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Post by iz42 on Dec 5, 2019 23:29:02 GMT
I have spent the past 3 months doing a lot of hard work in therapy to understand what went wrong in my last relationship and the role I played in it. It's been over a year since we broke up. I understand my patterns better and my self-esteem is much more solid. I no longer have intrusive thoughts about my ex. I am at a place where I could probably have him in my life as an acquaintance without feeling triggered. I am better at setting boundaries now. I enjoy my alone time and time spent with friends.
At the same time, I want a partner. I know I will be okay if I never find one, but I think it would be nice to have a long term partner. I've started going on first dates over the past month or so and I am moving very slowly and cautiously. Here is my question. Do I need to get to a place where I feel like I don't need or want to be in a relationship? Should that be my goal before I try dating at all?
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Me
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Post by Me on Dec 5, 2019 23:54:57 GMT
I think it's ok to want to be in one as long as you dont feel like you need to be in one and if you think you will be strong enough to recognize when a relationship could become unhealthy or triggering and be able to walk away from it . I'm AP or at least in this relationship because my partner triggers me so badly but I'm sort of becoming anti relationship . I wont date when him and I break up because there is no way I'm putting myself through this again
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Post by alexandra on Dec 6, 2019 0:01:16 GMT
Here is my question. Do I need to get to a place where I feel like I don't need or want to be in a relationship? Should that be my goal before I try dating at all? A healthy goal can be wanting to be in a relationship but not needing to be in one. When you need one, it creates a few problems that will have a negative impact both on any relationship and on you: you may enter a relationship that isn't right for you simply because you need to be in one (which makes the relationship not about the partner but about having someone there, setting you up as an AP to tolerate incompatibilities), you invest too much of yourself / identity and possibly forego your needs to keep the partner around (which will lead to devastation if you break up), you may put a lot of pressure on and rush getting to know someone to attain a "goal" of having a relationship label (which may attract and keep around unhealthy partners). I want to be in a relationship, but I don't need to be in one because I'm complete without it. But I'm also happier with a partner, as long as I maintain good boundaries. (Really, as long as we both do.) |
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Post by iz42 on Dec 6, 2019 0:13:18 GMT
alexandra yes - makes a lot of sense. I know I definitely don't need a relationship. I think sometimes in my mind I see wanting a relationship as weak or AP, but then again never wanting intimacy or closeness would probably put me in the DA category.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 6, 2019 0:26:33 GMT
iz42, yes, this is also AP conditioning. In my culture, society is always making it seem like men are being forced into commitments by needy women. It's just a narrative, it's really not the rule. I felt too embarrassed for the longest time to tell guys that, which contributed to me just dating avoidants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 2:29:25 GMT
alexandra yes - makes a lot of sense. I know I definitely don't need a relationship. I think sometimes in my mind I see wanting a relationship as weak or AP, but then again never wanting intimacy or closeness would probably put me in the DA category. No, DA doesn't equate to not wanting a relationship or connection, they are defended against it. To be DA does not mean to not want connection. Also, DA have difficulty admitting that they want a relationship, viewing it as weakness in themselves . Ultimately, deactivation and persistent feelings of futility around hoping or wanting render a DA approach to relationship erring on the side of pessimism and giving up, or retreating in deactivation as a form of coping. It does not mean the desire and wish isn't there. It is thwarted by incapacity. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 2:34:02 GMT
I should add, the desire for relationship is not the same as the AP desire, though. There is still a strong need for autonomy and independence, it is not the same priority, it has meaning but in a different way than to AP. Different perspective on that does not mean inferior perspective, but different can very well mean incompatible when it comes to AP and DA. Very different set of needs and preferences.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 6, 2019 2:58:39 GMT
Also, DA have difficulty admitting that they want a relationship, viewing it as weakness in themselves . Exactly. As far as what I meant, the ying to my yang when I was doing the very AP thing of only hearing the cultural narrative that I was too needy (because that's the most negative storyline!) was finding other people who were suppressing communicating properly about relationships. Because those who wanted them weren't giving me sparks and I probably seemed off to them, too. So, in my case, that was avoidants. Didn't mean either side didn't want connection, just meant we were 360 degrees dysfunctional about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 3:02:50 GMT
