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Post by Helsbells on Jan 9, 2020 22:35:41 GMT
Stop calling her the poor girl she is a women for goodness sake. I wont reviel my whole story here because it isn't pleasant but I still know how to show up and be present for the people I truly love. Your wasting your time on her please believe me. Oh believe me Hels, there are boundaries  . While i'm mindful and empathic, I wont be used/abused. Totally agree with you [br I'm so pleased to hear that as some of us have had such shit lives but still kwno how to love and respect our partners. Hope I didnt offend you just seem so caring and lovely x] |
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Post by serenity on Jan 9, 2020 22:36:03 GMT
I understand, that would almost come across as judgemental, "gaslighting" potentially at it's worst, almost Narcissist in nature, with little empathy displayed. And I agree, look I even dwelled on it for quite some time, and took the risk, I thought it was worth it if it helps her, said as much to her, full open disclosure. As @dualcitizen and others may know, I'm in a similar position of wanting to bring it up. Never in a "you are this" or whatever way or armchair diagnosis, just like, "hey, I learned about this and it helped me so much" and maybe "I've noticed you seem to pull away when we get close." He's opened up about his emotional/mental state, says I get him, admitted to avoidance, etc... but it's such a fine line, and I'm kind of scared. I've also really been taking a look at the AP control thing especially since yesterday, etc. But I keep going back to I think this could help relief a lot of pain for him if he looked into it — as it has changed my life and gave me answers I had been looking for for years. I also have to come to terms with the fact he may disappear if I do, and it's a risk, but like @dualcitizen said, a risk at some point you have to feel like is worth it because of their well-being over you getting to have them in your life w/ them in so much pain. It's hard to see someone you love hurting. Do you think he's really in pain though? He's sounds like he's taking care of himself, making himself comfortable, and doesn't sound to be in pain. There have been no negative consequences for his distancing in his relationship with you, even its for months, so he keeps doing it because it works for him . But his distance and unpredictability has an impact on you, and this is where you are stuck right now. You're the one suffering, and he likely does not know that. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 9, 2020 22:43:30 GMT
Oh believe me Hels, there are boundaries . While i'm mindful and empathic, I wont be used/abused. Totally agree with you [br I'm so pleased to hear that as some of us have had such shit lives but still kwno how to love and respect our partners. Hope I didnt offend you just seem so caring and lovely x] Haha, all good Hels, no look, I know what you mean, you can be "too caring" and overlook the reality, which is she must identify and take responsibility for her own actions. Everyone has been through stuff in life. Regardless of the trauma/mistreatment, ultimately as you say, she's an adult not a child anymore, I get it. I'm aware of it, there have always been boundaries, and she's the type of person that does not accept help, she's a people pleaser. So, you know, I haven't ever felt like i've been "used" so to speak, and never will allow that. I'm not a "nice guy", I am actually quite hard would you believe, but empathic in this case when you see sheer abuse from a parent/s, and mindful of all of your stories, it's been a good awakening for myself to see what other people go through, you can be ignorant about all this in life if you wish. I'm just also generally trying to be more mindful in life overall all as well. Also on a sidenote, shes been cheated on by her ex. husband and her last LDR guy prior to me. She also mentioned the guy in between was "controlling". So she's definitely gravitating to insecurely attached blokes. The second guy sounds like an A-P potentially, how she was even married is beyond me, maybe a D-A? He was a medic, so shiftworker, and she's just hooked up again actually, to another......shiftworker....so the pattern continues. I'm the odd one out. Either way, i've said what i've said now, will not be bringing up anything unless she instigates in future. Ball is firmly in her court. |
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 9, 2020 23:04:07 GMT
[br I'm so pleased to hear that as some of us have had such shit lives but still kwno how to love and respect our partners. Hope I didnt offend you just seem so caring and lovely x] Haha, all good Hels, no look, I know what you mean, you can be "too caring" and overlook the reality, which is she must identify and take responsibility for her own actions. Everyone has been through stuff in life. Regardless of the trauma/mistreatment, ultimately as you say, she's an adult not a child anymore, I get it. I'm aware of it, there have always been boundaries, and she's the type of person that does not accept help, she's a people pleaser. So, you know, I haven't ever felt like i've been "used" so to speak, and never will allow that. I'm not a "nice guy", I am actually quite hard would you believe, but empathic in this case when you see sheer abuse from a parent/s, and mindful of all of your stories, it's been a good awakening for myself to see what other people go