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Post by aislingt on Feb 8, 2020 21:56:38 GMT
I've been reading and reflecting on attachment theory, and my own attachment insecurities, for almost three years now. (Also reading these forums; I am very grateful to you guys.) And I've taken several attachment tests, at different times. According to these tests, and to my judgement, I was FA with my mother (who died 7 years ago); I am DA with my father - strongly so since my mother died and he lives with my family. I can be AP when in love with a DA or FA - moderate in behaviour but extreme in emotional reactions. And I'm secure with friends and in romantic relationships with partners who don't trigger my fear of abandonment.
Does anybody have a hunch what my attachment style could be, or how to go about figuring this out? Can I find out in any other way than with the help of a therapist trained in attachment theory? And, most importantly, is it important to figure this out rather than attend to my patchwork of insecurities bit by bit as it were?
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Post by alexandra on Feb 8, 2020 22:47:26 GMT
I've been reading and reflecting on attachment theory, and my own attachment insecurities, for almost three years now. (Also reading these forums; I am very grateful to you guys.) And I've taken several attachment tests, at different times. According to these tests, and to my judgement, I was FA with my mother (who died 7 years ago); I am DA with my father - strongly so since my mother died and he lives with my family. I can be AP when in love with a DA or FA - moderate in behaviour but extreme in emotional reactions. And I'm secure with friends and in romantic relationships with partners who don't trigger my fear of abandonment. Does anybody have a hunch what my attachment style could be, or how to go about figuring this out? Can I find out in any other way than with the help of a therapist trained in attachment theory? And, most importantly, is it important to figure this out rather than attend to my patchwork of insecurities bit by bit as it were? This sounds FA. If you take the Poole-Heller attachment test dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/ that shows you your composition of all attachment styles in %, dominant FA will come out as about equal quarters for each style, +/- 5%. So, let's say an example might be 23% FA, 28% AP 21% DA 28% secure. This would mean you're an anxious-leaning FA. You'd probably be prone to chasing people more avoidant than you romantically, and exhibiting anxious behavior (looking AP) as a result. But you'd shut down and get more avoidant if you dated people more secure or more anxious than you. You're overall avoidant with your parents, because of their behavior which led to you developing an FA style. And you're secure with friends and people who don't trigger you because they're not overwhelming your nervous system. As best I can tell, a secure person would come out around 60-65+% secure. An AP would have less than 60% secure and a majority of the rest in AP. DA same, but majority of the rest in DA instead of AP. (So, for another made up example, DA could be 33% DA 10% AP 12% FA 45% secure). I personally do think it's important to get the overall style right because they all are caused by different types of trauma and all require different approaches to heal. Because, using avoidance/anxiety in attachment theory terms, higher avoidance correlates to higher distrust of others, and higher anxiety correlates to higher distrust of self. Avoidants have a conscious fear of engulfment and a subconscious fear of abandonment. Anxious attachers have a conscious fear of abandonment and a subconscious fear of engulfment. A nervous system overwhelm --> shuts down (deactivation). AP nervous system overwhelm --> flooded (triggered rumination). FA depends on the source of the trigger. Insecure attachment styles are a defense mechanism to allow you to survive childhood. It is a very common set of coping mechanisms that get programmed into your nervous system, but you don't grow out of it as an adult without awareness and deliberate reprogramming -- even though it no longer serves you. DA generally experienced neglect as kids, blamed themselves, learned severe distrust of others, and just shut down to numb the pain and rejection so they could continue on. AP generally experienced emotional abuse through inconsistency, blamed themselves, learned from receiving only conditional love that others made the decisions about who was worthy of loving treatment when, and took away that emotions are externally regulated by other people not by self so you need to try to control others to regulate and keep your emotions from spinning out. FA generally experienced