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Post by seeking on Apr 8, 2020 12:41:58 GMT
I'm reading Jeb's book and identifying with parts of SA (when in R with the right person) and identifying most with anxious-pre-occupied, as I've been with a lot of avoidants. But my last long relationship was with someone who was super AP and I think I turned dismissive-avoidant (or maybe fearful) - is that possible? I guess he says so in the book. Anyway, I think I'm now with someone (just dating) who is FA. He was on a dating site. Wants a relationship, etc. But his history (never actually married, spent 7 years with someone who cheated, said "you know how it gets after 7 years"  ), said there's "a lot of needy people" on online dating, needs his alone time. He was pursuing me, but he's hard to read - Then I said *one* thing to him and he immediately ended it! (I think I said "Sometimes you can seem like 2 different people - a very AP comment). He was like "Oh I can take feedback, no problem. But right now I'm not in a position to date. I have a lot going on. Best of luck." And I was like, 'Huh? Hold on a minute here." I called him and we got things back on track (he said he thinks we're "compatible") Anyway, texted a bunch more and set up a zoom call for last Saturday and we talked for 90 minutes. I told him more about myself and afterwards I got a huge hit of intuition - a) he is seeing me as a single mom who wants someone to help pay the bills (he's financially secure, but I have no child support coming in and get some rental assistance, but am otherwise supporting us). Or he's just doing some kind of push pull thing. I haven't heard from him since Saturday. He lives alone. He works. That's that. Unless something major happened, why wouldn't he text me? It's Wednesday. I've been *pre-occupied* with it - furious (inner child -dad stuff, not really at this guy). And wondering - Would an SA leave this guy? Would an SA think nothing of this? Or just simply reach out to him? I'm waiting to see when he writes to me b/c I'm observing his behavior as we're only dating and this much space just doesn't work for me. I don't think that's an AP thing, I think it's just a too much space thing. But maybe at this stage, what's there to say? We are in lockdown. There is no end to lockdown in site. But I feel like with someone SA, who wants intimacy, there could still be progress (just like a long-distance relationship) in this current circumstance. |
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Post by annieb on Apr 8, 2020 14:56:30 GMT
I'm reading Jeb's book and identifying with parts of SA (when in R with the right person) and identifying most with anxious-pre-occupied, as I've been with a lot of avoidants. But my last long relationship was with someone who was super AP and I think I turned dismissive-avoidant (or maybe fearful) - is that possible? I guess he says so in the book. Anyway, I think I'm now with someone (just dating) who is FA. He was on a dating site. Wants a relationship, etc. But his history (never actually married, spent 7 years with someone who cheated, said "you know how it gets after 7 years" ), said there's "a lot of needy people" on online dating, needs his alone time. He was pursuing me, but he's hard to read - Then I said *one* thing to him and he immediately ended it! (I think I said "Sometimes you can seem like 2 different people - a very AP comment). He was like "Oh I can take feedback, no problem. But right now I'm not in a position to date. I have a lot going on. Best of luck." And I was like, 'Huh? Hold on a minute here." I called him and we got things back on track (he said he thinks we're "compatible") Anyway, texted a bunch more and set up a zoom call for last Saturday and we talked for 90 minutes. I told him more about myself and afterwards I got a huge hit of intuition - a) he is seeing me as a single mom who wants someone to help pay the bills (he's financially secure, but I have no child support coming in and get some rental assistance, but am otherwise supporting us). Or he's just doing some kind of push pull thing. I haven't heard from him since Saturday. He lives alone. He works. That's that. Unless something major happened, why wouldn't he text me? It's Wednesday. I've been *pre-occupied* with it - furious (inner child -dad stuff, not really at this guy). And wondering - Would an SA leave this guy? Would an SA think nothing of this? Or just simply reach out to him? I'm waiting to see when he writes to me b/c I'm observing his behavior as we're only dating and this much space just doesn't work for me. I don't think that's an AP thing, I think it's just a too much space thing. But maybe at this stage, what's there to say? We are in lockdown. There is no end to lockdown in site. But I feel like with someone SA, who wants intimacy, there could still be progress (just like a long-distance relationship) in this current circumstance. I think an SA would not have bothered with the 90 minute zoom conference. He knew you were a single mom from day one. That’s just another distancing technique to bring that up and throw it in your face (like that’s something you could change, you can’t). An SA would not think anything of this guy and let him fade. |
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Post by seeking on Apr 8, 2020 16:58:30 GMT
"I think an SA would not have bothered with the 90 minute zoom conference. He knew you were a single mom from day one. That’s just another distancing technique to bring that up and throw it in your face (like that’s something you could change, you can’t). An SA would not think anything of this guy and let him fade.
