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Post by kittygirl on Oct 21, 2020 19:35:20 GMT
Hello peeps! I feel like I haven't posted an update in forevvverrrr so I wanted to post about my relationship with my FA boyf, and my journey to earning secure in general. Maybe this will help people just starting out, people who are in my same position or people who have already earned secure.
First of all, things with my partner have changed a tremendous amount since I first started posting here and seeking advice over a year ago (wow! when I think back) I know there aren't many "success" stories we read on here, but things with my partner are going the best they ever have. I want to post a little about how it is that we have been able to make things work BUT KNOW that I am hardly saying this is a fairytale and we both have a ton of work left to do.
Reminder that he and I are both FA (he was diagnosed by a therapist and I ended up discovering it which I posted about on here through lots of deep diving-was hard for me at first). He and I had a tumultuous start but we ended up getting back together after a breakup earlier this year. Since then, I started Somatic therapy with an attachment specialist (somatic therapy has changed my life) and we have titrated from 1 session/week to 1/month (progress!). In addition, I joined the Personal Development School and took online courses taught by Thais Gibson (who's a real favorite around these parts of course) which, quite literally, changed my entire life. Things like, learning how to communicate, learning how to question stories, reprogramming core wounds, emotional mastery (HUGE one for me) and working on "shadow work" (tackling traits I suppress because I find them shameful-my "shadow" etc). For us, we have had to work on communication and by that I mean really communicating with each other when issues arise and IN REAL TIME. Not weeks after because we are ashamed. But in real time. We are now in a very good place because of this, but this is because he was willing to show up (as was I). When I say "show up" I don't mean perfect, but I mean working on things like questioning his stories, and a HUGE one for him is bringing up his needs and issues he has with the relationship to me. Recently he told me "I don't feel as connected with you when we don't see each other or talk on the phone a lot (we are long distance) and sometimes it's hard to connect to you because you are sort of closed off"....of all the vulnerable things he has ever told me including about his past or fears or any of that, this was among the most powerful for me. And meant a TREMENDOUS amount to me. So we are working (slowly) towards a more secure relationship-he brought up recently that he would like for me to (gulp) move to his city which is a huuuuuuuuge deal for me. I have never moved for anyone. In the past, I have wanted to be able to "lift" myself out of the relationship at a moments notice, minimize any entanglements etc. BUT because our communication is so much better than anything I have had in the past, I don't feel as panicked about this. I no longer fantasize about us breaking up before I go to bed as a way to relax (messed up I know, but was something I did regularly in the past with previous partners and with him). My desire for feeling like I am not trapped has diminished so much!
Now, we are not an FA/FA pairing where one of us goes full DA and the other goes AA...but rather we tend to really bounce off of each other...it used to be very pronounced-Id move in he'd pull away, I'd pull away he'd move in..and my desire to "get away" when things are bad has gotten much, MUCH less. I don't want to make it sound like I never have times when I deactivate, and he certainly does...BUT what has changed in a profound way, is the meaning I give to his behavior. WHen he does his "stuff" (starts to get cold with me) it just doesn't cause me to want to bolt anymore (which was the way I was before) because I have worked hard to reprogram my core wounds, so I no longer see his behavior through that lens. AND furthermore, I now have the tools to bring up to him "Hey listen this is hard for me and here is exactly what I need".
This is not easy and we are not perfect at all. Just knowing WHAT i need has been a real challenge though I have gotten much much better at identifying it and expressing it. I also want to be clear that a lot of the hot and cold stuff still exists with him (well maybe not a "lot" but it is still there) but I am not dating him waiting for that to change as I made up my mind long ago that I either decide it's a dealbreaker for me AS IS or not in which case I accept things. Coincidentally it's gotten better but that's just sugar on top. THere are other things he does as a partner that are great. And again, not feeling an urge to run away every time there in an issue has like, changed the entire landscape of my fulfillment and happiness in the relationship
For me, the courses I took online where the piece I needed for the relationship (and to deal with my own issues too) and the stuff I did with somatic work was what helped me a lot with my day to day triggering. So far, we are doing well and progressing forward albeit at maybe a slower pace than others would (I can't stand even the tiniest bit 'o' pressure and so this has helped me a lot). But it's taken a lot of work. And I have had to look at my own motivations, behavior and core wounds in a way that is hard as hell somtimes but so worth it. No matter WHAT happens with him I am so so much healthier now. This is still very much a "work in progress" and I am still working on earning secure but I am in such a better place now. Maybe this will help others who are struggling as well that it can happen. If you and your partner are willing to show up
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Post by serenity on Oct 21, 2020 20:02:11 GMT
I love Thais Gibson's videos too; what a gift she is to people who want to figure out how to relate to loved ones, or even friends, colleagues, and family whose style is different to their own.
