alice
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Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Jun 20, 2020 5:50:10 GMT
I'm wondering if it is common for avoidants (FA, mainly) to chase someone who is dating or in a relationship with someone else? Do they enjoy the chase? Or does it feel safer? Is that person more attractive to them?
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Post by alexandra on Jun 20, 2020 8:38:40 GMT
YES. Chasing someone unavailable is the perfect way to feel safe: close but never too close. You can feel longing (butterflies, a high, maybe even "purpose" through fantasy) without any engulfment, while (added bonus!) making yourself emotionally unavailable to anyone else.
Pining for a phantom ex is a similar phenomenon and defense mechanism.
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Post by annieb on Jun 20, 2020 12:04:51 GMT
I'm wondering if it is common for avoidants (FA, mainly) to chase someone who is dating or in a relationship with someone else? Do they enjoy the chase? Or does it feel safer? Is that person more attractive to them? They don’t even have to be in a relationship. Anybody aloof or withdrawn will do, anyone we perceive as rejecting us. We need them to validate us, and if we “turn” them and they all of a sudden want us or feel safe to want us, we immediately feel the fear of engulfment. |
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Post by kittygirl on Jun 20, 2020 22:01:54 GMT
I just can't believe I didn't see this with all the knowledge I have. alice-it's funny this should come up now, because I have been struggling with how to even approach this on here myself (for weeks now) and since this is coming up relatively organically I can tell you I recently discovered ("discovered") that I am FA (it's a long story that I will reserve for it's own post but included seeing an attachment specialist who was like "uhhhh do you not realize you're FA?"). It's so so SO hard to see this stuff when youre IN it...like it's my own reality so how on earth can I know something different? I have read so much about attachment, felt like I was really informed but it wasn't until recently that I was BLOWN AWAY (like it felt like my world was turned upside down) did I realize this. I cried and cried at first ha. Anyway, I really pine for people who are aloof and dismissive because it feels so much safer (and makes me "feel something") when I am the pursuer. It's sort of the only way I can "feel anything" for someone which is embarrassing and effed up to even write down. But just as you experienced, once that affection is returned I really get turned off (can almost turn into repulsion-like a grossed out feeling). INSANE that I experienced this my entire life and never put the pieces together-EVEN WITH all that I know! Just shows HOW HARD this attachment stuff really is. |
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alice
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Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Jun 20, 2020 23:38:06 GMT
Anyway, I really pine for people who are aloof and dismissive because it feels so much safer (and makes me "feel something") when I am the pursuer. It's sort of the only way I can "feel anything" for someone which is embarrassing and effed up to even write down. But just as you experienced, once that affection is returned I really get turned off (can almost turn into repulsion-like a grossed out feeling).
Do you feel like pursuing someone in this way makes you feel like you've won something or earned something priceless or solved a puzzle in a way that other people would not be able to achieve? |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jun 21, 2020 0:39:41 GMT
YES. Chasing someone unavailable is the perfect way to feel safe: close but never too close. You can feel longing (butterflies, a high, maybe even "purpose" through fantasy) without any engulfment, while (added bonus!) making yourself emotionally unavailable to anyone else. Pining for a phantom ex is a similar phenomenon and defense mechanism. I feel this is what happened to me, I was "unavailable" in numerous ways for 15-18 months prior, and she finally "got me" and it was too overwhelming. (On top of the Narc abuse in the background.) And she definitely had very specific pics of her and the ex. that cheated on her up on social media, the "one that got away" almost. Again almost part of a "fantasy" imao. That's how it comes across to me anyway. |
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Post by mrob on Jun 21, 2020 3:47:07 GMT
They don’t even have to be in a relationship. Anybody aloof or withdrawn will do, anyone we perceive as rejecting us. We need them to validate us, and if we “turn” them and they all of a sudden want us or feel safe to want us, we immediately feel the fear of engulfment. Just read my own recent thread on that. I’ve never felt so anxious, the longing, and the downright pain. All attachment based. It was a real eye opener. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 21, 2020 4:13:38 GMT
alice, it's not something conscious. The person is likely not even aware they have that pattern because the feelings feel "real," ie once you get together they just feel oh guess they're just not "the one" after all. It's not, hey, I'm seeking a challenge so this person fits the bill... challenge over, must now look for defects to rationalize losing interest.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 21, 2020 4:24:30 GMT
