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Post by kibbins on Oct 31, 2019 18:56:24 GMT
Ok well after nearly 2 years of a complete push-pull situation with my FA, around 5-6 weeks ago we called it off and haven't spoken since. Although this has happened before and we came back together. This felt much more final. This also came after him sexually deactivating from me for nearly a year and rejecting almost all bids for closeness to the point where I deactivated back and basically treated him like a friend to protect myself from being hurt.
A couple nights ago one of my friends was on dating app Bumble while over at my apartment, and suddenly, his profile comes up. I had been waiting for this to happen as a final signal for me to move on. Throughout our 2 years of dating he only met 1-2 of my friends, refused to engage socially usually. So he didn't know my friend who saw him on Bumble. She swiped right and they matched. He struck up a conversation.
As I'm watching this go on I was pretty much dumbfounded- this is what he said.
BTW, as some minor back story, he used to talk a lot of sh*t on his ex he dated before me. How wrong she was for him, how he refused to go to brunch with her/meet her family, refused to marry her, how she didn't understand his humor like I did, things about her family, her being bad in bed, the list goes on. Yet he seemed very concerned about how he came off to her.. Anyway, yes, like almost everything else about our relationship, this was a red flag.
So he matches with my friend on Bumble, and she tells him she just got out of something long distance. Suddenly he starts UNLOADING about his dating history, about me, etc.
He said: he never loved me, it was something casual that went too far, but that he loved his ex (the one he talked bad about to me), and also loved his ex from HS and thought about her, our relationship wasn't right so he didn't want to give that part of himself "emotional vulnerability" to me since he didn't want that type of connection with me, that sex was "intense at first then became complicated", that it was like "having sex with a friend", better with other exes, that I was too vanilla, the list goes on.
Not to stand up for myself here but the sex life I had with him was "not-vanilla" to the point where we discussed bringing in a 3rd regularly (he backed out) and other things I won't go into here, made a couple sex tapes, and he regularly talked about how sex with his ex was awful and she was very boring and prude (I know her.. and this seems to probably be true, not that theres anything wrong with that) and that he openly told her he couldn't see her as a sexual being because he felt like her caretaker. So it's just confusing. So anyway that was sort of the start of some distorted things he went into.
This is where things get extra strange.. He said a bunch of things that were just straight up lies.. My friend asked, "why did you date her for 2 years (me) if you didn't love her? His response- well we just had fun together, liked to travel a lot, went to Cambodia, Eastern Europe, my parents place in Mexico... (WE NEVER TRAVELED ANYWHERE.. never went anywhere.. literally ate takeout in my apartment.. his parents also don't own a place in Mexico lol).
He also said he was an only child and always wanted a big family, 3 kids. Again who knows if this is true in reality- he always very openly told me from the beginning he didn't want children at all, that he and his ex before me had that in common, that he also told his parents that.
However, he also came out to my friend about being molested, and told her he felt safer talking to a stranger than someone he knew.
Lastly he said things didn't work out with his ex before me because she needed to move to the South (false, he destroyed the relationship just like with ours), and with me, "nothing in particular, just didn't see her that way, but that we talk and are friends" (we don't talk).
He also tried to meet up with my friend for a drink. I think I'm leaving some stuff out but most of it was disturbing, she called him out a bit at the end with some entitled stuff he was saying and he unmatched her so the conversation deleted.
Oh and lastly he also mentioned that it didn't work out with me because we were "different attachment styles" - he found out about attachment theory thru me, and of course he didn't know what my type was, because the relationship was always all about him. He said "I'm an avoidant so I need to date people who don't need a lot to feel secure". Lol, I literally never leaned on him for security because I knew he couldn't provide any. So I guess hes just settled in his "I'm an avoidant so people need to deal with that" way of thinking now.
So anyway, not sure what to make of most of this, I'm sure some of it is true, but it is all pretty strange especially the flat-out lies ha. My friend said possibly sexually-motivated but he has such weirdness around sex like it took him 4 months to be able to first have sex with me, then around 6-8 months to deactivate.
Also, on a somewhat related note, do untreated avoidants tend to get worse??? I feel like he has become more and more avoidant over time, it's actually crazy to think that he lived with his ex he moved to LA with years back, he could barely spend time with me, yet told me I was easier to spend time with than his last ex. But he still would need to run away in the mornings. I just think hes becoming more and more unavailable as time goes on. Who knows. So.. there's that.
Other thoughts- does this sound like sociopathic behavior on his part as opposed to just avoidant? He used to have a "joke" about being an "eccentric sociopath, but like, a fun one".