"
Sorry if this read as a little confusing.
We had a first date. Decided to go out again. He had to travel for work for 2 weeks, and by the time he came back, we were moving into lockdown. We kept texting. And he was asking to do a phone call. I put it off (my own avoidance). Then in text, I made the comment about him seeming like 2 different people, and he made an excuse and broke it off. I called him (me pursuing) and then we got back on track. After that we did a "zoom date" (he lives 5 mi away but no chance at seeing each other right now).
I revealed more things (as did he). Yes, he already knew I'm a single mom but I think he got this impression I had money? (I have a nice house, but get rental assistance, he didn't know that til recently). I have a couple air filters (he spotted them in a pic and asked me about them - they each cost like $1k, he knew that). Then I told him on the Zoom date, I don't get child support, etc.
It *seemed* like everything went fine on the 90-min Zoom date, but how would I know? I haven't heard from him since. That was Saturday afternoon and it's Wednesday and we texted each other every day and sometimes every other day. This feels odd.
(So hopefully that's more clear).
Appreciate any thoughts/feedback!
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Post by annieb on Apr 8, 2020 17:36:12 GMT
"I think an SA would not have bothered with the 90 minute zoom conference. He knew you were a single mom from day one. That’s just another distancing technique to bring that up and throw it in your face (like that’s something you could change, you can’t). An SA would not think anything of this guy and let him fade.
"Sorry if this read as a little confusing. We had a first date. Decided to go out again. He had to travel for work for 2 weeks, and by the time he came back, we were moving into lockdown. We kept texting. And he was asking to do a phone call. I put it off (my own avoidance). Then in text, I made the comment about him seeming like 2 different people, and he made an excuse and broke it off. I called him (me pursuing) and then we got back on track. After that we did a "zoom date" (he lives 5 mi away but no chance at seeing each other right now). I revealed more things (as did he). Yes, he already knew I'm a single mom but I think he got this impression I had money? (I have a nice house, but get rental assistance, he didn't know that til recently). I have a couple air filters (he spotted them in a pic and asked me about them - they each cost like $1k, he knew that). Then I told him on the Zoom date, I don't get child support, etc. It *seemed* like everything went fine on the 90-min Zoom date, but how would I know? I haven't heard from him since. That was Saturday afternoon and it's Wednesday and we texted each other every day and sometimes every other day. This feels odd. (So hopefully that's more clear). Appreciate any thoughts/feedback! It’s pretty safe to assume in the world and today’s economy that a single parent does not have “money”. Usually it’s an exception if they do. Most people understand that. I find it quite off putting that he would bring attention to any of that, really. Or comment on your thousand dollar air filters. Why would he even comment on those? What if they were a gift? What if you got them second hand? On the second date he is supposed to woo you, not count your money. You should be put off from this guy. The fact that you tried to patch things up with someone, who broke up with you over one text in text, does say that you are trying to “fix” something that doesn’t need fixing. Let this one go. You did absolutely nothing wrong, but next time someone dismisses you like he did, don’t bother reaching out |
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Post by seeking on Apr 8, 2020 18:29:38 GMT
It’s pretty safe to assume in the world and today’s economy that a single parent does not have “money”. Usually it’s an exception if they do. Most people understand that. I find it quite off putting that he would bring attention to any of that, really. Or comment on your thousand dollar air filters. Why would he even comment on those? What if they were a gift? What if you got them second hand? On the second date he is supposed to woo you, not count your money. You should be put off from this guy. The fact that you tried to patch things up with someone, who broke up with you over one text in text, does say that you are trying to “fix” something that doesn’t need fixing. Let this one go. You did absolutely nothing wrong, but next time someone dismisses you like he did, don’t bother reaching out
Thanks for the input. It does feel pretty bad.
