New, and would love some thoughts... | Jeb Kinnison Attachment Type Forum

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 3:08:15 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 10, 2020 3:08:15 GMT

Hi All,

So so pleased to have found this thread. Apologies for the longer post, I’ll try to dot point as much as I can.

Ex and I were together 3 1/2 years. First year and dating were amazing. He was very charming, fwd, organised, affectionate.
We moved in together after one year.

Red flags there all the way along I guess, but I don’t believe anyone’s perfect and tried to look at the positive flip sides to those flags.
11 months into r.ship he was caught out flirting heavily online with a female work friend. I confronted him and he seemed devastated and I believed it was more just an ego boost for him (I’ve always known his confidence isn’t that great and he craves attention and the high lights! Outwardly though he is always the life of the party)

This set off some anxiousness in me as that tends to be where I go, however I had really been quite aware of this.

During the next couple of years I knew he was checking up on women online through Facebook, never cheating but always kind of seeking that boost. I accepted that this was his escape.

He started telling me I was needing, sex was always on his timeline (although it was wonderful and there was always plenty), he would walk way in front of me when we went out, started gaslighting me heavily, would have like almost tantrums when I tried to discuss something with him (I’d always use i statements, acknowledge where he may be coming from first etc)

After an argument last year he said he wanted a week space so I did my best to give him that.
In that week he was looking for new place to live and reaching out to old tinder flames. At the very end of the week he told me we were over. Cold, no explanation etc. I was devastated. Two days later he comes back and says let’s work on it. We have a talk - where he outlines his needs but doesn’t really ask much of mine. However things get a lot between for 8 weeks.

He gets cancer, and totally held me at a distance despite me being his full time carer. Revels in the support and love from anyone else but when I ask for a hug tells me I’m manipulative, needy and it’s all about me. (I’m 24/7 looking after him and his child as well as my own at this point) During cancer he yells and swears at me, gaslights me, is just horrid. I thought maybe it was the drugs and just kept pushing through.
He was cleared totally and two days before his last treatment said we were over. Again, I was devastated. Just apparently way too many bad times, we are way too different etc etc . Won’t give it time, won’t speak to counsellor, nothing

I move out and we remain friends. I am finally healed by March (I’ve in this time seen him hook up with someone in front of me at a mutual friends wedding, I’ve seen him go online dating after he said he would always just let me know before he did that - he’d asked me to do same)
I always just spoke calmly to him re these, got his reasons etc .
He decided to ‘see’ wedding girl so we left things there.

Two weeks later he comes to me - missed me, made a rushed decision , thinks I’m wonderful, wants to date me again- but not tell anyone until we are strong again as a couple. And go slow just rediscovering each other.
I agree and the first week is amazing.
Then he will withdraws and question it gently and he tells me he’s been busy (prior to dating again he had Been in contact constantly)
We continued on and have a lovely time! He overly affectionate but sex is amazing as always and i know he is making an effort.
He has dinner at mine, it’s a great night, I’m feeling safe to open up and i say ‘I’m loving our time together and getting to know you again... but I’m struggling a little with the disparity between our emotional intimacy and our physical intimacy. How can we even that up a little and what do You need in order to feel strong as a couple again, as I’d love to share my happiness with friends.
He literally goes into meltdown. Can’t believe I’m ‘doing this’ already again, we are way too different as people etc
I try to calm him and explain this is healthy communication coming from a good place.
He walks out, won’t talk to me for a week and says we are entirely done.

I want to show him I respect his space need so don’t see him or reach out til end Of week. He says let’s give it one more go.
It’s all good for 8 days (not great in any sense but I figure it’ll take time for him to express feeling etc)
He asked me to come to park for a quick catch up as it’s such a lovely day and I go, excited to see him.
He says we are done entirely, we don’t work, he never should have come back to me, end of story

Then I find out he is online dating less than 24 hours later

Did I do something wrong? Why has he moved on so quickly? Will he be returning again ?? (I’ve not made contact with him since)
I have read things, listened to podcasts, done counselling, you name it all the way along to try to improve myself and us and to understand him.
Is there any hope for us - from you who have had experience?
I’ve never loved or laughed as much as I did
With him and physically we are super also. I guess I have always hung on thinking he will get to the point of feeling ok and moving fwd.

