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Post by tnr9 on Jun 27, 2020 16:18:08 GMT
Is there anybody out there that would answer me? My social anxiety is really getting the better of me. I feel like no one is choosing to respond to my post because I am such a bad person. I’m not sure if this is true or not. I am have clearly been very selfish in a relationship with a very kind man. And I just don’t know what to do. Hey Claire......hang in there...let me read....
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 27, 2020 16:29:43 GMT
I have been finding a lot of comfort in following this forum the last few months! I am hoping to get some input on my own ongoing uncertainty about my long term relationship. I have been with my partner for 15 years. We met when we were both 22. I am anxious preoccupied in general although it has never been a big issue in our relationship because my partner is so secure. I feel incredibly comfortable and safe with him. I guess what I should have said there is that I have had a tendency to display protest behaviours in the past but it never escalated to a two- way issue because he just seems to deal with it well. I have improved a lot since we had our first child 5 years ago and I feel like I’m getting better all the time with my communication, especially with what I am learning on this forum. The problem is this....I am unsure what my feelings are for him. Here are the reasons: I have not wanted to have sex with him in 14 years. I often turn my cheek when he leans in for a kiss. I often feel like I have no interest in the topics of conversation he brings up and wish he would stop talking and leave me alone. I find him a bit boring and I’m frustrated that he doesn’t share appreciation for a lot of the things I do. After reading about Anne12’s posts about the concept of masculinity/ feminity - I think I sense more feminity from him than what I find attractive. So what do people think. We have 2 children, we have a friendship. Why do I have these doubts and would it be selfish to break up our relationship because I feel I am missing something? I should also note that at this point, although I am working on it, I am far from secure. To be honest I have never discovered who I am and when we got together I had no concept of what I found attractive, what I wanted, what was important to me. So I feel like, because he was such a great friend I just went with it. Hey Claire.....I completely understand..and no, you are not a bad person...you are human. I suspect if there was a poll....there would be a lot more people who, like you, discovered that they really aren’t sure about how they actually feel about their partner after being together for x number of years. In fact, I was with an FA man in my early 20s for 3 years and even though he was attractive, intelligent, had a good job, his parents liked me....I cheated on him with a narcissist from work who swept me off my feet and then dumped me. I could make this about the guy I left or the narc I chased after...but at the core, I just did not know how to be in a healthy relationship....and after 3 years, I found myself questioning my feelings and looking for that “high” that I assumed was love. I say this because I want to provide you with some perspective...you are not alone, you are not a bad person. Have you talked to a therapist about this? Not necessarily a marriage counselor...but just someone who you can share these feelings with and get validation and input from. I think that would be a good first step...to have an ally in your court.
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Post by mrob on Jun 28, 2020 6:09:55 GMT
If anybody on this forum needs proof that getting together with a secure does not fix insecure attachment, this is a perfect example.
My second wife was secure. Always will be. I intuitively knew she was from the time we met. I wasn’t looking for the dangerous sparks and craziness, I was ready for peace and order. What was going on for her was that her biological clock was ticking and she was looking to get her ducks in a row.
So I didn’t have the fireworks, but had all the benefits that went with secure attachment and battled with it inside. I thought I was mad. I went to therapy more than once, couldn’t let go of my own house, and eventually sabotaged everything by having an affair and having all the fake fireworks with someone as unhealthy and unavailable as me.
Insecure attachment doesn’t go away miraculously because one is with a secure. It bubbles away, manifesting in other ways.
Being here is a good start to looking to change.