through, you can be ignorant about all this in life if you wish. I'm just also generally trying to be more mindful in life overall all as well. Also on a sidenote, shes been cheated on by her ex. husband and her last LDR guy prior to me. She also mentioned the guy in between was "controlling". So she's definitely gravitating to insecurely attached blokes. The second guy sounds like an A-P potentially, how she was even married is beyond me, maybe a D-A? He was a medic, so shiftworker, and she's just hooked up again actually, to another......shiftworker....so the pattern continues. I'm the odd one out. Either way, i've said what i've said now, will not be bringing up anything unless she instigates in future. Ball is firmly in her court. I think you are the odd one out but bless you for being a beautiful man Can I tell you about myself if it matter My sister 1 year older died and my mum was so at a loss she rejected me. I was raped by a family doctor when I was 13. I married a drug addict who abused me when I was 18, he was much older than me. I left him for a man I truly loved who was an alcoholic we remained married for over 25 yrs when I lost him to cancer. The first person I had a relationship with was the avoidant ex who brought me here. I guess this is my journey to finding out about myself and all the wonderful people who share on here and for that I am truly grateful. We all have our scars and journey but together on this forum we can heal one another, well hopefully x |
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 9, 2020 23:06:49 GMT
Sorry caroline for hijacking your post and going off topic xx
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 9, 2020 23:15:00 GMT
Haha, all good Hels, no look, I know what you mean, you can be "too caring" and overlook the reality, which is she must identify and take responsibility for her own actions. Everyone has been through stuff in life. Regardless of the trauma/mistreatment, ultimately as you say, she's an adult not a child anymore, I get it. I'm aware of it, there have always been boundaries, and she's the type of person that does not accept help, she's a people pleaser. So, you know, I haven't ever felt like i've been "used" so to speak, and never will allow that. I'm not a "nice guy", I am actually quite hard would you believe, but empathic in this case when you see sheer abuse from a parent/s, and mindful of all of your stories, it's been a good awakening for myself to see what other people go through, you can be ignorant about all this in life if you wish. I'm just also generally trying to be more mindful in life overall all as well. Also on a sidenote, shes been cheated on by her ex. husband and her last LDR guy prior to me. She also mentioned the guy in between was "controlling". So she's definitely gravitating to insecurely attached blokes. The second guy sounds like an A-P potentially, how she was even married is beyond me, maybe a D-A? He was a medic, so shiftworker, and she's just hooked up again actually, to another......shiftworker....so the pattern continues. I'm the odd one out. Either way, i've said what i've said now, will not be bringing up anything unless she instigates in future. Ball is firmly in her court. I think you are the odd one out but bless you for being a beautiful man Can I tell you about myself if it matter My sister 1 year older died and my mum was so at a loss she rejected me. I was raped by a family doctor when I was 13. I married a drug addict who abused me when I was 18, he was much older than me. I left him for a man I truly loved who was an alcoholic we remained married for over 25 yrs when I lost him to cancer. The first person I had a relationship with was the avoidant ex who brought me here. I guess this is my journey to finding out about myself and all the wonderful people who share on here and for that I am truly grateful. We all have our scars and journey but together on this forum we can heal one another, well hopefully x This doesn't say so much about them but about me and my low self esteem and what I will put up with. Well no more, I am healing myself now and that is my main focus. Weather I remain living alone, because I'm not alone I have my wonderful children but choose to live alone and heal is my choice and it is one I'm happy to choose for peace and harmony in my life. Enough is enough and I have had enough x |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 9, 2020 23:16:02 GMT
Haha, all good Hels, no look, I know what you mean, you can be "too caring" and overlook the reality, which is she must identify and take responsibility for her own actions. Everyone has been through stuff in life. Regardless of the trauma/mistreatment, ultimately as you say, she's an adult not a child anymore, I get it. I'm aware of it, there have always been boundaries, and she's the type of person that does not accept help, she's a people pleaser. So, you know, I haven't ever felt like i've been "used" so to speak, and never will allow that. I'm not a "nice guy", I am actually quite hard would you believe, but empathic in this case when you see sheer abuse from a parent/s, and mindful of all of your stories, it's been a good awakening for myself to see what other people go through, you can be ignorant about all this in life if you wish. I'm just also generally trying to be more mindful in life overall all as well. Also on a sidenote, shes been cheated on by her ex. husband and her last LDR guy prior to me. She also mentioned the