Also if this Is it, how move on (again!!) I miss him and love him.
He has restricted me on fb, And of course I haven’t told him I know he is online dating already etc.

Did he actually have feelings for me?? He said he wants me but we can never be what he wishes we could (but never says what he wants) He says we can’t meet each other’s needs (but never is willing to discuss - and has a tantrum when I try to learn his as per argument)

Any help in any of this would be so appreciated. Sorry it’s long and jumbled, still in a lot of pain xx

kittygirl
Full Member

Posts: 169

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 3:55:26 GMT serenity and laura123 like this

Quote

Post by kittygirl on May 10, 2020 3:55:26 GMT

Ah Laura-for whatever reason this story (specifically) was quite difficult for me to read. I almost was feeling your pain.

Since you are actively seeking advice (and since you've suggested you are someone who deals with stress by researching a lot-I am too so I can relate!) my FIRST piece of advice to you is this: Start at the newest posts in the "fearful avoidant" section, and literally work your way through those. Read as many posts as you can. Read and read and read. Try your HARDEST to really accept what you read and take those stories as being from the "experts"- they have either been in relationships with avoidants, or are avoidants themselves.

What you will find is that, sadly, your story isn't unique at all. In fact, the cycling over and over and over again that you mention is a hallmark of the anxious/avoidant relationship dynamic.

Your sentence here: "I guess I have always hung on thinking he will get to the point of feeling ok and moving fwd." is how SO MANY of us think. We think that with patience OR (in my case I thought) if I give it a ton of time and go slowly and really focus on building the TRUST that things will be fine. But here's the problem with that line of thinking: the issue isn't with you. It's got in fact, nothing to do with you. It's sort of "way beyond you" if you want to think of it that way. His attachment issues were there before he met you and will be there once you are out of his life.

This is so well demonstrated in this this story I recently read that I am going to post below (This wasn't from this forum but was left as a comment on another website about fearful avoidance) and I was BLOWN AWAY by it. This is an example where-you couldn't have gone any slower (they were friends since junior high) couldn't have had any better trust (they had been best friends for decades) and STILL the attachment issues prevail. It's got nothing to do with the partner or how strongly they feel about you.

You need to be very VERY honest with yourself about what your own issues are. Dig deep. Even when it means tackling truly scary stuff. If you are very honest, you will see that you play a part in this just as much as he does. But first, start with this story:

"Hello to all, my story is similar but also went a crazy direction, the man I fell in love with was my best friend, we have known each since middle school, we helped each other through marriages. We knew each of our flaws. We were BFFS mind you. Anyways this past ball season we started talking on intimate levels, One night he came to my house and we were just hanging out and watching one of our all time favorite movies. Talking about the old times and going down high school year. When a specific topic came up I had mentioned that I had written about that in my diary. The topic was about how I felt in high school about him, but I never explored it cause he has just ended a bad relationship. I let him read my journal entry and in the middle of reading what had been written he stopped grabbed my face and kissed me. from that night on we were even closer, we hung out, became intimate on a sexual level, the passion was very intense, something I never expected. We feel in love, once he said this to me and I to him. everything was good until he started saying things like, you know all my flaws and fears. I am so afraid that I will hurt you and you are perfect I don’t want to do that to you… he said he was afraid that he would take away the happy things the glow he sees in me everyday, we both are very comical people and we make each other laugh uncontrollable…. and sure enough he cheated on me, I forgave him and he truly has a fear of love I believe. a long time ago he was hurt very badly by a girlfriend and he tried to commit suicide. Again things were well, until one day he said he needed space, I started to give him that space, and I will admit I am impatient and he knows this. so I went to his house to talk to him. we cried talked for hours and made love, but when I left he said he needed space. He wanted to make sure I was happy, and he didn’t know if he could do that and he was afraid that he would constantly hurt me…. I gave space. than everything was ok again. until he told me he wanted to just be friend. I called him and talked to him about all we have talked about before. He said he loved me and never loved someone like this, he said we would talk, he said that when I talk to him I make him feel things he never felt before and it scares the shit out of him. that was a Thursday evening and he said we would get together on sunday and talk about things. that he would write all his thoughts down and that I do the same and we would talk about them. That next day I was served with CPO> papers. He told the courts that I had threatened his life for the last 3 weeks. etc. etc. of course the CPO got thrown out. I believe this CPO was away for him to avoid his feelings and the love we shared that he was scared about. but the thing that hurts even more so is that we were best friends. true best friends and I lost that as well. it has been 3 weeks and I have not heard from him nor I him, Do you think there will ever be a chance for us or atleast to get our friendship back?"

