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Post by maxymax on Oct 29, 2020 21:59:21 GMT
I've been avoiding posting anything for a while but after having seen my ex last weekend I need to just put my thoughts out there, vent, converse about things a bit.
Unfortunately my ex is one of my best friends fiances sister, so occasionally I have to see her at group gatherings. For more details, I have a couple of posts about her and our relationship on here.
From my latest encounter, The positives: I didn't feel the desire to have a conversation with her or flirt with her or see if that connection is still there or not. I wasn't crippled by horrible visceral anxiety like I had in the past when seeing her. While she was sitting in the group I was speaking with, I acted myself and didn't not partake in the conversations because she was there. The negatives: I couldn't confidently look her in the face/eyes, found myself looking at her and thinking about how we used to be at these things together and we always had so much fun together and how I missed her being mine, how she could sit there and not even try to catch a glimpse of me out of the corner of her eye, how she could sit there and not be reminded of anything between us, how I'm not even a speck of dust in her universe. Had to over hear her talking about her long distance bf, who she is with almost for a year, a guy she met & slept with behind my back the first time we dated (although didn't verbally define exclusivity, for many reasons it was very wrong and definitely not ok)
I recognized I've made progress. I'm not anxious all of the time. I'm still depressed but it's much more manageable and is likely related to other things. My thoughts aren't 97% about her/the relationship/trying to figure it all out, though I do still think about things every day at some point. But there's been some progress.
The rest of this post may just be my ramblings, the thoughts I have on a daily basis, thoughts that have popped up since seeing her.
For a while, I found comfort in so many people on various forums and 3 therapists (1 being a relative of mine) have said this girl has serious issues, that she will be replaying this pattern of 3 month flings over and over, the attachment issues, overall that the end of my relationship was mostly due to her issues, selfishly, that she's not likely to find a good relationship anytime soon. Well it feels like since she's now maintained this long distance relationship for almost a year now, where they've lived with each other for a few months at a time, that everybody was wrong about her. That she's perfectly fine and capable of being the amazing girlfriend I always thought she was capable of being. You don't date somebody for a year and live with them for months at a time and not have to resolve issues/arguments, or not communicate effectively. So all that goes out the window and the guy she slept with behind my back that she just had to go and make her boyfriend is getting the amazing girl I always knew she was.
Wtf does he have or bring to the table that I didn't? Why is she willing to put in the effort to make an international long distance relationship work but wasn't willing to have not even one conversation with me about things that were bothering her? She's obviously found a way to communicate with this guy. Kills me that despite her professing such strong feelings for me, she just ended it out of nowhere, never looked back, dropped me like it was absolutely nothing.
Maybe the relationship only works for her because she gets the high of being together 3-4 months at a time, typically traveling around, and then she gets a break of a month or two before getting that high again. Or maybe they're just a match made in freaking heaven. Two free spirits made perfect for each other.
Why did she sleep with this guy behind my back in the first place? We were having such positive experiences together literally days leading up to the family trip she went on. She took me on this great planned out date as her christmas gift to me. She told me being with me the last few months was the happiest she'd been in so long, days before leaving "I'm not going to fuck you over, you got me babe, I'm all yours", on the trip she was texting me everyday keeping me updated, wishing me sweet dreams every night. How could she sleep with the hired help on a family vacation? I mean she literally likely texted me right before or right after she freaking did it too. Why!? We were having a great time together, had such a great time together whether that was going out or staying in together, had deep vulnerable talks.
When we got back together months later, I asked her what happened and she said she was already withdrawing into herself before she left for that trip and she got really drunk and it happened. She never showed any signs of withdrawing at all. We were talking every single day, still seeing each other 2-3 times a week, she was texting me the entire trip. Maybe she said that as a way to justify it? Even if that would still be a terrible justification. Or maybe I was just too into her, too good to her, trying too hard and it actually did turn her off and caused her to lose that attraction for me and withdraw into herself.
Thinking back on things from the first time we dated, maybe I was just way over the top and ruined everything. The big dates I planned. These little things I did for her. The things she was saying, the way she would act, I thought she was absolutely crazy about me. I think, I'm doing these things/saying these things, getting a lot of positive responses, keep doing what I'm doing. But maybe I really just fucked it all up.
I hate more than anything she's been more in love with and more committed to the guy she slept with behind my back.
I hate that she professed all this love and special feelings and all of that to me and then dumped me without ever trying to even hint at something being wrong.
If she didn't think and feel something real with me why the hell did she get back together with me a few months later. There had to be something real there for us to get together twice. Why wasn't it worth fighting for the second time around when we were committed to each other? Was any of it real though? Or was it all just her playing me and having a few months of fun and entertainment?
Read some old texts/a poem she wrote for me - so sad that I was once always on her mind. That she was so excited about me and being together. That she would always tell me how much fun she had with me the day after a big date. That she felt so much for me. that she smiled so genuinely because of me. Yet she still did something(s) so messed up. She probably doesn't even remember just how excited and happy and loving she felt. Probably doesn't remember any of those cute things she said or texted to me. Or remember the experiences we had.
Regret the stupid arguments I started with her. Or maybe they were worthwhile boundaries of mine to fight for. Probably should have communicated better though either way. If those arguments we had were a huge issue though I would think a good partner sits the other down and says these arguments have to stop they're ruining things for me. Or maybe not?
I don't understand how a girl that seemed so sweet, genuine, caring, thoughtful, loving, deep in their feelings, that all the time showed empathy for other people and animals and situations, could also be so inconsiderate and cruel.
I just miss the girl she was when we were together and things were good. Every time I walk around my neighborhood a bar, a restaurant, a bench reminds me of an amazing time we spent there. When we would sit together and she'd light up and hold my hand and rest her head on my shoulder and we'd be laughing and talking and kissing and everything felt so perfect.
