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Post by kittygirl on Aug 14, 2020 19:23:31 GMT
Hello all! I am going to create this thread so I can add to it as I continue with my journey!
So in general I would say I am slowly but surely doing better. As I have mentioned before, somatic therapy has been incredible for me. It has helped me to a) be able to come back down when triggered more easily and b) experience triggers less frequently in general. Both of these are amazing!
One thing that I have been really struggling with (and it's probably something a lot of us think about and maybe don't like to admit) is how to deal with the scarcity mindset (by that i mean "I will never find someone else like XXX") as I age. When I was younger I truly never put too much emphasis on one person. I was absolutely sure I could find many other people I would have a great connection with. But NOW as I am getting older, I am finding it harder to tell myself this stuff especially when I am so aware of attachment statistics (haha I was thinking the other day this ironically would have been one of the only times I wish I was more ignorant in a way to attachment stuff). So I get worried about encountering a ton of avoidants in the dating pool if things with my current guy were to end which really freaks me out. Also, I find the person I am with to be so attractive (both physically and personality-wise) and when I go on to dating apps (I did it once only as a matter of fact and cried about it because I just didn't find anyone to be particularly funny or attractive or anything which of course he is...and this crushed me) I have gotten so disillusioned about my options. And then I come on these threads and it seems like an absolute NIGHTMARE. So my question to anyone at all who is reading this (and I guess I really mean people who are single or dating) is how do you get over that mindset of "oh my god this is the absolute best I'm going to get so I better not ever let it go"? I try to tell myself it's ok to just be single, but as I am getting older a whole new wave of dread of "I will die alone with no one" starts to wash over me. What do you guys do?
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Post by alexandra on Aug 14, 2020 19:55:24 GMT
kittygirl, it goes back to not abandoning yourself and having a full enough life outside of a partner. Yes, I'd like to be in a relationship, but my primary "need" for one right now is to facilitate starting a family. If I didn't have biological reasons that was pressing and having kids wasn't a primary goal, I wouldn't be searching as actively. I'd be okay with being single (because I already am) and would take my time because I'll meet a good match when I meet them and there's no other real "rush." As we get older, there are still occasional decent people. Is it easy to find them? Not online Yes, it's frustrating that it can be a numbers game, and no, you won't be able to control the timing of when you'll find a decent partner. You might get lucky and it's a couple weeks after you decide you're ready, it might be a year or two. But as you are better versed in attachment issues and continue getting more secure yourself, you filter out the noise really fast and recognize when you've found a potentially good one. So my attitude is actually not fear of scarcity. I KNOW they're still out there, and you just need to find one more who is compatible, and I know eventually I will because why not. For me, the stress is timing to have a family, but aside from that, I no longer feel rushed or scared (and believe me, I did for all those years I was AP... soooo much scarcity fear since every relationship was a disaster, how would I ever get lucky enough to find even one good one??? But that was my AP choosing unavailable people). Appreciate what you have but don't cling to it. You'll be okay with or without him, hopefully it'll work out to be with him, but you'll be okay either way. That's the mindset you can try to affirm and reaffirm. Also, even though it's harder as we're older, I do occasionally find secure guys online these days. They exist. I've been getting to know one for a couple months, and so far he has been great, so we'll see.
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Post by kittygirl on Aug 14, 2020 20:00:44 GMT
wow...can 't explain it but this was EXACTLY what i needed to hear! (read??). This is SUCH a good way to think about it and (truly) really resonated with me. Thank you so so much. Legit feel better already (also had a stressful therapy session which I don't think helped my anxiety)
Loved this: Appreciate what you have but don't cling to it. You'll be okay with or without him, hopefully it'll work out to be with him, but you'll be okay either way. That's the mindset you can try to affirm and reaffirm
TY Alexandra
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Post by alexandra on Aug 14, 2020 21:52:17 GMT
kittygirl, you're welcome, happy if it helps. I used to feel the same way, and that was how I finally untwisted it... every other approach just triggered my fear and anxiety!
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Post by lonewolf on Aug 16, 2020 21:19:02 GMT
For me, I don't really get caught up in the statistics. It seems unlikely because I am a very rational/logical person but really statistics are large amalgamations of data and aren't applicable to individuals. They also don't tell that whole story to the point that they are really only useful in a hypothetical and sociological settings.
Also, I would discard any conclusions made by internet bloggers using statistics to manipulate you. The "scarcity mindset" is absolutely a term from these blogs.