Other thought- I truly never thought he had a phantom ex (or two) because he made fun of his exes so much. And truly, knowing his dry, self-deprecating, misanthropic personality, and him saying things like "can you even IMAGINE me with Martha?!?! she didn't get ANY of my jokes" who is a very Pinterest-y, "lets go take pictures of our sides of carrots from the farmers market" to his "dark place", I took his word, and now, really, looks like I was probably wrong.
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Post by dhali on Oct 31, 2019 20:03:39 GMT
I’m glad you’re rid of him. That’s toxicity at a high level. With anyone.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 31, 2019 20:04:54 GMT
Ok well after nearly 2 years of a complete push-pull situation with my FA, around 5-6 weeks ago we called it off and haven't spoken since. Although this has happened before and we came back together. This felt much more final. This also came after him sexually deactivating from me for nearly a year and rejecting almost all bids for closeness to the point where I deactivated back and basically treated him like a friend to protect myself from being hurt. A couple nights ago one of my friends was on dating app Bumble while over at my apartment, and suddenly, his profile comes up. I had been waiting for this to happen as a final signal for me to move on. Throughout our 2 years of dating he only met 1-2 of my friends, refused to engage socially usually. So he didn't know my friend who saw him on Bumble. She swiped right and they matched. He struck up a conversation. As I'm watching this go on I was pretty much dumbfounded- this is what he said. BTW, as some minor back story, he used to talk a lot of sh*t on his ex he dated before me. How wrong she was for him, how he refused to go to brunch with her/meet her family, refused to marry her, how she didn't understand his humor like I did, things about her family, her being bad in bed, the list goes on. Yet he seemed very concerned about how he came off to her.. Anyway, yes, like almost everything else about our relationship, this was a red flag. So he matches with my friend on Bumble, and she tells him she just got out of something long distance. Suddenly he starts UNLOADING about his dating history, about me, etc. He said: he never loved me, it was something casual that went too far, but that he loved his ex (the one he talked bad about to me), and also loved his ex from HS and thought about her, our relationship wasn't right so he didn't want to give that part of himself "emotional vulnerability" to me since he didn't want that type of connection with me, that sex was "intense at first then became complicated", that it was like "having sex with a friend", better with other exes, that I was too vanilla, the list goes on. Not to stand up for myself here but the sex life I had with him was "not-vanilla" to the point where we discussed bringing in a 3rd regularly (he backed out) and other things I won't go into here, made a couple sex tapes, and he regularly talked about how sex with his ex was awful and she was very boring and prude (I know her.. and this seems to probably be true, not that theres anything wrong with that) and that he openly told her he couldn't see her as a sexual being because he felt like her caretaker. So it's just confusing. So anyway that was sort of the start of some distorted things he went into. This is where things get extra strange.. He said a bunch of things that were just straight up lies.. My friend asked, "why did you date her for 2 years (me) if you didn't love her? His response- well we just had fun together, liked to travel a lot, went to Cambodia, Eastern Europe, my parents place in Mexico... (WE NEVER TRAVELED ANYWHERE.. never went anywhere.. literally ate takeout in my apartment.. his parents also don't own a place in Mexico lol). He also said he was an only child and always wanted a big family, 3 kids. Again who knows if this is true in reality- he always very openly told me from the beginning he didn't want children at all, that he and his ex before me had that in common, that he also told his parents that. However, he also came out to my friend about being molested, and told her he felt safer talking to a stranger than someone he knew. Lastly he said things didn't work out with his ex before me because she needed to move to the South (false, he destroyed the relationship just like with ours), and with me, "nothing in particular, just didn't see her that way, but that we talk and are friends" (we don't talk). He also tried to meet up with my friend for a drink. I think I'm leaving some stuff out but most of it was disturbing, she called him out a bit at the end with some entitled stuff he was saying and he unmatched her so the conversation deleted. Oh and lastly he also mentioned that it didn't work out with me because we were "different attachment styles" - he found out about attachment theory thru me, and of course he didn't know what my type was, because the relationship was always all about him. He said "I'm an avoidant so I need to date people who don't need a lot to feel secure". Lol, I literally never leaned on him for security because I knew he couldn't provide any. So I guess hes just settled in his "I'm an avoidant so people need to deal with that" way of thinking now. So anyway, not sure what to make of most of this, I'm sure some of it is true, but it is all pretty strange especially the flat-out lies ha. My friend said possibly sexually-motivated but he has such weirdness around sex like it took him 4 months