Hate so much she has given more of herself and commitment to this kid than anything I ever got. I truly think I'd be able to swallow it so much more if it were anybody else. The fact she seems to be proving the theory she has too many issues to maintain a serious relationship work wrong grinds my gears in a way.
I don't know why I can't muster up any hate for her or at the least disgust for her after everything. When somebody would normally want nothing to do with this person and thoughts of them would probably disgust them when thinking about the things she did to me, I'm sad that she didn't feel enough for me to not want to do the bad things. I'm sad I wasn't enough for her to not want to screw somebody behind my back.
Feels like I've rambled on completely incoherently long enough. I just needed to get it out instead of letting the thoughts loop in my head.
Sorry.
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Post by kittygirl on Oct 30, 2020 0:37:01 GMT
First of all, I want to say how much I (and others on this forum I am sure) can relate to your pain. It's so painful to feel a strong connection to someone and then either a) they don't feel the same or b) they do feel the same but their triggers are such that they can't manage being in a relationship. Thais Gibson talks a lot about how, if someone feels extremely strong for us (like a 9/10) but they are getting triggered extremely strong (7/10) they may only feel like they have a 2/10 connection with you. So what's my point in all this? It's to tell you that, HONESTLY, trying to figure out which of the categories she falls into (wasn't into you, was super into you, was super into you but was super triggered, etc etc etc) is meaningless. It doesn't change the outcome. Someone recenetly (alexandra??) was talking about how APs on these boards are constantly ruminating about "why" and "what if" etc and really that is just a way to control the situation...which I agree with 100%. This isn't about her. It's about your wounding. Honestly. I would say your poisitives are great and you should focus on that. You saw her and you weren't all crazy triggered and wanting to flirt...thats great! Celebrate small victories. Getting over these intensely charged relationships can be so painful and difficult-especially if you make it mean something about you that it doesn't.Her not wanting to be in a relationship with you says NOTHING about you-how likeable you are, whether you are enough, etc. If you want to combat these thoughts, think of concrete evidence you have in your life that suggests you are those things. I do this and it helps me immeasurably Regret the stupid arguments I started with her. Or maybe they were worthwhile boundaries of mine to fight for. Probably should have communicated better though either way. If those arguments we had were a huge issue though I would think a good partner sits the other down and says these arguments have to stop they're ruining things for me. Or maybe not?
Well, here you basically ask and answer your own question. YES a good partner WOULD sit down and talk about how the arguments are too much for them. Absolutely.It makes it impossible to grow as a couple or tackle issues without that. Likewise though, why were you starting arguments? Were these the manifestation of insecurity you had? Did you get jealous and pick fights or want reassurance that she cared and pick fights as a way of seeing that? A good partner also doesn't do those things but rather asks for them upfront (I obviously have no idea why you argued...but be very honest with yourself about why you would pick fights. This happens for a reason). This has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with you being a good person (or her!) but insecurely attached people don't typically make "good partners" because of all the reasons you (and now I) have said. I am not coming down on you I promise-but I would encourage you to shift the focus completely inward (very hard for APs since their attachment style is all about focusing on others-I get it) and find out how you can show up to your next relationship as a secure partner.
No one can know why she is more committed to this person...maybe the distance helps (it helps me a ton to get less triggered) maybe this guy is more compatible with her, maybe he is more avoidant than she is (super common) and so it's triggering her anxious...etc etc. But if she had attachment related issues with you SHE HAS THEM WITH HIM. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean they disappeared. Attachment stuff won't go away magically with a new environment...it might shift or change in other way, but it won't go away because that work can only be done within.
It sounds like you have already made some progress and that is great. when you get into these spaces of ruminating you have to remind yourself this is someone else's issue. Really. So instead, focus on how you can show up to your next relationship as a healthier person who has done healing. She has her own baggage she will have to deal with. You can at least move forward armed with knowledge on attachment that she likely doesn't have. This will change your future completely if you let it
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Post by alexandra on Oct 30, 2020 3:10:35 GMT
maxymax I agree with kittygirl that the key to this is focusing on yourself and not your ex. (And I probably did talk about fixating on one's partner as a form of AP attempt at gaining control in a way, sounds like something I'd say!) I'd like to point out two things. First will be about the ex, second about you. 1. I don't think all those people who told you the comforting words that your ex has issues and will repeat not being a good partner were wrong. In fact, I still fully agree with that sentiment. You answered your own question, in fact. Yes, she is staying in a relationship where she can be in vacation-mode with her boyfriend for a few weeks here and there, and be on vacation AWAY from her boyfriend the rest of the time. But, do you see what that means? With international distance, and without an end point to that distance, she never has to actually build anything with him and be a fully committed or good partner. Which is not what it sounded like you want. As someone who wants (and is currently in) a serious relationship, I would never enter an indefinite long-distance relationship, especially internationally. If there's an end time in sight, maybe. If I was already seriously dating someone and they had to leave for a good reason for a year, okay, we can weather that. But just starting something up? No way, NOT if I wanted a serious relationship or was serious about being and having a good partner. This is also a story that recurs on this board, and happened recently to Helsbells. She did work on herself after being devastated by her FA ex who did the same thing, and then she was able to move on to a better relationship. 2. The more important part: about you. I'm sorry you still feel all this anxiety and pain after so long has passed. I've been there, I get it, it sucks. But there's something I noticed in your post. You talk about how you felt better when people told you what I addressed in point 1. Which means, external validation made you feel better. Other people, whom you might know in real life or not, made you feel better. What's missing is that this was a temporary bandaid because you haven't been able to internalize it and internally validate yourself. You are letting other people define you at every turn. Specifically, you are defining and valuing yourself through your perception of what your ex thinks of you. How is that fair? Why would you let someone damaged themselves assign your value? And continue imagining the worst story about yourself as possible, as you're telling yourself through "her eyes," all this time later? This is why you're still in pain. This is why the advice you'll get on this forum is focus on yourself, not her. The core AP wound is fear of abandonment. It involves trusting others more than self. In fact, AP distrusts themselves, creates a negative narrative about themselves, doesn't have the tools available to practice self-acceptance, self-forgiveness, to build self-esteem... AP look for external emotional regulation and look to provide the same for others. This is all part of that core wound and needs to be confronted and addressed for you to move on. You need to figure out how to define yourself and feel accomplished and positive about yourself without anyone else assigning you their definitions of who you are or who you should be. This is the AP struggle, and confronting this is really hard, but it's how change actually happens. Tied up in all that is learning those tools, learning healthy boundaries for yourself, and connecting to yourself as you are and without the negative narrative. If you're in enough pain to be ready to do that, anne12 posts good tips and tricks in the general forum about healing yourself for all 3 insecure attachment styles. And there's several threads where people offer advice on this, including one happening right now on the support-AP board. I think you can do this. You're just fighting lots of patterned conditioning you may not have seen previously. But a lot of us have been there, and you can heal from the person you're still stuck on... I know from personal experience getting stuck on exes for waaaaay too long  This was the way forward that finally stopped me from repeating. So be kind to yourself
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Post by annieb on Oct 30, 2020 14:23:02 GMT
I feel your pain through my phone screen. And I read a lot of projections and wondering and I just want to say that there are always two sides to the story. And while things seem one way to you, they may seem completely different to the other person. But as AP you have to analyze every detail to validate your side of the story so to speak. Because if you don’t you will lose yourself. Something like that. I don’t know if I’m explaining this correctly. But through this whole write up I want to see more of you. How you feel. That’s what’s missing.