disorganized chaos and scary, unpredictable relating (often with unhealthy enmeshment, possibly with physical and/or sexual abuse), blamed themselves, and had no way of emotionally regulating themselves so they distrust both self AND others. They need external validation but get overwhelmed by closeness because they never had the opportunity to form strong and stable identities. They actually often disconnected from themselves to avoid pain, and stuffed everything down to hide. This got replaced by people pleasing or a false persona, and it got so ingrained that as an adult, the person truly thinks the false disconnected self is who they are, yet feels chaos and discontent inside but doesn't know why or how to fix it. If you are FA, you may need to do several things: understand, confront, and heal childhood trauma. Get to know who you really are and reconnect with yourself, building self-esteem, self-acceptance, trust in self, a solid identity and sense of self. Identify when you're triggered either anxious or avoidant and learn how to self-regulate emotions without relying on external validation. Learn solid boundaries, so that you have a healthy sense of self and can be comfortable both with independence and interdependence with other human beings. Learn healthier coping mechanisms and recognizing if you're disassociating and shutting down to avoid something. And learning how to stop rumination in anxious times (possibly CBT therapy). Model out what a healthy and secure, stable, functional, mature connection actually looks like (which can be done with any good therapist). Learn how to directly communicate needs. It isn't easy, but it's doable with full internally-driven motivation and commitment. You don't necessarily need an attachment therapist, though they may best understand how to help you and give you the tools you need. But it could be trying a few therapies, such as CBT I mentioned or somatic therapy to help with the trauma stuck in your body. I know it's possible to earn secure because I did it with my AP, though I took a different journey since AP is correcting different issues than FA. But I've written about what worked for me as AP in other threads. There's also research that shows that, over a lifetime, 25% of people shift attachment styles. You're not stuck in them if you choose not to be. Hope this helps
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Post by aislingt on Feb 8, 2020 23:43:44 GMT
Wow, thank you alexandra! This is fascinating, and it rings true in some ways. I know I'm not a DA. The AP is harder to figure out: there was emotional abuse in my childhood, and inconsistency - but also a love from my parents that I perceived as unconditional at a deep level. And there was some physical abuse and enmeshment, plus my mom was really scary when she was losing her temper or when she was depressed. So maybe you're right about the FA.
Yet, there are some bits of the FA that don't fit my profile - and I've been tossing these in my head for a long time, now. First, I'm never overwhelmed by closeness/intimacy, although I can get overwhelmed by fear of abandonment, and irritated/suspicious when I feel that someone is trying to manipulate me. Then, I don't dissociate from pain - instead, I go through hell until I am so tired and bored with the suffering that I feel able to leave behind unhappy relationships. (Even those where I got addicted, for instance due to intermittent reinforcement.)
Finally, my default is to be trustful of both others and myself. When I'm triggered, it's not distrust/fear of others or myself that I feel. When I am triggered I feel annihilation - it's as if I have already died or I will die imminently and nothing exists anymore. For many years I thought that was depression, but I recently realised it may be something else, something terrifying that it has ruled my life, making me keep constantly busy with projects, reading, learning, more recently over-working, falling in love, traveling, doing anything to avoid it. I also came to suspect it has to do with the fact that right after I was born I spent some time - I think between one and two weeks - starving. (My mother couldn't breastfeed, and I was allergic to the formula prescribed by the pediatrician.) In addition, my parents subscribed to the view that kids should sleep in their own room from day 1, not go to them if they cry at night etc. (Sounds crazy! But it was very widespread in the 70's in middle class circles.) Now I believe I'm occasionally regressing to those nights that must have been pretty traumatic. But I'm genuinely unsure whether that trauma is best understood as a cause of *attachment* issues. After that episode, I don't think I ever had to confront neglect as a child - but, rather, abuse, enmeshment, manipulation etc.