I guess even if a second date is on Zoom, it could still feel like a little more. I wonder if he was being reserved with me because he felt like he was being judged (after I made the comment).
The comment was maybe out of my own AP-ness though so that's why I think I made it about me, not him.
He was saying things like he is busy with work, always doing stuff, etc. etc. Then texted me things like "Well, now I guess it's time to sit in a chair for hours." Or "Maybe I'll move furniture around." Like letting me know how bored he was. And that felt like a turnoff to me. I said "Have any interests or hobbies?" And he wrote a whole list. And it was confusing! So on the one hand, you have a million things to do but you're texting me to tell me you're going to sit in a chair for hours and hours? I wrote "I hope you don't take offense to this, but sometimes you seem like two different people!" (Conflicting stuff happened on other occasions - like he was fine with the NYC mayor keeping schools open with his daughter in one of those schools - during the pandemic - this was alarming to me - then he wanted his daughter home and was worried when things got worse in NYC). Just stuff that felt conflicting - but that can also be my own anxiousness.... so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
However, just as soon as I texted that, he was like "That's fine. I'm not offended. But I have a lot going on right now so taking myself out of the dating scene." etc.
Yes, that's when my AP "chase"/panic came in. My friend saw this in me. I knew better. But I got us "back on track" - he felt we are "compatible," that felt like good feedback for my anxiety. But it was like the connection wasn't the same. And he wasn't really lighting up for me on the Zoom call. I mean, he was fine, but I wasn't feeling his interest/attraction, etc. And it could just be all that is going on in the world! I feel like I'm being sensitive!
But I'm also just using this as a learning experience, which is why I'm tearing it apart here and exploring it so appreciate the feedback. Thank you!
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Post by annieb on Apr 8, 2020 18:53:25 GMT
I think chair for hours and moving furniture he was being sarcastic, playful. He then listed all his hobbies thinking you’re just asking for fun. You the proceeded to call him two different people - you kind of got weird on him. That was too heavy after one date and some texts. He took himself out of the running and that should have been that.
I’m more concerned that you can’t seem to let go now that it’s clear that whatever this was is over.
