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Post by kittygirl on Nov 6, 2019 13:29:32 GMT
Hello to all again. I regularly pour over the posts in this forum as a reference to help me deal with issues as they pop up. If I am experiencing something that has been talked about a lot I don't tend to post as I feel like it's been tackled already. But I am currently going through something and I am really wanting some insights from all of the wonderful people here who vary in their experiences with having current or ex FA partners to currently struggling with FA attachment or earned secure from FA.
The TL;DR Version: In your varying degrees of experience, do FAs (or DAs for that matter) ever "muscle through" their deactivation phases in order to placate a romantic partner? In other words, do they ever force interaction or even closeness when they DON'T want it in order to [fill in the blank-not hurt someone, keep someone around, not anger people, etc?]? If you want more details, read below
Full Version:
So my FA partner and I are long distance. For me, this is perfect because I just got out of a long relationship (as did he) and I think of a long distance relationship as sort of a "Relationship Lite (TM)". We are not so far that the drive is prohibitively long, but we are also far enough that the expectations about the relationship are pretty firm (we obviously aren't going to be hanging out every day or moving in together). My FA partner and I have the same issues that others on here do, but one thing that is truly remarkable about him, is that WHEN he is feeling like he might be able to open up to me a little, he has shared a lot (and very articulately) about how much PAIN his attachment issues cause him-particularly in the realm of not being able to trust people. Because he's been willing to open up about this stuff, is has allowed a pretty significant amount of communication between us about trust, closeness and loneliness. He is trying so damn hard (but I know that sometimes trying isn't enough to save a relationship), but is still in so much pain. This is why my default position with him is rarely (never, actually) anger even though he may cause me a ton of frustration and confusion (but that's another post for another day!)
Last week he and I were close via our communication. Lots of affection, sexting, dirty pics and videos, and all that good stuff (sorry if that's TMI ha). He had a particularly hard day at work one day and I wrote him a supportive text. He responded a few hours later with "You make me so happy [name]. I'm never happy to this is huge". I read that, and my stomach sort of dropped. "Oh shit" I thought "...he's going to start pulling away now" and sure enough, like clockwork he stops with the affection, starts talking to me like a buddy, and the communication frequency drops. Truth be told, this doesn't bother me too much as I know it's par for the course and typically when he is like this, I will just pop him a few texts (verrrrrry light and breezy-pics of cute animals or stuff i'm doing at work etc) and I remind him regularly that he doesn't need to respond (ironically, he has NEVER not responded when I have said this to him...only goes silent when he feels there is pressure TO respond. Interesting how that works). So for a couple days we did "Communication Light (TM)" (here I go with that again!) and then over the weekend I left him alone completely. We didn't talk and again that was fine. Now Monday hits and there is a problem----we have had plans to meet up this upcoming weekend that we made weeks ago and even though he's going through some funny stuff, I can't ignore these plans just because I perceive he needs space. Afterall, the MOST important thing for me in all my relationships is that I always remain my authentic self no matter what. And that I behave in a way that I see as sustainable long term. I would never ignore plans to see someone out of fear of freaking them out, yet I know this is a HUGE trigger for him even on a good day! (he has cancelled on me before and I know how hard it is for him to take a huge step towards closeness). So I pop him off a text just to test out the waters-hey maybe he's feeling great again today and we're good to go. But hmmmm no such luck. He's almost MORE terse now. Ok ok so you see my dilemma-bring up the WORST possible trigger for him and risk a full on sprint away from me OR stay quiet about it, wait for the weekend to roll around and stew. I decide to ruminate on this for one day. Yesterday comes and the decision is inescapable- "Look, you simply CAN'T behave in a way that compromises who you are. You are excited about this trip and you would bring it up to ANY partner you had in the past so you have do what's right by you FIRST. If he runs then at least you have no regrets with how you treated yourself". So I am all ready for a panic on his part. I also decide to make a few things clear when I bring this up to him---that as a reminder he is NOT trapped in this relationship. He can walk at any time and I am STILL going to be his friend forever (and before anyone comments on this-I am friends with virtually all my exes. It's worked out great for the 38 years Ive been on this Earth. I'm not a jealous or angry person so it doesn't bother me to see them move on and in fact I can often offer them support from a unique perspective). I reassure him that he's not a bad person, a broken person or a selfish person is he can't do it, BUT remember how we had plans this weekend? It's 3 days away now and I feel like we should at least address it (there was a lot more to the text-we often joke about how long my stupid texts are). I am fully prepared for a multitude of responses (from silence to anger to who knows)---when I do get one back that is ODD to say the least-it addresses the trip "Can I call you? I can't do Friday but I can do Saturday and Sunday". He calls and it's brief and not super enthusiastic but he wants to do this trip and wants to meet me half way.
