msg
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by msg on Oct 15, 2020 21:15:37 GMT
I'm AP he's DA. We're long distance. Sorry for the long post.
We are in a constant push and pull cycle. He broke things off (again) and said we should see other people. He said he's really confused and hurt. Even though I was freaking out inside I told him I respect his decision, I was positive and agreed and said this would be good for us. He told me he still loves me and wants to be with me, doesn't want this to be completely over but we should take a break. It was getting too messy.
I'm taking this time to work on myself and my own issues. I want to be better for myself, I want to work on my own inner turmoil.
Anyway, since our talk he has contacted me every day, asking how I'm doing, what I'm up to and sending me memes. He also texts telling me loves me and misses me . Our communication has been lighthearted, flirty and really nice. We've started a new cycle once again. Expect this time, I don't want to fall into old habits (I know this is easier said than done). I'm trying to learn how to cope with my own insecurities and anxieties and not be so dependent on others for my own happiness.
I'm sure the reasons things are going so well at the moment is because a) the way I responded positively to the talk about taking a break and b) I'm internally and independently working on my issues and not projecting my anxieties, insecurities and all the other lovely things that come with being AP and c) for him it's perfect because the demands of the relationship are gone and he's free to do whatever he wants yet still has me there as emotional support. Maybe I'm an idiot but I'm willing to accept that for now. Maybe I'll go no contact one day when I'm ready. Maybe one day soon he'll tell me he's met someone else and I'll have to deal with that.
But for now, I want to see him. I want to actually put all my positive thinking into action. I want to see if we can reconnect and start fresh in healthier way with my new outlook. This might be wishful thinking and I know this will not all have to come from me, he will have to work on himself as well (he has been open to this in the past but I don't want to push him on that right now). We're both so emotionally exhausted from the toxicity and we want better for us. The way I feel right now is the only way we will know if we can do that is if we spend some time together again.
Like I said, we are long distance and I want to ask him to come visit me. I don't want him to feel pressured or that I need him. How do I go about this without scaring him off and pulling away? How do I ask him? I'm scared of him rejecting my invitation but if that's the case, I will just have to accept and cope with that myself. In the meantime, we're just texting back and forth happily, sometimes talking on the phone, laughing and generally having a pleasant friendship/relationship (?) and we're enjoying it not being so intense. Though I'm heartbroken, I'm dealing with my emotions myself and not bringing up any heavy conversations or reaching out for reassurance because that is huge issue with our AP/DA relationship. When we had our "lets take a break" talk he did say he would love to see me after some time and I suggested thanksgiving but he seemed unsure, first said he thought it was too soon but then said maybe and he'll ask his boss if quarantining and working from home after the trip is possible. When is an acceptable time to suggest the idea of seeing each other again?
I know I can't expect exact answers to all these questions but some insight, advice, etc would be so appreciated. I'm not ready to give up, maybe he is but it doesn't seem like it by the way he is texting me. I'm not trying to learn to deal with my AP ways in healthier way for him or to "win" him back, I'm doing it for myself because I don't want to carry on like this. Can any DAs tell me what you would be thinking/feeling in this situation?
|
|
|
|
Post by maryisback on Oct 16, 2020 0:47:41 GMT
It would be too hard to say what he is thinking or feeling from this one paragraph. I am sure there is a lot of history here that comes into play. As far as asking him to visit you, what about asking him what he thinks is a good time frame. Explain that you would be open to it if he is. I don't think there is any true way to "start fresh". History will still haunt the relationship no matter how much you try. I don't want to sound like a downer, but multiple "break ups" usually ends up in a permanent one at some point.
|
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Oct 17, 2020 0:26:46 GMT
Hi msg,
You may like to check out some of Thais Gibson's youtubes videos; she's a specialist attachment psychologist and has released a ton of very compassionate and thoughtful videos about DA's and how the other different attachment styles can best understand each other and relate to one another.