Here are some examples:
I'm over 30. It's so easy to bemoan myself thinking I won't get married, and I do sometimes worry I won't meet someone. I read a statistic, 25% of people in my age group will never get married. The highest percentage of unmarrieds ever. Depressing.
Re-examining my values and what's ACTUALLY important to me; I don't really care about being married. I want a long-term partnership, but I'm FA moving to secure and exaggerated displays of commitment and affection trigger me. When I visualize/meditate on my partnership, I see myself wading in to commitment at a steady pace. There's no big white wedding. How many others in the 25% have similar values?
Fertility decline statistics. Notice they're never put alongside the general fertility increase or the kinds of leaps and bounds made in fertility science? This is to manipulate and scare you. If you're over 30 and it's 1700, sure, you're old to start a family, but this is 2020. People are living longer and we have better health in general. Fertility and feeling "too old" are convenient distractions from the real inner work that you need to do to get to that point of self-acceptance.
Now I will tackle the dating pool and scarcity mindset. You say when you were younger you knew you would meet someone new but this has changed now that you're getting older. Well, let me explain that nothing has really changed. Imagine you are 21 and step into a bar with 100 men. 25 of them are avoidant, 25 are anxious, and 50 are secure.
You easily recognize the 25 avoidant men because they are "players". You get the vibe they are creeps only interested in sex. You move on. The 25 anxious men are too pushy and demanding. You are turned off by all of them and not interested. Now you choose a partner from the 50 secure available men.
It is 10 years later and you are 31 and single for whatever reason. You walk into the same bar. The same 25 anxious men and the same 25 avoidant men are still there. Are you suddenly going to be attracted to them and their behaviors? No. As long as you hold yourself accountable and maintain your standards, there is no reason anything has changed.
Ah, but there aren't as many secure men! That's true. There are only 25 secure men to choose from instead of 50. That's a little disappointing, I understand. But the pool of secure men is always rotating. This man was divorced, that man's wife died, he was in a LTR but it just didn't work out, he was focused on his career and is getting a late start on dating, etc.
Also the pool isn't 100 it is literally millions of people.
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Post by kittygirl on Aug 16, 2020 23:05:40 GMT
For me, I don't really get caught up in the statistics. It seems unlikely because I am a very rational/logical person but really statistics are large amalgamations of data and aren't applicable to individuals. They also don't tell that whole story to the point that they are really only useful in a hypothetical and sociological settings. Also, I would discard any conclusions made by internet bloggers using statistics to manipulate you. The "scarcity mindset" is absolutely a term from these blogs. Here are some examples: I'm over 30. It's so easy to bemoan myself thinking I won't get married, and I do sometimes worry I won't meet someone. I read a statistic, 25% of people in my age group will never get married. The highest percentage of unmarrieds ever. Depressing. Re-examining my values and what's ACTUALLY important to me; I don't really care about being married. I want a long-term partnership, but I'm FA moving to secure and exaggerated displays of commitment and affection trigger me. When I visualize/meditate on my partnership, I see myself wading in to commitment at a steady pace. There's no big white wedding. How many others in the 25% have similar values? Fertility decline statistics. Notice they're never put alongside the general fertility increase or the kinds of leaps and bounds made in fertility science? This is to manipulate and scare you. If you're over 30 and it's 1700, sure, you're old to start a family, but this is 2020. People are living longer and we have better health in general. Fertility and feeling "too old" are convenient distractions from the real inner work that you need to do to get to that point of self-acceptance. Now I will tackle the dating pool and scarcity mindset. You say when you were younger you knew you would meet someone new but this has changed now that you're getting older. Well, let me explain that nothing has really changed. Imagine you are 21 and step into a bar with 100 men. 25 of them are avoidant, 25 are anxious, and 50 are secure. You easily recognize the 25 avoidant men because they are "players". You get the vibe they are creeps only interested in sex. You move on. The 25 anxious men are too pushy and demanding. You are turned off by all of them and not interested. Now you choose a partner from the 50 secure available men. It is 10 years later and you are 31 and single for whatever reason. You walk into the same bar. The same 25 anxious men and the same 25 avoidant men are still there. Are you suddenly going to be attracted to them and their behaviors? No. As long as you hold yourself accountable and maintain your standards, there is no reason anything has changed. Ah, but there aren't as many secure men! That's true. There are only 25 secure men to choose from instead of 50. That's a little disappointing, I understand. But the pool of secure men is always rotating. This man was