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Post by mrob on Jun 28, 2020 6:51:53 GMT
I’m sorry. I do my best to be openminded, but that’s a bit too out there for me.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 28, 2020 8:20:17 GMT
claire81, you're not a terrible person. You got together young and didn't know how much you had to unpack. Society doesn't talk about insecure attachment, it talks about passionate love, white picket fences, and happily ever after. A lot of people struggling with this on these boards are in their 30s+, and I don't think that's a coincidence. It's because they didn't know to ask the questions since society doesn't broadly discuss it, or that the questions have answers, until life got painful enough. If you have a secure partner, and the relationship is still stable after all this time with a close friendship, I wouldn't leave yet. I whole-heartedly agree with mrob and have posted in the past that the only way to heal your own insecure attachment is to do the work, committed and self-motivated. However, there are benefits to having a secure partner if you want to be in a relationship in general and are working through this stuff. Like often attracts like, and insecure attachment folks often (unconsciously) are attracted to each other and "bored" by secures. Your ambivalence for your husband, believe it or not, is totally normal for an AP, and I can almost guarantee you would happen with any secure partner (if you were able to find another) if you haven't yet gotten secure enough yourself. The benefit of having a secure partner in this part of the process, though, first and foremost, is they don't trigger you. I'm earned secure from AP, with so many years of dating every avoidant guy you can imagine. Anyone with an insecure attachment style spends plenty of time getting triggered by things, often by themselves, because of the unprocessed background trauma from earlier in life getting projected all over things. In the case of AP specifically, this is anything that activates your fear of abandonment. If you do not have a secure partner, then you have someone with their own attachment issues butting heads with yours. AP and AP generally don't attract each other (the boredom you feel with your secure would be amplified with someone more anxious than you, and you'd simply be put off by it). But pair AP with FA or DA, who respond to their own triggers by distancing and avoiding emotional issues, intimacy, vulnerability, and conflict resolution, and suddenly you've got your triggers plus your partner's behavior constantly triggering you on top of that (they respond to stress by wanting to move away while AP at the same time want to relieve anxiety by moving closer). And it'll feel passionate and overwhelming and cause an enormous amount of stress as it will never, ever be stable. This undermines one of the tasks you need to do to earn secure, which is learn to recognize and manage your own triggers, which for AP means learning to self-regulate, until you've healed enough that they start to just go away. In the process of earning secure, you need a lot of focus on yourself and free space to do that. I'm not going to lie, it's a tough, painful process that can easily take a couple years -- but don't let that dissuade you because it CAN be done! A long-term, committed secure partner should be able to give you a safe home base while you're doing the work. Another insecure can't do that because they can't de-personalize your needs and can't communicate when they can't deal with the situation. Part of the belief that having a secure partner is the "magic bullet" that fixes your attachment is they model healthy relating and stability and don't upset your nervous system. In my opinion, without your own work, this allows you have a secure attachment with that partner but doesn't change your overall insecure attachment style and the challenges that go with it. Back to your situation specifically. AP feel "boredom" with secures because they have issues with their own identity and their own self-acceptance, but there's a disconnect with yourself that makes it hard to understand that. So those feelings of ambivalence, that are actually about yourself, get projected onto your partner. This is NOT intuitive, and takes real introspection and digging into your past and your pain (pain from before your partner) to understand. But it's related to APs not being able to regulate their own emotions properly, looking to others to do it for them, and being conditioned to also feel they need to regulate everyone else's while everyone else regulates you. It's a boundary problem. Yet what it feels like is, your attachment wounds aren't getting triggered, your nervous system isn't getting overwhelmed, so you must not feel the highs of attraction and instead feel bored. But if you dig enough layers down, you'll see this isn't true. You would have to talk to your husband about this, very deeply, if you haven't already, and continue your therapy. I don't think at all you should tell him you doubt your attraction to him, but you should tell him about your AP attachment. That you have baggage stuffed down that's impacted your relationship and connection to yourself and you want to address it because it's made you unhappy and disconnected from both yourself and him, but you need some space and patience because it's a rough process. The space I found I needed was to pick up some of my own hobbies and challenges I wanted to do, not for anyone but myself. Not to impress anyone, not to validate myself, just because I was interested and maybe embarrassed and never tried it because it wasn't "cool" enough or I didn't feel confident in my ability to do it without failing (and then learning to fail gracefully). And not