guy in between was "controlling". So she's definitely gravitating to insecurely attached blokes. The second guy sounds like an A-P potentially, how she was even married is beyond me, maybe a D-A? He was a medic, so shiftworker, and she's just hooked up again actually, to another......shiftworker....so the pattern continues. I'm the odd one out. Either way, i've said what i've said now, will not be bringing up anything unless she instigates in future. Ball is firmly in her court. I think you are the odd one out but bless you for being a beautiful man Can I tell you about myself if it matter My sister 1 year older died and my mum was so at a loss she rejected me. I was raped by a family doctor when I was 13. I married a drug addict who abused me when I was 18, he was much older than me. I left him for a man I truly loved who was an alcoholic we remained married for over 25 yrs when I lost him to cancer. The first person I had a relationship with was the avoidant ex who brought me here. I guess this is my journey to finding out about myself and all the wonderful people who share on here and for that I am truly grateful. We all have our scars and journey but together on this forum we can heal one another, well hopefully x Appreciate the kind words and honesty with your life experience, very very tough  , and testament to you, you're still going strong and working through things and confronting it, that's the big thing isn't it Hels. All the best to you. |
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 9, 2020 23:20:19 GMT
I think you are the odd one out but bless you for being a beautiful man Can I tell you about myself if it matter My sister 1 year older died and my mum was so at a loss she rejected me. I was raped by a family doctor when I was 13. I married a drug addict who abused me when I was 18, he was much older than me. I left him for a man I truly loved who was an alcoholic we remained married for over 25 yrs when I lost him to cancer. The first person I had a relationship with was the avoidant ex who brought me here. I guess this is my journey to finding out about myself and all the wonderful people who share on here and for that I am truly grateful. We all have our scars and journey but together on this forum we can heal one another, well hopefully x Appreciate the kind words and honesty with your life experience, very very tough , and testament to you, you're still going strong and working through things and confronting it, that's the big thing isn't it Hels. All the best to you. Thank you, and I hope you move on to meet a wonderful person who will appreciate such a thoughtful caring man. They are rare so remember that x |
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 9, 2020 23:24:35 GMT
Sorry caroline for hijacking your post and going off topic xx You’re fine! We’re all here to help each other and be supportive. I’m so glad you’re at a point where you’re prioritizing your happiness and self love... I know life has thrown a bunch of you, but the fact you’re here now is what’s important and amazing. It’s hard to face those demons, process, and get them out of your system but it sounds like you’re well on your way. That’s so inspiring and I hope you’re kind to yourself and also proud of yourself! [br Aww thanks my lovely, that's very kind of you to say. I hope all works out for you and your man, you have a good start with alm you have learnt on this site. Love and blessings to you xx |
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Post by nyc718 on Jan 9, 2020 23:44:21 GMT
Yes, I didn't bring it up to him because I didn't want to offend him and further put pressure on our crumbling relationship, and that is why I felt like I had no choice but to leave the relationship. He was unaware, and I was no longer able to bear the relationship as it was. But I do think I can say with authority to myself that he is an avoidant and matches all the patterns of a Fearful Avoidant that have been described and talked about in all the literature and here. So in that way, I do know him better. But that doesn't mean I feel superior or otherwise look down on him in any way because I don't. The only reason I think that he may have been in a frozen state while deactivating is because of mostly what I've read, and we also had a discussion here about how time goes by differently when a FA is engulfed or deactivating. I am giving him a little bit of a pass because I know for the most part he wasn't trying to hurt me, but yes, I agree that we do have a responsibility to each other and he probably took my patience a little bit too for granted. I get that and I personally find it better to walk than to try SO hard to figure out someone’s behavior where you start to play therapist and fix them. I mean even in a diagnosis. I know that’s not necessarily the intent but that’s what happens when it plays out. I say this having various thoughts here and there about the same thing in telling the FA that brought me here. But from what I know of him, I honestly think he’d love to have that information. Not as a tool to work on his issues. But as a tool to excuse his persistent patterns of dysfunctional behavior. He had a therapist once tell him he has a fear of abandonment and I can’t tell you how many times I heard him talk about it. Was that a good thing? Not really if it didn’t inspire him to use that understanding to work on the dysfunctional patterns. That’s my particular situation. But I think it’s good to be aware of