Well done with all the self work you've done kittygirl! Takes a lot of courage to dig so deep within your own nature and behaviour, and try to turn around old coping mechanisms.
>3
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Post by kittygirl on Oct 21, 2020 20:44:02 GMT
Thank you so much for these words Serenity. I can say WITHOUT HESITATION if it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't be in the place I am now. Period. My biggest hurdle was denial (mounds and mounds of it) and once that started to melt away, the other pieces fit but I remember being offended in my early days on these boards when people would suggest I had a part to play in my own relationship dynamics (so mad!!) but also how to be compassionate to myself and others as well.
Thais is amazing. It's like she sees into my soul. One of the places I realized I had issues was my friendships and her videos on that have helped me and my friends are so awesome they have been a great place to practice vulnerability
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annes
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by annes on Oct 21, 2020 21:38:52 GMT
This is so refreshing to read and gives hope. I'm really impressed by the willingness of you and your partner to improve and to put consistent effort in this journey. Can I ask you more about somatic therapy and the personal development school? Why somatic therapy has been so important? And particularly, how has the personal dev. school helped with 'emotional mastery'? I'd be interested in joining anything that might help me get rid of my anxious tendencies. Thanks!!!
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Post by kittygirl on Oct 22, 2020 21:17:47 GMT
This is so refreshing to read and gives hope. I'm really impressed by the willingness of you and your partner to improve and to put consistent effort in this journey. Can I ask you more about somatic therapy and the personal development school? Why somatic therapy has been so important? And particularly, how has the personal dev. school helped with 'emotional mastery'? I'd be interested in joining anything that might help me get rid of my anxious tendencies. Thanks!!! Annes-prior to the personal development school, I truly, truly believed there was no hope in dating (especially with 2 insecurely attached people) but that was largely due to the complete lack of success stories. BUT if you think about it-it makes sense there are so few. A) attachment theory is genuinely just now becoming a big thing so up until now you had totally unaware insecurely attached people trying to date so of course that isn't going to work and B) I think someone like Thais Gibson (who has seen by her own account thousands of insecurely attached clients) has such a deep understanding of how these attachment stlyes show up that she gives extremely clear, concrete tools to move through a relationship that the success rate is going up for people who utilize the resources. As you might imagine, a lot of the work is on tackling our own core wounds-identifying what they are (she says there are 10 main ones...just knowing which ones you have can be hard) and this is the subject of the emotional mastery course. Basically, you identify what one of your core wounds is (lets say, I get really triggered when my partner doesn't reply to a text and I tell myself I am not important to him-so my core wound is "I don't matter") then you work on REPROGRAMMING those core wounds in the same way they were programmed into us to begin with-with repetition and strong emotion. So I have to think of 3 at least, examples of where I KNOW I matter, and I write those down, repeat them to myself. This is the basic goal of the emotional mastery course. BUT there are other courses like Beginning and Advanced Fearful Avoidance courses (and all the attachment styles) where she talks about exactly how someone with that attachment style shows up through the different stages of a relationship. Helps SO MUCH because each attachment style has their own set of very real but (often times) very different expectations and needs throughout the relationship. The website is: university.personaldevelopmentschool.com and right now there is a 25% off sale. YOu can get a 3 month bundle even which gives you plenty of time to do the courses I would say. Anyway I cant praise it enough. Side note: Thais says that in her practice she has seen very few of the couples who are actually working through this stuff not work out, and says that in many ways they can be stronger and more successful than SA/SA pairings because they are so aware of pitfalls and have become so good at communicating. Might be what is happening with our dear friend alexandra who had suspected her BF was earned secure and talked about how the connection felt even stronger because of that. Wouldn't surprise me! With the somatic therapy, this uses the idea that we subconsciously store trauma through neural connections that express themselves through body sensations (I am anxious and I feel that in my throat or something) and again, uses the idea of reprogramming through focusing on neutral body parts in order to strengthen new neural networks. Truly, THIS has been the single biggest thing to bring me down from my anxious episodes specifically. When I would have anxious episodes in the past, I would feel like I was going to die. This work has helped me in that regrad like nothing else. I see a therapist in my hometown for that. YOu could search "Somatic therapy" or "somatic experiencing" to get recommendations I had an "episode" last night with my BF as a matter of fact. I was triggered enough that I started to go into full FA brain mode ("I need to get out!" "I have to leave") BUT I was able to calm myself down in a matter of minutes with the tools that I have. Like seriously went from 100 down to about 20. This happened right before bed and I didn't even have to fantasize about breaking up because I was able to calm down so much which is huge for me. Woke up feeling so good. I had to just identify WHAT feeling I was feeling, WHICH of my core wounds was being activated, and then focus on pieces of evidene to the contrary. And in addition I used my somatic tools. Everything today is perfectly fine. So I am far from totally secure yet, but I am really getting there now. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 22, 2020 22:47:35 GMT
