|
|
Post by anne12 on Dec 28, 2019 10:20:15 GMT
"does healthy connection takes work at the beginning"...
What do you mean when you write "work" ?
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Dec 28, 2019 19:31:44 GMT
I start to wonder if a healthy connection takes work at the beginning. I know relationships can take work, but shouldn't that happen later? Shouldn't it be easy early on? I think it's pretty normal that a relationship takes work from the get go for someone with an insecure attachment style. But the work is simply actually getting to know someone without letting your own fears and attachment issues sabotage things. Overriding the "paranoia" is definitely work, but it's not based on anything your partner is actually doing. The idea that if a relationship is right / compatible it's easy, in my mind, actually means a couple things, neither of which = no work. The first is that the hormones and high of the very beginning make it feel like it's not work, but that only gets you to a fantasy bonding stage and not to a real connection and knowing someone well. Getting past that, really learning someone and having a deeper connection, still takes time, openness, vulnerability. The second is, the easiness is due to open communication, honesty, and consistency -- you know where you stand with the other person, and there's no game-playing or confusion. Neither of you are engaged with projecting instead of seeing the other person for who they are, and you have the space to really gauge compatibility and decide if you two like each other without all the attachment layers making the relationship seem rough and complicated and "almost" there if we could just do x, y, and z (seeing the potential instead of the relationship). Neither of those are no work, but it's not the confusing and overwhelming work that happens when two insecure style people are trying to make a go of it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 23:14:09 GMT
What do you mean when you write "work" ? Good question. I'm an introvert and getting to know most people with small talk is draining to me. Going on dates with men I don't like (yet) is draining to me. I don't have any motivation to go on dates. From what I understand, dopamine is a motivator, which can stem from attraction, but I am rarely attracted to someone, so when I lack an interest, trying to get to know someone is work to me. mmmmmmm. i don't like small talk either, super boring and tedious for me. The catch 22 is if you don't go out with them enough, you don't have enough information to like them but if you don't like them enough, you don't go out with them. I give everyone 1-3 chances, and during those times, i keep a curious open mind and avoid small talk. I treat it as some form of social interaction to keep my "adulting" going. too easy for academics to just avoid normal human interactions and become cray-cray. have you ever detailed what you want in a relationship/partner? Perhaps operationalizing your definition of what a happy relationship/attractive partner is makes it easier to assess interest that is based more on a grounded approach, rather than rely on interest being on attraction. Also, having operationalize that WILL automatically reduce your viable options, but you'll feel ok about it because you are following a pre-defined standards rather than second guess yourself if your "interest" is wonky. |
|
|
|
Post by amber on Dec 29, 2019 0:06:06 GMT
I don’t think there is a clear answer for this...I have had different experiences with attraction with each of my long term relationships ships. My first boyfriend and I were friends for six months before we got together and I was not remotely interested in him before we got together. Second partner was almost instant attraction, but then the second date I went off him, decided to give him another chance and the attraction was back. Third partner I met at a festival. Initially no attraction, then kept bumping into each other and slowly noticed attraction building. He pursued me hard but if he hadn’t I probably would have let it go.
I do think you can have a slow burn with someone over time, and I think that might actually be healthier. Have u though of joining clubs or groups where you get to know people over time rather than say,internet dating?
