Asking for support.. That feel's scary. | Jeb Kinnison Attachment Type Forum

basil1234
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Asking for support.. That feel's scary. Jul 14, 2020 16:14:30 GMT

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Post by basil1234 on Jul 14, 2020 16:14:30 GMT

Hello everyone,

I'm pretty new here, though I have been reading through pretty much every single thread in this dismissive-avoidance section. My heart has jumped a few times at the recognition I felt in your stories and the process to heal. I'm so grateful to find this place, right in the moment I feel I need it the most..

Right now it feels like I am going through some very intense uncovering / grieving of what is essentially underneath my DA strategies, of which the most prominent one is dissociation. It feels like years of frozen tears underneath the dissociation are moving out of every cell in my body; and if it wasn't for finding this place, finding hope and healing in your words, that I've probably thought I would be going insane.

I have a few questions to those who have walked or are walking this path of healing.

- I guess it is necessary to feel what has been repressed all this time. But sometimes I wonder if Im not re-traumatizing myself by letting myself feel all this?

- Is it normal to feel, while in this process, even more dissociated from reality? I'm hoping that by moving through all this frozen energy I can eventually connect more easily with people, without the dissociation that I have been doing - but I dont see that result as of yet, which makes me wonder if that is ok and normal?

- I am in the very early stages with someone also DA, and we are both very committed to healing and doing the work. I am starting to wonder though if being with another DA can provide the essential disconfirming experience that it is actually safe to be seen etc. We talk through everything and all our triggers, which is helpful, but I wonder if anyone has experience? And how did you learn to co-regulate? It seems that we can be around each other because we accept eachothers auto-regulation and deactivation strategies, which is nice, but how to go from there towards real intimacy?

I'm a little bit confused in the messy murky waters of healing. Hoping to find some support; just asking for that feels so hard, as I am so used to just rely on myself. I have just come to realise how much aloneness is underneath the cover up of not needing anyone.

I have been reading through these threads with tears in my eyes, it has been of massive value. Thank you thank you, all you fellow DA sisters and brothers.

anne12
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Asking for support.. That feel's scary. Jul 14, 2020 16:50:08 GMT

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Post by anne12 on Jul 14, 2020 16:50:08 GMT

basil1234
Hi basil 🙂
- yes you can get overwhelmed when you suddenly start to feel.
The Main state/feeling for the avoidant: Anxiety (am I going to survive ?) They do not feel this, because they have closed off from feeling from their neck and down.

The energy in their body goes up from their body and up in the head. This can give them tension around the head and can give them a headace.

In SE /,attatchment therapy, the therapist can work with something called titration, pendulation:
To help the avoidant to get from their head to their body an se/attatchment therapist can use titrating, where the therapist talks to the cognitive part of the persons brain and then helps the person to go down in the body for a short while and then Up in the head again. The technique is from SE .
Also pendulation can be a good tool. Also a SE technique. The therapist can also use touch, But in the beginning the avoidant would think that it is weird to be tousched.

Because avoidants often are up in their head, having trouble feeling their body and their feelings the therapist has to be carefull not to owerwhelm the client when the avoidant starts to feel.

Avoidants are often good at visualising things.

You can use some regulating tools so that you do not get overwhelmed. When avoidants start to feel they can use the watertank exersice, orienting exercise ect. You can also try to ground with your eyeballs, as it can be difficult to ground with your body

jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-regulation-exercises-ect

Using the kind eyes exercise every day can also be helpful. I remember goldilocks said, that it made her body smile

It also makes me smile...
m.youtube.com/watch?v=leVxB1l5NiY

ocarina also had some avoidant attatchmentstyle

Theres also this healing thread which can be usefull to you
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1071/healing-avoidant-da-attatchmentstyle

Are you in therapy ?
For how long have you been together with your partner ?
How avoidant are you ? (Everything is on a spectrum - people often also got some fa and other kind of chock trauma ect.)
How avoidant is your partner ?