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 4:27:02 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 10, 2020 4:27:02 GMT

kittygirl Firstly thank you so much for responding, I so appreciate it!

And it really helped to be assured that his problems were there prior to me and will be there after...
I am so aware of where I play a part in all of our relationship, and in where I need be accepting of him, which is why I’ve been willing to push some things aside - his need for women’s attention etc.., and just wanted to work on us together. To me, it’s an easy fix and we could have a glorious relationship but I cannot get him to see his patterns, acknowledge any part in the relationship cycle (although deep down I feel he knows he hasn’t treated me well and that he has hurt me) or to take part in actively moving us forward

You are right in that no matter how slowly we went, we would eventually hit the same space again wouldn’t we?

It’s difficult when I know he loves me as best he knows how, and I know he places a lot of pressure on himself that he can’t give me what I deserve and that he’s not actually loveable - although he would never admit these things.
I had really just hoped we could work it out when he came back to me, and I’m left wondering how he was actually hoping i would be or what he wanted. I’m not sure I could have ever got it right.

I’m guessing his jump to online dating is just another way of avoiding feelings and what has happenned.....

It all hurts though, you know.

I’ll get to reading right though as you suggested. The vibe I got is that it’s incredibly hard to have a healthy relationship with someone such as my ex, would you say this is correct

And again, thank you 🙏🏻 x

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 4:29:06 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 10, 2020 4:29:06 GMT

And your comment :

Your sentence here: "I guess I have always hung on thinking he will get to the point of feeling ok and moving fwd." is how SO MANY of us think. We think that with patience OR (in my case I thought) if I give it a ton of time and go slowly and really focus on building the TRUST that things will be fine.

Oh how I thought and believed just as you did.

alexandra
Platinum Member

Posts: 2,916

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 4:42:27 GMT via mobile annieb and serenity like this

Quote

Post by alexandra on May 10, 2020 4:42:27 GMT

laura123 Oh gosh. I don't know if he's FA or has narcissistic personality disorder, but either way he is toxic to the max and will never be the partner you want back. Don't see the potential, see him, and how terribly he treats you. It doesn't matter if he's insecure about himself, gaslighting (especially repeatedly) is a red flag you should always run the f*ck away from. You didn't cause his behavior, only he controls his behavior. Whether or not he cares for you is irrelevant because he does not respect you at all and you can't trust him. There's no healthy relationship to be had, no matter what you do, because he's such a toxic person who can also play at being nice and charming when he wants something.

I'm sorry this happened, especially after you cared for him when he was sick. Have you looked into your own attachment style? My guess would be you are anxious-preoccupied to have endured this level of codependency, internalized the blame, and never left the situation. He cannot give you the love or closure you seek, because he's not capable of it. But per other posters' comments, examining what patterns you're either repeating or trying to correct from earlier in your life by staying in a situation where you're getting nothing but cut down is the only way out of this.

I've been on the receiving end of emotionally abusive romantic dynamics like this (habitual gaslighting is always abusive!), and it can leave your confidence shot and you feeling addicted to the partner who once was great then mistreated you, devalued you, and left. Know that you need to be kind to yourself, and you need time for the chemical attachment to him to go away and the ruminating thoughts focused on him to stop. That's totally normal. It doesn't happen overnight, but try to keep in mind that you will need to rebuild your confidence and care for yourself, and more energy spent on worrying about how he's doing and what you did wrong (past general mourning and processing) will be wasted energy.

A good starting point while you're still ruminating and spinning though may be looking up "trauma bonding."

Last Edit: May 10, 2020 4:43:05 GMT by alexandra

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 5:14:41 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 10, 2020 5:14:41 GMT

alexandra Thank you 🙏🏻

I originally thought narcissism too- there’s so much more I didn’t even pop into the post. But I think it all stems from the DA/FA, with some very narcissistic traits.

