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Post by mrob on Dec 16, 2019 18:25:10 GMT
I can understand why anybody remotely secure would judge and blame the actions of an unaware/unwilling FA. I've done all those things he's done. It is mindscrewing.
I can't decribe the urgency behind the deactivation and reconnection, even seeing the futility of push pull. It's been almost two years for me and I have to sometimes remind myself to stay out of her life. Sometimes she contacts me, and I'm cordial, but she's in a relationship, I have to exercise this "character" referred to in another thread and not step over the line.
I do wish you all the best in this.
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Post by nyc718 on Dec 16, 2019 19:53:22 GMT
I can understand why anybody remotely secure would judge and blame the actions of an unaware/unwilling FA. I've done all those things he's done. It is mindscrewing. I can't decribe the urgency behind the deactivation and reconnection, even seeing the futility of push pull. It's been almost two years for me and I have to sometimes remind myself to stay out of her life. Sometimes she contacts me, and I'm cordial, but she's in a relationship, I have to exercise this "character" referred to in another thread and not step over the line. I do wish you all the best in this. I just want you to know that you are miles, MILES ahead of any unaware FA simply because you even acknowledge that you want to make personal changes, and I sincerely admire you for that. Even the fact that you can't "describe the urgency" of some of your actions, you are aware that you can't describe it, and that's huge. You are far more in touch with yourself than any FA I know. Your insight is truly valuable, thank you for sharing, and please do not stop sharing. I hope me sharing has provided valuable insight as well. I actually admire everyone on this board who comes here and tries to understand themselves and others. It is painful for all of us. But the desire to have better quality relationships and better quality life in general is clearly why we are here. Thank you again. |
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Post by serenity on Dec 16, 2019 20:22:29 GMT
I can understand why anybody remotely secure would judge and blame the actions of an unaware/unwilling FA. I've done all those things he's done. It is mindscrewing. I can't decribe the urgency behind the deactivation and reconnection, even seeing the futility of push pull. It's been almost two years for me and I have to sometimes remind myself to stay out of her life. Sometimes she contacts me, and I'm cordial, but she's in a relationship, I have to exercise this "character" referred to in another thread and not step over the line. I do wish you all the best in this. I guess I don't see it as judging/blaming, but rather assigning accountability ? The purpose of that is to understand what can and cannot be changed in the relationship, and accepting the reality of the situation. Its a way of letting go of toxic hope. I wanted to explain that assigning accountability is not intended to shame a loved one, and especially not you mrob <3 Describing a negative behaviour, calling them on it, is not writing them off as a human being. You can still love and appreciate someone very deeply who starts to behave inconsistently (especially when you know its not their fault ) What is often called `insecure' or `anxious' behaviour around here (on the part of the partner), is usually more a combination of empathetic love (established during the honeymoon period), and the natural reaction to the intermittent reinforcement dynamic, that replaces the FA's stable behavior during the honeymoon. Intermittent reinforcement causes the same desperation and anxiety in rats and animals, so I don't think any particular person is immune to it. Just some people are more experienced and know to back out of the relationship sooner, or they never loved you to begin with. Please know, there's nothing to ever be ashamed of if you have FA attachment style. Its not `who you are' its an attachment style. Most aware people can change (or at least evolve) this over time (according to what I've read anyway), its not a death sentence. |
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Post by amber on Dec 16, 2019 20:35:45 GMT
Yeah I’m proud of myself for not caving in as in the past i would have wanted to see him to sort through things. You are right in that they atruggle to be upfront about their needs (my FA told me he didn’t know what his needs were, I think they are literally completely unaware)... so even if he did want to see me or reconcile I doubt he would come forth and say it. But I don’t want that anyway as I’m not wasting time with someone like this. I feel a lot of compassion for FA as I’ve read a lot about it and I see it comes from a lot of emotional neglect and poor parenting and the connection with self never grew... my ex used to say how he hated his indecisiveness in life, he could see what he needed to do but was paralysed to do it. Ie once he crashed into someone’s car and it cost him $4000 to repair, and he still has no form of insurance to this day! U think u would learn... so I look at his life and see how I became one of the spokes in the wheel of dysfunction and confusion...hopefully you can see that with your ex too, it’s so nothing personal. They have relational injuries
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Post by dhali on Dec 17, 2019 1:53:46 GMT
To be clear, I don’t miss people I was with, and just wasn’t into them anymore. The way it surfaces is that it took me a while to end things because an issue (usually controlling behavior) doesn’t get resolved. I don’t surprise the person in the sense that there was never a chance at improvement, but frequently the ex didn’t realize how serious it is (I do feel that it does get communicated). I’m more and more convinced that communication is the issue with me as I’d rather gloss over some things- or even tell a lie (terrible, I know) - if the story gets complicated by me saying all the things. I don’t really know why I do that other than it’s easier to say the 1-2 sentences that gets the point across, over the whole story which is usually long and convoluted.