divorced, that man's wife died, he was in a LTR but it just didn't work out, he was focused on his career and is getting a late start on dating, etc. Also the pool isn't 100 it is literally millions of people. Wow...thank you so much for these words! I am like you-no interest in getting married (never have and I make this clear with anyone I am with-a wedding just isn't in our future and maybe not even moving in together). So I am already sort of approaching the dating pool with some odd conditions. And the thing is I am pretty comfortable with my avoidant mindset (hell, aren't we all?) but when that pesky anxious voice starts to talk MAN OH MAN I can convince myself of every worst case scenario out there (you will be alone in a nursing home with literally no one is one of the big ones)....so then I want to cling (I DONT really cling of course because I am FA so I just torment myself internally about it forever-and find reasons that I don't need them etc etc-fantasize about us breaking up) and this causes me to be all over the effing place (I'm sure you can relate as an FA). I think that you are right that trusting self (hard for me!) that i would be able to suss out the insecurely attached individuals would get easier particularly as I get more secure. This in turn will help me not to feel those abandonment wounds so fiercely when my partner pulls away (he is HEAVILY FA) We had plans for a dinner date which he flaked on (or this is the story I tell myself)...then texted me an hour later apologizing that he had fallen asleep (but I know this isn't entirely true) which makes me feel like I can't trust and makes me want to run away. This stuff is so damn hard sometimes. I feel like I take 5 steps forward and then 6 steps back sometimes. I want to be able to communicate these fears but then it seems so overwhelming to do so, so my brains goes into defense mode ("fuck him and fuck this relationship. I'm stupid for trusting people. GET OUT")
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Post by Dualcitizen on Aug 17, 2020 2:16:52 GMT
For me, I don't really get caught up in the statistics. It seems unlikely because I am a very rational/logical person but really statistics are large amalgamations of data and aren't applicable to individuals. They also don't tell that whole story to the point that they are really only useful in a hypothetical and sociological settings. Also, I would discard any conclusions made by internet bloggers using statistics to manipulate you. The "scarcity mindset" is absolutely a term from these blogs. Here are some examples: I'm over 30. It's so easy to bemoan myself thinking I won't get married, and I do sometimes worry I won't meet someone. I read a statistic, 25% of people in my age group will never get married. The highest percentage of unmarrieds ever. Depressing. Re-examining my values and what's ACTUALLY important to me; I don't really care about being married. I want a long-term partnership, but I'm FA moving to secure and exaggerated displays of commitment and affection trigger me. When I visualize/meditate on my partnership, I see myself wading in to commitment at a steady pace. There's no big white wedding. How many others in the 25% have similar values? Fertility decline statistics. Notice they're never put alongside the general fertility increase or the kinds of leaps and bounds made in fertility science? This is to manipulate and scare you. If you're over 30 and it's 1700, sure, you're old to start a family, but this is 2020. People are living longer and we have better health in general. Fertility and feeling "too old" are convenient distractions from the real inner work that you need to do to get to that point of self-acceptance. Now I will tackle the dating pool and scarcity mindset. You say when you were younger you knew you would meet someone new but this has changed now that you're getting older. Well, let me explain that nothing has really changed. Imagine you are 21 and step into a bar with 100 men. 25 of them are avoidant, 25 are anxious, and 50 are secure. You easily recognize the 25 avoidant men because they are "players". You get the vibe they are creeps only interested in sex. You move on. The 25 anxious men are too pushy and demanding. You are turned off by all of them and not interested. Now you choose a partner from the 50 secure available men. It is 10 years later and you are 31 and single for whatever reason. You walk into the same bar. The same 25 anxious men and the same 25 avoidant men are still there. Are you suddenly going to be attracted to them and their behaviors? No. As long as you hold yourself accountable and maintain your standards, there is no reason anything has changed. Ah, but there aren't as many secure men! That's true. There are only 25 secure men to choose from instead of 50. That's a little disappointing, I understand. But the pool of secure men is always rotating. This man was divorced, that man's wife died, he was in a LTR but it just didn't work out, he was focused on his career and is getting a late start on dating, etc. Also the pool isn't 100 it is literally millions of people. Wow...thank you so much for these words! I am like you-no interest in getting married (never have and I make this clear with anyone I am with-a wedding just isn't in our future and maybe not even moving in together). So I am already sort of approaching the dating pool with some odd conditions. And the thing is I am pretty comfortable with my avoidant mindset (hell, aren't we all?) but when that pesky anxious