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Post by lurker on Sept 22, 2017 8:56:10 GMT
For those of you who don't know about it, there are extremely promising results from trials with MDMA as a tool for assisting with psychotherapy for PTSD. 83 percent of those treated in Stage II trials, all of whom were previously treatment resistant, have been literally cured of the condition after three months of the therapy, by which I mean they no longer meet the criteria for the diagnosis of PTSD.
These are extraordinary results with implications for all of psychiatry and, honestly, all of society. Trauma is at the root of innumerous social problems, and the thought that it could be almost completely cured is potentially a world changing event.
As attachment insecurity is a result of trauma, and as the basis of the successful therapy is that MDMA allows the patient to undergo an experience of secure attachment to themselves and to their therapist by silencing their amygdala (disengaging fight or flight, fear and the associated defense mechanisms) and boosting oxytocin (trust and empathy), along with activating the analytical, memory reorganizing "higher self" of the prefrontal cortex, can we not imagine that such an experience may present a 'magic bullet' for the insecurely attached? Could those of us who may not qualify for a diagnosis of PTSD but who nonetheless are deeply affected by our attachment traumas possibly have found the answer we're looking for? A way out? A way to earn secure attachment in as few as three months, and by taking a pill in conjunction with therapy?
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raco
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Post by raco on Sept 22, 2017 10:01:08 GMT
A world changing event would be to stop creating problems in the first place, instead of creating them and selling the remedy. 50% of the population has attachment issues. Was it the case 100 years ago? 1,000 years ago? 100,000 years ago? It doesn't seem obvious to me.
That said, it seems far-fetched to me to assume that if PTSD can be cured, then attachment issues can be reduced.
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Post by lurker on Sept 22, 2017 10:07:56 GMT
I am constantly amazed by the ability of some people to look a gift horse in the mouth like this. 83 percent of test subjects cured of a debilitating condition that is absolutely ruining their lives, and this guy's attitude is "it would be better if they hadn't been traumatized in the first place."
Yes, that would be better. But they have been traumatized. And yes, it's absolutely certain that in the past people also experienced trauma. Since the world is less violent presently than it has been at any point in history, in fact, it's likely that they experienced far greater trauma than most of us do today.
Anyway, why do you think it unlikely that curing people's trauma will not help their attachment issues? Attachment insecurity is a direct result of trauma. If people aren't being triggered by their post traumatic symptoms they should have no reason to flee from intimacy.
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raco
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Post by raco on Sept 22, 2017 10:48:33 GMT
Yes, I think it's a shame that we always focus on consequences rather than causes. We do that for everything. For example, some studies suggest that cancer is a man-made disease. But we don't try to stop inducing cancers, we just try to cure them. Which fails 50% of the time. And the prevalence of cancer keeps raising. Are we all going to end up with various severe diseases, but be glad that there are some medicines that work X% of the time? When the damage is done, it's great to have a cure. But then we should try to create less damage. Traumas are not only caused by violence. A distant parent is enough to cause attachment issues, you don't need to have been involved in a war. It could be that the prevalence of attachment issues is greater today than it has been in the past. At the very least, we should try to find out if we are not creating problems that could be avoided. No society is trying to do that. We just take damaged people one by one and try to fix them. And many people don't even try to get a cure, because they have no idea that they have an issue (like it's often the case with avoidantly attached people, or cluster B personality disorders). |
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Post by lurker on Sept 22, 2017 17:32:10 GMT
MDMA therapy is focusing on the causes AND the consequences, for they are one and the same. Trauma causes disconnection. Disconnection causes trauma.
MDMA therapy creates connection, heals trauma, and ends the cycle. The chicken and the egg are being dealt with simultaneously.
I'm aware that violence is not the only cause of trauma, but it is a significant cause. As I said above, trauma begets further trauma as people are interconnected beings who affect each other's lives. Our brains are literally evolved for connection, and insecure connections as a result of trauma literally damage other people's brains. In other words, the less trauma in the world the better it is for everyone, so the decline in violence is very significant.
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Post by gaynxious on Sept 22, 2017 19:29:27 GMT
I am pretty sure mdma has been studied for attachment avoidance and had promising results but I don't think the results have been conclusive enough where a therapist can actually prescribe mdma in a non-research setting but I could very well be wrong. My guess is you will have to search very hard for a therapist willing to execute such treatment and doesn't suspect you of using it as an excuse to do mdma.