So the missing/reconnect is only with a person I felt connected to and had to end things with because nothing was changing. My feeling for them don’t change, only my need to not be in something that doesn’t work for me. If that makes sense. If I just wasn’t into her, I’ll basically never think of her again.
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Post by nyc718 on Dec 17, 2019 2:44:11 GMT
To be clear, I don’t miss people I was with, and just wasn’t into them anymore. The way it surfaces is that it took me a while to end things because an issue (usually controlling behavior) doesn’t get resolved. I don’t surprise the person in the sense that there was never a chance at improvement, but frequently the ex didn’t realize how serious it is (I do feel that it does get communicated). I’m more and more convinced that communication is the issue with me as I’d rather gloss over some things- or even tell a lie (terrible, I know) - if the story gets complicated by me saying all the things. I don’t really know why I do that other than it’s easier to say the 1-2 sentences that gets the point across, over the whole story which is usually long and convoluted. So the missing/reconnect is only with a person I felt connected to and had to end things with because nothing was changing. My feeling for them don’t change, only my need to not be in something that doesn’t work for me. If that makes sense. If I just wasn’t into her, I’ll basically never think of her again. Very interesting, I appreciate the honesty. It's so interesting to me that you say your feelings don't change. When I am apart from someone for a time after a breakup, my feelings for them fade out. I have to be connected in a relationship for my feelings to remain. I am friendly with a few of my exes, and it is perfectly fine that we go for long times between contact, but any romantic feelings all but disappear in time after things end. And with ones with whom I'm not friends with but didn't particularly end on bad terms, they aren't on my radar at all. As far as you talking about your communication, it reminds me of my recent ex. He was kind of a people pleaser (not saying you are, I don't know that) and didn't want to offend or upset people, but it also left him feeling frustrated because he didn't express himself honestly, and he was prone to being taken advantage of, especially at work. It actually pained me sometimes to see him like that, because I felt he didn't have to worry so much about other people more than himself, as he was just as worthy as anyone to be okay in a situation. I also felt like he lied sometimes because it was easier than to be honest, not because he was trying to be malicious or actually hurt anyone. It made me sad, because I could see so much goodness in him that he couldn't see in himself. |
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Post by nyc718 on Dec 17, 2019 2:53:59 GMT
Yeah I’m proud of myself for not caving in as in the past i would have wanted to see him to sort through things. You are right in that they atruggle to be upfront about their needs (my FA told me he didn’t know what his needs were, I think they are literally completely unaware)... so even if he did want to see me or reconcile I doubt he would come forth and say it. But I don’t want that anyway as I’m not wasting time with someone like this. I feel a lot of compassion for FA as I’ve read a lot about it and I see it comes from a lot of emotional neglect and poor parenting and the connection with self never grew... my ex used to say how he hated his indecisiveness in life, he could see what he needed to do but was paralysed to do it. Ie once he crashed into someone’s car and it cost him $4000 to repair, and he still has no form of insurance to this day! U think u would learn... so I look at his life and see how I became one of the spokes in the wheel of dysfunction and confusion...hopefully you can see that with your ex too, it’s so nothing personal. They have relational injuries I completely relate about the indecision and indecisiveness. I recognized that in myself years ago. I've come a long way from that though, it's hard for me to recognize some aspects of myself from long ago. But my ex is still at that place, and I'm sure my subconscious strongly recognized it and was drawn to that, amongst other things. He also makes poor decisions regarding some things even though he has had experiences that one would think he would want to not repeat! He is also paralyzed in some areas, and it's so easy for me on the outside to look in and say, just do it this way, you'll be so much happier! But I couldn't do that because ultimately it has to be he himself who motivates himself. |
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Post by amber on Dec 17, 2019 5:26:08 GMT
Did you used to be FA? Yeah I wonder if a lot of FA have a fairly chaotic and disorganised life, I read somehwere that they are often in survival mode and not good with finances, planning ahead etc and live hand to mouth which was my ex to a T.its sad to watch unfold and you want to save them like I did, but I think rescuing and saving is a dysfunctional pattern in and of itself, and only creates a situation of disempowerment and or resentment
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Post by dhali on Dec 17, 2019 8:33:49 GMT
Well, in fairness, my feelings probably are just longings for connection. And that’s typically my last love. Once I find a new woman I’m excited about, then I tend to drop feelings for my ex. But not necessarily a fondness
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 17, 2019 9:46:57 GMT
Well, in fairness, my feelings probably are just longings for connection. And that’s typically my last love. Once I find a new woman I’m excited about, then I tend to drop feelings for my ex. But not necessarily a fondness What perplexes me...and mind you...I am AP....is when there are....”mixed messages”. Up until the last time I saw B, he was still flirty....the last time I saw him.....he was....well....he brought over a bottle of whiskey and drank a 6 pack of beer along with half the bottle....so I should have known something was up.....but he was walled/distracted and he suggested some friend of his that he thought I should date. He had never done that before....I felt I was being kicked to the curb....like “thanks for everything, time for you to move on now”. It hurt so damn much. I would have taken a bullet for him and it felt like a slap in the face. Then, not 3 weeks later, he is FB official with a girl he had said he was going to take it slow with. I don’t understand. He was always only 1 foot in while he was seeing me and then he jumps both feet in with her. Sorry....just feeling really sad about the whole thing. |