I'd believe that opinion that two earned/earning-secure partners can form really strong connections because of how much work on becoming a good communicator earning secure involves. I'd also venture to guess that two people who have been / are earnestly going through the process of earning secure (however that process looked/looks for them) may have strong connections because the kind of motivation, introspection, and interest in self-improvement and growth in this particular way means they have some deep values and interests in common. Not everyone is interested in attachment theory or understanding humans more generally, and I definitely feel like I have more common ground and interest in talking to people who do, because I find it very engaging. In fact, it's a flat-out turn-off for me to talk to someone who doesn't have any interest in human behavior! I see it everywhere, in business and in people's jobs, in politics, in the arts, in interpersonal relationships... and if someone has no interest then they probably don't connect deeply with me on other broad interests that tie in either. So yes, while I only know my boyfriend as he is now (and he tests even more secure than I do!), based on things he's told me about his background, his family, his relationship history, and his own impressive journey deciding to make some difficult and respectable life changes a few years ago, I do suspect he is earned secure (probably from AP, even though he doesn't act AP at all). I find the benefit of that versus someone who has always been secure is when I do talk to him about some parts of my past and "journey" and extended family that I'm sure sound odd to someone who doesn't have experience with insecure attachment styles, he understands it and there's zero fear or judgement in how he responds. In fact, he often has additional good points to add that I hadn't even thought of even after all this time studying it. So, the additional layer of familiarity has allowed our connection and trust to grow. I also believe as long as you find a partner who is at the same point in their growth journey as you and committed to continuing on that individual journey, no matter what their attachment style, you can likely work it out and continue to grow together (as long as there aren't other blatant lifestyle dealbreakers such as one of you wants kids and one doesn't). That could be two people both with insecure attachment styles and aware of it, it could be two people already earned secure, it could be two secures, it could be one earned secure and one always secure... lots of possibilities and hope  My process didn't involve Gibson's videos because I didn't know about them at the time, but from the other side of earning secure, I've generally found my perspectives now are totally in line with anything of hers I've watched recently and I also recommend them. When I was unaware of my attachment style but trying to figure out how to change, I found both Clay Andrews and Jayson Gaddis's free online content (videos and podcasts) incredibly helpful on the learning better communication and healthy relationship skills front. They both have additional courses that are not free as well, but I can't comment on them. Jayson sounds earned secure from FA and his wife sounds earned secure from AP, and they had a rocky relationship until they individually started working to earn secure (they also both became psychologists), so embedded in his stuff and in their Relationship School podcast is a success story. But neither Clay nor Jayson's content focuses on being about "attachment theory" specifically, whereas Thais's does. kittygirl, I'm glad you're having a lot of success with somatic experiencing. That seems to be really helpful on this forum for everyone who has tried it and found talk therapy didn't work as well for them. I've also noticed it seems even more helpful for DA and FA posters who have had difficulty making progress in other ways, but I don't know if that's me jumping to a broad conclusion based on just a few examples |
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alice
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Post by alice on Oct 23, 2020 6:22:01 GMT
I'd believe that opinion that two earned/earning-secure partners can form really strong connections because of how much work on becoming a good communicator earning secure involves. I really agree with this. I think you bond relating to each other as well and the journey you have been on. I am struggling, just a bit, with the person I am seeing because he seems to have a super stable background with literally zero complaints. I have engaged with others who have traumatic childhood issues but are self aware and working on improvements, and we have been able to bounce ideas off of each other in a way that has promoted growth. The outcome of that is bonding and a closer friendship/relationship. I have no idea how to approach this with someone who has zero experience with a dysfunctional family. |
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Post by anne12 on Oct 23, 2020 9:43:36 GMT
alice The good thing about finding a secure partner is that you "risk" getting good, healthy, supportive inlaws and/or other family members, new friends ect.. Also your partner mirrors healthy coping strategies to you. Also your nerveussystem can settle more easily with a secure partner. Couples counceling with someone how works with attatchemt, EFT ect. is always an option. I would axcually prefer couples counseling for all couples in the beginning of a relationship instead of when things are starting to go downhill. And some of the couples exercises on this board and from other experts are always helpfull. If the person is secure theres a change that they are open to be supportive and want to learn more. You "just" have to open your mouth and talk to them. Theres something called shadow wows. Imo you can use the technique wether you are getting married or not. I like the idea of it. www.shadowwedding.com/basics.htmlSecures can have their own struggles in their life. Being secure dosent mean that you never have challenges in your life. Theres also the generational gab. What was "normal" gender differencies in our parents relationship, isent the same in our own generation. We are all raised diffrently and we go through different lifestages We can also create supportive networks outside of our relationship. As Breene Brown is saying: Women needs a village. Its also recommended for men to have support groups.