Who knows why she is in a relationship with the long distance guy. My best guess is she doesn’t seem engulfed with him and can tolerate him a few weeks at a time. Nothing wrong with that.
That she cheated on you should be giving you a pause instead of putting this woman on a giant pedestal. Cheating is abhorrent and is a total dealbreaker for most people. Why isn’t it a dealbreaker for you? Why do you continue thinking that this girl is some sort of holy grail, when she frankly isn’t.
I feel you’re in this negative validation trap with this whole story. As if you are creating this narrative about how she is capable of a relationship with someone else, but not with you to validate yourself negatively. When you turn more healthy with therapy, you should start seeing cracks in this thread, and you’re going to stop wanting to analyze her and start focusing on you. Your behavior. Your feelings. we focus on what the other is doing so that we don’t have to focus on ourselves.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 30, 2020 14:40:48 GMT
maxymax....I so relate.....you can read back over all my questions after B started dating again. I too had the same questions...why her? What did she do that I did not. Friends were kind, telling me that even if she was different, he had not done any work on himself. They are now married and I still don’t have my answers.....but that is not my point. Therapists, friends, board members can tell you all kind of things about why this one works and why it literally has nothing to do with her capability to have a good relationship....but that will not provide any relief, because it doesn’t come from you. You dated her, you got to know her...so the feedback from people who don’t know her the way you do are going to be scrutinized. But this isn’t about figuring her out...or him out.....except what it says about you. And believe me...I have been in that comparison trap...what did I do wrong, what did the other person do right...as if there is a nice formula that ties the two together....which there isn’t...but until you believe that for yourself, their relationship won’t make sense other then making it seem like she chose him over you. Personally, i think it would be the most self loving thing for you to completely disengage from her and from him. If that means having other plans when your best friend invites you over, completely blocking all access to her and his information on Facebook and other social media and ensuring no one shares anything with you about her....than do it. I also think putting equal amounts of attention on doing things you love and that affirm you as you are in thinking about her, him and them will help you create even more space for self love. I applaud the progress you have already made but there are still “ripples” that sucking you back into a no win, self defeating thought process. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I will never know why B had such a vastly different relationship with the next girl...but I can stop trying to make that relationship say something about me...because it doesn’t. I won’t let it now have that kind of power over me. I am unique and worthy all on my own. I noticed you mention your depression...are you on medication? How is that working? My medication was a game changer...I don’t know why I white knuckled it for decades when thee was a chemistry issue in my brain. Doing things that you enjoy also helps with depression so it becomes a double win. In any event....keep coming here and keep taking those steps forward and celebrating those victories.
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Post by maxymax on Oct 30, 2020 22:47:55 GMT
Regret the stupid arguments I started with her. Or maybe they were worthwhile boundaries of mine to fight for. Probably should have communicated better though either way. If those arguments we had were a huge issue though I would think a good partner sits the other down and says these arguments have to stop they're ruining things for me. Or maybe not? Well, here you basically ask and answer your own question. YES a good partner WOULD sit down and talk about how the arguments are too much for them. Absolutely.It makes it impossible to grow as a couple or tackle issues without that. Likewise though, why were you starting arguments? Were these the manifestation of insecurity you had? Did you get jealous and pick fights or want reassurance that she cared and pick fights as a way of seeing that? A good partner also doesn't do those things but rather asks for them upfront (I obviously have no idea why you argued...but be very honest with yourself about why you would pick fights. This happens for a reason). This has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with you being a good person (or her!) but insecurely attached people don't typically make "good partners" because of all the reasons you (and now I) have said. I am not coming down on you I promise-but I would encourage you to shift the focus completely inward (very hard for APs since their attachment style is all about focusing on others-I get it) and find out how you can show up to your next relationship as a secure partner.
No one can know why she is more committed to this person...maybe the distance helps (it helps me a ton to get less triggered) maybe this guy is more compatible with her, maybe he is more avoidant than she is (super common) and so it's triggering her anxious...etc etc. But if she had attachment related issues with you SHE HAS THEM WITH HIM. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean they disappeared. Attachment stuff won't go away magically with a new environment...it might shift or change in other way, but it won't go away because that work can only be done within.
