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Post by faithopelove on Dec 2, 2019 2:23:54 GMT
No, I don’t think it’s ok, and I think you’re flirting with fire. He acted with no regard to your feelings and showed no respect for you. Friendship requires mutual regard and respect.
Sounds like you had a volatile ending and it must have been hard to recover the way he just left and ghosted you. Being friends invites old feelings and new. Having feelings makes you completely susceptible to falling for him again, getting hurt again and makes for a lot of mixed signals. In this situation, I would guard my heart and stay no contact.
Friendship is possible after several months of no contact- even years, and no romantic feelings. In this situation, I’d find a different friend.
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Post by serenity on Dec 2, 2019 5:29:00 GMT
I agree with faith, about being careful when you are still vulnerable and single. Being on good terms with an ex is a positive thing, but its different to real friendship. `Good terms' doesn't require much involvement, but can make life feel a little more peaceful because you're not holding onto negativity.
Real Friendship is an attachment, and so requires a lot of care and showing up for one another for it to be healthy IMO.
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Post by omega14 on Dec 6, 2019 1:27:30 GMT
If you’re questioning it then you shouldn’t be friends. I too learned about avoidant attachment through dating one and by learned I mean I went through the ghosting and all the other classic behaviours. He always ended up coming back, he started therapy and repeatedly maintained that ‘I made him better’ but, as it goes, the dysfunction continued. I made sure I really wanted to be friends with him, which took me a long time to asses due to the emotional rollercoaster that came along with this new type of relationship, and once I was sure - his ghosting (or any of the avoidance) wasn’t relevant anymore. Every time he would pull a stunt, I would remind him that this is not what I consider friendship and tell him what I needed. If he tried to insinuate sex, I would tell him that makes me uncomfortable and remind him that I require both physical and emotional closeness for sex to occur. If he acknowledged it I would reciprocate in a positive manner and if he didn’t I would just carry on and not initiate further. Eventually communication slowly started changing in terms of tone and the way we speak but it’s not in any way my reco to pursue this unless you are certain you are willing to commit to the person as they are rather than what you want them to be.
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Post by mrob on Dec 14, 2019 2:48:44 GMT
Question is, why are you entertaining this? The answer is in you, not in him or the way he has treated you. You’re a month on. There’s been plenty of time to disengage. Time to look inside.
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Post by omega14 on Dec 14, 2019 3:32:48 GMT
Question is, why are you entertaining this? The answer is in you, not in him or the way he has treated you. You’re a month on. There’s been plenty of time to disengage. Time to look inside. That’s what I don’t know. Why am I entertaining this? It feels good having him back in my life. But I know where this road leads. I know it and I’m still doing it. It will be great for months, until it’s not. Until we get to close and he has to pull away. He cannot communicate this to me so he’ll just ghost because that’s easier for him. I know this but it seems to hurt more to just walk away from him. It’s also not a crime to stay. It’s ok to repeat the lesson until you get it and give yourself permission to be the other person with issues in this relationship. You know what I mean? If you’re not ready or the motivation is not there - it will come eventually and if this kind of timeline is acceptable then that’s just your truth and it’s cool. I spent 6 months before I really understood what’s up. Then it was about 8 months of emotional turmoil but I was 100% aware that I can’t go around this person. Or under them or over them. I had to go through them and so I accepted that. My ego knew he wasn’t going to change before I do and that’s the kind of mindset that doesn’t work in a friendship. It’s a false sense of security. But I was always certain that like attracts like and if I want to stay it’s because I like the dysfunction - and that’s ok. Now, I am in no way promoting dysfunctional relationships or advocating staying somewhere that isn’t good for you but sometimes the pain of another person distracts us from our own. Every time he left, or distanced, or detached or deactivated - I used it as an opportunity to question myself while in my feelings and follow them to their roots. For me, writing helped. I would write to him and call myself out on the shit I was doing and mostly never send it. Writing out my emotions helped me from reacting to just synthesizing. |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Dec 14, 2019 13:00:59 GMT
I think omega14 made a good answer here. It is a process. It is not that you suddenly realize that this is not the right man for you and then you can move on like nothing has happened. Because the feelings is not aligned/connected with your rational mind yet. I have the same "father love issue" as you, so I too logically understands where the wound comes from. My psychologist says I am searching for something that I haven't found in my relationships. I think my next task will be to understand what I really am searching for. I understand now that I have never consciously looked for safety when choosing a man (I am more of a risk taker), but now for the first time I feel like all I want is someone to just hold me so I can feel safe. And unfortunately FA wasn't there for me to do that, but quite the opposite. I didn't think it was so hard to get a grip of what I really need and value in a relationship. But when we gradually understand this, we are closer to healing. My suggestion is to make a list of what you need a man to do/be for you so that you can feel at peace. |