Suggestions of what you can practise:

Discover and experience that the world is (relative) safe and friendly
Discover that you belong
Join your life instead of observing it. Take the driver's seat!
Allow your vulnerability to have wishes and needs in relation to other people
Develop your empathy for your own and others' needs, wishes, desires, dreams, feelings, etc. Practice feeling your body and your passion
Practice talking about your inner thoughts, needs and feelings - to share with your loved ones
Develop your trust that there is support from other people. Practice reaching out and asking for this
Practice appreciating your relationships and other people
If you walk away, get back to your partner quickly and repair
Go into therapy to experience another human being supporting you and helping you with all the old scares and rejections
Practise joint attention activities - go for a walk side by side with a friend, your partner ect.
Practise approching other people
Work with a therapist to help you to be better, at reading facial expression in others and social cues.
Practise sending and receiving a beam gleam
Hug your partner (often not as threatening as looking into eachothers eyes)

Practise beeing precent:
Indulge yourself by showing your body and heart care. You can do it with a spa day, relaxing massage, freshly squeezed juice, healthy diet, meditation, fun music, good night's sleep, breathing exercises, fun with friends and nature experiences. The purpose is to do everything with presence and attention. Then you can get more in touch
with yourself, and your need for presence and love.

Focus on the good:
You already have good things in your life. Practice focusing on it. Maybe you have a good job, good friends, colleagues, partner, good health , a nice home. If you think 'No, there's nothing good in my life right now' then focus on 'something' you really care about. It may be nature, a hobby, your pet that you are / has been closely tied to. In short, your thoughts make your reality. For the simple reason, focus on the good and nutritious, rather than the negative and draining.

More:
Help to get from your head to your feelings and your body:

- yoga
- massage
- showers where you concetrate on feeling the water on your skin
- mindfulness
- self- and co-regulating exercises
- bodywork
- dance (with or without a partner)
- practise joint attention activities - go for a walk side by side with a friend, your partner ect.

Last Edit: Jul 16, 2020 9:48:06 GMT by anne12

alexandra
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Asking for support.. That feel's scary. Jul 14, 2020 17:27:40 GMT via mobile mrob likes this

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Post by alexandra on Jul 14, 2020 17:27:40 GMT

Welcome basil1234. Posting to ask for help is courageous and a good step!

"I guess it is necessary to feel what has been repressed all this time. But sometimes I wonder if Im not re-traumatizing myself by letting myself feel all this?"

This is what the problem is for insecure attachers of all types. They lack the tools to actually process the trauma they feel, which is why it got locked up and pushed down. You do need to feel the emotions and pain, understand it, understand your narrative around it, and come to terms with it, but you need to do it in a way that's reconstructing it in a productive way not just wallowing in it until you shut down again.

I agree with anne12 totally that you should look into somatic experience therapy. And search the forum for posts about it (SE therapy). A few members have had really good things to say about how it's helped them process stuck emotions when nothing else moved them forward. I think sherry was posting about it (she's not on the forum anymore but also used the username inmourning), and tnr9 has been doing it though she's not DA.

You've probably already read through, but juniper (who isn't on the forum anymore either) dated another DA quite successfully when she was around the part of the process stage that you're in. The similar needs and slow speed of the relationship seemed to really help her achieve some more intimacy without getting triggered to shut down. If I remember correctly, her partner wasn't earning secure, or wasn't doing it at the speed she was or same commitment to self-improvement, and eventually they grew out of that romantic relationship and she later found a new partner with greater capacity for intimacy to match hers that she was happy with.

Good luck. You're correct this will be hard, painful work and it can take quite some time to heal and recondition your nervous system. But your quality of life will drastically improve as you're no longer stuck in unconscious patterns and dysfunctional coping mechanisms (such as disassociation), and you can start making the choices you actually want to meet your needs and have more fulfilling relationships of all types with others.

