Are all Dismissive also Narcissistic?

Yes, lack of empathy!! I completely agree with everyone else here. The defensiveness, the inability to hold themselves accountable, and the shifting of blame all point to some crazy-making behaviors... I think someone said this, but having narcissistic traits is not the same as having NPD, so I personally would never say DAs are narcissists. People with NPD are highly manipulative and can't feel anything for anyone else bc of the massive amounts of toxic shame they're carrying around (disclaimer: I'm no expert!!); they secure relationships in order to get supply/self-esteem. DAs don't do this. I think DAs do care and are capable of love, but go into self-preservation mode whenever someone gets too close and activates their alarm bells that say "run!" The narcissistic stuff comes in whenever they're feeling overwhelmed by their insecure attachment system. With narcissists, it's a whole other thing-they get into relationships bc they need supply, not bc they have a desire for connection. I know some people would say DAs don't care abt connection, but their nervous systems give them away: they're highly stressed abt being away from their partners, and do crave connection, it's just that their fear centers in their brains went a lil wonky bc of attachment injuries so they're not CONSCIOUS of their attachment. NPDs: no way!!

I heard that every woman attract the same kind of guys: NPDs, Das, FAs, A~Ps, Secures...

The difference is: Truly healthy women run a mile when they experience something that does't quite feel right: no sugar coating, no second chances, no excuses...

Any ideas on what we should look for, red flags to heed when in a dating situation? Since our confidence in our intuition might be a little week and we tend to brush bad behaviour under the carpet for whatever reason...mine is: I will never find somebody else as good as him...(is the scarcity mentality)

I am separated and finalizing my divorce with my ex who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), and have met from an online site a really good, accomplished man whom I'm sure is a twice-divorced Avoidant, possibly Fearful-Avoidant. I would say that all Narcissists are Dismissive-Avoidant, but Avoidants are not necessarily Narcissists. There are distinct differences I can tell - the Avoidant behaves normally with everyone in his life (not without flaws, but normal enough) except his lover, even including his exes, has some ability to be self-aware, and generally doesn't get easily triggered, but instead shuts down/off when he feels too close to you. Strangely, his closeness with his siblings and children is unaffected by the disorder. With a person with NPD, the roller coaster ride is alot of pain and trauma, because he would try to lash out and hurt you. He is a bully in the fullest sense of the word. You end up damaged badly by the pwNPD, but not necessarily the Avoidants.

Neither will make for fulfilling long-term partnerships, and it is better to be alone than to exhaust one's waking hours coping and coping. Please put yourself first, and not the partners with disorders. They certainly put themselves first, as they lack the ability to empathize enough to feel for their partners, especially their sense of despair dealing with distancing and deactivating strategies. We all have this fantasy that they will "come to their senses", but it isn't true for the majority. So we are throwing our precious emotional investments at junk bonding. It is almost certainly a loss. They have to want to change on their own initiative, nothing we say or do will make a difference even though we tell ourselves that we make a difference. It is in the end our own delusion as even if they recognize it, they might not be able to do anything about it, the way an alcoholic remains one even though he or she knows about the problem. As someone mentioned, praise them, bless them, let them go.

I am slowly recovering from the short but sweet relationship with the Avoidant, it hasn't been easy, but we will all get there! Good luck on your journey forward. I'm glad to find a supportive forum that is kind to both Avoidants and their partners. Thank you.

Wow....yours sounds like a handful too! For all the disorders, there's always a spectrum ranging from Mild to Severe. Your description is spot-on for quite a number of traits for NPD, though missing others. Aside from all the traits you listed, my ex was gaslighting me as well as projecting and blaming me for all the ills that had happened. Reality with him is an ever shifting terrain, never anchored on facts. Better his own lies than other people's truths. He is never wrong and I was never right. Heads he wins tails I lose. He is also so thirsty for admiration and adoration he would talk enthusiastically for hours on end with strangers, while he completely shut down with me and showed disdain and contempt towards me and everything i say or do. His perpetual expression is eye-rolling, as if he is suffering just being in my presence .

The DA/FA I met 8 months ago has some narcissistic traits too, but he isn't picking on others, but more of a Napoleon complex. Oh my, what charming dudes we got ourselves into...

I find it more difficult to give up on this one because he does have traits I like, has a heart, trying to be giving and generous but in a frugal, almost stingy way, he tries to stand up for me in situations and he is quite intelligent.

DearLover, the best antidote I have for you is to laugh really hard at the absurdities you listed - sorry to say, he might have his attractions but your fella's a Big Petulant Baby.

We've got to remind ourselves we're fortunate that we're the sane, normal ones here, and deserve men who will do the right thing. Everytime a crazy relationship ends, I make sure I take better care of myself, constantly check my own internal states so that I can rapidly change my train of thoughts. We *will* move on, it's a matter of time. The harder we work at it, the faster moving on will take place.

I'm still pining for this DA/FA, I broke up 2 days before his birthday, so I think he won't easily forgive me this time (broke up 2 months ago but he got back with me), but I wanted him to receive the news while surrounded by his loved ones, children and siblings, he will receive comfort from them. Both of us doing No Contact now, waiting for time to do its work.

Meanwhile, remind yourself that you have from now until the last day of your life to meet the right one, the normal, funny, caring, intelligent, handsome man you were meant to meet. If you don't get these wrong ones out of your precious MindSpace, you won't have emotional space for that great guy.


Thank you so much Curious. I have been feeling much better, I know it is a matter of time until all the lessons sink and I break free.
Deep in my heart, I know my exAD is just that. He did show some small signs of passive-agressiviness, yes, only twice or so :/  . I worked with that.
All of the other stuff is just unmanaged ego, insecurity, childhood scars, victim mentality and clumsiness. I believe in his heart and wish him all the love in the world. We are very different from each other and I really hope I made a positive impact somehow and our relationship had a deeper meaning for both of us moving forward.

The real NPD was really the first ex husband, that was craziness and bullying in the worse sense, but it was long time ago, and too much to write anyway, I have moved on pretty well but took me absolutely ages.


Yes, break ups, no contact, healing time etc provide the amazing opportunity for self development. Since we broke up 11 days ago and are doing no contact, I have done so much stuff and learned so many new things, and have a new bucket list for things that I still want to do and I am discovering a whole new me! My perspective about myself, who I am, what I want etc has grown so much and I am feeling accomplished and excited about the future.
Yes there has been a lot of tears but that is good too. I have the tendency to hold back on crying and this is a toxic unhealthy way of dealing with feelings, I am just letting it all out now.