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Post by omega14 on Dec 14, 2019 18:35:20 GMT
It’s also not a crime to stay. It’s ok to repeat the lesson until you get it and give yourself permission to be the other person with issues in this relationship. You know what I mean? If you’re not ready or the motivation is not there - it will come eventually and if this kind of timeline is acceptable then that’s just your truth and it’s cool. I spent 6 months before I really understood what’s up. Then it was about 8 months of emotional turmoil but I was 100% aware that I can’t go around this person. Or under them or over them. I had to go through them and so I accepted that. My ego knew he wasn’t going to change before I do and that’s the kind of mindset that doesn’t work in a friendship. It’s a false sense of security. But I was always certain that like attracts like and if I want to stay it’s because I like the dysfunction - and that’s ok. Now, I am in no way promoting dysfunctional relationships or advocating staying somewhere that isn’t good for you but sometimes the pain of another person distracts us from our own. Every time he left, or distanced, or detached or deactivated - I used it as an opportunity to question myself while in my feelings and follow them to their roots. For me, writing helped. I would write to him and call myself out on the shit I was doing and mostly never send it. Writing out my emotions helped me from reacting to just synthesizing. I did a lot of journal writing when I was going through the pain of the break-up and it really did help. I wrote down all the things I wanted to say to him but couldn’t because he wouldn’t communicate with me. I should do that now too. Thanks for the idea. And I am fully aware that I’m the one with the problem in that I am allowing someone that cannot be there for me in the long run back into my life. I just feel like I’m in love with him and I can’t seem to stop being in love with him. I want to though. As a side note, I began to date another man about 6 weeks ago. This man has been very communicative, open with his intentions and feelings and has been consistently dependable. He wants a relationship with me and the truth is...I feel nothing for him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s fun. We have a good time. But I feel no spark. No chemistry really. Sometimes I can’t tell whether it’s my dysfunction that makes me not interested in a man or it’s just sometimes you just don’t have the spark. Of course I feel all the chemistry in the world with the DA. I noticed that is a reoccurring theme I see here. We have ALL the chemistry with the people who can’t give us what we want. Humans are complicated AF and it’s easy to compartmentalize with ‘if/therefore’ statements. My best lesson from this forum was definitely to allow myself to be whatever it that I am and accept myself first before throwing stones. At the time I didn’t feel like I was ‘working on myself’ but in hindsight we know ourselves best and we set the traps for ourselves. I did no contact, self work, all of it and the whole time I knew he’s just a really powerful force in my life and hiding from him or getting to a place where he no longer exists seemed like a bigger battle than getting more anchored and letting the live remain. In Taoism there is a principal called wei wu wei which translates to ‘action with inaction’. Meaning the resistance, and force to change, and willing myself unlove is more work than just getting more anchored and more flexible when the force hits. |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 14, 2019 19:55:24 GMT
And I am fully aware that I’m the one with the problem in that I am allowing someone that cannot be there for me in the long run back into my life. I just feel like I’m in love with him and I can’t seem to stop being in love with him. I want to though. As a side note, I began to date another man about 6 weeks ago. This man has been very communicative, open with his intentions and feelings and has been consistently dependable. He wants a relationship with me and the truth is...I feel nothing for him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s fun. We have a good time. But I feel no spark. No chemistry really. Sometimes I can’t tell whether it’s my dysfunction that makes me not interested in a man or it’s just sometimes you just don’t have the spark. Of course I feel all the chemistry in the world with the DA. So, this lack of "spark" is almost definitely the insecure attachment and dysfunction. Unless there was no physical attraction to begin with / the partner never tasted or smelled good to you (which may be legit lack of spark, with the scientific theory being you don't have compatible immune systems and wouldn't have as strong children), if you have anxious insecure attachment tendencies then lack of spark with someone who is more secure or anxious than you actually is that person not aggravating your attachment wounds. If you like the person well enough but something inexplicably feels missing even though there's some attraction, no obvious dealbreakers or real issues, just no sparks, they're not stimulating your nervous system in this overwhelming way you've come to believe signals love. More often than not, it signals anxiety. That's why all the chemistry is felt with avoidants. The