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alice
Full Member
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Post by alice on Oct 25, 2020 3:15:46 GMT
anne Thanks for your thoughts. I know that our relationship would be stable and good on the practical level. I just worry about connecting. There are some other reasons that I outlined in another post as well. We are both type A. I am not used to dating type A. I generally find myself in relationships with laid back men, and they're fine with me organizing our lives while I appreciate their flexibility. This is not the case here. Every suggestion I make as far as what we do, he questions and checks details about. I don't know that I like it. I'm trying to be honest with myself about where any of this is attachment related. I think I am, but I post because sometimes we can't see the things we are closest to. With couples counseling, I have always thought that is a great idea to start that prior to marriage. I'm not sure when but I would say when there is a good level of commitment. I see it as building relationship skills which, who couldn't use more of these? I can admit, I don't really know if he would or wouldn't be supportive of me. I'm not sure what he is good at in that area. I'm also not sure when the timing would be right. I tested him on a broad level mentioning to him that my family had some rough times growing up. All he had to say was that he had no complaints. I'd be interested to know what his struggles are. He just complains about not making his technique goals while playing tennis (zzzz). I have built a small village for myself, and I continue to do so. That was a journey I started after my last serious breakup years ago when I realized how much he isolated me from people. It's great advice that I try to give to everyone as it has changed my life a lot. I also ask men I date who they go to to share good news or for advice. That is my testing to see what support system they have. The last FA I dated two years ago couldn't really answer me. I think it can show some things about a person.
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Post by anne12 on Oct 25, 2020 5:28:03 GMT
alice I was only commenting on this "I have no idea how to approach this with someone who has zero experience with a dysfunctional family"
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annes
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by annes on Oct 28, 2020 14:21:35 GMT
Thank you kittygirl . I've checked the personal development school and enrolled the "emotional mastery" course. Your account sounded very compelling and to me, it feels like a huge priority to be able to handle my emotions. I think the course is very interesting and I'm learning a lot (I'm still half-way). My core wounds are definitely related to abandonment fears. As a kid, I saw my mother wanting to die and being very depressed most of the time. So I was constantly worried of her abandoning me. This has left a deep wound I am realizing. Whenever a partner acts in a non consistent way, I obsess - this person is leaving me, I tell myself, and get incredibly anxious. It's interesting that in the course it is said that we tend to filter reality through the beliefs triggered by these core wounds. In fact, in many other occasions, also non-romantic ones, I keep being triggered whenever someone is being ambivalent or there is a risky situation, I immediately think: "See, I am unworthy, they will find out, and they're gonna leave/exclude me". It's also somehow surprising that I've been able to build a career and move to several countries with no resources at all (coming from a working class family) with all this emotional baggage. But after a deep crisis in my life due to relationships I've been, it seems like I'm broken and can't seem to put myself together again. Therapy is helping but not enough. Though I'm doing everything I can. My abandonment fears prevent me from being happy and push people away and keep attracting emotionally unavailable partners. This is hard. But thank you and you're doing a great job. Very inspiring. Keep going. |
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Post by kittygirl on Oct 29, 2020 19:33:59 GMT
annes that makes me so happy. Just KNOWING what your wounds are (being targeted when you are triggered so it's no longer like "I feel like sh*t" but rather "This is making me feel unloved") has basically been night and day for me in terms of dealing with triggers. Now when I am triggered, I think "Ok WHY is this making me feel bad. Ah ok...I feel disconnected. Alright what are concrete examples where I am connected to others?" and I start to literally feel the pain and anxiety start to diminish. I obviously have no guarantee that Thais approach will work for everyone to earn secure, but she has seen thousands of clients and it's clear she has an approach that is so knowledgeable and clear and it works (at least for me!) Please please keep us updated on how you like it!
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annes
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by annes on Nov 2, 2020 2:02:31 GMT
I will. Thanks! You're right, it's like all of this helps recognizing triggers, disentangling them, and seeing them from a "distance" that helps control. I don't expect this course to "change" this, but it gives important and new insights and every little step towards a healthier emotional life is just GOLD to me.
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