It was actually really helpful for me to hear an outsiders viewpoint that he is toxic and it’s not respectful. I always try to balance it out and see the good side. I continue to see potential.
And, yes I really need to look at why I accept those things full stop. I’ve worked a lot on how anxious internally I ended up feeling with him (I had a lot of digestional and skin issues while with him due to stress) however I guess as silly as it is I still want to be with him and see it work and that’s not really normal when you put it so bluntly that it’s toxic and won’t work. I’ll need work on my own confidence and worth.

And you’re right, regardless he has displayed behaviour that is not acceptable or normal in a relationship.

ill start to look into ways to not continue my own patterns. I’m not contacting him, but right now I don’t feel strong enough if he came back to say no, and that’s silly! He knows how loyal I am, and has no reason to think I won’t always be about.
It’s good to know about the chemical bit too, I think that’s where I am at now, going through that sting of having been addicted to us.

I’m so pleased to hear that there is a healthy happy future ahead because as I’m sure you know having been through it, it doesn’t feel like it right now.

Thanks for taking the time to support me and respond.

serenity
Honored Contributor

Posts: 771

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 7:12:53 GMT Me likes this

Quote

Post by serenity on May 10, 2020 7:12:53 GMT

Man that guys a total jerk. You loved him so much and cared for him during a major cancer scare, and he repaid you with abuse during that time, and he dumped you as soon as he got the all clear and started chasing other women for sex.

It would be a mistake to believe that he cares for you "deep down" . Care doesn't look like that, hon. Care isn't chronic disloyalty and repaying kindness with abuse. You are indeed trauma bonded, and its going to be awful to undo this. Start with telling yourself the truth, always. That man doesn't love you. Doesn't care about how you feel or what you need. He can't be trusted and he's a user. Its having an affect on your body, and people do die from the illnesses they acquire in toxic relationships. You don't deserve this, hon.

Just keep reading everything about trauma bonding, and be ruthlessly honest with yourself. It will eventually set you free, I promise.

Last Edit: May 10, 2020 7:13:36 GMT by serenity

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 7:44:33 GMT via mobile annieb and serenity like this

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 10, 2020 7:44:33 GMT

serenity 🙏🏻💗

Thank you. Your words made me cry, because I know they are true.
I need focus my mind on healing me and breaking those patterns.

Thank you for making it clear in my mind- the truth.
Love doesn’t look anything like the way that he has treated me, as a partner, as a lover, and even just as a friend.
This has given me much strength today, all of you have! And I know you know how crap it feels at times.
Just going to keep on aiming for ‘strong days’ x

annieb
Honored Contributor

Posts: 636

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 16:42:08 GMT

Quote

Post by annieb on May 10, 2020 16:42:08 GMT

Goodness, I couldn't even read the whole thing, how much my heart breaks for you. I wish that you find the strength to take all the love you gave to this person and give it yourself. What would it feel and look like for you, if you loved yourself? What choices would you make if you loved yourself? One book that I always go back to for basic self help, and I think it helped me the most, is called "Live Your Truth" by Kamal Ravikant. It's just a basic mantra on how to get back to you and your self love and how to get there in a very simple way. I hope that coming to this forum helps you get there, among all the other things you will be doing. This is a great place to start.

alexandra
Platinum Member

Posts: 2,916

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 17:30:39 GMT via mobile annieb likes this

Quote

Post by alexandra on May 10, 2020 17:30:39 GMT

laura123, as you introspect about this, I'd also suggest thinking about if there were any situations earlier in life where you were encouraged to unconditionally accept someone else's emotionally unstable and perhaps abusive (could be emotionally or physically, though I'd guess emotionally) behavior. Perhaps someone with undiagnosed mental health problems or someone not getting help with existing issues or someone with a personality disorder... that their hurtful behavior was minimized to "keep the peace" perhaps and therefore normalized, while you learned to push your own feelings down in deference to someone else's difficulties. If so, learning to choose healthier partners will involve reprogramming this dynamic you're primed for, of using this tactic to stay attached to unsafe people because at one point it might have been necessary, while at the same time doing the work of rebuilding your self-esteem and sense of self.