Again, thank you for your generous message. It's a lot to think about.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2020 8:34:21 GMT
Yet, there are some bits of the FA that don't fit my profile - and I've been tossing these in my head for a long time, now. First, I'm never overwhelmed by closeness/intimacy, although I can get overwhelmed by fear of abandonment, and irritated/suspicious when I feel that someone is trying to manipulate me. Then, I don't dissociate from pain - instead, I go through hell until I am so tired and bored with the suffering that I feel able to leave behind unhappy relationships. (Even those where I got addicted, for instance due to intermittent reinforcement.) Have you ever dated someone more anxious than you are? Sometimes, if someone with an anxious or avoidant lean to their FA has only dated a similar type of partner, they may not have experienced or noticed their swing to the other extreme. For example, mrob who is FA has recently mentioned he's dating partners for the first time who make him swing anxious instead of avoidant, and it feels like a whole different experience. Enmeshment very frequently produces an FA overall outcome, though it's possible it creates AP. Since you mention "scary, terrifying, abuse, enmeshment, and manipulation," I'm still inclined to think FA as those are all associated. However, trauma doesn't necessarily only cause insecure attachment issues. There can be other issues comorbid. Have you ever been to a therapist to see if you have PTSD or something else? I feel like your description of the intense kind of collapsing of your world during triggering must track back to some condition or abuse response... it seems specific enough that it would. It's just out of my scope of expertise.
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Post by aislingt on Feb 9, 2020 9:17:47 GMT
No, I don't think I ever dated someone more anxious than I am. I dated DAs and FAs. My husband, with whom I've been for 20 years is, I suspect, mostly secure with some DA leanings. I had a long-term friendship with a highly anxious woman and her anxiety made it hard to be close; but no, I don't know how it is to be romantically attached to someone anxious.
It's funny, last night after reading your reply I took another test, and came up 48% secure, 29% AP and about 11% DA and FA. So maybe I am AP after all, except that I recognise lots of FA traits too - I need my space, a lot of solitude and independence (of course I wouldn't cope with an AP partner for long!) and my ideal of cohabitation is something like Natalie Barney's and Romain Brook's model: a house made of two separate wings joined by a common living room. Plus I can feel, within the interval of a few hours, that I am happy and grateful to be with my partner and that I made a huge mistake and I should find a way to leave him. What a mess.
You are right that I should see a therapist who can work with trauma. I once considered the possibility of having PTST, it was at a time when I was triggered in the way I described above, and a friend who's a professional psychotherapist told me it would be exaggerated to be traumatised by the bad stuff that was going on in my life at that moment. Now I know that most of my feelings were not in response to the events at the time, but the old underlying stuff.
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Post by aislingt on Feb 9, 2020 9:32:59 GMT
I know it's possible to earn secure because I did it with my AP, though I took a different journey since AP is correcting different issues than FA. But I've written about what worked for me as AP in other threads. alexandra, do you know what are these threads? And am I right to remember you did this without therapy? I think I should find a therapist for myself, but this will be hard because (a) I live in a country whose language I don't speak well enough for talk therapy, so I'll need someone with good English and (b) I work in a different country than the one where I live, and have a child, which means I'm constantly struggling to organise my life. So I'm very interested in what I could do while I find a therapy that works for me.
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Post by anne12 on Feb 9, 2020 9:57:05 GMT
aislingt If you haven't read this yet, you can try to check this list with traits. We often do not only have one attatchment style, as you already know. Maybe one or two are more dominant than others. If you've got some chok-trauma /some desorganised attatchment style it is recommended that your therapist works with this part first of all. (The instinctive level fight/flight/freeze responses) And then parts that are avoidant or ambivalent afterwards. There's a lot of attatchment/SE trauma therapist's who offers Skype sessions around the world. jebkinnison.boards.net/thread/1188/attatchment-style-decription-relying-thetests
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Post by aislingt on Feb 9, 2020 10:05:39 GMT
There's a lot of attatchment/SE trauma therapist's who offers Skype sessions around the world. Thanks for the link, anne12! Yes, I considered skype sessions. I am reluctant because *so* much of my life already takes place in the virtual space. I am unhappy about this, and crave more "real life" interactions. But it may be the only/best solution for me. Does therapy on Skype really work? Are there accounts of this around?