YES. Chasing someone unavailable is the perfect way to feel safe: close but never too close. You can feel longing (butterflies, a high, maybe even "purpose" through fantasy) without any engulfment, while (added bonus!) making yourself emotionally unavailable to anyone else. Pining for a phantom ex is a similar phenomenon and defense mechanism. I feel this is what happened to me, I was "unavailable" in numerous ways for 15-18 months prior, and she finally "got me" and it was too overwhelming. (On top of the Narc abuse in the background.) And she definitely had very specific pics of her and the ex. that cheated on her up on social media, the "one that got away" almost. Again almost part of a "fantasy" imao. That's how it comes across to me anyway. It's happened to me too, more than once, but the first time was very serious and long-term. But since I was AP, feeling like I lost his very intense love (he pined after me when I was unavailable for almost a year and then we had logistics issues for another 6 months) just 3 months into our for-real-no-more-external-obstacles relationship was extremely damaging for me. We stayed together another year because I think he felt so dumb longing for me and changing his mind as soon as he really had me (and we were very close friends for a long time first, he wasn't surprised by who I actually was or anything when we went official), plus he was avoidant and avoiding the entire thing. He just got super resentful and callous because I didn't perfectly magically fix all his mental health issues through my mere existence... and I blamed myself and stuck around, getting anxious and codependent. |
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Post by mrob on Jun 21, 2020 4:26:01 GMT
It feels so real that the transition to chasing defects feels like it comes up organically. If I look at my last one, I knew that she wasn’t suitable from day 1. So many dealbreakers. So much behaviour I would never put up with from someone else, but because of the aloofness and unavailability, I was hooked. Nothing to do with her. We’d agreed on FWB, but I caught a ton of feelings, while knowing all along she was unavailable. Getting the best of insight from here, I still walked like a lemming. This stuff is so deeply ingrained. It’s incredible.
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Post by mrob on Jun 21, 2020 4:39:13 GMT
Oh yes alice, definitely not being engulfed is on the top of my list. I don’t go for challenges. I feel inferior to most women, so that low self esteem ensures that one will be a self fulfilling prophecy, so I don’t go there. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 21, 2020 5:39:49 GMT
I just can't believe I didn't see this with all the knowledge I have. alice -it's funny this should come up now, because I have been struggling with how to even approach this on here myself (for weeks now) and since this is coming up relatively organically I can tell you I recently discovered ("discovered") that I am FA (it's a long story that I will reserve for it's own post but included seeing an attachment specialist who was like "uhhhh do you not realize you're FA?"). It's so so SO hard to see this stuff when youre IN it...like it's my own reality so how on earth can I know something different? I have read so much about attachment, felt like I was really informed but it wasn't until recently that I was BLOWN AWAY (like it felt like my world was turned upside down) did I realize this. I cried and cried at first ha. Anyway, I really pine for people who are aloof and dismissive because it feels so much safer (and makes me "feel something") when I am the pursuer. It's sort of the only way I can "feel anything" for someone which is embarrassing and effed up to even write down. But just as you experienced, once that affection is returned I really get turned off (can almost turn into repulsion-like a grossed out feeling). INSANE that I experienced this my entire life and never put the pieces together-EVEN WITH all that I know! Just shows HOW HARD this attachment stuff really is. Hey kitty girl...me too...I tend to be the pursuer. I remember before B and I dated, he told me that he had only dated girls that pursued him (should have been a red flag...but nope...I was already in game on mode). |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 21, 2020 5:44:44 GMT
Anyway, I really pine for people who are aloof and dismissive because it feels so much safer (and makes me "feel something") when I am the pursuer. It's sort of the only way I can "feel anything" for someone which is embarrassing and effed up to even write down. But just as you experienced, once that affection is returned I really get turned off (can almost turn into repulsion-like a grossed out feeling).
Do you feel like pursuing someone in this way makes you feel like you've won something or earned something priceless or solved a puzzle in a way that other people would not be able to achieve? For me...yes. And earning love is all I have ever known, so I honestly don’t trust love that is freely given. I am a Christian and I realized fairly recently that I am avoidant with God/Jesus.....I can’t fathom a love without any fine print. |
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alice
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Jun 21, 2020 6:45:03 GMT
Oh yes alice , definitely not being engulfed is on the top of my list. I don’t go for challenges. I feel inferior to most women, so that low self esteem ensures that one will be a self fulfilling prophecy, so I don’t go there. Interesting. Does anyone think there is a pattern in this? AP find the Avoidant attractive and pursues Avoidant to earn love FA find the Avoidant attractive and pursues Avoidant to avoid engulfment I think I fall more into the latter...I would say me being attracted to someone who seems independent would satisfy my desire to not be engulfed. |
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Post by mrob on Jun 21, 2020 6:52:36 GMT
Of course there is a pattern. FA is the lovely stable combination of AP and DA. That’s why some call it “disorganised”. alice, I thought so too, then I became increasingly anxious. Insecure attachment is no win. |
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