And just to be clear, when both people are as sensitive as you both are, you just have to let some shit go. Like you don’t need to psychoanalyze him and he shouldn’t be counting your money. It’s like you both messed up, but it’s probably for the better.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 8, 2020 21:28:07 GMT
seeking, I was AP and then earned secure over a long period of time filled with hard work. Prior to that, I basically only dated other insecurely attached men (DA or FA). What I've found is, within the first month or two, if someone you're dating starts making excuses, being oddly distant without a good explanation he himself has provided (not you making assumptions and explaining behaviors away by filling in gaps), and/or ends things (or verbally tries to end things) without a strong explanation or discussion with you first about what's wrong, just drop it. Don't pursue, don't reconnect, don't chase, don't get "back on track." This is doubly true if it first happens after a date or two. You don't know the person yet, you don't know if they're emotionally stable or their quality of character. Everything is projection, and both AP and anxiously-leaning FA will project all positive qualities onto new partners they barely know. The gaps filled in by those leaning anxious are filled in with partner-is-better-than-me projections. That's part of the insecure attachment. Avoidants (DA or FA leaning avoidant instead of anxious) will often do the opposite and fill in those gaps with negative concerns to create distance, nitpick the partner, doubt their feelings for them are strong enough. I used to do what you're doing. Anyone I "got back on the right track" after an early flake out didn't work. Often, they had commitment issues and were happy to stay casual and low stress with me, but they'd stay fundamentally flaky and non-committal no matter how close we then got. This created very painful attachment situations. Now, as soon as this happens early, I recognize that: they usually have insecure attachment issues and they're bad communicators at best or self-centered at worst (making decisions without communicating any concerns to me or explaining why, just giving me a let me down easy line). This doesn't reflect on me or even on our compatibility. But it does show they'd be a bad partner to me. If you're trying to be secure, then you do a few things: you don't take things personally, you process your attachment feelings and let go if someone asks you to and they don't have both feet in for moving forward (even if they move very slowly, as long as they're still moving and you're not confused about what's going on, that's okay), you communicate directly what you want and expect the same from them (hence why things don't feel confusing), and if you're not aligned in what you both want then you let go with love and honestly move on with your life (even if you still care about them and think about them sometimes). Your gut is telling you something is off, and it sounds like it is. Very odd for him to be so stuck on money right away. Plus, he's flat out told you he's emotionally unavailable to you right now (taking himself off the market). Whether that is because of the pandemic or because there really was a miscommunication that made him lose interest, it doesn't matter. Just take him at face value and move on, or you're going to get stuck in push-pull and go no where during this hard time when you don't need someone sucking your emotional energy. Times are bad, and you need people who will be stable, solid, supportive, not someone who will be a good distraction (you can overanalyze him forever instead of thinking about your own issues!) but ultimately waste your time and energy. Push pull isn't secure or healthy. The attraction and excitement it makes you feel is actually your attachment wounds and unhealed trauma getting activated, and the overwhelm feels like passion. I gently suggested this last time I responded to you, but I suspect you are anxious-leaning FA. It sounds like when he came back from traveling, you were being distant and you yourself said it was out of avoidance. AP live for reconnection and anxiety relief so don't act out of avoidance unless they're doing it intentionally out of protest behavior. I'd drop this guy and use this scary pandemic time to reconnect with and focus on yourself, and make time to stay connected with your child(ren) and anyone else important to you. We all need support right now, and your friends and family are way more deserving of your time than this guy. I had a guy 180 on me after a ton of conversation, and a couple great dates and kisses in February, and I didn't even respond to his letting-me-down-easy nonsense. It didn't take long to feel relief that I'm not being saddled with a guy willing to just bail right as we were then going into pandemic-mode. So lucky he showed me he was unreliable so quickly!
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Post by serenity on Apr 9, 2020 10:25:22 GMT
Hi Seeking! Alexandra and Annie have given such great advice. I guess I just wanted to ask you, are there any dating sites about for parents without partners? If I was you, i'd be doing everything I could to properly screen out guys who "like you" but don't want to deal with your family situation. To be fair, its a lot for a guy to take on, and many would balk at the idea. But you don't need to be wasting time being lured into being strung along, hoping to `prove' your family is worth taking care of. You need to find men who already know they want a family, and sift through those ones only.
I have two close sisters who were in your predicament in their 20's, and they both did find good husbands eventually. One found another divorcee, who was extremely grateful to find a lovely mother for his kids. My other sister, who is very beautiful, had a lot of problems with attracting men who wanted her for sex, but didn't want her family. After a lot of heartache, She became really good at keeping men as friends until she found the right one. And he is extremely awesome! He's been my brother in law for 20 years.
Don't ever be ashamed or coy about what you really need. Don't feel like you have to `prove' yourself to be worthy of your needs. Its simple really..some guys don't want or value family, and some really do. Find those ones!
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Post by seeking on Apr 12, 2020 23:35:53 GMT
Hi Seeking! Alexandra and Annie have given such great advice.