to be able to first have sex with me, then around 6-8 months to deactivate. Also, on a somewhat related note, do untreated avoidants tend to get worse??? I feel like he has become more and more avoidant over time, it's actually crazy to think that he lived with his ex he moved to LA with years back, he could barely spend time with me, yet told me I was easier to spend time with than his last ex. But he still would need to run away in the mornings. I just think hes becoming more and more unavailable as time goes on. Who knows. So.. there's that. Other thoughts- does this sound like sociopathic behavior on his part as opposed to just avoidant? He used to have a "joke" about being an "eccentric sociopath, but like, a fun one". Other thought- I truly never thought he had a phantom ex (or two) because he made fun of his exes so much. And truly, knowing his dry, self-deprecating, misanthropic personality, and him saying things like "can you even IMAGINE me with Martha?!?! she didn't get ANY of my jokes" who is a very Pinterest-y, "lets go take pictures of our sides of carrots from the farmers market" to his "dark place", I took his word, and now, really, looks like I was probably wrong. Wow, sometimes we just really never know a person. I'm petty in that I personally might shoot a text and say, yeah, I heard you met up with my friend, and I heard the things you told her about me. And leave it at that. I can be shitty like that :-p |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 31, 2019 20:14:58 GMT
This is pretty terrible. He has no boundaries or social sense to say ALL that to a stranger on a dating app he's never spoken to or met before. He's obsessed with all his exes, which is a horrible sign, and even though he made fun of them to you and idealized them to your friend while vilifying you... no one healthy would bring them up so often.
Stay so far away. This isn't just FA. He bends reality, lies, and gaslights. Sure, he's also still deactivated from you so you are painted black to him, but this isn't normal. When my FA exes shut down and deactivate from someone, they rarely talk about them and probably aren't thinking about it (for example, when my long term ex broke up with me the first time, he didn't tell anyone and I kept running into our mutual friends I'd met through him and they'd ask about him and I'd have to tell them we'd actually broken up even a month later). Not every FA is the same, but this sounds like something more.
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Post by serenity on Oct 31, 2019 20:18:27 GMT
LOL that he used your conversation about attachment theory to make out like he is psychologically aware when he hits on other women.
I'm so sorry Kibbins, you must feel like you wasted 2 years after hearing all that. That guy has Zero accountability, self honesty, or respect for women who have loved him.
Are you okay?
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 31, 2019 20:30:52 GMT
Oh, wow...sorry!!! He truly has no boundaries or social awareness- regardless of attachment style, the way he treats/lies to people and talks about them is unacceptable.
It’s a terrible thing to experience his true feelings this way, but it gave you the opportunity to get inside his head and find out what he really thinks of you- and that is a gift. You know he doesn’t deserve one ounce of your head space let alone your heart space!! Random lies seem to flow naturally from him- he probably figured he could easily get away with all his lies with a stranger from a dating app, but it proves his lack of character and integrity. Two years is a long time to be with a person like him, but better than 5 years or life! Get out and move on to much better company. No worries, he’ll get what he deserves. And....reason #1,245 I’m leery of dating apps!!
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Post by kibbins on Oct 31, 2019 20:59:20 GMT
This is pretty terrible. He has no boundaries or social sense to say ALL that to a stranger on a dating app he's never spoken to or met before. He's obsessed with all his exes, which is a horrible sign, and even though he made fun of them to you and idealized them to your friend while vilifying you... no one healthy would bring them up so often. Stay so far away. This isn't just FA. He bends reality, lies, and gaslights. Sure, he's also still deactivated from you so you are painted black to him, but this isn't normal. When my FA exes shut down and deactivate from someone, they rarely talk about them and probably aren't thinking about it (for example, when my long term ex broke up with me the first time, he didn't tell anyone and I kept running into our mutual friends I'd met through him and they'd ask about him and I'd have to tell them we'd actually broken up even a month later). Not every FA is the same, but this sounds like something more. I agree, totally something more. He was sexually abused by a babysitter in childhood, physically abused by his father, who also left the family and lived separately most of his childhood, his mother is very very cold and no one in the family ever said I love you to each other or hugged.. He went on to be a womanizer prom king type in HS, then in college started to notice he was dumping women left and right for non-reasons. Now at 34 he is kind of a shut-in with a small tight-knit circle of male friends, huge workaholic, just got a new VP job at a major TV network, goes into narcissistic rages, has said he barely has a handle on his own reality. Was always telling me the problem with us were "my needs were too much for him", since he is "very independent". I was literally fine with seeing him once a week. Oh- to your point, he did tell my friend that he hadn't told any of his friends anything about our breakup. I don't even know if his friends ever knew we were together really. The one time I met them he was convinced I had made a terrible impression because I picked up a 5 minute call from my boss at one point in the night and he never brought me around again, even told me I was not invited to his Friendsgiving. Oof so toxic. I'm really questioning myself how I let this go on for so long. Its gonna take me awhile to be able to date again. |