It sounds like you have already made some progress and that is great. when you get into these spaces of ruminating you have to remind yourself this is someone else's issue. Really. So instead, focus on how you can show up to your next relationship as a healthier person who has done healing. She has her own baggage she will have to deal with. You can at least move forward armed with knowledge on attachment that she likely doesn't have. This will change your future completely if you let it
Not to name every fight but the ones I remember: She was best friends with her ex boyfriend, one night she was out with him and his friends, she wound up sleeping at her ex boyfriends apartment. She had slept with her ex boyfriend a few days after we had broken up the first time (so about 5 or 6 months prior), I told her that I wasn't ok with her sleeping there or him sleeping at her place because of that. She didn't see it as a big deal and it turned into a more contested argument and I had to say it's a boundary for me if you can't respect that then I'm not sure where we go from here.
We were laying on the couch together and she was on her phone, a very close family friend of hers from overseas, who I knew she had fooled around with about 3 months prior while she was in Europe, messaged her something that I was pretty damn sure was flirty and she responded back with some hearts. I got into a bit of a mood over it (we had been drinking all day) and when she asked me what was wrong, I asked her what happened between them, she initially said nothing ever happened, then a few minutes later admitted that they had hooked up 3 months ago, I was pissed she responded to him and then essentially lied to my face about it. She later texted me apologizing, saying she was caught off guard and told me the truth right away and that the guy was a family friend from childhood and she felt she did nothing wrong simply responding to an DM.
The next day after that fight, she brought up how that same day I had confronted a drunk guy that was trying to chat her up/flirt with her literally in my face at the bar we had been at earlier that day. She said she didn't like when I do that, that she can handle herself and I need to trust her and that it makes her feel contained or something along those lines. I admitted I handled it poorly but I didn't like how disrespectful he was being literally in my face. This was more of a conversation than argument for sure.
When we were first getting back together, she was making an attempt to be open and honest with me by telling me that this guy that she had slept with a few times between our relationships, who I know and lived with one of my best friends, had texted her. I don't remember the entire conversation but at some point she said something like he was just a fuckboy and that's it if I had wanted something with him trust me I could have or something like that and I got mad and said to her something like you think I want to hear about how much you slept with this guy despite me telling you how much it bothered me that he was so close to my group of friends and had to walk out of the room.
Really the biggest argument was about the guy from overseas DMing her and her responding. We talked about it the next day. She didn't let it go for a few days. We talked again a few days later and thought we really moved past it after that. Maybe I was wrong to be upset about some of the things I was. Maybe a more securely attached/confident person wouldn't have let those things get to them? Or maybe I had every right to be upset about those things but should I have let my initial reaction pass and had a more constructive conversation the next day and that would have changed everything. I know I need to look more inward. And I do. I just needed to rant/vent a bit. maxymax I agree with kittygirl that the key to this is focusing on yourself and not your ex. (And I probably did talk about fixating on one's partner as a form of AP attempt at gaining control in a way, sounds like something I'd say!) I'd like to point out two things. First will be about the ex, second about you. 1. I don't think all those people who told you the comforting words that your ex has issues and will repeat not being a good partner were wrong. In fact, I still fully agree with that sentiment. You answered your own question, in fact. Yes, she is staying in a relationship where she can be in vacation-mode with her boyfriend for a few weeks here and there, and be on vacation AWAY from her boyfriend the rest of the time. But, do you see what that means? With international distance, and without an end point to that distance, she never has to actually build anything with him and be a fully committed or good partner. Which is not what it sounded like you want. As someone who wants (and is currently in) a serious relationship, I would never enter an indefinite long-distance relationship, especially internationally. If there's an end time in sight, maybe. If I was already seriously dating someone and they had to leave for a good reason for a year, okay, we can weather that. But just starting something up? No way, NOT if I wanted a serious relationship or was serious about being and having a good partner. This is also a story that recurs on this board, and happened recently to Helsbells . She did work on herself after being devastated by her FA ex who did the same thing, and then she was able to move on to a better relationship. 2. The more important part: about you. I'm sorry you still feel all this anxiety and pain after so long has passed. I've been there, I get it, it sucks. But there's something I noticed in your post. You talk about how you felt better when people told you what I addressed in point 1. Which means, external validation made you feel better. Other people, whom you might know in real life or not, made you feel better. What's missing is that this was a temporary bandaid because you haven't been able to internalize it and internally validate yourself. You are letting other people define you at every turn. Specifically, you are defining and valuing yourself through your perception of what your ex thinks of you. How is that fair? Why would you let someone damaged themselves assign your value? And continue imagining the worst story about yourself as possible, as you're telling yourself through "her eyes," all this time later? This is why you're still in pain. This is why the advice you'll get on this forum is focus on yourself, not her. The core AP wound is fear of abandonment. It involves trusting others more than self. In fact, AP distrusts themselves, creates a negative narrative about themselves, doesn't have the tools available to practice self-acceptance, self-forgiveness, to build self-esteem... AP look for external emotional regulation and look to provide the same for others. This is all part of that core wound and needs to be confronted and addressed for you to move on. You need to figure out how to define yourself and feel accomplished and positive about yourself without anyone else assigning you their definitions of who you are or who you should be. This is the AP struggle, and confronting this is really hard, but it's how change actually happens. Tied up in all that is learning those tools, learning healthy boundaries for yourself, and connecting to yourself as you are and without the negative narrative. If you're in enough pain to be ready to do that, anne12 posts good tips and tricks in the general forum about healing yourself for all 3 insecure attachment styles. And there's several threads where people offer advice on this, including one happening right now on the support-AP board. I think you can do this. You're just fighting lots of patterned conditioning you may not have seen previously. But a lot of us have been there, and you can heal from the person you're still stuck on... I know from personal experience getting stuck on exes for waaaaay too long This was the way forward that finally stopped me from repeating. So be kind to yourself I think I felt better when people said she has issues not so much because it meant it wasn't me, I still place blame on myself, but more because it meant she wouldn't be able to maintain a good relationship with anybody else. For me it meant the same pattern would repeat for her and nobody would get a better version