|
|
msg
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by msg on Oct 17, 2020 7:56:29 GMT
It would be too hard to say what he is thinking or feeling from this one paragraph. I am sure there is a lot of history here that comes into play. As far as asking him to visit you, what about asking him what he thinks is a good time frame. Explain that you would be open to it if he is. I don't think there is any true way to "start fresh". History will still haunt the relationship no matter how much you try. I don't want to sound like a downer, but multiple "break ups" usually ends up in a permanent one at some point. Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I agree our history will have a big part to play in it all. We're both hurting from past fights. I've been researching our attachments styles so much in the couple of days and though I know it's not all my fault, I take big responsibility for my part to play in it all and I wish I had understood more what was going on with him and not been so harsh. I want to create a safe place in this relationship for him, for us. I'm trying to start that by addressing my issues first, he can address his further down the line if he wants as it's clear he's not quite there yet. I just thought meeting would be a nice start to that but still trying to figure out if it's a good idea and if/how I should ask. |
|
msg
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by msg on Oct 17, 2020 7:57:04 GMT
Hi msg, You may like to check out some of Thais Gibson's youtubes videos; she's a specialist attachment psychologist and has released a ton of very compassionate and thoughtful videos about DA's and how the other different attachment styles can best understand each other and relate to one another. Thanks for your reply. I've been watching a lot of her videos recently! thanks |
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Oct 17, 2020 20:40:32 GMT
Hi msg, You may like to check out some of Thais Gibson's youtubes videos; she's a specialist attachment psychologist and has released a ton of very compassionate and thoughtful videos about DA's and how the other different attachment styles can best understand each other and relate to one another. Thanks for your reply. I've been watching a lot of her videos recently! thanks Nice that you found them yourself , what have you thought so far? I found them during my exes second major deactivation, which lasted many months. She does address some of your questions about "timing" and "approaches" for reconnecting. For example, she shares that when your avoidant partner deactivates and initiates a breakup, you will usually need to wait it out for at least two months. If you try to escalate intimacy, especially within 2 months of deactivating, it can turn in a complete shutdown that last will even longer. She also explains that reconnecting after a breakup should go slow.....start with a pattern of light reconnection every 4 days or so, and lead up to more intimacy over the course of a month. I found this to be good advice, and would possibly be fairly rock solid if it weren't for complications such as exes using their "space" to start new relationships. You need to take that side of things into account and protect your heart somehow. Your exes current deactivation is a little harder to interpret, as he's wanting space but you still communicate most days? Its sounds like my exes first deactivation, where he just needed to decompress for a month, but still wanted the relationship at that point. He came back slowly from it, but within 6 months he deactivated again, much more severely. I think if you do ask him to meet in person when the timing feels right, it will feel like a big confrontation of closeness for him?. You could try talking about what you both hope will happen exactly. Maybe take physical intimacy off the table for the first meeting even, if you can, and talk about where the relationship is headed? Anyway just thoughts. Best wishes! |
|
|
|
Post by maryisback on Oct 17, 2020 23:40:32 GMT
I am DA and I can say the deactivation time frame can vary a lot. For me, the reason for the deactivation, matters quite a bit in determining the amount of time. The deactivation doesn't occur in a vacuum. You may not know what caused it but there is a cause. The deeper the transgression, the longer it will last.
|
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Oct 18, 2020 5:41:35 GMT
I am DA and I can say the deactivation time frame can vary a lot. For me, the reason for the deactivation, matters quite a bit in determining the amount of time. The deactivation doesn't occur in a vacuum. You may not know what caused it but there is a cause. The deeper the transgression, the longer it will last. This is a really good point; there can be legitimate betrayals of trust that cause deactivation, and we have some amazing self aware DA's on this forum who likely have very thoughtful and legitimate reasons for deactivating. Thai Gibson's videos seem to loosely fit avoidants who deactivate due to being triggered by closeness (rather than loss of trust or fear of abandonment), and then they lose their object constancy for a time (ie. They see their partner in an overly negative light due to the "triggered state", rather than anything the partner actually did). And how an avoidant person interprets all that can vary very much between individuals. They might "assign" a reason (the grass is greener, the partner is not perfect enough are the usual ones) but the negativity can be temporary. |
|
|
|
Post by maryisback on Oct 18, 2020 20:16:36 GMT
I think that closeness (from the outside) APPEARS to be the trigger. The trigger is timing and a boundary. Crossing of a boundary (whether it be due to timing or a boundary I will never cross) is the transgression. I can see how people think it's closeness, because DAs have boundaries other people can't see or understand. You don't know you have stepped on a mine, especially APs, since they don't have well defined boundaries and their "MO" is to push boundaries or step all over them.