do it to branch out and meet new people to distract myself with heady new connections, really just having some space to make a couple things my own and learn more about what I liked and who I am. It's a lengthy process that will change you, and there's no guarantees that when you do connect with yourself that your husband will be the right match. But if he's secure, as your own boundaries strengthen and improve and your connection with yourself grows and your ability to communicate and to understand your own needs improves, eventually I'd expect your emotional connection with him and appreciation for the long-term love and friendship you share would grow too and the attraction will start to return. Or, you'll be secure enough to have confidence and trust in yourself that you two grew too far apart and can end it amicably. Either way is a win! But I think it's too soon to throw in the towel just yet, when you're early in your process of getting more secure. Good luck
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 28, 2020 12:24:44 GMT
claire81 , you're not a terrible person. You got together young and didn't know how much you had to unpack. Society doesn't talk about insecure attachment, it talks about passionate love, white picket fences, and happily ever after. A lot of people struggling with this on these boards are in their 30s+, and I don't think that's a coincidence. It's because they didn't know to ask the questions since society doesn't broadly discuss it, or that the questions have answers, until life got painful enough. If you have a secure partner, and the relationship is still stable after all this time with a close friendship, I wouldn't leave yet. I whole-heartedly agree with mrob and have posted in the past that the only way to heal your own insecure attachment is to do the work, committed and self-motivated. However, there are benefits to having a secure partner if you want to be in a relationship in general and are working through this stuff. Like often attracts like, and insecure attachment folks often (unconsciously) are attracted to each other and "bored" by secures. Your ambivalence for your husband, believe it or not, is totally normal for an AP, and I can almost guarantee you would happen with any secure partner (if you were able to find another) if you haven't yet gotten secure enough yourself. The benefit of having a secure partner in this part of the process, though, first and foremost, is they don't trigger you. I'm earned secure from AP, with so many years of dating every avoidant guy you can imagine. Anyone with an insecure attachment style spends plenty of time getting triggered by things, often by themselves, because of the unprocessed background trauma from earlier in life getting projected all over things. In the case of AP specifically, this is anything that activates your fear of abandonment. If you do not have a secure partner, then you have someone with their own attachment issues butting heads with yours. AP and AP generally don't attract each other (the boredom you feel with your secure would be amplified with someone more anxious than you, and you'd simply be put off by it). But pair AP with FA or DA, who respond to their own triggers by distancing and avoiding emotional issues, intimacy, vulnerability, and conflict resolution, and suddenly you've got your triggers plus your partner's behavior constantly triggering you on top of that (they respond to stress by wanting to move away while AP at the same time want to relieve anxiety by moving closer). And it'll feel passionate and overwhelming and cause an enormous amount of stress as it will never, ever be stable. This undermines one of the tasks you need to do to earn secure, which is learn to recognize and manage your own triggers, which for AP means learning to self-regulate, until you've healed enough that they start to just go away. In the process of earning secure, you need a lot of focus on yourself and free space to do that. I'm not going to lie, it's a tough, painful process that can easily take a couple years -- but don't let that dissuade you because it CAN be done! A long-term, committed secure partner should be able to give you a safe home base while you're doing the work. Another insecure can't do that because they can't de-personalize your needs and can't communicate when they can't deal with the situation. Part of the belief that having a secure partner is the "magic bullet" that fixes your attachment is they model healthy relating and stability and don't upset your nervous system. In my opinion, without your own work, this allows you have a secure attachment with that partner but doesn't change your overall insecure attachment style and the challenges that go with it. Back to your situation specifically. AP feel "boredom" with secures because they have issues with their own identity and their own self-acceptance, but there's a disconnect with yourself that makes it hard to understand that. So those feelings of ambivalence, that are actually about yourself, get projected onto your partner. This is NOT intuitive, and takes real introspection and digging into your past and your pain (pain from before your partner) to understand. But it's related to APs not being able to regulate their own emotions properly, looking to others to do it for them, and being conditioned to also feel they need to regulate everyone else's while everyone else regulates you. It's a boundary problem. Yet what it feels like is, your attachment wounds aren't getting triggered, your nervous system isn't getting overwhelmed, so you must not feel the highs of attraction and instead feel bored. But if you dig enough layers down, you'll see this isn't true. You would have to talk to your husband about this, very deeply, if you haven't