or more effort or love or affection out of her. I know I need to focus more on myself. And I certainly don't find myself ruminating on what I did wrong, what's wrong with me type stuff anymore, maybe very very rarely. I find myself thinking just about the happy times and when things were good and how much I miss that and her as a person. But obviously subconsciously I don't feel much better about myself if I'm still hurting over this. I'm not sure why I give her so much value. I guess I tend not to weigh the negatives as much as the positives. The number of good times far outweigh the bad times, although, people have said the bad outweigh the good in severity and that's likely true, I still apparently haven't internalized it. Very much struggling to rebuild my confidence and self-esteem. Like truly battling. It feels like trying to fight my way out of quick sand. Any minute momentary feeling of progress is quickly replaced by utter depression and self loathing. Not even related to her, but to my life. She was the spark that ignited a powder keg that was being filled over a long period of time. I will definitely check out anne12's posts though! thank you for mentioning that! I feel your pain through my phone screen. And I read a lot of projections and wondering and I just want to say that there are always two sides to the story. And while things seem one way to you, they may seem completely different to the other person. But as AP you have to analyze every detail to validate your side of the story so to speak. Because if you don’t you will lose yourself. Something like that. I don’t know if I’m explaining this correctly. But through this whole write up I want to see more of you. How you feel. That’s what’s missing. Who knows why she is in a relationship with the long distance guy. My best guess is she doesn’t seem engulfed with him and can tolerate him a few weeks at a time. Nothing wrong with that. That she cheated on you should be giving you a pause instead of putting this woman on a giant pedestal. Cheating is abhorrent and is a total dealbreaker for most people. Why isn’t it a dealbreaker for you? Why do you continue thinking that this girl is some sort of holy grail, when she frankly isn’t. I feel you’re in this negative validation trap with this whole story. As if you are creating this narrative about how she is capable of a relationship with someone else, but not with you to validate yourself negatively. When you turn more healthy with therapy, you should start seeing cracks in this thread, and you’re going to stop wanting to analyze her and start focusing on you. Your behavior. Your feelings. we focus on what the other is doing so that we don’t have to focus on ourselves. I definitely understand what you're saying. For I don't even know how long I couldn't stop analyzing every text, every word we said to each other, everything that happened. It was utter depression and extreme anxiety. It's not like that at all anymore. But I do think about her and us and things that were said and things we did and get sad about what happened. And sometimes find myself thinking like, "Just before she broke up with me she said/did this I can't believe she just dumped me out of nowhere. What the hell happened, what the hell changed" but I won't go and comb every intimate detail. I know I won't find an answer. I'm 99% sure even if she told me exactly why she broke up with me and what events lead to that and her thoughts, I would still rebuttal with "evidence" from my experience. In fact, we did have a conversation like that, and the things she said, to me, didn't make any sense. Now whether she was being completely honest and transparent and forthcoming, I don't know? I'm not sure about the cheating thing. I don't know why I brush it aside as something so small. Maybe because technically we weren't exclusive. I think maybe because it for some reason makes me more sad that she was professing all these feelings for me yet it wasn't enough for her not to do what she did. It makes me sad that what we had together, what was going on between us, wasn't enough for her not sleep with this kid on that family trip. Maybe because she admitted it was wrong and committed to me and said she would never cheat on a boyfriend and I just figured people make mistakes, I was no angel in my younger days. I thought she realized not only did she screw up but realized what she had lost in me. I wish it made me furious. I wish it made me disgusted. I wish it made me hate her. I'm not sure why it doesn't. Not sure why it only makes me sad. Not sure why I always say "I can't believe she fucked that boat guy when we were together" or something like that like I actually cannot believe it. maxymax ....I so relate.....you can read back over all my questions after B started dating again. I too had the same questions...why her? What did she do that I did not. Friends were kind, telling me that even if she was different, he had not done any work on himself. They are now married and I still don’t have my answers.....but that is not my point. Therapists, friends, board members can tell you all kind of things about why this one works and why it literally has nothing to do with her capability to have a good relationship....but that will not provide any relief, because it doesn’t come from you. You dated her, you got to know her...so the feedback from people who don’t know her the way you do are going to be scrutinized. But this isn’t about figuring her out...or him out.....except what it says about you. And believe me...I have been in that comparison trap...what did I do wrong, what did the other person do right...as if there is a nice formula that ties the two together....which there isn’t...but until you believe that for yourself, their relationship won’t make sense other then making it seem like she chose him over you. Personally, i think it would be the most self loving thing for you to completely disengage from her and from him. If that means having other plans when your best friend invites you over, completely blocking all access to her and his information on Facebook and other social media and ensuring no one shares anything with you about her....than do it. I also think putting equal amounts of attention on doing things you love and that affirm you as you are in thinking about her, him and them will help you create even more space for self love. I applaud the progress you have already made but there are still “ripples” that sucking you back into a no win, self defeating thought process. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I will never know why B had such a vastly different relationship with the next girl...but I can stop trying to make that relationship say something about me...because it doesn’t. I won’t let it now have that kind of power over me. I am unique and worthy all on my own. I noticed you mention your depression...are you on medication? How is that working? My medication was a game changer...I don’t know why I white knuckled it for decades when thee was a chemistry issue in my brain. Doing things that you enjoy also helps with depression so it becomes a double win. In any event....keep coming here and keep taking those steps forward and celebrating those victories. I'm not currently on medication. I was for a few months when the depression and anxiety were really deep and somewhat debilitating. I came off it though and have been off it for a few months now. I'm thinking of getting back on something though because I am really struggling with this low level depression, that while not as severe as before, feels almost more inhibiting and there are times I have slipped into some seriously dark thoughts. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 30, 2020 23:29:47 GMT
maxymax ....yes, I think being on medication does help so much with the dark thoughts. I am on lexapro and it has helped tremendously. Please let me know how it goes. i will add that for me.....lexapro allows me access to “reason” and a “pause” so I can be above the feelings and not just swirling in them. Believe me...I know depression sucks. Every once in while I feel that “nothing matters” cloud and it reminds me of how things were before the medication. Just keep reminding yourself that this is not tied to you...you are not your depression. I do hope you feel better soon.
