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Post by soconfused on May 9, 2020 1:38:53 GMT
Hi, What do I make out of a DA ex whom I am still hooking up with that out of the blue starts acting nice to me?
Being open and sharing, listening and paying attention, saying kind things, inquiring about my internal state. I am FA and find it very unnerving that he isn’t being his, well, dismissive self. What’s going on? Is it possible for someone to flip a switch and change like that?
I am thinking all sorts of scenarios in my head... maybe another girl he had been focusing all his attention on dumped him, maybe his Mom heard how he speaks to me and yelled at him, maybe he is trying to manuipulate me to get something he wants... any thoughts here or anyone have similar experiences of genuine change like this?
Should I let it give me hope that he is going to be less avoidant and commit?
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Post by annieb on May 9, 2020 1:58:28 GMT
Hi, What do I make out of a DA ex whom I am still hooking up with that out of the blue starts acting nice to me? Being open and sharing, listening and paying attention, saying kind things, inquiring about my internal state. I am FA and find it very unnerving that he isn’t being his, well, dismissive self. What’s going on? Is it possible for someone to flip a switch and change like that? I am thinking all sorts of scenarios in my head... maybe another girl he had been focusing all his attention on dumped him, maybe his Mom heard how he speaks to me and yelled at him, maybe he is trying to manuipulate me to get something he wants... any thoughts here or anyone have similar experiences of genuine change like this? Should I let it give me hope that he is going to be less avoidant and commit? The quarantine is probably getting to him and your are probably right that someone else dumped him. I would treat carefully and protect your heart.
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Post by mrob on May 9, 2020 3:02:57 GMT
I find it strange for an FA to say “is it possible for someone to flip a switch”. We’re surely the kings and queens of that! Is it possible that you misread FA for DA, and you’re now seeing this side of it?
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Post by alexandra on May 9, 2020 5:13:43 GMT
any thoughts here or anyone have similar experiences of genuine change like this? Should I let it give me hope that he is going to be less avoidant and commit? Why don't you just ask? Say the dynamic feels better lately and you're liking it, see what he says. But in general, if he's really DA and not actively addressing his attachment issues, no. You don't just get genuine change out of no where. That's wishful thinking.
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Me
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Me on May 9, 2020 5:51:26 GMT
Maybe he isnt feeling as smothered or engulfed or he is scared of losing you for good so you arent as much of a threat right now . Unless he is getting help I wouldnt trust it but definitely you should say you've noticed a good change .
It must be the day for it , my mothers day cupcakes didnt turn out and my da or fa whatever would normally make some comment because he loves to point out everything wrong that I do but he saw it upset me a bit and was actually trying to reassure me . I know it's a small thing but he has never done that before
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Post by soconfused on May 9, 2020 6:32:20 GMT
I did say some positive comments along the lines of you were so supportive and nice and I really appreciate that. I think asking would just make him defensive - I would likely not get the real answer anyway no matter good or bad. I am FA but have been doing a ton of work on myself the past 12 months and have had secure relationships in the past, and this person totally threw me for a loop. Like many in this forum, I was anxious like never before. Discovering attachment theory has really changed my life and made it so much easier for me to not take things personally. I dare say I have earned secure but I think I still have some work to do... but I am so so much better than before. The reason for his change would be nice to know but I am more so concerned with protecting myself and setting strong boundaries and being on alert. It does not seem to be sustainable. As for doing work... I often talk about the type of work I am doing on myself and how much it has helped me and have gone as far as to recommend it for him a few times. I got him to read the book Attached which changed my life. But as far as doing any work I am unaware of and doubt that he is. So... guarding my heart and using new secure habits to take things very slow I suppose. If anything, I would like to be friends with this person and it seems DA’s are kinder to their friends than to their romantic partners so I am going to have to feel out options. Since we are not seeing each other right now, it offers a lot of perspective. But, I could also see him going on a binge with his typical low-class, bimbo girls that he normally goes for (we met randomly through mutual friends at grad school and I am very much not that type and we dated for 6 months before I couldn’t do it any longer), and if I am not careful yes that would hurt very much, even though I would be expecting it. It is not a good spot to be in and I often wish that he was out of my life completely as it doesn’t sound like DA’s can change without intensive years long therapy.