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Post by anne12 on Feb 9, 2020 10:36:45 GMT
aislingt Yes, skype sessions works. Maybe you can combine them with some gentle supportive (SE) touch therapy. ? (Someone called flic had some SE touch therapy as far as I can remember) Try to read some of imournings/sherry's threads... Maybe there are more people who had Skype sessions on this board. (I know some SE/attatchment therapists in my own country who offers Skype sessions and it works)
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Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2020 18:21:46 GMT
alexandra, do you know what are these threads? And am I right to remember you did this without therapy? I think I should find a therapist for myself, but this will be hard because (a) I live in a country whose language I don't speak well enough for talk therapy, so I'll need someone with good English and (b) I work in a different country than the one where I live, and have a child, which means I'm constantly struggling to organise my life. So I'm very interested in what I could do while I find a therapy that works for me. Here are the threads I wrote about it in: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1262/attachment-style-self-help-suggestions jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1559/anxious-susceptibilities I did it without a therapist, that's correct, and I talk a bit about that but wouldn't necessarily recommend trying that. A bunch of factors aligned for me that allowed me to do a lot of hard work through it when I was very self-motivated to do so and couldn't find the resources, but if I already had a starting point and a name for my issue (like you do, but I didn't understand about attachment theory yet), I believe it would have been way faster if I had the right therapist. Yes, I agree your results are coming out to dominant AP style, so if that's accurate then a theory is you may have AP + other issues such as possible PTSD or something else, and that's why your behaviors are a little more avoidant and less typically patterned. And a few members have started SE therapy on the board and are seeing good results, including tnr9.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 9, 2020 18:51:31 GMT
alexandra , do you know what are these threads? And am I right to remember you did this without therapy? I think I should find a therapist for myself, but this will be hard because (a) I live in a country whose language I don't speak well enough for talk therapy, so I'll need someone with good English and (b) I work in a different country than the one where I live, and have a child, which means I'm constantly struggling to organise my life. So I'm very interested in what I could do while I find a therapy that works for me. Here are the threads I wrote about it in: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1262/attachment-style-self-help-suggestions jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1559/anxious-susceptibilities I did it without a therapist, that's correct, and I talk a bit about that but wouldn't necessarily recommend trying that. A bunch of factors aligned for me that allowed me to do a lot of hard work through it when I was very self-motivated to do so and couldn't find the resources, but if I already had a starting point and a name for my issue (like you do, but I didn't understand about attachment theory yet), I believe it would have been way faster if I had the right therapist. Yes, I agree your results are coming out to dominant AP style, so if that's accurate then a theory is you may have AP + other issues such as possible PTSD or something else, and that's why your behaviors are a little more avoidant and less typically patterned. And a few members have started SE therapy on the board and are seeing good results, including tnr9 . SE is a really fantastic way to get to the root of some insecure behaviors by allowing the body to reveal what perhaps is suppressed from consciousness. For instance, what my therapist and I have uncovered is that I get a tightness in my throat whenever I feel like I truly cannot speak about my needs. I automatically cry if I think I will disappoint someone. We also have uncovered that there was a time when I was truly happy...as evident in early photos...but that changed around the time my parents divorced.
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Post by serenity on Feb 9, 2020 21:06:04 GMT
Perhaps look for information on Complex PTSD? (C-PTSD) It was a good eye opener for me personally and helped me make sense of a lot of things. I think there are good internet resources for this, as well as books.
C-PTSD often gets associated with FA attachment style, because you have abandonment triggers, and also a bunch of other triggers than can make you feel smothered and invaded. The typical avoidant who runs from intimacy has `engulfment' triggers, but C-PTSD triggers can be specific to you and your upbringing. Sounds like specific forms of control and invasiveness might be yours?
I can attach to all kinds of people, but I do really well in long term relationships with caring guys who communicate well, and negotiate rather than control, manipulate and criticise.
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Post by aislingt on Feb 10, 2020 20:43:52 GMT
Many thanks everybody - lots of helpful things! I'll consider SE therapy, and read up on (C-)PTSD.
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