm sorry you are hurting, this guy sounds like a very sick pup.
Take gentle care of yourself!
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Post by Dualcitizen on Nov 1, 2019 0:44:47 GMT
There are %'s somewhere of attachment styles available as you age. It literally flips from 50-55% secure initially from 18-early 20s to 60% avoidant after mid 30s for obvious reasons. The lies and BS would work on an AP who hasn't bothered to work on themselves I would reckon moreso, a secure would quickly put 2 and 2 together in the space of 4-8 weeks via questioning, maybe even sooner. Certainly a person who talks about their exes to a stranger so openly and scathingly is a "red flag" and I would avoid them instantly. @dualcitizen - Correct, and I’m in my mid 40’s so avoidant numbers are 80% in my age bracket!! I’m pretty good at spotting them quickly now- I feel like if the good ones at this age are taken then I’ll find a great secure widower in 20 years. Lol 😢 hehe fair enough. Well good luck with it all hope you find someone that has some emotional intelligence and loves you for you at the end of the day! |
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Post by happyidiot on Nov 1, 2019 0:58:37 GMT
Also, on a somewhat related note, do untreated avoidants tend to get worse??? I feel like he has become more and more avoidant over time, it's actually crazy to think that he lived with his ex he moved to LA with years back, he could barely spend time with me, yet told me I was easier to spend time with than his last ex. Some can for sure, I've seen it happen, but statistically in general people get more secure as they age. And people can get more secure without "treatment." Here's a chart: www.theatlas.com/charts/BySAG6N_zI'm so sorry you had to witness that conversation between your ex and your friend. Does it provide any solace that the things he said were so outrageous that it's clear he is not mentally well and is either experiencing a break from reality or is a compulsive liar? |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Nov 1, 2019 1:01:34 GMT
There are %'s somewhere of attachment styles available as you age. It literally flips from 50-55% secure initially from 18-early 20s to 60% avoidant after mid 30s for obvious reasons. The lies and BS would work on an AP who hasn't bothered to work on themselves I would reckon moreso, a secure would quickly put 2 and 2 together in the space of 4-8 weeks via questioning, maybe even sooner. Certainly a person who talks about their exes to a stranger so openly and scathingly is a "red flag" and I would avoid them instantly. Right, I've heard that too, about the percentages.. definitely makes sense. I guess I'm moreso curious if avoidants tend to become more avoidant over time, though in this instance, there seems to be a lot more at play. Just strange his first relationships seemed normal with cohabitation, etc, they're still friendly and she seems to respect him still.. to like, now, where he can barely stand to be in the same room as someone for over 24 hrs, and more toxic stuff Interesting you should talk about the cohabitation. I'm talking with my ex. (and friendly again) the F-A and reason I'm in these forums. And she was married and has 2 kids. I'm not sure in her case if she may have been either A-P initially and has become F-A after her divorce or has been F-A since day dot (definite abusive father mentioned verbally and physically, and mother has been called "overemotional like her") which is interesting. |
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Post by persephone on Nov 1, 2019 2:11:50 GMT
As hurtful as it is to hear that from your ex... after a long time has passed, you will see that Bumble interaction as a blessing in disguise. Most of us here will never have the opportunity to see just how delusional our exes are.
He may be Avoidant, but like others have pointed out, he’s definitely a whole lot more than that. He doesn’t have issues, he’s got issues stacked on top of issues.
Don’t think about your relationship with him as time wasted. Think of him as an essential learning experience, so you know how to NOT waste time on the next unsuitable guy.
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Post by 8675309 on Nov 1, 2019 3:31:47 GMT
Don’t think about your relationship with him as time wasted. Think of him as an essential learning experience, so you know how to NOT waste time on the next unsuitable guy. This. People come into our life for a reason. To learn lessons.