Also small talk is boring but a necessary part of getting to know someone, you just have to sux it up
|
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Dec 29, 2019 3:48:16 GMT
So, the first guy texted and told me he is looking forward to next week. I am assuming he means some imaginary date that he has not specifically asked me on and that I have not agreed to. If I have FA tendencies in the inconsistent sense, it is this...I have a desire to find a partner and because I feel I am impossible, I try to be open, and so this keeps me from telling this guy no. Yet I really just want to tell him no because I have little motivation in this specific situation to tell him yes. @janedoe - That presumption on his part could annoy me if I wasn’t already in to him. I’d probably text back- “Why are you looking forward to next week?” Make him spell it out for you. I like when a guy can be direct and set up the date. Take some initiative or I’m probably out at the starting gate. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 9:43:55 GMT
mmmmmmm. i don't like small talk either, super boring and tedious for me. The catch 22 is if you don't go out with them enough, you don't have enough information to like them but if you don't like them enough, you don't go out with them. I give everyone 1-3 chances, and during those times, i keep a curious open mind and avoid small talk. I treat it as some form of social interaction to keep my "adulting" going. too easy for academics to just avoid normal human interactions and become cray-cray. have you ever detailed what you want in a relationship/partner? Perhaps operationalizing your definition of what a happy relationship/attractive partner is makes it easier to assess interest that is based more on a grounded approach, rather than rely on interest being on attraction. Also, having operationalize that WILL automatically reduce your viable options, but you'll feel ok about it because you are following a pre-defined standards rather than second guess yourself if your "interest" is wonky. I try to keep an open mind. But I am never wrong as far as NOT finding someone interesting...if I don't find them interesting within a few exchanges, they never get any more interesting. I sense a lot of men want a companion to DO stuff with. Which is nice and all, but I want someone I can sit and do nothing with and enjoy their company. I.e. the conversation is good. I notice patterns. If someone says something like "well I don't want to talk too much before our first date because we'll have nothing to talk about!" I am out because IMO, conversation should never run (too) dry. If you're afraid we are going to run out of conversation by date 1, how will we make it the rest of our lives??? I actually have detailed what I want in someone. I don't want to get into long lists because I think that dehumanizes people, but I try to have a simple(r) idea. I have five broad characteristics, traits I am looking for in someone. This includes a couple of major compatibility pieces as well as what attracts me. When I say attraction, I know very specifically what that means to me. A lot of people are looking for the "spark" or "chemistry" and see it as some magical undefinable concept. I highly disagree with this. If each person looks at his/her patterns, they can easily see what causes that spark...i.e. what they are attracted to. Attraction for me is rarely based in looks but certain personality traits. What has happened is exactly what you said in that my options have been highly reduced, so as a result, if a guy has a few key compatibly traits, I TRY to give him a chance even if he does not seem to have the personality pieces I'm attracted to. And this is why I am often bored. I guess what I'm trying to get at is do I continue to keep trying to find a partner from that much smaller pool or do I try to be open and expand and maybe someone will surprise me? It's always possible for the surprise, but I analyze my actions and how I feel so much that I don't see myself being surprised, yet I try to be open. Also, is any of this rooted in anything unhealthy? I know we have discussed this before as far as intellectuals and sapios and how there can be a correlation between that an unhealthiness, but I don't think it HAS to be that way. I want to say I can find those traits in someone healthy. I don't believe it is the traits themselves that are unhealthy. But that's why I'm seeing if anyone has any ideas on this that I haven't thought of. I appreciate your thoughts on this. We seem to relate a lot on this front. seems like we do relate alot on this front! I think you're very right in that alot of people are looking for someone to DO things with, and evaluate me first and foremost as "their girlfriend potential" rather than me as "an individual as is"; both happen simultaneously of course but if the former is overly focused on, it's a huge turn off for me, because then I'm always seen as what I can do for them, rather than who I am to them. slight nuance, but very important. anyone who does not truly understand/practice that, even if they say they do, I am out immediately. I don't have an answer for whatever you're asking, but I think that if you are evaluating from a neutral place of calm and contentment, it is absolutely ok. One thing though is that I think it's key that you are open to what and how that 5 traits might manifest. I had often thought that "authentic" looked a certain way, but i found in my partner that he demonstrated it quite differently from what I had thought. So perhaps, reflecting on your implicit assumptions of how those traits might look like can help you expand your pool without compromising on your criteria. FWIW, my current partner was a "surprise". he wasn't someone I would have been interested in usually, but talking and hanging out overtime demonstrated more and more