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Post by maxymax on Nov 2, 2020 23:10:59 GMT
Yesterday was my best friend & fiance's engagement party which meant seeing my ex again. Had to see her parents for the first time since we broke up as well.
I felt absolutely fine going into the day. Made it a point to be extra warm and friendly to her parents and their friends that were there that I had previously met. They seemed genuinely happy to see me and catch up with me. It was really nice seeing them again after so much time. It was nice that they were so warm towards me. It felt good to know that I killed it with them in just being super polite and helpful and generous. I was excusing myself from a conversation with my ex because it just felt like it was time to get up and offered to get her mother a drink when I got up to get one and she said how sweet I was. It felt good to reinstate a more positive image of myself in their eyes after having definitely made a fool of myself a few times last year.It was just really nice to see them, speak to them, catch up, and to "fix" their impression of me.
I never once felt that anxiety I used to feel being around her post break up. I didn't feel desperate for her attention or desperate for her in anyway. I didn't feel that horrible aching heartbreak.
Probably had a couple too many drinks and that lead to me perhaps giving her more time and attention than I should have. But it wasn't me chasing/following her around the party like I did in the past when we were freshly broken up. It was her inviting me to sit next to her when I was standing. Or us just bumping into each other as we moved through the party.
Definitely found myself looking at her from across the room a few times. Caught her looking at me once or twice as well. I didn't feel sad really looking at her, I guess just a little ping of sadness. Felt good to catch her. At least once during the party when she was passing by me while I was talking to a friend we locked eyes as she passed by and we just smiled at each other. I think even last weekend I wouldn't have been able to look her in the face like that and not immediately look away. It felt good to be able to not look away and just confidently look her in the eyes and give her a smile. Obviously felt good that she locked eyes with me and smiled back too.
It was really nice talking to each other again. Not in the, because we're talking it's soothing my anxiety or I want to impress you/get you to want me again, type way, just in that very normal sense that it felt good talking to each other. It felt good for me personally to be able to sit there talking with her and just feel completely normal and myself. It felt good to see her reacting so positively with me too no doubt. Felt good to be in control of myself. It felt good to flirt a little bit. To make her laugh. Overall just felt good to be sitting/standing there together talking. Even better was to be able to do that without the anxiety and pain like I had every time I saw her/interacted with her last year.
Some of it felt almost reassuring that that connection between us still seemed to be there after all this time, after everything that happened. To know that it wasn't all in my head, it wasn't all a lie. At the same time, in a post break up conversation we had, I asked her if the connection was real. She said yea, yea, and then said she didn't know, that she thinks she's a really easy person to get along with. So maybe it was just her friendliness and absolutely nothing more. Just friendly, chivalrous, conversation between two old friends.
Definitely find myself wondering if seeing me/speaking to me has caused her to think of anything relating to me and our past whatsoever. Or if absolutely nothing registers for her whatsoever, not even the tiniest of blips on the radar.
It's sad at one point she seemed so happy and in love with me and we would speak everyday and spend so much time together. It's sad that this is how everything has turned out. It's sad that I likely mean less than nothing to her. Seeing me was absolutely nothing. It's sad to have been sitting there together, talking, flirting, feeling this connection again, feel like it could all work out, feel like we actually could be good together, but also have to force myself to remember of the terrible things she did to me, to tell myself that we don't work because for whatever reason my ex didn't think we do, to know that even if we did get back together it wouldn't work because I don't think I could ever trust a single word that comes out of her mouth. The whole thing is sad. Not sad in a debilitating way.
I guess the positives are noticing and feeling the difference a year has made. The progress I've made.
I don't even feel as mentally/emotionally messed up as I did after seeing her last weekend.
But I also think I'm feeling positivity from the situation because maybe I'm getting/looking for some validation from it all?
I'm trying really hard not to let my thoughts spiral out of control or even start analyzing/thinking about all of this too much.
It feels good and feels sad all at the same time.
Luckily I won't have to see her again until my friends birthday in late January.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 3, 2020 19:36:48 GMT
But I also think I'm feeling positivity from the situation because maybe I'm getting/looking for some validation from it all?
I think you are onto something here and if you can be curious about it...you can use what you uncover to help guide your next steps.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 4, 2020 15:04:31 GMT
I was thinking more about this the other night and how my therapist would have addressed me if I had the same situation. She would have pointed out that it wasn’t necessarily the parents reaction that caused a good feeling (although no doubt that felt good) but the deliberate choice to make conversation and do kind things. Put another way...,the good feeling you are experiencing has probably more to do with your choice to engage versus their reaction. Certainly it would have felt bad had they brushed you off or not received you well....but, I think if the focus is just on their reaction and not on your decision to engage, you will miss how important that is. Deliberate choices is fundamental to shifting from AP to Secure....it means using reason and internal queues instead of only fear of how other will react to guide your steps. But you have to see it and acknowledge it in order for that shift from others reaction being the source of your happiness to your deliberate choices being the source.