Last Edit: Jul 14, 2020 17:30:28 GMT by alexandra

anne12
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Asking for support.. That feel's scary. Jul 15, 2020 6:29:43 GMT via mobile

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Post by anne12 on Jul 15, 2020 6:29:43 GMT

You asked "how can I co regulate with my partner":

You and your partner have to make a conscious choise every single day to love eachother, giving your relationship and the other person meaning.
When You are in a relationship love is a daily choise and not just a feeling. People can often forget this in their daily life. Choose to love your partner every single day. Love is nurtured by the actions you take in the relationship on a daily basis. Instead of waiting to receive, take steps to show your love for the other person.

The problem can be if none of you are reaching out and trying to get in contact with the other person.

How can the avoidant help themselves to come out of deactivation/dessociation:
They tend to distract themselves when they feel stressed and overwhelmed with activities that promote disconnection from others by:

Surfing the internet
Playing computer games
Watching tv
Reading books
Meditating
Sit in their own favorite chair away from you in the livingroom
stay in the garage
Ect

Instead they can try to focus on physical embodiment and emotional presense.
Instead of choosing to zone out, they can try to engage with their partner/with other people and to connect with them.
Because this can be challeging in the beginning, they can make concious decisions about when to do so and with whom until it feels natural.

As an avoidant, you can make a list with your friends names and phonenumbers and put the list on the fridge to be able to remember, who you can reach out to. You can also put up pictures around your house, with your friends and family members or put pictures of your loved ones in your smartphone.

If the avoidant texts or call, they can ask how are things with your new job, did you bye a new car ect., but they do not ask about how you are/how you are feeling ect. You can try to ask different kind of questions.

The energy in their body goes up from their body and up in the head. This can give them tension around the head and can give them a headace.

Try simply to ask for something you need. (something to drink, getting someone to help you around the house ect) or sharing a story about your Day.

Also practise joint attention. Choose something that will include the other person in the activity and in your experience as it unfolds.

Ex. Dining out, hiking, going for a scenic drive, visiting a museum ect.
Do the best to connect to your partner or friend.
Hang in there long enough, to find out how such a thing can actually nurich you.

Eyecontact:
As the avoidant can feel shame looking into other peoples eyes and by getting an eyegaze back (they often look at other peoples nose, teeth or chin without even knowing it themselves) they can try to practise looking into their partners/other peoples eyes and then look away and then look back again, trying to do this without getting overwhelmed.

If it is too difficult, they can start with a hug belly to belly.

You can as an avoidant practise sharing more of your own personal stories with a few more details and try if you can find any emotional nuances.

Try to listen with more attention, precence and patience when other people share. Even if it feels unnatural you can try it out. Sharing this way is one of the foundations of a satisfying relationship.

Gesture:
Also try if you can greet and welcome others. Leaning into others for support,. give an eyegaze, reaching out for hugs

Needs:
Practise expressing your needs. Basic human needs are natural in all relationships. And you and others are allowed to express them. Maybe you do not even know what your own needs are. Try to write them down and ask your partner, friend ect to meet one of your needs.

Also try to FEEL if you are hungry ect. when your partner asks you. As a DA you can have a tendency to look at your watch to find out what time it is, to find out if you are hungry or not.

Be aware of your partners bids for connection
m.youtube.com/watch?v=ib7Ain2aVR0
Emotional bank account:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=QHN2EKd9tuE

Are two avoidants able to create a relationship ?
CJ Liu who is an avoidant in a relationship with an avoidant talks to Stan Tatkin on how to create intimacy in a relationship:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=2hgBOk88AoI

Avoidants are often more masculine in
their core by nature. But the masculine is out of balance. They are good at focusing at one thing at a time. Their mental state is quite the same every day. They are good at using the cognitive part of their brain. They are the kings of logic.

The problem can be if there is enough polarity between the feminine and the masculine between you to keep the attraction and the sexlife going.

Similarities in relationships provide security, but can also cause boredom, if there are too many similarities.
Differences can give attraction and sparks.

Equality creates security
Diversity creates sparks and attraction.