already, and continue your therapy. I don't think at all you should tell him you doubt your attraction to him, but you should tell him about your AP attachment. That you have baggage stuffed down that's impacted your relationship and connection to yourself and you want to address it because it's made you unhappy and disconnected from both yourself and him, but you need some space and patience because it's a rough process. The space I found I needed was to pick up some of my own hobbies and challenges I wanted to do, not for anyone but myself. Not to impress anyone, not to validate myself, just because I was interested and maybe embarrassed and never tried it because it wasn't "cool" enough or I didn't feel confident in my ability to do it without failing (and then learning to fail gracefully). And not do it to branch out and meet new people to distract myself with heady new connections, really just having some space to make a couple things my own and learn more about what I liked and who I am. It's a lengthy process that will change you, and there's no guarantees that when you do connect with yourself that your husband will be the right match. But if he's secure, as your own boundaries strengthen and improve and your connection with yourself grows and your ability to communicate and to understand your own needs improves, eventually I'd expect your emotional connection with him and appreciation for the long-term love and friendship you share would grow too and the attraction will start to return. Or, you'll be secure enough to have confidence and trust in yourself that you two grew too far apart and can end it amicably. Either way is a win! But I think it's too soon to throw in the towel just yet, when you're early in your process of getting more secure. Good luck Claire...I agree with Alexandra....you have a great opportunity to explore your needs/wants/attachment related issues within your marriage. If you notice, a lot of people try to address their attachment issues within an insecure relationship where the partner will add complexities by triggering them back into the very patterns they are trying to break free of...in your case, you have a stable home base by which to explore and tackle your issues in a loving and self caring way. I have found that loving myself as I am has led to me taking things less personally and in that success, I have seen changes in my relationship with my mom.
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kelly
New Member
Posts: 47
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Post by kelly on Jun 30, 2020 1:53:38 GMT
claire81, you're not a terrible person. You got together young and didn't know how much you had to unpack. Society doesn't talk about insecure attachment, it talks about passionate love, white picket fences, and happily ever after. A lot of people struggling with this on these boards are in their 30s+, and I don't think that's a coincidence. It's because they didn't know to ask the questions since society doesn't broadly discuss it, or that the questions have answers, until life got painful enough. If you have a secure partner, and the relationship is still stable after all this time with a close friendship, I wouldn't leave yet. I whole-heartedly agree with mrob and have posted in the past that the only way to heal your own insecure attachment is to do the work, committed and self-motivated. However, there are benefits to having a secure partner if you want to be in a relationship in general and are working through this stuff. Like often attracts like, and insecure attachment folks often (unconsciously) are attracted to each other and "bored" by secures. Your ambivalence for your husband, believe it or not, is totally normal for an AP, and I can almost guarantee you would happen with any secure partner (if you were able to find another) if you haven't yet gotten secure enough yourself. The benefit of having a secure partner in this part of the process, though, first and foremost, is they don't trigger you. I'm earned secure from AP, with so many years of dating every avoidant guy you can imagine. Anyone with an insecure attachment style spends plenty of time getting triggered by things, often by themselves, because of the unprocessed background trauma from earlier in life getting projected all over things. In the case of AP specifically, this is anything that activates your fear of abandonment. If you do not have a secure partner, then you have someone with their own attachment issues butting heads with yours. AP and AP generally don't attract each other (the boredom you feel with your secure would be amplified with someone more anxious than you, and you'd simply be put off by it). But pair AP with FA or DA, who respond to their own triggers by distancing and avoiding emotional issues, intimacy, vulnerability, and conflict resolution, and suddenly you've got your triggers plus your partner's behavior constantly triggering you on top of that (they respond to stress by wanting to move away while AP at the same time want to relieve anxiety by moving closer). And it'll feel passionate and overwhelming and cause an enormous amount of stress as it will never, ever be stable. This undermines one of the tasks you need to do to earn secure, which is learn to recognize and manage your own triggers, which for AP means learning to self-regulate, until you've healed enough that they start to just go away. In the process of earning secure, you need a lot of focus on yourself and free space to do that. I'm not going to lie, it's a tough, painful process that can easily take a couple years -- but don't let that dissuade you because it CAN be done! A long-term, committed secure partner should be able to give you a safe home base while you're doing the work. Another insecure can't