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Post by joansfa on Nov 8, 2020 0:08:52 GMT
Oh man, super sorry to hear all that. I couldn't read this without giving you my 2 cents. I'm new to attachment theory so I can't help you much in relation to that but I can give you some relationship advice as to someone who's been in your similar shoes a long time ago. Take this however you want and honestly, this is going to be raw. I will probably sound like a major jerk but I'm giving you some much-needed tough love with a side of exorcism. So all that goes out the window and the guy she slept with behind my back that she just had to go and make her boyfriend is getting the amazing girl I always knew she was. What? A girl that cheats on you is not amazing at all. The next time you see this girl and the new sucker she tricked into a relationship, do yourself a favor and walk up to her and look them both dead in the eyes and thank them. He did you a favor and you dodged a major bullet. Imagine if you married this girl and had kids with her and she pulled this stunt on you then? Half of your assets and money are gone and she'd probably get the kids too(granted you live in America). Wtf does he have or bring to the table that I didn't? Why is she willing to put in the effort to make an international long distance relationship work but wasn't willing to have not even one conversation with me about things that were bothering her? She's obviously found a way to communicate with this guy. Kills me that despite her professing such strong feelings for me, she just ended it out of nowhere, never looked back, dropped me like it was absolutely nothing. Maybe the relationship only works for her because she gets the high of being together 3-4 months at a time, typically traveling around, and then she gets a break of a month or two before getting that high again. Or maybe they're just a match made in freaking heaven. Two free spirits made perfect for each other. Why did she sleep with this guy behind my back in the first place? We were having such positive experiences together literally days leading up to the family trip she went on. She took me on this great planned out date as her christmas gift to me. She told me being with me the last few months was the happiest she'd been in so long, days before leaving "I'm not going to fuck you over, you got me babe, I'm all yours", on the trip she was texting me everyday keeping me updated, wishing me sweet dreams every night. How could she sleep with the hired help on a family vacation? I mean she literally likely texted me right before or right after she freaking did it too. Why!? We were having a great time together, had such a great time together whether that was going out or staying in together, had deep vulnerable talks. You'll never really know what he has that you don't unless she tells you which she never will. Clearly, she viewed him as someone with a higher value than yourself. Maybe he was better looking, had his sh*t together, made more money, etc...or maybe he was less attractive and you're this amazing human being and she didn't feel insecure being with him. But like I said you'll never know and you're better off not worry about it cause she's long gone and clearly has major issues. She needs to focus on a relationship with a therapist more than anything. When we got back together months later, I asked her what happened and she said she was already withdrawing into herself before she left for that trip and she got really drunk and it happened. She never showed any signs of withdrawing at all. We were talking every single day, still seeing each other 2-3 times a week, she was texting me the entire trip. Maybe she said that as a way to justify it? Even if that would still be a terrible justification. Or maybe I was just too into her, too good to her, trying too hard and it actually did turn her off and caused her to lose that attraction for me and withdraw into herself. "drunk?" So I take it shes been drunk this whole time while being in a relationship with that other guy too? A friend once told me "a drunk person's actions are a sober person's thoughts." I laugh at this excuse every time I hear someone say they cheated because they were "drunk." She had this planned. People do this in relationships all the time. She just branch swung to the next best option in her eyes. Do you honestly think this was the only time she ever cheated on you? She's probably done this other times but you just found about this one. She probably liked you as a challenge and you got too comfortable and she got bored and wanted a new challenge. Once again you'll never really know but I wouldn't even dwell on it. She seriously did you a huge favor. Be glad you found out as soon as you did. Thinking back on things from the first time we dated, maybe I was just way over the top and ruined everything. The big dates I planned. These little things I did for her. The things she was saying, the way she would act, I thought she was absolutely crazy about me. I think, I'm doing these things/saying these things, getting a lot of positive responses, keep doing what I'm doing. But maybe I really just fucked it all up. This is debatable but if she wasn't reciprocating the same thing back to you then you made the wrong decision relationship-wise in doing that. You made yourself too needy/clingy. If she didn't think and feel something real with me why the hell did she get back together with me a few months later. There had to be something real there for us to get together twice. Why wasn't it worth fighting for the second time around when we were committed to each other? Was any of it real though? Or was it all just her playing me and having a few months of fun and entertainment? This story just keeps getting more interesting the more I read. So she travels to another country for months at a time throughout the year? When she came back after cheating on you, you guys got back together? Or you guys were together throughout the whole time and she told you she cheated on after some time and being back home? Sounds like you were just convenient cause you were local and she might have co-dependency issues. Read some old texts/a poem she wrote for me....I just needed to get it out instead of letting the thoughts loop in my head.... Do yourself favor and delete any trace of this girl from your life. Block her number, delete/block her social media, and focus on yourself. Throw away anything she ever bought you and erase any existence of this girl from your life. Poems and texts included. Stop brown-nosing her parents...they're partly responsible for helping raise such a horrible human being, so stop putting this girl and her family on a pedestal. Well we never argued the.....next day and that would have. WOW! This girl gave you plenty of red flags and she disrespected you plenty of times. You should've cut this girl out of your life a long time ago. I cannot state this enough....be glad you got out of there when you did. These are great steps you're taking now posting here and going to therapy cause it shows you're working on yourself. I know you're just venting here but I couldn't read this without giving you some raw advice from someone who's been in similar shoes. Have you been dating anybody or been in a relationship with anybody ever since? Sounds like you need to get just out there and start dating and build an abundance mentality. There are plenty of women on this planet for you and trust me...99% of them are way better than her. My Dm's are always open |
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Post by maxymax on Nov 12, 2020 0:06:58 GMT