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Post by soconfused on May 9, 2020 6:35:59 GMT
I find it strange for an FA to say “is it possible for someone to flip a switch”. We’re surely the kings and queens of that! Is it possible that you misread FA for DA, and you’re now seeing this side of it? Good idea but I have known this person now for 3 years and we dated for 6 months and he is very consistently DA. None of the desperate pull traits. So unless it’s very well hidden, I doubt it
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Post by soconfused on May 9, 2020 6:46:10 GMT
Annieb you wrote something in another post about “breaking up with someone in your mind” and I wonder if that could be it too. Of course, we are and have been broken up but perhaps he’s thinking of me more as a true friend and trusting me more. He has certainly been dismissive and rude and even yelled at me a few times during quarantine and I have always remained calm and reasonable with him. Of course, he can’t apologize or admit any wrong doing but perhaps there has been some kind of shift where he is realizing I am harmless? I certainly think that’s a bit wishful thinking. I really hope that it wasn’t that he’s coming to me to be re-fueled after experiencing rejection somewhere else but I don’t see narcissistic tendencies in him, but who knows. That thought really sets off my paranoid FA side that I have to remind myself that even if that is the case it doesn’t mean he can’t also be trusting me more.
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Post by alexandra on May 9, 2020 9:06:14 GMT
soconfused, you said you're still hooking up with him. That means you're not seeing each other as just friends, and the romantic connection that triggers you both is still there (even if it's only physical). If you want to truly just be friends, you need to stop hooking up. But it sounds like you want more than friendship anyway. And if he's your ex, and hasn't expressed that he wants to get back together and is usually distancing from you (while still hooking up with you), he's not viewing this as a relationship getting-back-together-slowly situation. And the secure thing to do is talk to him about it, tell him what you want, hear out what he wants, and then leave if what you both want isn't aligned. Leaving can mean taking a break and then trying to be friends again a little later, or it can mean moving on to a new situation that meets your needs and making sure you're over the ex first before deciding if you want to have him in your life as just a friend. Guessing and reading tea leaves is out of fear, not out of patience and earned secure behavior. You're afraid he'll tell you something you don't want to hear, or shut down. But if that happens, it's because there's a romantic incompatibility in what you want which causes you to trigger each other. Plus, there's no possibility of a real relationship if bringing it up would cause him to get so defensive you can't get a real answer out of him. There's no trust or decent communication. That's a recipe for longer-term failure. Him feeling safe, as your friend, is great. But his avoidant attachment style existed long before he met you and has nothing to do with you, which is why you can't fix it or change him. Do you really want to keep hooking up with an ex who isn't always nice to you and wishing he'll change? I'm sure you've come a long way in the last 12 months, and you are likely more secure than you were before you learned about attachment theory, so bravo for the hard work! But to keep growing and really get secure, you've got to keep focusing on yourself and not get distracted with wishful thinking that he can come around. If the current situation with him doesn't make you happy, then be honest with yourself about that and about your role in it instead of trying to mind-read. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but I've dated plenty of avoidants and gotten stuck on exes for ages, wishing they'd finally change and come around. What really helps is connecting to yourself so you understand what you truly want, practicing communicating it to overcome your fear, and accepting if it ends up being an outcome you didn't want so you can then move on because it's what's best for you. If he hasn't changed in 3 years, he's not ready and willing to change at the stage of his life, and you can't control where he is in his process. You can only control yourself. You deserve better than someone who can't even be consistently nice to you when you're hooking up, but it's harder to believe that until you leave the physical and romantic aspect of this relationship behind you. Communicate, heal, and then be his friend later if you still want. If you're trying to model secure behavior, that's the secure way through this.
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Post by annieb on May 9, 2020 13:48:54 GMT
Annieb you wrote something in another post about “breaking up with someone in your mind” and I wonder if that could be it too. Of course, we are and have been broken up but perhaps he’s thinking of me more as a true friend and trusting me more. He has certainly been dismissive and rude and even yelled at me a few times during quarantine and I have always remained calm and reasonable with him. Of course, he can’t apologize or admit any wrong doing but perhaps there has been some kind of shift where he is realizing I am harmless? I certainly think that’s a bit wishful thinking. I really hope that it wasn’t that he’s coming to me to be re-fueled after experiencing rejection somewhere else but I don’t see narcissistic tendencies in him, but who knows. That thought really sets off my paranoid FA side that I have to remind myself that even if that is the case it doesn’t mean he can’t also be trusting me more. Maybe he is reading the forums trying to change his behavior:) I hear you on the paranoid side, but I would trust yourself completely in terms of your gut feeling. Attachment and depressions aside, I don’t remember a time that my gut wasn’t right. I think in the spirit of nothing to lose I would “confront” him like the others are suggesting. Saying something like: “I notice you’ve been more relaxed lately, I’m enjoying this, what’s your secret?” Although you’re probably not going to get a straight answer from him. I would treat this man as a friend and a friend only.