Yes, hoping to circle back to their replies soon.
I guess I just wanted to ask you, are there any dating sites about for parents without partners? If I was you, i'd be doing everything I could to properly screen out guys who "like you" but don't want to deal with your family situation.
I don't now if there are. I'm clear about it in my ad. This guy knew I had a kid and am a single mom. One of the things that drew me to him right off, was his dedication to a child that wasn't his (he was a step dad and even though he separated from the mother, the mother moved away, and the girl went back to live with her dad - she was adopted - he still supports her in so many ways). That was honestly SUPER endearing. He also has a 4 year old (he's 57) that he traveled overseas to do IF with his partner for. It's pretty confusing!?
To be fair, its a lot for a guy to take on, and many would balk at the idea.
I wouldn't have though this one would have? (See above.) So maybe something else going on?
But you don't need to be wasting time being lured into being strung along, hoping to `prove' your family is worth taking care of. You need to find men who already know they want a family, and sift through those ones only.
That is pretty much my first filter.
I have two close sisters who were in your predicament in their 20's, and they both did find good husbands eventually. One found another divorcee, who was extremely grateful to find a lovely mother for his kids. My other sister, who is very beautiful, had a lot of problems with attracting men who wanted her for sex, but didn't want her family. After a lot of heartache, She became really good at keeping men as friends until she found the right one. And he is extremely awesome! He's been my brother in law for 20 years.
Don't ever be ashamed or coy about what you really need. Don't feel like you have to `prove' yourself to be worthy of your needs. Its simple really..some guys don't want or value family, and some really do. Find those ones!
Love this quote "Don't feel like you have to `prove' yourself to be worthy of your needs." - thank you!!
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Post by seeking on Apr 12, 2020 23:38:32 GMT
So just as an update. My second date with him on Zoom last Saturday happened. It's been a week and a day, and no word from him. There is a small chance something not great happened - his mom had just been in the hospital, etc. I told a friend and he was like, "He ghosted you?" He thinks I should write him and I was like "no way." Ghost away, dodged a bullet then.
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Post by seeking on Apr 13, 2020 1:38:55 GMT
I think chair for hours and moving furniture he was being sarcastic, playful.
Oh, I guess. I hate sarcasm with a passion. So that's prob why it didn't work for me. I take people's word. Tone doesn't really come across in test. He made several comments and they sounded more bratty - I'm a super busy single mom and haven't had 5 minutes to myself. Can you imagine how I felt hearing someone text me, not ask how I am, saying "Oh, I guess I'll just sit in a chair for hours and hours now."
Like, be a man, dude. Grow up.
By the second comment, I asked if he had hobbies. Otherwise, I was feeling myself "go away" - and I was trying to not "go away."
He then listed all his hobbies thinking you’re just asking for fun. You the proceeded to call him two different people - you kind of got weird on him.
I'm not seeing how this is "getting weird" - it was my honest response. I also didn't "call him" anything. I was apologetic and playful about it. I said "Okay, well I hope you don't mind me saying, sometimes you seem like 2 diff people."
And I said that b/c it happened a lot. He was happy the mayor of NYC was keeping the schools opened then worried about his daughter. They were like extreme responses. And I was probably being "Anxious" Or "FA" I guess, and feeling myself pull away (imagining myself with someone who says conflicting things from one minute to the next and who says he's going to sit in a chair for hours and hours and be bored) and I was a little freaking out inside, so I tried to mitigate that by just getting direct, not weird. I'm 48. He's 57. We're adults. If that was too "weird" and scared him off, lordy.
That was too heavy after one date and some texts.
Again, I'm not sure I'm seeing what was "heavy" here.
He took himself out of the running and that should have been that.
Agree, but he said that he has this thing that if he is not "adding value" then he doesn't date. And I was more like "Huh?" I didn't pull him back, I was more like "oh, okay."
-- but to your point here, I have definitely not listened to people's signals in the past, and this was one of them. It was a little - ick- that he could just let go of things that fast.