Then that boundary crossing gets compounded further by A: Being told by an AP that they have only *crossed that boundary* because they love you B: Being told over and over again that I should *cross that boundary* and C: the AP *crossing that boundary* over and over regardless of what I say or ask.
It's sort of like this: You go on a first date with a guy and he puts his hand on your thigh. It makes you uncomfortable, so you ask him to stop doing it. He stops for a bit but then keeps doing it over and over. He says he does it because he likes you, so it should be fine. After a few times, you can no longer trust that he will keeps his hands to himself. So what do you do? You walk away.
|
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Oct 19, 2020 5:57:01 GMT
I don't know that AP's have an "MO" to disrespect boundaries at all. I have a lot of AP and anxiously leaning FA friends and they respect my boundaries just fine if I explain them with warmth. Disrespectful and abusive people violate clearly stated boundaries, and they come in all attachment styles in my own experiences.
And we're not really discussing first dates on this forum usually. The partners of avoidants who come here are usually in long term relationships, and they are unaware of "the boundaries" because they get silence and deactivation rather than simple clear expression of boundaries. I find most of the forum members to be kind, good people who feel like they are in the dark because they don't get the communication they need, and their healthy attempts to resolve conflict are thwarted. They feel ostracized, abandoned, and afraid because of their partner's distances and breakups, confused by the cycling back, and would LOVE to hear them say exactly what to do to make things right. But they don't get that, because conflict resolution and clear communication promote closeness, not to mention equality. And maintaining distance , on their own terms, without compromise, is the avoidant's "MO".
|
|
msg
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by msg on Oct 19, 2020 13:05:26 GMT
He is deactivating because we fought too much. I did overstep boundaries. It was a classic AP/DA cycle; Things were going well > I would start feeling insecure and need closeness/reassurance > he would pull away > I would freak out start a fight > he would pull away more > once things are calmer he would come back and things were ok again.
It's a lot more complicated than that but I'm simplifying for now.
He says he loves me and wants to work on things but he hates the fights so much, it's not want he wants. It's not what I want. I'm working on my own insecurities and need for external reassurance. Not for him but for myself. He needs to work on himself as well but for now, he has created distance between us by "breaking up" and now he feels the "threat" (my neediness) has eased he can come back (i.e. texting and calling me everyday) and right now we are the "everything is fine stage" but it's superficial, the issues are still there below the surface.
I refuse to feed into my negative thinking and AP behaviour. But my main question is, if I ask him to come visit me (explained in my original post) am I starting the cycle again?? Am I seeking closeness again?
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Oct 19, 2020 13:50:51 GMT
He is deactivating because we fought too much. I did overstep boundaries. It was a classic AP/DA cycle; Things were going well > I would start feeling insecure and need closeness/reassurance > he would pull away > I would freak out start a fight > he would pull away more > once things are calmer he would come back and things were ok again. It's a lot more complicated than that but I'm simplifying for now. He says he loves me and wants to work on things but he hates the fights so much, it's not want he wants. It's not what I want. I'm working on my own insecurities and need for external reassurance. Not for him but for myself. He needs to work on himself as well but for now, he has created distance between us by "breaking up" and now he feels the "threat" (my neediness) has eased he can come back (i.e. texting and calling me everyday) and right now we are the "everything is fine stage" but it's superficial, the issues are still there below the surface. I refuse to feed into my negative thinking and AP behaviour. But my main question is, if I ask him to come visit me (explained in my original post) am I starting the cycle again?? Am I seeking closeness again? Honestly....that is a question that would best be answered by you. You are working on your end...is he? Has he started any therapy or done any introspection? Does he own that distancing the way he does only addresses a need in himself and does not really help the “relationship” or you? I see the dynamic of the AP taking on responsibility and trying to change, while the Avoidant partner changes nothing time and time again. This only leads to resentment on the part of the AP partner and back into the arguments and push pull cycle. Honestly.....I think it is too soon to try to reconcile...you are freshly working on yourself and I have no idea what he is up to...but this thread alone tells me you need more time apart so that you can continue to work on your boundaries and most important...your self love. Because self love (not narcissistic love of self) removes the need for validation from others. It says...I know myself and no matter how someone else reacts to me, I have got my back. You learn to be the calm in the storm for yourself....not for him. |
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Oct 19, 2020 14:18:37 GMT
Short answer, take some time, go no contact and then call him in about four months, and he will respond and take it from there.