avoidants are unconsciously reminding you of something familiar (the environment that caused the original wounding, most likely), you feel all these things with them as a result, and also feel driven to "change" your narrative by having a stable relationship in which they're choosing you... to heal and correct your wound through projection. The problem is, your dynamic with someone avoidant and not working on healing themselves won't heal it. Even if the avoidant is working on themselves, because the dysfunction is also with you, if they healed through their own work and you didn't do yours, you'd end up losing interest over the longer-run when they became emotionally available. Then, rinse and repeat with the next avoidant partner. It took me about 13 years of dating to figure that out and another 5 years to figure out what to do with it. Once I did, the type of people I was attracted to started changing. This doesn't mean I never feel sparks with avoidants anymore, but that I recognize healthy love is about choosing it, comfort, support, reliability. This doesn't mean NO chemistry, but it means getting to know each other and building something, not chasing chemistry. To do this, you really have to build up self-esteem, self-acceptance, ability to self emotionally regulate and not rely on a partner to make you feel okay or to keep you feeling sparks all the time. Sparks aren't sustainable and are supposed to just get you together at the beginning. They're physiologically actually stress hormones (there's a lot cortisol) which is why they're not intended to last forever biologically. You may want to consider focusing on yourself if you're not emotionally available with your new guy and getting sucked back in with your FA. The only way out of both predicaments is moving forward in healing your attachment wounding. The FA will be a distraction, and you can't give the new guy what he needs or appreciate what he has to give right now. Bad timing. |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 14, 2019 20:03:52 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 15, 2019 17:49:35 GMT
I don’t think I can be friends with B yet...not until I have replaced the story that is currently the prominent one.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 16, 2019 2:28:57 GMT
I don’t think I can be friends with B yet...not until I have replaced the story that is currently the prominent one. I mistakenly thought I could. But the feelings weren’t gone as much as I thought and I wasn’t as strong emotionally as I thought. It all came right back, but with a lot of trepidation on my part. I’m wading in treacherous waters. I really thought by B wanting to reconnect to me as a friend, there was this “chance” his feelings would change....but that was not what was going on at all for him and I think I did myself a huge disservice by not cutting ties. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 3:00:39 GMT
So, this lack of "spark" is almost definitely the insecure attachment and dysfunction. Unless there was no physical attraction to begin with / the partner never tasted or smelled good to you (which may be legit lack of spark, with the scientific theory being you don't have compatible immune systems and wouldn't have as strong children), if you have anxious insecure attachment tendencies then lack of spark with someone who is more secure or anxious than you actually is that person not aggravating your attachment wounds. If you like the person well enough but something inexplicably feels missing even though there's some attraction, no obvious dealbreakers or real issues, just no sparks, they're not stimulating your nervous system in this overwhelming way you've come to believe signals love. More often than not, it signals anxiety. That's why all the chemistry is felt with avoidants. The avoidants are unconsciously reminding you of something familiar (the environment that caused the original wounding, most likely), you feel all these things with them as a result, and also feel driven to "change" your narrative by having a stable relationship in which they're choosing you... to heal and correct your wound through projection. The problem is, your dynamic with someone avoidant and not working on healing themselves won't heal it. Even if the avoidant is working on themselves, because the dysfunction is also with you, if they healed through their own work and you didn't do yours, you'd end up losing interest over the longer-run when they became emotionally available. Then, rinse and repeat with the next avoidant partner. It took me about 13 years of dating to figure that out and another 5 years to figure out what to do with it. Once I did, the type of people I was attracted to started changing. This doesn't mean I never feel sparks with avoidants anymore, but that I recognize healthy love is about choosing it, comfort, support, reliability. This doesn't mean NO chemistry, but it means getting to know each other and building something, not chasing chemistry. To do this, you really have to build up self-esteem, self-acceptance, ability to self emotionally regulate and not rely on a partner to make you feel okay or to keep you feeling sparks all the time. Sparks aren't sustainable and are supposed to just get you together at the beginning. They're physiologically actually stress hormones (there's a lot cortisol) which is why they're not intended to last forever biologically. You may want to consider focusing on yourself if you're not emotionally available with your new guy and getting sucked back in with your FA. The only way out of both predicaments is moving forward in healing your attachment wounding. The FA will be a distraction, and you can't give the new guy what he needs or