voice starts to talk MAN OH MAN I can convince myself of every worst case scenario out there (you will be alone in a nursing home with literally no one is one of the big ones)....so then I want to cling (I DONT really cling of course because I am FA so I just torment myself internally about it forever-and find reasons that I don't need them etc etc-fantasize about us breaking up) and this causes me to be all over the effing place (I'm sure you can relate as an FA). I think that you are right that trusting self (hard for me!) that i would be able to suss out the insecurely attached individuals would get easier particularly as I get more secure. This in turn will help me not to feel those abandonment wounds so fiercely when my partner pulls away (he is HEAVILY FA) We had plans for a dinner date which he flaked on (or this is the story I tell myself)...then texted me an hour later apologizing that he had fallen asleep (but I know this isn't entirely true) which makes me feel like I can't trust and makes me want to run away. This stuff is so damn hard sometimes. I feel like I take 5 steps forward and then 6 steps back sometimes. I want to be able to communicate these fears but then it seems so overwhelming to do so, so my brains goes into defense mode ("fuck him and fuck this relationship. I'm stupid for trusting people. GET OUT") All well and good you recognizing your patterns Kitty, kudos to you, really courageous and a show of "strength" let's just say, to confront your own issues, identify them and try and be at peace with them. But I would put this to you to contemplate, you don't have to be putting up with that type of behaviour from a potential boyfriend, particularly during your healing process imao. As Thais says over there, if you wish to explore boundaries and self love here, express yourself directly (and mean it at your core), that you are putting in effort, trying, and need them to show up as well. Even set a date for him to show change, giving him a chance? If not, and here is where the secure attachment comes into play, you value yourself, not him on a pedestal (or any other fears driving the narrative), and there IS better out there. If you have a dinner date set, "he was asleep" and never showed, that can be construed as the height of rudeness i'm afraid. He knew it was on, the time, the place, and did what he did. He's an adult now, you're an adult, you're taking responsibility for your actions, and he's not? Now you know he displays a F-A attachment, and is potentially trying to distance, but, how is that helping you personally? Is that complimentary to you in a positive healthy way? If you were with a truly secure person, and you had these insecurities/fears about abandonment, the secure at least would be reliable (even if "boring" potentially to you, due to no "familiar" drama basically), and you could genuinely remove a variable in the equation in relation to your last paragraph. If you "felt like running away", you could be mindful and know, that the secure isn't truly the one that's driving that narrative in the subconscious. You're making effort, he's clearly not. You're reaffirming fears here, after doing the right thing by yourself, then not really being fair on yourself. Don't lose sight of the good work you have done so far in understanding yourself.
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Post by kittygirl on Aug 18, 2020 23:25:33 GMT
Alright- just wanted to post an update (for anyone who is lurking here but really as a response to @dualcitizen)...so you are right of course (Dual)...this was extremely rude and it made me want to run (classic). My inclination is never to confront-it's to GTFO without saying a peep.Soooo...last night I did some subconscious work via Thais Gibsons fearful avoidant course in which we work on identifying our core wounds, and pick WHICH of those was activated/triggered by someone's actions. And then (and this is the hard part) voice those concerns in as real time as you can. Today I felt like a tiny moment where I felt I could reach out (those will come and go and I knew if I didn't grab on it would leave and we'd be on to another day with no communication). Long story short, I was very vulnerable and explained how it makes me feel. I explained what i need in the future and I apologized for my own part if I had hurt him with my behavior. He was up front and honest about why he missed and made me feel totally validated and seen. Reassured me etc. It was a beautiful exchange that we had. WOW. Now I want to be clear, his reaction is of course important to me (among other things it helps me to build positive associations with speaking my needs and being vulnerable) but this was really about ME. *I* want to be able to do these things, voice my needs, IDENTIFY my triggers etc without having to worry about what happens on the other end (that's the point right?). So even though there was a good outcome, I was absolutely ready to do it regardless. The closer I get to someone the harder this becomes because the more is at stake. One step at a time. One step. For any FAs reading this, Thais Gibson has a 25% off sale for her course bundles right now....it has basically changed my life. I would encourage anyone who can to do it. SHe makes it so easy to work through these videos and she has so many topics not just attachment stuff (building self esteem, getting over perfection, ending procrastination etc). Ha I sound like I work for her. I swear I don't!
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