do that because they can't de-personalize your needs and can't communicate when they can't deal with the situation. Part of the belief that having a secure partner is the "magic bullet" that fixes your attachment is they model healthy relating and stability and don't upset your nervous system. In my opinion, without your own work, this allows you have a secure attachment with that partner but doesn't change your overall insecure attachment style and the challenges that go with it. Back to your situation specifically. AP feel "boredom" with secures because they have issues with their own identity and their own self-acceptance, but there's a disconnect with yourself that makes it hard to understand that. So those feelings of ambivalence, that are actually about yourself, get projected onto your partner. This is NOT intuitive, and takes real introspection and digging into your past and your pain (pain from before your partner) to understand. But it's related to APs not being able to regulate their own emotions properly, looking to others to do it for them, and being conditioned to also feel they need to regulate everyone else's while everyone else regulates you. It's a boundary problem. Yet what it feels like is, your attachment wounds aren't getting triggered, your nervous system isn't getting overwhelmed, so you must not feel the highs of attraction and instead feel bored. But if you dig enough layers down, you'll see this isn't true. You would have to talk to your husband about this, very deeply, if you haven't already, and continue your therapy. I don't think at all you should tell him you doubt your attraction to him, but you should tell him about your AP attachment. That you have baggage stuffed down that's impacted your relationship and connection to yourself and you want to address it because it's made you unhappy and disconnected from both yourself and him, but you need some space and patience because it's a rough process. The space I found I needed was to pick up some of my own hobbies and challenges I wanted to do, not for anyone but myself. Not to impress anyone, not to validate myself, just because I was interested and maybe embarrassed and never tried it because it wasn't "cool" enough or I didn't feel confident in my ability to do it without failing (and then learning to fail gracefully). And not do it to branch out and meet new people to distract myself with heady new connections, really just having some space to make a couple things my own and learn more about what I liked and who I am. It's a lengthy process that will change you, and there's no guarantees that when you do connect with yourself that your husband will be the right match. But if he's secure, as your own boundaries strengthen and improve and your connection with yourself grows and your ability to communicate and to understand your own needs improves, eventually I'd expect your emotional connection with him and appreciation for the long-term love and friendship you share would grow too and the attraction will start to return. Or, you'll be secure enough to have confidence and trust in yourself that you two grew too far apart and can end it amicably. Either way is a win! But I think it's too soon to throw in the towel just yet, when you're early in your process of getting more secure. Good luck This is so helpful for me too. I struggle so much with being “bored” and “no chemistry” with secures. I feel addicted to my DA “situationship” even though he keeps me in turmoil. I have a lovely SECURE man interested in me and I can’t seem to find any real attraction. I recognize it for what it is, but I just don’t know how to overcome it and my addiction to the DA. Sometimes I want to cry because I’m so frustrated with myself and this situation. Not trying to hijack this thread. Just wanted to say that I, too, appreciate this advice. Thank you to those of you that spend a lot of your time replying and offering help to others. A lot of us don’t have anyone else to talk to about this.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 30, 2020 6:41:32 GMT
Alexandra, You mentioned that you did not think I should share with my partner that I am in doubt about my feelings. I didn't say that. I said you shouldn't outright tell him you aren't (sexually) attracted to him. Because it's personally hurtful but not the true underlying issue. I think you've done a lot of projection here about how he feels from the framework of how you would feel in his situation. I've been both AP and secure, and I can tell you concretely that the two mindsets and thought patterns are nothing alike. He knew how you were when he married you. It's very common for someone with an insecure attachment style to have a lot of issues and a more tumultuous life than a secure for a lot of reasons. If he really is secure, he doesn't need as much space as you do to deal with things as they come up because he comes equipped with better tools he had the opportunity that you didn't to learn early in life. He made a commitment and it sounds like he loves you for who you are, not all he needs you to give him. That doesn't mean he's long-suffering. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't but it's difficult for me to believe he'd still be in this amiably if he didn't like who you are. So cut yourself some slack about what he deserves and what he doesn't, and take him at face value when he shares his feelings. Should you treat him as well as you can? Of course, but you need to get your side of things straightened out first before you'll have the capacity to do that (or to decide you have grown in a different direction instead). It's a cliche, but also true, if you don't love yourself first, you can't show up for anyone else.
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