appreciate what he has to give right now. Bad timing. This is so much good information. I think I have a pattern of not being sparked by men that like me, which sounds ridiculous as I type it. But you bring up a valid point-is it really chemistry or is it anxiety? I think with him it is both. But he’s not good for me and that should make him not someone I want. I’ve got to work on me and that’s what I don’t know how to do. I am going to look at that link you sent me. I’m interested in learning more. There is info in the Healing Anxious or Ambivalent thread in the general forum about AP's confusing longing with love. The narrative is, I want, therefore I cannot have, and the yearning for what is missing creates the attachment (abandonment wound being activated.) Apparebtly of the attachment object becomes truly available, an entranced unaware AP will tend to leave the relationship because it doesn't fit the narrative and the wounding pattern. |
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Post by iz42 on Dec 16, 2019 5:43:52 GMT
And I am fully aware that I’m the one with the problem in that I am allowing someone that cannot be there for me in the long run back into my life. I just feel like I’m in love with him and I can’t seem to stop being in love with him. I want to though. As a side note, I began to date another man about 6 weeks ago. This man has been very communicative, open with his intentions and feelings and has been consistently dependable. He wants a relationship with me and the truth is...I feel nothing for him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s fun. We have a good time. But I feel no spark. No chemistry really. Sometimes I can’t tell whether it’s my dysfunction that makes me not interested in a man or it’s just sometimes you just don’t have the spark. Of course I feel all the chemistry in the world with the DA. So, this lack of "spark" is almost definitely the insecure attachment and dysfunction. Unless there was no physical attraction to begin with / the partner never tasted or smelled good to you (which may be legit lack of spark, with the scientific theory being you don't have compatible immune systems and wouldn't have as strong children), if you have anxious insecure attachment tendencies then lack of spark with someone who is more secure or anxious than you actually is that person not aggravating your attachment wounds. If you like the person well enough but something inexplicably feels missing even though there's some attraction, no obvious dealbreakers or real issues, just no sparks, they're not stimulating your nervous system in this overwhelming way you've come to believe signals love. More often than not, it signals anxiety. That's why all the chemistry is felt with avoidants. The avoidants are unconsciously reminding you of something familiar (the environment that caused the original wounding, most likely), you feel all these things with them as a result, and also feel driven to "change" your narrative by having a stable relationship in which they're choosing you... to heal and correct your wound through projection. The problem is, your dynamic with someone avoidant and not working on healing themselves won't heal it. Even if the avoidant is working on themselves, because the dysfunction is also with you, if they healed through their own work and you didn't do yours, you'd end up losing interest over the longer-run when they became emotionally available. Then, rinse and repeat with the next avoidant partner. It took me about 13 years of dating to figure that out and another 5 years to figure out what to do with it. Once I did, the type of people I was attracted to started changing. This doesn't mean I never feel sparks with avoidants anymore, but that I recognize healthy love is about choosing it, comfort, support, reliability. This doesn't mean NO chemistry, but it means getting to know each other and building something, not chasing chemistry. To do this, you really have to build up self-esteem, self-acceptance, ability to self emotionally regulate and not rely on a partner to make you feel okay or to keep you feeling sparks all the time. Sparks aren't sustainable and are supposed to just get you together at the beginning. They're physiologically actually stress hormones (there's a lot cortisol) which is why they're not intended to last forever biologically. You may want to consider focusing on yourself if you're not emotionally available with your new guy and getting sucked back in with your FA. The only way out of both predicaments is moving forward in healing your attachment wounding. The FA will be a distraction, and you can't give the new guy what he needs or appreciate what he has to give right now. Bad timing. I find this really helpful. In the past it has been really difficult to discern whether I'm legitimately not attracted to someone or the "spark" is lacking because of insecure attachment. I have gotten myself into two relationships with partners I genuinely wasn't physically attracted to. I thought that my lack of immediate attraction must be a sign of their stability/security, so I went ahead and tried to make things work. They were decent guys, and I thought the physical attraction might come in time... it just never did. I think I'm at a point now where I can tell whether "spark" actually means avoidance or insecure attachment. Honestly though, it feels daunting be looking for both physical attraction and emotional availability. I realize that chemistry fades over time, but it does seem important to have some amount of attraction in the beginning. I want to be hopeful that I'll find an emotionally available man who I'm attracted to, but it seems kind of unlikely. |
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