In my personal experience my DA ex was unprecedentedly loving and his allexthymia about his feelings toward me drastically improved when he did mdma. But this is anecdotal and it never seemed to cause any lasting changes, although he only started using it a few months before we broke up.
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Post by gaynxious on Sept 22, 2017 19:32:23 GMT
A world changing event would be to stop creating problems in the first place, instead of creating them and selling the remedy. 50% of the population has attachment issues. Was it the case 100 years ago? 1,000 years ago? 100,000 years ago? It doesn't seem obvious to me. That said, it seems far-fetched to me to assume that if PTSD can be cured, then attachment issues can be reduced. Those percentages have been pretty stable for several decades and given the proven biological component there is reason to believe that attchement styles were developed due to evolutionary stresses that go back tens of thousands of years at least. Just think how universal the troupe of the anxious avoidant couple goes back and is even romanticized. I'd say some stories from the ancient Greeks even depict what I would call the anxious avoidant trap. |
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Post by lurker on Sept 22, 2017 20:41:42 GMT
One of the very interesting things about this work is that it's not the drug in and of itself, but the therapy that is so helpful. So if you take MDMA and go to a club, for instance, you're not going to resolve any trauma. However, if you use the time to actually work on the issues in your past that have traumatized you, that's a different story. So yes, taking MDMA will make an avoidant temporarily more loving, and may reveal things about the true person "buried" under all that trauma and all those defenses, but it's unlikely to create lasting changes unless that's the goal. In the case of treating PTSD there are monthly sessions for three months with weekly psychotherapy in between. During the MDMA sessions patients lie down and wear an eye mask. They work hard. They talk about the trauma and investigate it thoroughly while in the care of a trained professional. The impressive results are a consequence of this rigorous process, and not merely the properties of the drug itself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 2:55:24 GMT
One of the very interesting things about this work is that it's not the drug in and of itself, but the therapy that is so helpful. So if you take MDMA and go to a club, for instance, you're not going to resolve any trauma. However, if you use the time to actually work on the issues in your past that have traumatized you, that's a different story. So yes, taking MDMA will make an avoidant temporarily more loving, and may reveal things about the true person "buried" under all that trauma and all those defenses, but it's unlikely to create lasting changes unless that's the goal. In the case of treating PTSD there are monthly sessions for three months with weekly psychotherapy in between. During the MDMA sessions patients lie down and wear an eye mask. They work hard. They talk about the trauma and investigate it thoroughly while in the care of a trained professional. The impressive results are a consequence of this rigorous process, and not merely the properties of the drug itself. I tried this with my ex-FA and the (temporary) changes were overwhelmingly positive and lasted for about eight days. We went out into the country and wilderness, and she sat and talked for nearly four hours. She couldn't believe how she was able to just recall and discuss all the trauma in her life without any negative feelings. It served only to make me fall even harder for her, and the subsequent reversion after being triggered to her fearful state absolutely crushed me. Having had over a week of her true, loving, unencumbered and emotionally available self was at once the most wonderful thing and the cruelest tease of what could have been. It did show what might be possible in the hands of a professional though, so I can't regret a moment of it. www.maps.org/ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 5:36:51 GMT
It sounds interesting and hopefully they will make some headway. I am quite sure this is not legal in the US yet. I have heard some good things about EMDR for PTSD. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, but the EMDR is most useful for single episodes only. I have thought about doing it, but good results are not likely so I hesitate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 2:28:52 GMT
It sounds interesting and hopefully they will make some headway. I am quite sure this is not legal in the US yet. I have heard some good things about EMDR for PTSD. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, but the EMDR is most useful for single episodes only. I have thought about doing it, but good results are not likely so I hesitate. i tried EMDR for severe PTSD but i was only sleeping about 2 hours at night due to the PTSD, and apparently the sleep deprivation and deep work “crashed” me and i bottomed out pretty bad. the therapist warned me it could happen but it was devastating. i have heard it can be helpful but maybe not in a severe case without super duper tight controls. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 2:30:17 GMT
i want to add that subsequent work and short term medicine were very helpful along with things i did myself, and i would consider myself cured of that.
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