I’m more concerned that you can’t seem to let go now that it’s clear that whatever this was is over.
Oh, I've let go. It wasn't clear to me when I wrote this. It's definitely clear now.
And just to be clear, when both people are as sensitive as you both are,
Huh? lol. Not sure what this means.
you just have to let some shit go. Like you don’t need to psychoanalyze him and he shouldn’t be counting your money. It’s like you both messed up, but it’s probably for the better.
Oh, where was I psychoanalyzing? I thought I was trying to use this example, as I said in my post, to learn from it and figure out my style and his. I'm reading Jeb's book and I'm using this as an example and trying to understand?
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Post by seeking on Apr 13, 2020 18:15:13 GMT
Alexandra, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write what you did to here. It was SO helpful! Thank you!
I was AP and then earned secure over a long period of time filled with hard work.
Curious, generally, what work you did? What I've found is, within the first month or two, if someone you're dating starts making excuses, being oddly distant without a good explanation he himself has provided (not you making assumptions and explaining behaviors away by filling in gaps), and/or ends things (or verbally tries to end things) without a strong explanation or discussion with you first about what's wrong, just drop it. Don't pursue, don't reconnect, don't chase, don't get "back on track."
Yep, that was my big take-away this time. Plus, I saw huge red flags from our first date. Weirdly, thinking back, before our first date, he said "Lower your expectations." I guess that was a joke, but it was also a turn-off. Second, he was more anxious on our first date than I've ever seen anyone! And I've gone on a LOT of first dates! Last, he said something about people online being "needy" and that felt like a red flag. and both AP and anxiously-leaning FA will project all positive qualities onto new partners they barely know. Yep, I am totally guilty of this. The gaps filled in by those leaning anxious are filled in with partner-is-better-than-me projections.
I definitely caught myself doing that this time. And now that he's ghosted, his "value" went up a few points for a few minutes, haha. But I'm over that now. That's part of the insecure attachment. Avoidants (DA or FA leaning avoidant instead of anxious) will often do the opposite and fill in those gaps with negative concerns to create distance, nitpick the partner, doubt their feelings for them are strong enough.
This is interesting. I def do both. So what does SA do then? I used to do what you're doing. Anyone I "got back on the right track" after an early flake out didn't work.Yep, the worst one for me was with the father of my daughter. Man oh man. That was crazy. He had to "decided if he liked me" and all this, and was SO showing me his colors and this was back when I didn't really know better and chased him and then had a kid with him. I have PTSD still from this (he's also abusive). Often, they had commitment issues and were happy to stay casual and low stress with me, but they'd stay fundamentally flaky and non-committal no matter how close we then got. This created very painful attachment situations. Now, as soon as this happens early, I recognize that: they usually have insecure attachment issues and they're bad communicators at best or self-centered at worst (making decisions without communicating any concerns to me or explaining why, just giving me a let me down easy line). This doesn't reflect on me or even on our compatibility. But it does show they'd be a bad partner to me.
Right! This is the work for me right here. NOT MAKING THEM A GOOD PARTNER IN MY HEAD. Not fixing them. Not believing there's "no one else" - not seeing the good stuff and overlooking the bad, etc. etc. Believing that I can have what I want (even just basic stuff - respect, contact, good communication, etc) - In one of Jeb's books it was really healing for me to read that SA have healthy impulses, and the things I have wanted have been healthy - not the way ambivalent people make them out to be "needy" - etc. If you're trying to be secure, then you do a few things: you don't take things personally, you process your attachment feelings and let go if someone asks you to and they don't have both feet in for moving forward (even if they move very slowly, as long as they're still moving and you're not confused about what's going on, that's okay), you communicate directly what you want and expect the same from them (hence why things don't feel confusing), and if you're not aligned in what you both want then you let go with love and honestly move on with your life (even if you still care about them and think about them sometimes).