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Post by mrob on Dec 17, 2019 10:17:53 GMT
Well, in fairness, my feelings probably are just longings for connection. And that’s typically my last love. Once I find a new woman I’m excited about, then I tend to drop feelings for my ex. But not necessarily a fondness I relate to that, dhali. |
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Post by nyc718 on Dec 17, 2019 14:35:28 GMT
Did you used to be FA? Yeah I wonder if a lot of FA have a fairly chaotic and disorganised life, I read somehwere that they are often in survival mode and not good with finances, planning ahead etc and live hand to mouth which was my ex to a T.its sad to watch unfold and you want to save them like I did, but I think rescuing and saving is a dysfunctional pattern in and of itself, and only creates a situation of disempowerment and or resentment In my 20s I definitely had aspects of it. I remember distinctly feeling like I was one person on the inside and another on the outside, an insecure secure person, if you will. I was able to pretend I had my shit together, but inside I was plagued with second guessing about many things. But I knew that I felt this way and I consciously wanted to feel on the inside the way I was portraying on the outside - confident, secure, decisive. I have done a lot of self introspection, therapy, self help, observation, etc over the years. I've come a long way. I am absolutely more confident in my decisions and I am able to be kind to myself if I feel that I made a misstep or mistake. I have boundaries and I have good self esteem. This does't mean though that there is never any insecurity. I can be triggered by a person or action, but I am so much better at recognizing that I am being triggered, as opposed to just reacting. I said better, not perfect! I am a work in progress till the day I die. |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 17, 2019 20:01:33 GMT
nyc718, have you read this older thread? I put a long description early on the first page about this in there too, but the whole thing is pretty interesting and talking about the fake outside / real inside issues that can happen with FA and why. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1501/fake
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Post by Dualcitizen on Dec 17, 2019 23:27:13 GMT
Did you used to be FA? Yeah I wonder if a lot of FA have a fairly chaotic and disorganised life, I read somehwere that they are often in survival mode and not good with finances, planning ahead etc and live hand to mouth which was my ex to a T.its sad to watch unfold and you want to save them like I did, but I think rescuing and saving is a dysfunctional pattern in and of itself, and only creates a situation of disempowerment and or resentment In my 20s I definitely had aspects of it. I remember distinctly feeling like I was one person on the inside and another on the outside, an insecure secure person, if you will. I was able to pretend I had my shit together, but inside I was plagued with second guessing about many things. But I knew that I felt this way and I consciously wanted to feel on the inside the way I was portraying on the outside - confident, secure, decisive. I have done a lot of self introspection, therapy, self help, observation, etc over the years. I've come a long way. I am absolutely more confident in my decisions and I am able to be kind to myself if I feel that I made a misstep or mistake. I have boundaries and I have good self esteem. This does't mean though that there is never any insecurity. I can be triggered by a person or action, but I am so much better at recognizing that I am being triggered, as opposed to just reacting. I said better, not perfect! I am a work in progress till the day I die. No one is perfect Nyc, everyone makes mistakes and everyone needs someone to lean on at some time in their life. |
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Post by beyondconfused on Dec 18, 2019 0:16:20 GMT
Well, in fairness, my feelings probably are just longings for connection. And that’s typically my last love. Once I find a new woman I’m excited about, then I tend to drop feelings for my ex. But not necessarily a fondness What perplexes me...and mind you...I am AP....is when there are....”mixed messages”. Up until the last time I saw B, he was still flirty....the last time I saw him.....he was....well....he brought over a bottle of whiskey and drank a 6 pack of beer along with half the bottle....so I should have known something was up.....but he was walled/distracted and he suggested some friend of his that he thought I should date. He had never done that before....I felt I was being kicked to the curb....like “thanks for everything, time for you to move on now”. It hurt so damn much. I would have taken a bullet for him and it felt like a slap in the face. Then, not 3 weeks later, he is FB official with a girl he had said he was going to take it slow with. I don’t understand. He was always only 1 foot in while he was seeing me and then he jumps both feet in with her. Sorry....just feeling really sad about the whole thing. It's easy to think hes "both feet in" with her but you cant really see what's going on from where you're standing. You have no idea what that relationship is like. If he said he wanted to take it slow, and now theres fast forwarding behavior, perhaps he still isnt in a place where he can have a healthy relationship. Hes rushing through to get to the later stages of a relationship and most likely when he realizes he ran too far, too fast, history will repeat. But that's not for you to worry about. You are to worry about you. Where you are, what you want, becoming who you want to be. Focus more on that than what you THINK he has. |
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