In relationships it is recommended:

1)Spiritually - equality is good
2)Mentally - polarity is good
3)Emotionally - equality is good
4)Physical - polarity is good including the feminine and the masculine

Ad2)How to think. Ex one is visionary and the other curious and inquiring
Ad3)That both are emotional, that both are sensitive, that both are insensitive ect.
Ad4)The more masculine one is and the more feminine the other is the more physical attraction in the relationship.

The masculine is to give his gifts
The feminine is to receive with grace
The masculine is fed by the feminine energy.

To avoidants the purpose of dating/having a relationship:
On the unconscious level they think of a relationship in practical terms:
It is more beneficial when we are two people racing our kids, it is easier to get sex, we can save more energy/ money when we are a household of two grownups participating ect.

Maybe if you and your partner are not acting avoidant at the same time,....?
You share the same voularbility....

It is said that it is difficult for two ambivalents to have a relationship. But if they are not "ON" at the same time it can actually work
Maybe if two avoidants are not "OFF" at the same time it can maybe work ....

What kind of relationship do you want and need ?
Do you know that ?

Sternberg's triangular theory of love
m.youtube.com/watch?v=wy21ZXZA8Bc

Last Edit: Jul 17, 2020 3:54:29 GMT by anne12

anne12
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Asking for support.. That feel's scary. Jul 15, 2020 8:25:05 GMT

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Post by anne12 on Jul 15, 2020 8:25:05 GMT

You write that you and your partner are good at talking to eachother ....
On which level do you talk ?

There are 4 types of contact in relationships:

1. Superficial talk, indifference, you talk about the weather ect.
Often used at parties, receptions, at work, first time meetings.Also in relationships. Expecially in the dating phase. With friends.
There can be a lot of play, celebration associated with this form of contact. You can learn a lot about other people at this level.
Some people do not like to communicate in this way and withdraw and isolate themselves

Some avoidants sometimes interacts at this level. It's without emotional interaction, and that's why some of them can do this. Some avoidants can be very funny and outgoing.
If you continue at this level, you never really get any deeper. This can make it hard to get a boyfriend, as a woman you can have a hard time to get boyfriends - because you become one of the guys.

2)
Personally engaged conversation but without emotion. Here we talk about politics, science, technology, dreams events ect
The avoidant likes to talk and interact at this level.
You talk about the others, your colleagues, non-committal talk. At a party, you can ask what a person loves to do.

3) Confidentiality, confessions:
We talk about things, other people and how we feel about other people, ex my boss makes me feel ... .We can also gossip about other people. You talk about your feelings but not in the precent moment. Ex. the time you did that, it made me feel xxxx.
Ambivalents like to talk and interact at this level. You talk about feelings but not about the precent moment.

4) Feelings - you / me
The deep communication
Expressions of authentic emotions
I feel xxxx for you right now
I'm angry with you because you ...
I like you / love you
I get upset, when you...
It bothers me when you ...
I feel humbled when you say.....

The direct contact. You tell in the present how you feel about your partner.
Ex.
I feel warmth around my 💓, as I sit here talking to you.
I feel uneasy in the solar plexus, when I talk to you. I'm nervous about what you are going to say to me now...

The ambivalent likes to talk at this level
Some desorganised attatched likes to talk at this level but they can overshare.

It is human contact without defense and reservations
This is where we feel the importance of our existence in relation to ourselves and other people
Here, genuine contact, openness, security and trust is created

Make sure that you and your partner uses this form of contact with eachother from time to time to create and keep the feeling of intimacy in the relationship.

It takes the courage to be voulnarble in these kind of conversations. To talk about your shame ect.

Couples exercise:

Set aside 8 minutes of undisturbed time
Direct contact for 4 minutes - 2 minutes for each
Talk about how it was - 2 minutes for each
Direct contact is that you tell the other what you feel and feel in the body right now that relates to the other in this moment.

Let the avoidant partner look away from time to time because otherwise it can be overwhelming for them ..