Last Edit: May 10, 2020 17:32:25 GMT by alexandra

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 10, 2020 22:20:48 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 10, 2020 22:20:48 GMT

May 10, 2020 16:42:08 GMT annieb said:

Goodness, I couldn't even read the whole thing, how much my heart breaks for you. I wish that you find the strength to take all the love you gave to this person and give it yourself. What would it feel and look like for you, if you loved yourself? What choices would you make if you loved yourself? One book that I always go back to for basic self help, and I think it helped me the most, is called "Live Your Truth" by Kamal Ravikant. It's just a basic mantra on how to get back to you and your self love and how to get there in a very simple way. I hope that coming to this forum helps you get there, among all the other things you will be doing. This is a great place to start.

Thanks annieb for your beautiful response. I feel very alone because no one knows what he was like last year - he is very much the opposite to all family and friends, so the couple I’ve told find it very hard to kind of believe, and then this year when he came back to me he didn’t want anyone to know at all yet, so now I feel heartbroken alone.
I know it will heal - it has too, it’s just so painful right now.

I will certainly read that book! Thanks for providing some places for me to start to heal 💗

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 11, 2020 1:29:36 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 11, 2020 1:29:36 GMT

May 10, 2020 17:30:39 GMT alexandra said:

laura123, as you introspect about this, I'd also suggest thinking about if there were any situations earlier in life where you were encouraged to unconditionally accept someone else's emotionally unstable and perhaps abusive (could be emotionally or physically, though I'd guess emotionally) behavior. Perhaps someone with undiagnosed mental health problems or someone not getting help with existing issues or someone with a personality disorder... that their hurtful behavior was minimized to "keep the peace" perhaps and therefore normalized, while you learned to push your own feelings down in deference to someone else's difficulties. If so, learning to choose healthier partners will involve reprogramming this dynamic you're primed for, of using this tactic to stay attached to unsafe people because at one point it might have been necessary, while at the same time doing the work of rebuilding your self-esteem and sense of self.

Thanks alexandra. I’ve previously done some work on this, I have always tried to look at my part in the picture and how I may trigger him and vice versa, and I always own it rather than blame it on him.

I remember being quite anxious re leaving my mum at home for the day when I’d be off to school (say age 5/6) but I can’t for the life of me think why. My dad is rather dismissive and isn’t good with his own emotions, and many many years later I witnessed him just be quite passive aggressive and not willing to work on the marriage while my mum tried to (I’m talking like ten years after I remember those early feelings which were so strong) but I can’t quite determine where this came from. Unless as a pre 5 year old I picked up more than I am even able to remember.

I am still blaming myself - as in could I have done more, could I have given more space, more understanding, more anything to ex.. I’m finding it hard to just accept that things he did were unacceptable, although I’m staying on my ‘white horse’ and will continue to do so.

Also, is it normal for avoidant to go straight onto online dating and meeting new people (under pretence of wanting a relationship of course) Do the patterns continue for these people? And yes I realise why should I care? But I do.

dhali
Senior Member

Posts: 346

New, and would love some thoughts... May 11, 2020 3:15:07 GMT via mobile alexandra and laura123 like this

Quote

Post by dhali on May 11, 2020 3:15:07 GMT

Laura-

You’re getting some of the best advice in the business here. Just solid all around. As for the going straight to online dating... yup. Pretty standard. I’m FA btw, recovering anyhow, and I’ve done that. Even after major relationships. And yup, I thought I was looking for something serious. All of this is subconscious. We just want to be loved. And then when we are, it doesn’t quite feel right. And we don’t trust it. But we still want to be loved. That’s the generous view. The whole thing is about self preservation. The FA has a ton of subconscious coping mechanisms for trying to fill their void. Swiping right and matching is one of those.

Last Edit: May 11, 2020 3:17:33 GMT by dhali

laura123
New Member

Posts: 8

New, and would love some thoughts... May 11, 2020 4:40:43 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by laura123 on May 11, 2020 4:40:43 GMT

dhali Thank you for your response. I feel blessed to have found this group, so many really helpful responses and support.
It’s lifting me up at the moment and I hope to be one day strong enough to be able to return some of the advice and love.

Is it also normal (what a word that is! But you know what I mean) for one to return wanting to try and try again?

Again, thank you.