Love this! Good advice. A keeper for me!  Your gut is telling you something is off, and it sounds like it is. Very odd for him to be so stuck on money right away. I can't be 100% sure about the money piece. Plus, he's flat out told you he's emotionally unavailable to you right now (taking himself off the market). But this! Yes, I can be sure about this. MAN, how did I miss that. His words "When I am not adding value" translate so easly into "I'm not available" and that's when the button got pressed in me, and I was ALL OVER THAT. And my friend was with me in real-time (on the phone) when I got the text and reacted and he was like "Um, this is the part where you chase." And I knew it felt wrong in my body, but I did it anyway. The anxiety was too great. But, yeah, really helpful for me to see this now.
Whether that is because of the pandemic or because there really was a miscommunication that made him lose interest, it doesn't matter. Just take him at face value and move on, or you're going to get stuck in push-pull and go no where during this hard time when you don't need someone sucking your emotional energy. Times are bad, and you need people who will be stable, solid, supportive, not someone who will be a good distraction (you can overanalyze him forever instead of thinking about your own issues!) but ultimately waste your time and energy.
Oh, I'm definitely thinking about my own issues. That's why I'm doing this - not as a distraction. Trust me, it's plenty painful. Push pull isn't secure or healthy. The attraction and excitement it makes you feel is actually your attachment wounds and unhealed trauma getting activated, and the overwhelm feels like passion.
Thankfully, this is no longer me. Now it just feels awful and makes me anxious and unsettled. I gently suggested this last time I responded to you, but I suspect you are anxious-leaning FA. It sounds like when he came back from traveling, you were being distant and you yourself said it was out of avoidance. AP live for reconnection and anxiety relief so don't act out of avoidance unless they're doing it intentionally out of protest behavior.
Yeah, I thought I was avoidant only b/c if someone is pursuing, I can need to 'escape' - and because when he made those comments about sitting in a chair for hours and hours, I was feeling "trapped" and felt myself wanting to end it (trapped but anxious - though not anxious to connect). The times he reached out to do a phone call, I turned him down like 3 times. I wondered about that, but mostly b/c I was in bed already, or didn't feel like it, or it would have meant staying up later than I wanted - or I wasn't "in the right frame of mind" <---- I guess this is not AP behavior? I'd drop this guy and use this scary pandemic time to reconnect with and focus on yourself,
Doing that, though he dropped me. I had a guy 180 on me after a ton of conversation, and a couple great dates and kisses in February, and I didn't even respond to his letting-me-down-easy nonsense. It didn't take long to feel relief that I'm not being saddled with a guy willing to just bail right as we were then going into pandemic-mode. So lucky he showed me he was unreliable so quickly!Great for you!! And thanks again!! |
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Post by faithopelove on Apr 16, 2020 1:32:25 GMT
A secure would walk in the very beginning stages as soon as someone shows up hot/cold and inconsistent. They don’t waste their time and energy pursuing someone who isn’t showing up fir them bc a secure knows their worth. Let him go. Filtering out the bad ones early is the best way to go.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 16, 2020 2:38:30 GMT
I was AP and then earned secure over a long period of time filled with hard work.
Curious, generally, what work you did? I've written about it in some older threads: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1262/attachment-style-self-help-suggestions jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1559/anxious-susceptibilities?page=1#post-19922 and both AP and anxiously-leaning FA will project all positive qualities onto new partners they barely know.
That's part of the insecure attachment. Avoidants (DA or FA leaning avoidant instead of anxious) will often do the opposite and fill in those gaps with negative concerns to create distance, nitpick the partner, doubt their feelings for them are strong enough.