Ok so i know what you guys are all thinking "Damn it this woman just wasted all my time slogging through this when I don't see what the problem is" and that's fair but there IS a problem-here's the problem---I KNOW him and I can tell he is not mentally present with this. It's like we are 2 coworkers discussing a business trip. This is just odd to me and so I now wonder if he is almost FORCING himself (through this deactivation) to interact and meet up even though he doesn't want to (and by the way I shouldn't call it "deactivation" as I don't know what's going on in his head. "Pulling away" is a more objective way of describing it). He is SUCH a people pleaser and will steamroll his own needs in order to placate those around him (working on his boundaries has been a HUGE thing he and I have been working on). So my question is-have any of you experienced this before? A seeminlgy real effort to be close on one hand while the brain doesn't seem in it? Did any of your partners FORCE these kinds of interactions even when they didn't want it? I made it clear we can reschedule the trip, no hard feelings, etc etc but no he wants to do it now. I am just soooooo prepared to go and have it be a shit show after (it's been tough following all of our trips as he gets close and then panics). Could he not be wanting to do this but forcing it anyway EVEN WITH all the outs I've given him?
Thanks for reading loves. I DON'T KNOW what I would do without the support and insights offered in this forum. TRULY invaluable
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 6, 2019 14:59:30 GMT
I am in a similar situation like you. Also LDR. We decided for a weekend, he said he could do Friday-Saturday but not Sunday. He actually managed to plan a job meeting at Saturday (which I suspect was an excuse for not spending the whole weekend). He expressed his fear before meeting me, and I thanked him for being brave to meet up anyway. He agreed and admitted he almost had told me he could not spend the night. I addressed that it seemed like he would need some space after a time being close, and that it was understandable and OK with me, he didn't have to invent excuses. He was very relieved, and said that I really understand him. Later we have identified that too much closeness at all levels (geographic, time, personal and emotional talk, physical and sexual) at the same time is overwhelming for him. We are now taking it slower and not so intense. This better for him, because he can relax and enjoy the meeting better. It is difficult to feel love when you are scared, right? Important in this phase to build safety. To answer your question I will say yes, he can be willing to meet you even if it is uncomfortable. He will do it both for you (because he respects your needs) and for himself (for not to lose you), I think. Best of luck for the weekend, I will be meeting my FA at Friday as well.  |
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Post by kittygirl on Nov 6, 2019 16:13:43 GMT
Thanks for the reply and that's great. Not that it's the theme of this thread BUT if you haven't met before, be VERY emotionally prepared for a serious pull back following the weekend (this isn't to freak you out in any way! But rather to prepare you...I always feel better if something happens that I am expecting). These meetings can be extremely intense (in some ways there are aspects of the LDR that are almost MORE intense than a daily relationship) and that can be very difficult for someone who struggles with attachment. My FA partner quite literally said "I want to make you pregnant" and "I don't think I can have any sort of relationship with you" within the same 24 hour period during and then after a meetup. Its emotional turmoil for them. I know you probably know all this!...but hey that's what this community is for I guess. Sharing our common experiences in hopes of helping one another.
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Post by happyidiot on Nov 6, 2019 16:24:52 GMT
Some points: 1. Yes, absolutely that can happen. I (as an FA) have done that, and I have also had partners do that. 2. Don't assume you know this is what's going on. It could also be your own fear. I am writing this post with the assumption that your intuition is correct, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is. People can and do get this wrong. 3. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone doing this, and making a huge deal out of it, treating us weirdly (for example you being either clingy or distant in response, incorrectly anticipating what you think we need), or assuming we don't want to go and giving us a million outs, is not helpful. "Placate" isn't necessarily the right word, as it means only doing something to keep you from getting mad. Although fear of conflict can be one reason for an FA to still do something when they are feeling fearful/deactivated, as bohemianraspberry said: He will do it both for you (because he respects your needs) and for himself (for not to lose you), I think. And to build on that, he might actually want to see you/go on this trip and understand that his discomfort/deactivating feelings are not something that need to be acted upon. I can think of plenty of examples when I chose closeness to my partner even when it made me uncomfortable and it wasn't that I "didn't want" to see them or be close to them, it was more like my nervous system wasn't cooperating. I have some ideas about how to think about it and respond to it when you think someone is "muscling through" their deactivation in order to force themselves to spend time with you, but it will have to wait a while as I'm just writing this on a break from work. But for now I want to say if you think someone you care about is doing this, take it as a gift, look at it optimistically, maybe they just care about your relationship enough to put themselves through discomfort. This is not a bad thing, we have to go through discomfort in order to be in relationships. We shouldn't actually run away from anything that triggers us. |
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Post by kittygirl on Nov 6, 2019 16:37:08 GMT