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Post by kibbins on Oct 31, 2019 21:04:25 GMT
LOL that he used your conversation about attachment theory to make out like he is psychologically aware when he hits on other women. I'm so sorry Kibbins, you must feel like you wasted 2 years after hearing all that. That guy has Zero accountability, self honesty, or respect for women who have loved him. Are you okay? I know right. About the attachment theory thing. Lol. He was like, "its really interesting, you should look into it". The 2 times I brought up attachment stuff he pretended I wasn't even there. Definitely wasted 2 years, definitely annoyed at myself, definitely won't be ignoring red flags in the future. I think I'm okay now, thanks for asking. It's been nice hanging out with friends who actually make me feel loved |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 31, 2019 21:06:44 GMT
kibbins, if he joked about being a sociopath, he may have actually meant it. It is also different if he never told his friends you were dating... then of course he wouldn't bring it up. My ex and I were very serious, official, integrated in each other's lives, so it was bizarre he let everyone think everything was still fine and status quo with us. All that aside, yes, this is a traumatic situation to be involved in for 2 years. Focus on healing yourself, mourning, building some self-esteem back up first, then get your hands dirty in your own attachment stuff once you're stronger and have better perspective. For now, be kind to yourself.
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Post by kibbins on Oct 31, 2019 21:08:26 GMT
Thanks all for the responses, At this point I'm just grossed out that he is going to do this to another person. BTW the night we "cut things off"- the last thing I said to him was, "This is the very last thing I want to say to you. Please never talk to anyone about me the way you talk about Martha. Please never never speak of me." His response: "Of Course not. That was a joke between us."
It was not a joke between us. He had full on 10 person group texts of him railing on this woman and brought her up at work lunches with advertising bros. "His twin flame" from 5+ years ago. She is married now. I wish I could talk to Martha about this kind of but I won't and I'm sure she wouldn't want to go there anyway. I asked him once what Martha would tell me in regards to him and he said she would say "don't even waste your time". Another major red flag I just decided to ignore. :-)
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Post by kibbins on Oct 31, 2019 21:13:58 GMT
kibbins , if he joked about being a sociopath, he may have actually meant it. It is also different if he never told his friends you were dating... then of course he wouldn't bring it up. My ex and I were very serious, official, integrated in each other's lives, so it was bizarre he let everyone think everything was still fine and status quo with us. All that aside, yes, this is a traumatic situation to be involved in for 2 years. Focus on healing yourself, mourning, building some self-esteem back up first, then get your hands dirty in your own attachment stuff once you're stronger and have better perspective. For now, be kind to yourself. I do think he is one.. when I put more pieces together. He did admit to me before that sex was about "the chase" to him, so like, after he had conquered that person he was either disgusted by them, or if he liked them which was rare then he would continue in a friend capacity. Also very very obsessed with his image. The gym, his clothing, his job, his business cards, his GF being an extension of him................. I think his friends knew we were dating, just never really spoke of me, since he determined I didn't fit his image. I think he may have been more into being with Martha publicly because she kind of had a high profile job and identity. Thanks, I'm seeing a therapist next week finally. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Oct 31, 2019 21:48:02 GMT
Oh, wow...sorry!!! He truly has no boundaries or social awareness- regardless of attachment style, the way he treats/lies to people and talks about them is unacceptable. It’s a terrible thing to experience his true feelings this way, but it gave you the opportunity to get inside his head and find out what he really thinks of you- and that is a gift. You know he doesn’t deserve one ounce of your head space let alone your heart space!! Random lies seem to flow naturally from him- he probably figured he could easily get away with all his lies with a stranger from a dating app, but it proves his lack of character and integrity. Two years is a long time to be with a person like him, but better than 5 years or life! Get out and move on to much better company. No worries, he’ll get what he deserves. And....reason #1,245 I’m leery of dating apps!! There are %'s somewhere of attachment styles available as you age. It literally flips from 50-55% secure initially from 18-early 20s to 60% avoidant after mid 30s for obvious reasons. The lies and BS would work on an AP who hasn't bothered to work on themselves I would reckon moreso, a secure would quickly put 2 and 2 together in the space of 4-8 weeks via questioning, maybe even sooner. Certainly a person who talks about their exes to a stranger so openly and scathingly is a "red flag" and I would avoid them instantly. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 31, 2019 22:17:14 GMT