Long answer, if you yourself do 3-4 months of therapy, you will feel improvement and you may not be attracted to that dynamic any more. Once you start healing, your whole life will change. You most likely won’t want to call him, ever.
|
|
msg
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by msg on Oct 19, 2020 14:35:08 GMT
Honestly....that is a question that would best be answered by you. You are working on your end...is he? Has he started any therapy or done any introspection? Does he own that distancing the way he does only addresses a need in himself and does not really help the “relationship” or you? I see the dynamic of the AP taking on responsibility and trying to change, while the Avoidant partner changes nothing time and time again. This only leads to resentment on the part of the AP partner and back into the arguments and push pull cycle. Honestly.....I think it is too soon to try to reconcile...you are freshly working on yourself and I have no idea what he is up to...but this thread alone tells me you need more time apart so that you can continue to work on your boundaries and most important...your self love. Because self love (not narcissistic love of self) removes the need for validation from others. It says...I know myself and no matter how someone else reacts to me, I have got my back. You learn to be the calm in the storm for yourself....not for him. I totally agree. And no, he is not aware. But I'm willing to be patient. We have been to couples therapy together in the past and I hope to do so again. He has said he wants to work on us. I think he does want to work on himself but just doesn't know how yet. Right now he is deactivating and I'm letting him do his thing while I work on my own issues. Once it is safe to do so I can address all this with him. But at the moment it would come across too much as "this is what is wrong with YOU and this is what you should do" and I don't want that. All I can do for now is work on myself and like you said, be the calm in the storm for myself. Thanks for your reply |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Oct 19, 2020 14:42:15 GMT
Honestly....that is a question that would best be answered by you. You are working on your end...is he? Has he started any therapy or done any introspection? Does he own that distancing the way he does only addresses a need in himself and does not really help the “relationship” or you? I see the dynamic of the AP taking on responsibility and trying to change, while the Avoidant partner changes nothing time and time again. This only leads to resentment on the part of the AP partner and back into the arguments and push pull cycle. Honestly.....I think it is too soon to try to reconcile...you are freshly working on yourself and I have no idea what he is up to...but this thread alone tells me you need more time apart so that you can continue to work on your boundaries and most important...your self love. Because self love (not narcissistic love of self) removes the need for validation from others. It says...I know myself and no matter how someone else reacts to me, I have got my back. You learn to be the calm in the storm for yourself....not for him. I totally agree. And no, he is not aware. But I'm willing to be patient. We have been to couples therapy together in the past and I hope to do so again. He has said he wants to work on us. I think he does want to work on himself but just doesn't know how yet. Right now he is deactivating and I'm letting him do his thing while I work on my own issues. Once it is safe to do so I can address all this with him. But at the moment it would come across too much as "this is what is wrong with YOU and this is what you should do" and I don't want that. All I can do for now is work on myself and like you said, be the calm in the storm for myself. Thanks for your reply I read your other post...I think a clean break.....no messages, no talking is what would serve you best. Right now, it is like you are trying to move away from a waterfall with 1 paddle and a strong current. Put another way....you might be able to react differently in the moment when he pulls some unaware insecure attachment stuff, but it is bound to impact you and your therapy. Your therapy will look more like...how do I deal with x from him, versus...how do I work on y within me. I know you are being patient with him...but what about yourself? Are you extending the same grace towards yourself? Believe me...if he truly wants to work this through, he won’t mind a no contact period for you both to grow. If he doesn’t...that is more information for you about the type of man he is. |
|