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Post by willow on May 9, 2020 15:47:04 GMT
Maybe he isnt feeling as smothered or engulfed or he is scared of losing you for good so you arent as much of a threat right now . Unless he is getting help I wouldnt trust it but definitely you should say you've noticed a good change . I agree with this. He is feeling ok to approach you due to recent space and distance. Start to get close again and he'll probably withdraw.
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Post by soconfused on May 9, 2020 18:18:24 GMT
Wow lots of great comments. Thanks everyone. We have actually had direct “relationship” conversations and he is very clear that he does not want a relationship. So that is not unclear at all. It’s just been the recent change in behavior that has thrown me for a loop. I would not say he is “not nice” but classic DA - doesn’t ask me any questions, doesn’t reach out to me first, cold and professional seeming, doesn’t reveal much about himself. He has always randomly relaxed and did share quite a bit with me when we dated but being FA, I would find the small lies and then get very upset so according to him he had to start keeping things from me. It can really be tempting to think maybe he is becoming more secure because of my consistent, predictable, behavior, so that is really what I was wondering about. But, it sounds like that is not an option in any of the opinions I am getting here. I have read how a DA can become more secure if they’re in a secure relationship over time and so just thought maybe this could be a little tiny shift in that direction (as long as I don’t mess it up). He’s even started reciprocating loving things (can’t wait to see you, miss you, etc) and displayed a little bit of jealousy (I’m not trying to make him jealous!) so... seeing some more human emotions makes me feel like we are building intimacy and I just want to know if that is real or temporary. I am so afraid he will back off for no reason as soon as things go well for a time. I understand everyone’s comments about moving on etc and I can assure you I am not waiting around for him I am just confused by the behavior. Any additional thoughts welcome and thank you again!
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Post by alexandra on May 9, 2020 19:11:28 GMT
soconfused In my experience, even if avoidant partners and exes get more secure with me, they are not overall getting more secure in their attachment style. So, blindsiding defense mechanism behaviors, especially when triggered, will still pop up to push me away, and true re-commitment romantically for any actual amount of time (like, more than a couple weeks) has never once happened (even if hooking up was on and off). Also, if they get triggered to seem emotionally closer (which is usually an anxious trigger in an FA -- it's also possible that you've only seen him be DA because he triggers you anxious which triggers him avoidant, and you weren't avoidant enough with him to trigger him anxious in the past)... in my experience, either this is always short-lived if directly related to you OR a result of other things going on in their lives -- often, someone else dumping them and them needing attention and validation, as another poster said. I have never seen it be anything else, personally, because that only happens if someone is truly earning secure. If they're not an outlier doing the work and in the middle of shifting attachment styles, they're just repeating their same patterns over and over and you're seeing a different stage of their normal cycle. So, it'll bounce back as soon as they feel engulfed or they find someone else to pine for ("the one", but only from enough of a distance!). In general, people with insecure attachment of all types are projecting out past wounds and acting them out at you. It's basically never actually about you, because they see people in regards to their own established defense mechanisms and insecurities, and simply don't see their partners clearly and objectively for who they are. Anxious or avoidant, all do that. That's why these things go on endlessly in circles if you'll let them. True conflict resolution and processing isn't happening because the issues aren't really about the partner so you can't get anywhere that way. In fact, I'd recommend reading about over- and under-coupling for more information. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-response (the now deleted poster was a DA). Since I've stopped accepting these unstable situations, dating is so much less complicated, draining, and dramatic.
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Post by soconfused on May 9, 2020 23:28:58 GMT
Alexandra - thank you. I will check out the post. You could be correct that I trigger the avoidant in him and he triggers the anxious in me. I agree with pretty much all of the opinions and scenarios here as to why (what is going on in his life right now) he suddenly is so talkative, open and initiating all sorts of messages and contact. You are probably right that, ultimately, it is healthier for me to disengage and stop giving this person any of my energy. I don’t think I am quite there yet, but I do feel a bit like an abused animal whose owner is suddenly being nice and just do not trust the behavior to be authentic or to last. I think with continued work and reminding myself to shift the focus back onto myself that i will reach the point of leaving this person. Already much of the appeal has been lost for me. I do not have expectations of him capable of changing. Most men I have dated or secure or anxious and I have had wonderful long term relationships with both types (although the anxious do make me more avoidant!). So, this whole experience certainly caused me to pause and I am grateful for learning from it. Appreciate the support and consistent messages from everyone.
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