that little known possibility as well. But what is trying SO hard? When you love someone and you have the ability, you try, right? if something is meaningful to me, I will try "so hard" and not have regrets, because ultimately every relationship taught me something valuable, this one probably taught me the most so far. I'm confused why you keep saying that anyone wants to play therapist, because I'm not seeing that. Any of us who want to bring up FA to FAs have no idea how to bring it up without pushing them further away, so I don't get anyone is trying to be a therapist to anyone more than be a loving partner to them, which terrifies them and leaves us bewildered. Again, there's no malintent on either part. I am not with my ex obviously, but me being here is me trying to process the relationship and everything that went on. It's valuable to me and it's healing for me to try to make sense of a situation that left me wounded. As far as your FA that you said he wasn't inspired to want to change, I mean, it's harder for some to face themselves, right? It wasn't so hard for me to want to work on myself, but I can't say I had a terribly traumatic childhood. Yes, I have had childhood traumas to overcome, but they weren't traumatic in the way that I was so shut down that I couldn't function and my childhood is completely blacked out, and for that I feel fortunate. But I do know some people's childhoods were terribly painful and traumatic, and the last thing they want to do is revisit any of it for one second. So for some who receive knowledge about attachment, it may take some time, a long time, and it may be a very, very long process before they get to the place of wanting to dig deeper. I have compassion for that. |
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 9, 2020 23:57:05 GMT
I think you are the odd one out but bless you for being a beautiful man Can I tell you about myself if it matter My sister 1 year older died and my mum was so at a loss she rejected me. I was raped by a family doctor when I was 13. I married a drug addict who abused me when I was 18, he was much older than me. I left him for a man I truly loved who was an alcoholic we remained married for over 25 yrs when I lost him to cancer. The first person I had a relationship with was the avoidant ex who brought me here. I guess this is my journey to finding out about myself and all the wonderful people who share on here and for that I am truly grateful. We all have our scars and journey but together on this forum we can heal one another, well hopefully x Appreciate the kind words and honesty with your life experience, very very tough , and testament to you, you're still going strong and working through things and confronting it, that's the big thing isn't it Hels. All the best to you. Thank you, it's a daily thing but I try to keep it about me and not another only I can really heal this shit, so take full responsibility xx |
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Post by mrob on Jan 10, 2020 0:01:44 GMT
Yes, I didn't bring it up to him because I didn't want to offend him and further put pressure on our crumbling relationship, and that is why I felt like I had no choice but to leave the relationship. He was unaware, and I was no longer able to bear the relationship as it was. But I do think I can say with authority to myself that he is an avoidant and matches all the patterns of a Fearful Avoidant that have been described and talked about in all the literature and here. So in that way, I do know him better. But that doesn't mean I feel superior or otherwise look down on him in any way because I don't. The only reason I think that he may have been in a frozen state while deactivating is because of mostly what I've read, and we also had a discussion here about how time goes by differently when a FA is engulfed or deactivating. I am giving him a little bit of a pass because I know for the most part he wasn't trying to hurt me, but yes, I agree that we do have a responsibility to each other and he probably took my patience a little bit too for granted. I get that and I personally find it better to walk than to try SO hard to figure out someone’s behavior where you start to play therapist and fix them. I mean even in a diagnosis. I know that’s not necessarily the intent but that’s what happens when it plays out. I say this having various thoughts here and there about the same thing in telling the FA that brought me here. But from what I know of him, I honestly think he’d love to have that information. Not as a tool to work on his issues. But as a tool to excuse his persistent patterns of dysfunctional behavior. He had a therapist once tell him he has a fear of abandonment and I can’t tell you how many times I heard him talk about it. Was that a good thing? Not really if it didn’t inspire him to use that understanding to work on the dysfunctional patterns. That’s my particular situation. But I think it’s good to be aware of that little known possibility as well. That’s the beginning, though. How often do we see that on this board? For me, I’ve said it more than once... Attachment theory has changed my life. If someone wants to know more, they’ll ask. If not, that’s their business, not mine. A saying... “The worst vice is advice”. If I feel manipulated to do what you want, chances are I’ll walk away. |
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 10, 2020 0:08:08 GMT
Wierd thing is my Fa is close to his parents, loves them very much.