Oh man, super sorry to hear all that. I couldn't read this without giving you my 2 cents. I'm new to attachment theory so I can't help you much in relation to that but I can give you some relationship advice as to someone who's been in your similar shoes a long time ago. Take this however you want and honestly, this is going to be raw. I will probably sound like a major jerk but I'm giving you some much-needed tough love with a side of exorcism. So all that goes out the window and the guy she slept with behind my back that she just had to go and make her boyfriend is getting the amazing girl I always knew she was. What? A girl that cheats on you is not amazing at all. The next time you see this girl and the new sucker she tricked into a relationship, do yourself a favor and walk up to her and look them both dead in the eyes and thank them. He did you a favor and you dodged a major bullet. Imagine if you married this girl and had kids with her and she pulled this stunt on you then? Half of your assets and money are gone and she'd probably get the kids too(granted you live in America). I guess I'm just sad/messed up that she despite everything she said/did, she didn't feel enough for me to not sleep with this guy behind my back. Also, some people may not consider it cheating since we never explicitly discussed exclusivity. Definitely inconsiderate. I don't think it was right. But again, sad that she didn't feel strongly enough for me to not do this.Wtf does he have or bring to the table that I didn't? Why is she willing to put in the effort to make an international long distance relationship work but wasn't willing to have not even one conversation with me about things that were bothering her? She's obviously found a way to communicate with this guy. Kills me that despite her professing such strong feelings for me, she just ended it out of nowhere, never looked back, dropped me like it was absolutely nothing. Maybe the relationship only works for her because she gets the high of being together 3-4 months at a time, typically traveling around, and then she gets a break of a month or two before getting that high again. Or maybe they're just a match made in freaking heaven. Two free spirits made perfect for each other. Why did she sleep with this guy behind my back in the first place? We were having such positive experiences together literally days leading up to the family trip she went on. She took me on this great planned out date as her christmas gift to me. She told me being with me the last few months was the happiest she'd been in so long, days before leaving "I'm not going to fuck you over, you got me babe, I'm all yours", on the trip she was texting me everyday keeping me updated, wishing me sweet dreams every night. How could she sleep with the hired help on a family vacation? I mean she literally likely texted me right before or right after she freaking did it too. Why!? We were having a great time together, had such a great time together whether that was going out or staying in together, had deep vulnerable talks. You'll never really know what he has that you don't unless she tells you which she never will. Clearly, she viewed him as someone with a higher value than yourself. Maybe he was better looking, had his sh*t together, made more money, etc...or maybe he was less attractive and you're this amazing human being and she didn't feel insecure being with him. But like I said you'll never know and you're better off not worry about it cause she's long gone and clearly has major issues. She needs to focus on a relationship with a therapist more than anything. So many people have said this girl has so many issues. Yet here she is, sustaining a relationship with this person for a full year... Makes me think she never had any issues, she just didn't give it her all until this guy.When we got back together months later, I asked her what happened and she said she was already withdrawing into herself before she left for that trip and she got really drunk and it happened. She never showed any signs of withdrawing at all. We were talking every single day, still seeing each other 2-3 times a week, she was texting me the entire trip. Maybe she said that as a way to justify it? Even if that would still be a terrible justification. Or maybe I was just too into her, too good to her, trying too hard and it actually did turn her off and caused her to lose that attraction for me and withdraw into herself. "drunk?" So I take it shes been drunk this whole time while being in a relationship with that other guy too? A friend once told me "a drunk person's actions are a sober person's thoughts." I laugh at this excuse every time I hear someone say they cheated because they were "drunk." She had this planned. People do this in relationships all the time. She just branch swung to the next best option in her eyes. Do you honestly think this was the only time she ever cheated on you? She's probably done this other times but you just found about this one. She probably liked you as a challenge and you got too comfortable and she got bored and wanted a new challenge. Once again you'll never really know but I wouldn't even dwell on it. She seriously did you a huge favor. Be glad you found out as soon as you did. Thinking back on things from the first time we dated, maybe I was just way over the top and ruined everything. The big dates I planned. These little things I did for her. The things she was saying, the way she would act, I thought she was absolutely crazy about me. I think, I'm doing these things/saying these things, getting a lot of positive responses, keep doing what I'm doing. But maybe I really just fucked it all up. This is debatable but if she wasn't reciprocating the same thing back to you then you made the wrong decision relationship-wise in doing that. You made yourself too needy/clingy. If she didn't think and feel something real with me why the hell did she get back together with me a few months later. There had to be something real there for us to get together twice. Why wasn't it worth fighting for the second time around when we were committed to each other? Was any of it real though? Or was it all just her playing me and having a few months of fun and entertainment? This story just keeps getting more interesting the more I read. So she travels to another country for months at a time throughout the year? When she came back after cheating on you, you guys got back together? Or you guys were together throughout the whole time and she told you she cheated on after some time and being back home? Sounds like you were just convenient cause you were local and she might have co-dependency issues. No, maybe the way I typed it out is confusing. We were dating for a few months, she went on a 10 day family vacation during this time, where she slept with this guy, came back from the trip, spent a few days with me, then dumped me. Over the next 6 months we saw each other and slept together a few times. As I think I mentioned, she's connected to my group of friends so the times we saw each other couldn't really be helped. Then after 6 months of being broken up, we got back together.Read some old texts/a poem she wrote for me....I just needed to get it out instead of letting the thoughts loop in my head.... Do yourself favor and delete any trace of this girl from your life. Block her number, delete/block her social media, and focus on yourself. Throw away anything she ever bought you and erase any existence of this girl from your life. Poems and texts included. Stop brown-nosing her parents...they're partly responsible for helping raise such a horrible human being, so stop putting this girl and her family on a pedestal. I had to make nice with her and her family, my best friend is marrying her sister.Well we never argued the.....next day and that would have. WOW! This girl gave you plenty of red flags and she disrespected you plenty of times. You should've cut this girl out of your life a long time ago. I cannot state this enough....be glad you got out of there when you did. These are great steps you're taking now posting here and going to therapy cause it shows you're working on yourself. I know you're just venting here but I couldn't read this without giving you some raw advice from someone who's been in similar shoes. Have you been dating anybody or been in a relationship with anybody ever since? Sounds like you need to get just out there and start dating and build an abundance mentality. There are plenty of women on this planet for you and trust me...99% of them are way better than her. My Dm's are always open I haven't really dated anybody since her besides some casual situations. I don't think I could trust somebody and my judgement of the situation again. I don't want to hurt like that/this ever again. It has been a horrible 2 years. Divorce rates are over 50% and who knows how many couples that remain married are absolutely miserable. I'm not sure if marriage is made for modern times. |
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This was the way forward that finally stopped me from repeating. So be kind to yourself 