Ive had to come to grips with this even as a secure, just sayin'.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 1, 2019 10:17:02 GMT
Also, on a somewhat related note, do untreated avoidants tend to get worse??? I feel like he has become more and more avoidant over time, it's actually crazy to think that he lived with his ex he moved to LA with years back, he could barely spend time with me, yet told me I was easier to spend time with than his last ex. Some can for sure, I've seen it happen, but statistically in general people get more secure as they age. And people can get more secure without "treatment." Here's a chart: www.theatlas.com/charts/BySAG6N_zI'm so sorry you had to witness that conversation between your ex and your friend. Does it provide any solace that the things he said were so outrageous that it's clear he is not mentally well and is either experiencing a break from reality or is a compulsive liar? I would need more data then just the chart you provided to show that people become more secure. I would question whether they become more secure in their relationships or more secure with their circumstances....also, iwould need to understand more about how they determined the % of anxiety versus avoidance...was it via self evaluation or through a group of individuals being tracked throughout the years. I do see people become more comfortable with who they are...but that does not mean they are more “secure” in relationships. Interesting....but not sufficient for me. |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 1, 2019 17:06:42 GMT
Some can for sure, I've seen it happen, but statistically in general people get more secure as they age. And people can get more secure without "treatment." Here's a chart: www.theatlas.com/charts/BySAG6N_zI'm so sorry you had to witness that conversation between your ex and your friend. Does it provide any solace that the things he said were so outrageous that it's clear he is not mentally well and is either experiencing a break from reality or is a compulsive liar? I would need more data then just the chart you provided to show that people become more secure. I would question whether they become more secure in their relationships or more secure with their circumstances....also, iwould need to understand more about how they determined the % of anxiety versus avoidance...was it via self evaluation or through a group of individuals being tracked throughout the years. I do see people become more comfortable with who they are...but that does not mean they are more “secure” in relationships. Interesting....but not sufficient for me. What I notice about that chart is it starts with average numbers, which would be securely attached on the 4 square axis of attachment styles (3.3 anxiety and 2.75 avoidant), and drops them slightly over time. So agree with tnr9 that we can't see who was in that group to begin with and which segments were actually dropping and the magnitude of it. If everyone of all attachment types drops the same magnitude over time, but let's say an AP was 4.8 anxiety and 2.75 avoidant, they'd still end up with high enough anxiety (around 4.4) that they'd continue to be AP after 20 years. So, the chart just needs more context for us to know what it's showing. |
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Post by happyidiot on Nov 5, 2019 3:43:28 GMT
Some can for sure, I've seen it happen, but statistically in general people get more secure as they age. And people can get more secure without "treatment." Here's a chart: www.theatlas.com/charts/BySAG6N_zI'm so sorry you had to witness that conversation between your ex and your friend. Does it provide any solace that the things he said were so outrageous that it's clear he is not mentally well and is either experiencing a break from reality or is a compulsive liar? I would need more data then just the chart you provided to show that people become more secure. I would question whether they become more secure in their relationships or more secure with their circumstances....also, iwould need to understand more about how they determined the % of anxiety versus avoidance...was it via self evaluation or through a group of individuals being tracked throughout the years. I do see people become more comfortable with who they are...but that does not mean they are more “secure” in relationships. Interesting....but not sufficient for me. tnr9 I'm not sure what you mean by more secure with their circumstances? I think it's just based on the attachment style test results of a ton of people of different ages, showing that older people are more likely to test secure than younger people. Security was found to positively correlate with age in multiple studies. qz.com/1206940/attachment-style-changes-with-age/ |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 5, 2019 4:01:48 GMT
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Post by persephone on Nov 5, 2019 6:01:56 GMT
tnr9 alexandra tnr9 I'm not sure what you mean by more secure with their circumstances? I think it's just based on the attachment style test results of a ton of people of different ages, showing that older people are more likely to test secure than younger people. Security was found to positively correlate with age in multiple studies. qz.com/1206940/attachment-style-changes-with-age/ I read that just now and while it does appear that people get more secure as they age, the article says: “Chopik argues that we can largely attribute these changes simply to people staying in serious relationships. As we age, we tend to more deeply invest in the roles of partnership—and that changes our interpersonal behaviors and personalities. The emotional bonds developed by maintaining a family make an individual feel more secure.”This essentially means that as we get older while in a relationship, we are more Secure. BUT, Jeb’s “Avoidant” book has a graph (based on limited data) that shows as we get older, we find more single people tend to be Avoidants. It’s simply because unaware Avoidants tend to break up and move on more easily. The other thing that makes me wonder is, if an Avoidant becomes more Secure, do they deactivate less? |
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Post by happyidiot on Nov 5, 2019 6:55:11 GMT
I read that just now and while it does appear that people get more secure as they age, the article says:“Chopik argues that we can largely attribute these changes simply to people staying in serious relationships. As we age, we tend to more deeply invest in the roles of partnership—and that changes our interpersonal behaviors and personalities. The emotional bonds developed by maintaining a family make an individual feel more secure." This essentially means that as we get older while in a relationship, we are more Secure. BUT, Jeb’s “Avoidant” book has a graph (based on limited data) that shows as we get older, we find more single people tend to be Avoidants. It’s simply because unaware Avoidants tend to break up and move on more easily. The other thing that makes me wonder is, if an Avoidant becomes more Secure, do they deactivate less? That's not because there are more avoidants in existence, or that the avoidants have become more avoidant, it's because secures are less and less likely to be single the older they get, so the dating pool of single people contains a higher percentage of avoidants, since in general their relationships tend to be shorter-lived or some don't have serious monogamous relationships at all. Most of the secures are removed from the pool over time. Whereas it would be common for people in general to be single at, say, 20, regardless of their attachment type. Yes, with more security comes less deactivation. |
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