compatibility. My latest "dating strategy" was that I will remain absolutely neutral/disinterested until the other party signals other wise. He chatted with me consistently, and was able to keep a conversation, which kept me responding though I stayed uninterested in going beyond what we were already doing. We went out for a couple of times and were evaluating each other as individuals/partners, though we remained relatively neutral/calm. There wasn't any butterflies in the stomach or excitement or anything like that that would have signaled strong interest to me. That said, I honestly believe that the dating would have died out if we had not experienced a traumatic accident together (one of our early dates) and saw how each other reacted in times of stress and chaos. I think that played a pivotal role in our interest, evaluations and decision to be together. Lol I hope you don't have to get into an accident to determine interest!!! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 9:46:05 GMT
So, the first guy texted and told me he is looking forward to next week. I am assuming he means some imaginary date that he has not specifically asked me on and that I have not agreed to. If I have FA tendencies in the inconsistent sense, it is this...I have a desire to find a partner and because I feel I am impossible, I try to be open, and so this keeps me from telling this guy no. Yet I really just want to tell him no because I have little motivation in this specific situation to tell him yes. i would just not respond since there's no question. being ambiguous like this is highly annoying if I am not sure what his intentions/response will be. he could just be looking forward to his week (w/o you) or he is implying a date to which if you agreed to, he does not risk losing face, or if you rejected him, he might just turn around and say there wasn't a date in the first place so you were presumptuous. I treated every question I asked like an exam I grade. If the answer was not 100% clear, marks are deducted and the question is considered unanswered. one chance can be given to clarify. no more than that. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 12, 2020 22:48:50 GMT
@janedoe, yeah, I think that's a potential red flag. Pride in "training" an unwitting adult (like, not an intentional learner) = savior complex + bad communication + passive aggressive.
It's not great on your end that you've been looking for red flags from the beginning because you're approaching with distrust (though I know you've also been thinking through that you've been doing that), but in giving it a chance and hearing about his dynamic with his ex-wife, that seems like a legit concern.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Jan 12, 2020 23:22:16 GMT
“I trained her”. I can’t believe someone would think that let alone say it.
Goodbye! Don’t let the door hit you on the backside as you leave!
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 13, 2020 0:02:22 GMT
@janedoe, so far it just sounds like he's insecure. Anyone training anyone who hasn't asked for it, especially without communicating the need and instead using training to teach, is insecure (whether AP or a narcissist or just a control freak, I stand by the umbrella statement insecure). In that context, especially since you said he wasn't communicating directly about wanting to see you and you letting some time pass between responses, I'd say he was making a big deal about his hobby to show you he has a life -- so YOU think he's not so interested. Ie playing it cool.
Unless someone is trying you neg you because they think it'll make you chase, someone comfortable with themselves wouldn't position "I have hobbies more important than you" on a first date. That screams he's insecure about himself to me and is trying to make himself appear like he's busy and has a life because he's actually clingy.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Jan 13, 2020 5:09:39 GMT
That doesn’t make this person any more appealing to me. Red flags, and the behaviour will follow. Being aware of this stuff is amazing. Life changing.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 13, 2020 5:14:48 GMT
That doesn’t make this person any more appealing to me. Red flags, and the behaviour will follow. Being aware of this stuff is amazing. Life changing. Oh, it definitely sounds (potentially / likely) terrible. I'm not into any of those red flags I listed  |
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Jan 13, 2020 5:34:26 GMT
It goes to show that the behaviours these signs indicate are not far under the surface. Having said that, mine are probably just as unpalatable to others as well, hence me wheeling out the “I never wish to cohabitate” as soon as it’s right. Some will see that as distancing immediately. I have to put it out there though. I need to see the response. They need to see my red flag.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 13, 2020 6:15:04 GMT
I don't think stating upfront what is really a deal breaking for you is distancing or a red flag. I mean, someone can find it a red flag you never want to live with someone, but someone can also find it a red flag if you'd never be open to getting a dog or cat. An actual red flag, versus just a lifestyle deal-breaker, is inconsistency, actions not meeting words, being controlling, having boundary problems, fear of commitment, etc. etc....
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Jan 13, 2020 6:49:16 GMT
The really bad relationship I had...he expressed in frustration at one point that I needed to let my feelings out. He thought I was holding them back. I wasn't. Some people assume just because you don't want what they want or feel how they feel, that you are scared or distancing, etc. That’s right. That’s what I see in this forum. A lot. In mourning for @inmourning sometimes! |
|