Revealed slight enmeshment how he loves his mum more than any women, and his father was strict. But is extremely close to them now and calls them twice a week, where I thought I had more off a normal back ground and never have a desire to talk to my parents.
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 10, 2020 0:14:44 GMT
I'm confused why you keep saying that anyone wants to play therapist, because I'm not seeing that. Any of us who want to bring up FA to FAs have no idea how to bring it up without pushing them further away, so I don't get anyone is trying to be a therapist to anyone more than be a loving partner to them, which terrifies them and leaves us bewildered. Again, there's no malintent on either part. I am not with my ex obviously, but me being here is me trying to process the relationship and everything that went on. It's valuable to me and it's healing for me to try to make sense of a situation that left me wounded. As far as your FA that you said he wasn't inspired to want to change, I mean, it's harder for some to face themselves, right? It wasn't so hard for me to want to work on myself, but I can't say I had a terribly traumatic childhood. Yes, I have had childhood traumas to overcome, but they weren't traumatic in the way that I was so shut down that I couldn't function and my childhood is completely blacked out, and for that I feel fortunate. But I do know some people's childhoods were terribly painful and traumatic, and the last thing they want to do is revisit any of it for one second. So for some who receive knowledge about attachment, it may take some time, a long time, and it may be a very, very long process before they get to the place of wanting to dig deeper. I have compassion for that. You’re bringing up an issue that a person has to resolve internally on their own or with a professional and you open the door to play therapist. It’s not your place (to play therapist) and it’s likely he doesn’t want you to either (in general. I know you’re not in this place now.) A romantic partner has such a different role with conflicting “duties.” A therapist is a temporary person in your life to help you work on internal issues. Is that what you want to be? It doesn’t make for a successful relationship. What you define as loving may not be how another defines it. What you define as loving I honestly sense (feel) as controlling though you may not intend that. What if your FA wants to be loved a different way by not wanting you to bring up issues he has to work on on his own? Of course you have every right to walk if the situation affects you to a point where it doesn’t suit you. But no one likes to be fixed by their partner. You can argue that’s not what you’re doing and I understand the intent but that’s how it will feel, guaranteed. You cannot push someone to do what they don’t want to do nor what feels badly to them. And loving someone sometimes means walking away because a relationship involves expectations. And some can’t handle expectations from others when they’re battling internal demons. The childhood thing, I know. The FA I dated had a rough childhood. But for many reasons, it’s not my place to take on his issues while he did nothing about them himself. m I do understand where your coming from, but these fas worm themselves into one life before they reveal there true self. It's very tough to be the other person no matter what. |
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Post by Helsbells on Jan 10, 2020 0:16:30 GMT
You’re bringing up an issue that a person has to resolve internally on their own or with a professional and you open the door to play therapist. It’s not your place (to play therapist) and it’s likely he doesn’t want you to either (in general. I know you’re not in this place now.) A romantic partner has such a different role with conflicting “duties.” A therapist is a temporary person in your life to help you work on internal issues. Is that what you want to be? It doesn’t make for a successful relationship. What you define as loving may not be how another defines it. What you define as loving I honestly sense (feel) as controlling though you may not intend that. What if your FA wants to be loved a different way by not wanting you to bring up issues he has to work on on his own? Of course you have every right to walk if the situation affects you to a point where it doesn’t suit you. But no one likes to be fixed by their partner. You can argue that’s not what you’re doing and I understand the intent but that’s how it will feel, guaranteed. You cannot push someone to do what they don’t want to do nor what feels badly to them. And loving someone sometimes means walking away because a relationship involves expectations. And some can’t handle expectations from others when they’re battling internal demons. The childhood thing, I know. The FA I dated had a rough childhood. But for many reasons, it’s not my place to take on his issues while he did nothing about them himself. m I do understand where your coming from, but these fas worm themselves into one life before they reveal there true self. It's very tough to be the other person no matter what. No Fas are good at playing normal loving and real you in. So please dont go there |
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. While i'm mindful and empathic, I wont be used/abused. Totally agree with you
, and testament to you, you're still going strong and working through things and confronting it, that's the big thing isn't it Hels. All the best to you. 