Oh, wow...sorry!!! He truly has no boundaries or social awareness- regardless of attachment style, the way he treats/lies to people and talks about them is unacceptable. It’s a terrible thing to experience his true feelings this way, but it gave you the opportunity to get inside his head and find out what he really thinks of you- and that is a gift. You know he doesn’t deserve one ounce of your head space let alone your heart space!! Random lies seem to flow naturally from him- he probably figured he could easily get away with all his lies with a stranger from a dating app, but it proves his lack of character and integrity. Two years is a long time to be with a person like him, but better than 5 years or life! Get out and move on to much better company. No worries, he’ll get what he deserves. And....reason #1,245 I’m leery of dating apps!! There are %'s somewhere of attachment styles available as you age. It literally flips from 50-55% secure initially from 18-early 20s to 60% avoidant after mid 30s for obvious reasons. The lies and BS would work on an AP who hasn't bothered to work on themselves I would reckon moreso, a secure would quickly put 2 and 2 together in the space of 4-8 weeks via questioning, maybe even sooner. Certainly a person who talks about their exes to a stranger so openly and scathingly is a "red flag" and I would avoid them instantly. @dualcitizen - Correct, and I’m in my mid 40’s so avoidant numbers are 80% in my age bracket!! I’m pretty good at spotting them quickly now- I feel like if the good ones at this age are taken then I’ll find a great secure widower in 20 years. Lol 😢 |
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Post by kibbins on Oct 31, 2019 22:21:48 GMT
Oh, wow...sorry!!! He truly has no boundaries or social awareness- regardless of attachment style, the way he treats/lies to people and talks about them is unacceptable. It’s a terrible thing to experience his true feelings this way, but it gave you the opportunity to get inside his head and find out what he really thinks of you- and that is a gift. You know he doesn’t deserve one ounce of your head space let alone your heart space!! Random lies seem to flow naturally from him- he probably figured he could easily get away with all his lies with a stranger from a dating app, but it proves his lack of character and integrity. Two years is a long time to be with a person like him, but better than 5 years or life! Get out and move on to much better company. No worries, he’ll get what he deserves. And....reason #1,245 I’m leery of dating apps!! There are %'s somewhere of attachment styles available as you age. It literally flips from 50-55% secure initially from 18-early 20s to 60% avoidant after mid 30s for obvious reasons. The lies and BS would work on an AP who hasn't bothered to work on themselves I would reckon moreso, a secure would quickly put 2 and 2 together in the space of 4-8 weeks via questioning, maybe even sooner. Certainly a person who talks about their exes to a stranger so openly and scathingly is a "red flag" and I would avoid them instantly. Right, I've heard that too, about the percentages.. definitely makes sense. I guess I'm moreso curious if avoidants tend to become more avoidant over time, though in this instance, there seems to be a lot more at play. Just strange his first relationships seemed normal with cohabitation, etc, they're still friendly and she seems to respect him still.. to like, now, where he can barely stand to be in the same room as someone for over 24 hrs, and more toxic stuff |
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Post by kibbins on Oct 31, 2019 22:26:43 GMT
There are %'s somewhere of attachment styles available as you age. It literally flips from 50-55% secure initially from 18-early 20s to 60% avoidant after mid 30s for obvious reasons. The lies and BS would work on an AP who hasn't bothered to work on themselves I would reckon moreso, a secure would quickly put 2 and 2 together in the space of 4-8 weeks via questioning, maybe even sooner. Certainly a person who talks about their exes to a stranger so openly and scathingly is a "red flag" and I would avoid them instantly. @dualcitizen - Correct, and I’m in my mid 40’s so avoidant numbers are 80% in my age bracket!! I’m pretty good at spotting them quickly now- I feel like if the good ones at this age are taken then I’ll find a great secure widower in 20 years. Lol 😢 After this experience I'm definitely spotting avoidants and even called one out who was a bit mind blown and texted me a week later to say he had read the book Attached, lol. I've joked that right now I'm waiting for the first round of divorced men from avoidant marriages, but uhhh hah still everyone has their baggage. Definitely leery of dating apps too though. I'm about ready to just marry my best male friend and call it a day with all of this, but I also like to make life as stressful as possible for myself, it seems. -_- |
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