This is interesting. I def do both. So what does SA do then? Secure style people don't do anything with the gaps except approach them with neutral and open-minded curiosity, ask questions, engage in conversation as you might with anyone, and let the person tell you and show you who they are without you projecting any assumptions either positive or negative. Then, they assess if it's someone they like or want to get to know better or feel they connect with based on who the person is, currently and directly in front of them, while noting if who that person appears to be stays consistent over time. Some people are only pushed harder into their general overall attachment style by romantic partners or family members, but perhaps not friends. If you test secure with friends, how do you feel and approach that differently (and perhaps more securely) when you meet brand new people platonically? Do you excitedly project, fixate, or perhaps nitpick? Or is it calmer and simpler than your response to a potential romantic partner? If friendships unfold more organically and don't trigger you either anxious or avoidant, then you can think about a secure romantic situation unfolding similarly. It's about being excited to get to know the person better rather than relating more directly with being excited or turned off by ruminating over how they seem able to potentially meet or not meet your needs. You doing both, btw, is one of the things I've picked out that indicates you may be FA. It's not uncommon for people to believe they're AP but they're actually FA. This is because some people really gravitate towards a certain type of other person and a certain type of dynamic. It might be repeating an unfulfilling childhood relationship dynamic you're unconsciously trying to fix, or it might simply be that it's a dynamic that feels very familiar and mirrors something you're used to (even if it's unhealthy or dysfunctional). So if you're someone who tends to feel like you click more with avoidants, then you're far more likely to stay on the anxious side because that's the dynamic an FA will feel when paired with someone more avoidant than them. But with someone more anxious, you'd get avoidant... but if you don't normally pair with anxious partners, you may think you're mostly only anxious because that's the place you experience more and are more conscious of. But it's not necessarily because you're AP, it's because you're not choosing more anxious or secure partners. If you were, you might quickly feel avoidant, which would make you shut down and possibly quickly leave the relationship because it would feel like you aren't attracted-- so that avoidant side you have may not even really have registered. Since you keep pointing to you do have tendencies towards avoidance when not triggered anxious, it indicates you have issues in both areas but lean opposite of whoever you're paired with (normal for FA, who have a weak sense of consistency identity and are probably most prone to reacting to other people since they lack enough connection to self to hold steady on their own without external stimulus). You can think of it this way. Higher anxiety points (on the attachment style scale) mean greater distrust in self and higher fear of abandonment. Higher avoidance points mean greater distrust in others and higher fear of engulfment. FAs, therefore, experience all of those things, and swing all over the place in a disorganized way because they don't trust self or others enough -- so what can you trust??? It's a very, very difficult mindset which is why it's so inconsistent. The times he reached out to do a phone call, I turned him down like 3 times. I wondered about that, but mostly b/c I was in bed already, or didn't feel like it, or it would have meant staying up later than I wanted - or I wasn't "in the right frame of mind" <---- I guess this is not AP behavior? AP who didn't want to talk would probably line up another time to talk right away to make sure the person wouldn't get mad at their refusal and abandon them. So either, "not tonight but how about tomorrow instead?" Or say "not tonight," then on another day panic that the partner might be upset or mad and apologize profusely and try to reconnect to ease that anxiety of fear of abandonment and rejection. You're welcome, and hope it helps. |
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Post by serenity on Apr 16, 2020 8:09:30 GMT
I think too, that a lot of this comes with experience. When anyone who is not naturally detached (like a DA) falls in love with a emotionally present avoidant in the honeymoon phase, the relationship " looks secure". Then there is usually some kind of brutal discard, followed by intermittent reinforcement. Its not just "AP's" who will give the benefit of the doubt and try to get what they had back. Anyone with a lot of love in their heart, who hasn't been through it before, will become affected by this.
Your job is not to fix yourself and blame your previous wounds for what happened. Its to carefully choose someone who won't do this to you. Learn about the signs of avoidance , don't commit too much of your time to people you don't know, and run if they look non-committal.
It doesn't matter of you came from a broken background or will never have enough resources and beauty to feel secure. The only thing that matters is learning to pick good people IMO.
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), said there's "a lot of needy people" on online dating, needs his alone time. 