Also, DA have difficulty admitting that they want a relationship, viewing it as weakness in themselves . Exactly. As far as what I meant, the ying to my yang when I was doing the very AP thing of only hearing the cultural narrative that I was too needy (because that's the most negative storyline!) was finding other people who were suppressing communicating properly about relationships. Because those who wanted them weren't giving me sparks and I probably seemed off to them, too. So, in my case, that was avoidants. Didn't mean either side didn't want connection, just meant we were 360 degrees dysfunctional about it. Yes! Two very dysfunctional approaches to connection, each patterned after their original wounding. Triggering the hell out of each other. Unhealthy seeks its own level. So does healthy. |
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Post by iz42 on Dec 6, 2019 3:05:21 GMT
I should add, the desire for relationship is not the same as the AP desire, though. There is still a strong need for autonomy and independence, it is not the same priority, it has meaning but in a different way than to AP. Different perspective on that does not mean inferior perspective, but different can very well mean incompatible when it comes to AP and DA. Very different set of needs and preferences. I think where i got the idea that DA often don't desire relationships was on Jeb's website. It says "Dismissive-avoidant individuals have completed a mental transformation that says: 'I am good, I don’t need others, and they aren’t really important to me. I am fine as I am.'" But I see what you're saying about it being lack of capacity or ability rather than lack of desire. It sounds like the desire is hard to access, where with AP it is much more evident. |
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Post by iz42 on Dec 6, 2019 3:10:45 GMT
Also, DA have difficulty admitting that they want a relationship, viewing it as weakness in themselves . Exactly. As far as what I meant, the ying to my yang when I was doing the very AP thing of only hearing the cultural narrative that I was too needy (because that's the most negative storyline!) was finding other people who were suppressing communicating properly about relationships. Because those who wanted them weren't giving me sparks and I probably seemed off to them, too. So, in my case, that was avoidants. Didn't mean either side didn't want connection, just meant we were 360 degrees dysfunctional about it. Yeah, that makes sense. It sounds to me like the secure approach is to be more open about communicating the desire for partnership but also to be willing and ready to walk away from someone that can't provide it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 12:52:38 GMT
I should add, the desire for relationship is not the same as the AP desire, though. There is still a strong need for autonomy and independence, it is not the same priority, it has meaning but in a different way than to AP. Different perspective on that does not mean inferior perspective, but different can very well mean incompatible when it comes to AP and DA. Very different set of needs and preferences. I think where i got the idea that DA often don't desire relationships was on Jeb's website. It says "Dismissive-avoidant individuals have completed a mental transformation that says: 'I am good, I don’t need others, and they aren’t really important to me. I am fine as I am.'" But I see what you're saying about it being lack of capacity or ability rather than lack of desire. It sounds like the desire is hard to access, where with AP it is much more evident. Jeb isn't a psychologist or neuroscientist or anything like that- he just compiled information and wrote a book. A better source for accurate and comprehensive information about attachment injury and how it plays out internally and externally would be an actual psychologist. There are many out there making good information available, including Diane Poole Heller, Stan Tatkin, Thais Gibson, to name a few. Love Compass seems to have good info also- that's just a handful of professionals with real experience identifying and treating the symptoms of attachment injury. Ive said exactly what Jeb states, above. But completed a mental transformation? What? Nothing is complete with an unresolved wound- there is an ongoing conflict around connection because we are HUMAN. Needing connection. To imply that the decision to not connect is complete- is like saying an AP triggered reaction is a completed mental transformation. I'd turn to professionals for the best information on this. |
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Post by serenity on Dec 7, 2019 5:05:09 GMT
Yeah, that makes sense. It sounds to me like the secure approach is to be more open about communicating the desire for partnership but also to be willing and ready to walk away from someone that can't provide it. I agree with this. Coming out of a relationship with an avoidant, I would say emotional self sufficiency may be your strong suit right now. That will attract avoidants, but they will scurry away if you are clear that you want something serious. It may take a little bit to consider how an emotionally available partner may fit in with you, and to get in touch with your emotional needs again? The right guy might help you with it too. My two long term partners were full of genuine empathy , great people skills, treated all women respectfully without discrimination, and were loyal available guys who knew they wanted a girlfriend . They can be harder men to find, but tend to be patient and willing to go slow for a good thing. Sometimes their mothers and female friends have appropriated them as surrogate spouses though, lol. The only boundaries I ever wrestled with in those relationships were inappropriately possessive females in the beginning. They can attract narcissists. I struggled with it in my first 5 yr relationship in my early 20's. By my second relationship, I was more adept at dealing with third party boundary issues . That's the type I'll look for again when I'm ready. |
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