Wow this was SUCH a thoughtful and articulate response. I can't thank you enough. What a wonderful way you made me look at this. I'm serious. I am so appreciative and this all makes SO much sense to me. THIS IS WHY I COME ON HERE. Thank you HappyIdiot! <3
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 6, 2019 17:40:24 GMT
But for now I want to say if you think someone you care about is doing this, take it as a gift, look at it optimistically, maybe they just care about your relationship enough to put themselves through discomfort. Beautifully written. Yes, that is how I like to think about it, and be greatful for what we have now. |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 6, 2019 18:37:42 GMT
Not that it's the theme of this thread BUT if you haven't met before, be VERY emotionally prepared for a serious pull back following the weekend We have met. The Friday-Saturday I mentioned was in September. Where I praised him for being brave to show up while he was scared. It is in my thread here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2214/reluctant-person-year-long-story The next date was just dinner and a 4 hour dialogue, and then he felt comfortable. We talked about how and why he felt different in these situations. That was when I suggested we should meet without having sex, to take the pressure of, and he said it would be better for him. So when we meet in 2 days it will be like the last time. Funny in a way, because he originally initiated by approaching me sexually, and now he would rather wait and take it easy. But at least I know he is not after just one thing. |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 6, 2019 18:56:07 GMT
So my FA partner and I are long distance. For me, this is perfect because I just got out of a long relationship (as did he) and I think of a long distance relationship as sort of a "Relationship Lite (TM)". We are not so far that the drive is prohibitively long, but we are also far enough that the expectations about the relationship are pretty firm (we obviously aren't going to be hanging out every day or moving in together). Same situation with us. It might be easier for a FA to force himself to an uncomfortable meeting in a long distance relationship beacuse he knows he soon will be getting a lot of space. But - in a LDR it also would be more practical to have a whole weekend together when you finally meet. And that could be too much for a FA/DA, just read some other threads here about vacations... |
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Post by kittygirl on Nov 6, 2019 20:12:24 GMT
Oh of course I remember you! I actually read your entire original thread and thought "Wow I have a lot in common with this person"! I guess if all else fails, its so SO nice to know that we have some kindred spirits on here who are experiencing the same types of situations (they all come in so many forms). You are SPOT ON with your assessment and I think you are absolutely right. Thank you so much. It's nice to know people out there understand (can be so difficult to explain this to friends who are seeing this from an outsider point of view)
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 6, 2019 21:54:52 GMT
Oh of course I remember you! I actually read your entire original thread and thought "Wow I have a lot in common with this person"! I guess if all else fails, its so SO nice to know that we have some kindred spirits on here who are experiencing the same types of situations (they all come in so many forms). You are SPOT ON with your assessment and I think you are absolutely right. Thank you so much. It's nice to know people out there understand (can be so difficult to explain this to friends who are seeing this from an outsider point of view) True! 😍 It is almost impossible to explain, even to my closest friends, who know about our long story. They do not understand how I can endure to be so patient. I also believe they think he couldn't possible be so interested, since it is taking so long to get into a relationship. But to my surprise I have come to like the slow pace. It is tender and we share a very unique connection. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 6, 2019 22:02:50 GMT
Some points: 1. Yes, absolutely that can happen. I (as an FA) have done that, and I have also had partners do that. 2. Don't assume you know this is what's going on. It could also be your own fear. I am writing this post with the assumption that your intuition is correct, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is. People can and do get this wrong. 3. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone doing this, and making a huge deal out of it, treating us weirdly (for example you being either clingy or distant in response, incorrectly anticipating what you think we need), or assuming we don't want to go and giving us a million outs, is not helpful. "Placate" isn't necessarily the right word, as it means only doing something to keep you from getting mad. Although fear of conflict can be one reason for an FA to still do something when they are feeling fearful/deactivated, as bohemianraspberry said: He will do it both for you (because he respects your needs) and for himself (for not to lose you), I think. And to build on that, he might actually want to see you/go on this trip and understand that his discomfort/deactivating feelings are not something that need to be acted upon. I can think of plenty of examples when I chose closeness to my partner even when it made me uncomfortable and it wasn't that I "didn't want" to see them or be close to them, it was more like my nervous system wasn't cooperating. I have some ideas about how to think about it and respond to it when you think someone is "muscling through" their deactivation in order to force themselves to spend time with you, but it will have to wait a while as I'm just writing this on a break from work. But for now I want to say if you think someone you care about is doing this, take it as a gift, look at it optimistically, maybe they just care about your relationship enough to put themselves through discomfort. This is not a bad thing, we have to go through discomfort in order to be in relationships. We shouldn't actually run away from anything that triggers us. It was the only way I became and stayed married. I loved this woman, yet would find myself triggered at the slightest escalation. Before I knew of attachment theory, I just thought I was being crazy, cowardly, irrational and stupid, and I knew the only way to grow was to not be those things. So, I pushed myself. Placating isn’t the word, I don’t think. |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 6, 2019 22:12:18 GMT