There are not many words in the direct contact. Ex. when I sit here and look at you, I feel a little uncomfortable, but when I look you in the eyes, I get touched and I can feel warmth in the body and I can feel my heart.

It can be positive emotions and sensations, and they tend to be the easy ones.

The neutral emotions can sometimes be ok easy too.

The negatives can be severe (re). This is where your willingness to show vulnerability comes into play. And at the same time the other manages to be inclusive and understanding or just accepting.
So you both can be with what is now in this moment.

Connection exercise - Rocking the attachment exercise:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=EoAqXh8hOZ4

Last Edit: Jul 17, 2020 6:31:04 GMT by anne12

mrob
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Asking for support.. That feel's scary. Jul 17, 2020 3:10:13 GMT

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Post by mrob on Jul 17, 2020 3:10:13 GMT

basil1234 sherry, juniper and inmourning. If you search both, you'll see that change is possible. It's a beautiful story, full of lumps and bumps, but she's truly a person of courage and feeling, unlike the usual portrayal of DA attachment. This forum is much the poorer for her not being here any more.

Last Edit: Jul 17, 2020 3:11:19 GMT by mrob

basil1234
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Asking for support.. That feel's scary. Aug 24, 2020 12:03:40 GMT

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Post by basil1234 on Aug 24, 2020 12:03:40 GMT

anne12 en all of you,

Thank you so much for your help, insights and knowledge!!

I digested all your words en looked into all the suggested video's etc. Also had a first session with a Somatic Experiencing therapist and also started therapy with another therapist.

I can relate so much to what you are all saying and very gratefull for all your advice and recommendations!

I think I'm doing a classic DA thing to take so long to respond.. I held a lot of gratefulness for your words, but also a lot of shame about asking for it, and it felt like I had to come up with the perfect reply. So I guess the best thing to do is just to acknowledge this in honesty.

Things have become rather interesting and unusual.. And I wonder if I'm actually still in the right section of this forum (and I feel shame for maybe having put this in the wrong place even).

I was moving through A LOT of emotions, which was very confusing, overwhelming, but clearing at the same time. Your comments about pendulation and titration etc helped with that, and also connecting more through a perspective of awareness from where to allow everything. At some point the emotions were still very strong, I got triggered a lot, but I did not dissociate, just let everything move through.

At some point something switched and I came to some quiet place within, felt a lot of love for everything.. It was a nice experience, but..

Suddenly I feel I'm thrown into the opposite side of the attachment spectrum. I think I'm actually more fearful avoidant than dismissive! Under all the dissociation came a massive fear of abandonment / not being good enough / fear of rejection

And this has also progressed into the process with the guy I'm seeing.

anne12; you asked which kind of conversations we have. We mainly hang out in 4; talking about feelings and deep stuff, but not in the present moment. This really resonated with me and I also shared that with him. We are open, very open about things, but not vulnerable. Since we have started going more to the present moment feelings, and things are becoming more vulnerable, which is triggering him BIG TIME, and he is deactivating in all ways possible (including having interests in other girls).

We talk about it, and usually are able to see that we are triggered, and that it has nothing to do with reality, but it is our activated wounds. Then usually we can connect again after some sharing/processing.

But, what is absolutely bedazzeling to me is that I'm being thrown into a complete anxious side of the spectrum. I did not really experience this before. But I guess him being even more dismissive then me is really activating this wound of inadequacy. Struggling to navigate that big time, I have to admit I find it way more comfortable on the distant side of the spectrum.

I am also very confused about weather this is just a great opportunity to work through these wounds together, there being so much open, honest conversation and a big willingness on both sides at working on ourselves, or weather all this activated stuff is not helpful at all. When do you commit to really working this stuff through together, or when do you draw a line. Obviously we are such analyzers people that we tend to analyze this stuff to the bottom instead of feeling what it is we want. Were thinking of taking a break to figure that out, but at the same time questioning weather that would just be deactivating and not helpful. Any insights? Thank you guys so much for your kind and considerate replies!!