Some points: 1. Yes, absolutely that can happen. I (as an FA) have done that, and I have also had partners do that. 2. Don't assume you know this is what's going on. It could also be your own fear. I am writing this post with the assumption that your intuition is correct, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is. People can and do get this wrong. 3. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone doing this, and making a huge deal out of it, treating us weirdly (for example you being either clingy or distant in response, incorrectly anticipating what you think we need), or assuming we don't want to go and giving us a million outs, is not helpful. "Placate" isn't necessarily the right word, as it means only doing something to keep you from getting mad. Although fear of conflict can be one reason for an FA to still do something when they are feeling fearful/deactivated, as bohemianraspberry said: And to build on that, he might actually want to see you/go on this trip and understand that his discomfort/deactivating feelings are not something that need to be acted upon. I can think of plenty of examples when I chose closeness to my partner even when it made me uncomfortable and it wasn't that I "didn't want" to see them or be close to them, it was more like my nervous system wasn't cooperating. I have some ideas about how to think about it and respond to it when you think someone is "muscling through" their deactivation in order to force themselves to spend time with you, but it will have to wait a while as I'm just writing this on a break from work. But for now I want to say if you think someone you care about is doing this, take it as a gift, look at it optimistically, maybe they just care about your relationship enough to put themselves through discomfort. This is not a bad thing, we have to go through discomfort in order to be in relationships. We shouldn't actually run away from anything that triggers us. It was the only way I became and stayed married. I loved this woman, yet would find myself triggered at the slightest escalation. Before I knew of attachment theory, I just thought I was being crazy, cowardly, irrational and stupid, and I knew the only way to grow was to not be those things. So, I pushed myself. Placating isn’t the word, I don’t think. Yeah, I agree with all this. I've had this done to me by unaware FA, but I don't think it was malicious. I think it was really wanting to give things a real try in theory, feeling engulfed in practice (not even by anything I did!), and then deciding it meant that I'm not the one because of not feeling the way things "should," so withdrawing and giving up. But it was actually the core underlying issues not being addressed, and never making the decision to work through the independent attachment issues on their end. Both due to fear they couldn't overcome and lack of understanding themselves. Nothing I could do except respect where they were at and move on. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 6, 2019 22:53:26 GMT
I had three separate lots of therapy and never heard of this stuff.
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Post by kittygirl on Nov 7, 2019 1:41:25 GMT
OK wow this is so helpful to know and totally makes sense. Of course it logically makes sense that sometimes with discomfort and pain sprouts growth. Also Mrob I have read that while attachment theory has obviously been around forever, increasing acknowledgment of its role in romantic relationships is a relatively recent thing. Which is weird.
Just a lil update-he called and has postponed for a week. Gave a very legit reason so I am taking it at face value (ha sometimes I am afraid he's going to find this forum so I always keep it a tad vague). This whole thread and your responses to it have been so enlightening to me (and helped me to remind myself that just because someone feels discomfort that can be a very honest attempt on their part for growth and I don't need to give them a million outs to "spare" them that pain)
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Post by stu on Nov 7, 2019 13:26:13 GMT
It was the only way I became and stayed married. I loved this woman, yet would find myself triggered at the slightest escalation. Before I knew of attachment theory, I just thought I was being crazy, cowardly, irrational and stupid, and I knew the only way to grow was to not be those things. So, I pushed myself. Placating isn’t the word, I don’t think. Yeah, I agree with all this. I've had this done to me by unaware FA, but I don't think it was malicious. I think it was really wanting to give things a real try in theory, feeling engulfed in practice (not even by anything I did!), and then deciding it meant that I'm not the one because of not feeling the way things "should," so withdrawing and giving up. But it was actually the core underlying issues not being addressed, and never making the decision to work through the independent attachment issues on their end. Both due to fear they couldn't overcome and lack of understanding themselves. Nothing I could do except respect where they were at and move on. It's sad when you realize there really isn't anything you can do to help, even with the knowledge and understanding of what the other person is going through. And just having to respect where they are and let it go. I wish these kinds of issues never had to take people apart. It's really heartbreaking to go through and witness. It also reminded me of my brothers struggle with his drug addiction for a decade, but being unable to help or do anything to get him to stop. Just watching him put himself into the ground and just hoping every week that goes by that this isn't the one where he ends up being another OD statistic. |
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